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YukiKikasare

Why Does Fashion Industry in SL Use "No Transfer" Instead of "No Copy" ?

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Many people prefer copy yes, transfer no, because they like to put an outfit into more than one folder. Or they want to keep an original copy in case modifying part of it turns out badly. Also, sometimes the servers burp, and part of it disappears. 

By the time I get tired of an outfit most other people don't want it either. I tried selling some old things in a garage sale and did not have one taker.

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That is an old topic coming up again from time to time.

We had this "in RL i can sell old things why not here" but never forget that clothes won´t 'age' in SL and they usually only cost a few pence.

Anything said so i only put one thing into:

I want to see a new more complex permission system for SL. And please fix this bug where you loose mod rights on stuff you build yourself !

copy/mod/no transfer Monti :smileywink:

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Well, our shop sells a lot of gifts (transfer). You dont know how often it happens that people IM you, who "Did not recive their Stuff from Marketplace". Do yo believe them? Maybe they just want a copy for their alt or friend?

Also, Reseling, and re-reselling of your gear kind of saturates the market.. so, if 300 People just ring-change your dress, no one buys it anymore.

Also , i rather buy a no-trans than a no-copy, especially if it has 1-use resizer scripts. 

I remember a person we wanted a new replacement, cause she got a trans Item without a resizer script, she get from someone else, who "has it collect dust in their inventory"... ah... 

 

So, dear OP, selling a clothing Items as trans brings you, as seller, who tries to live from it nothing.

If you done need an item, put it in a box, but the box in another you call "Storage Prim".. so it takes away no Space in your inventory.

 

 

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I do not trans for 2 reason,

1 noobs try to mod prims and mess it up and many like to make a copy of the object first.

2  you get flooded with people who buy things at yard sales and market place 2nd hand, right after the first owner mod it wrong and it is all messed up ot they do not include all parts and you end up with IMs wanting parts the first owner kept for free.


If people ask me I offer clothing that is transfer but it is on request only.

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there is much information and debate on the validity of permissions so far within this thread, and i thank everyone who has responded, and greatly appreciate you all taking the time to share. but some point have been brought up, and i have a few things to add now.

yes, i do understand the need and benefits of copy/no copy versus transfer/no transfer. most of the items i do buy have modifiable permission attached, and i have never had any issues with this one permission type.

i do agree that a more complex and defined permission system is needed now with items, especially with the new wave of design creeping in, as LL does need to adapt and update to match these new trends.

many places i frequent show the ads for the clothing, with "fatpacks" or style / color variations of an item, but it is not often now that i see the permissions actually listed on the advertizing boards and displays. of course, we all "impulse" shop when we see something we really love and our "inherent" need to HAVE TO HAVE IT lol. so we miss these things sometimes and forget to check, or only notice once bought.

then what ? we can't contact the creators and ask for different permissions since we cannot return or exchange if it non-transferable. that would be dishonest to ask for a new copy with different permissions simply because of a lack of paying attention.

it would be nice though, whoever, to have displays in stores with, say, modify/copy permissions, and a second set with modify/transfer permissions. i would hate to contact every single creator so request a specific item with varied permissions. once we open those doors, these creators would be flooded with IM's constantly and consistently, and would be unfair to them. they are busy enough as it is bringing us quality items and maintaining the stores and merchandises, i would not feel comfortable imposing on them in such a way every time i found something i liked and wanted with those permissions.

it would be so much simpler to have resizing scripts inside prim items if the item is no copy, with a "restore" function that would reset back to factory settings. some items do have this, and would prevent "accidental" modifications, or assist in remodifying an item if wearing a different shape.

i would never resell a used item. i would simply love to give it away to someone new to SL who would benefit from a gifted item, which would otherwise collect dust in my inventory or be deleted.

there is nothing wrong with this, is there ?

how or what can we do to perhaps change inherent permissions or advertizing varied permissions on items ? is there something that can be done now, other than harrasing store owners and creators with IM's ?

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resizing...does NOT make things "fit" it only makes them bigger or littler...I want to mod so the fit is perfect, no gaps, seams all line up exactly on my avatar. It is impossible for a creator to make this happen for us with avies of all shapes and sizes.  for me the resize scripts are the same as no mod - I need to be able to edit prim by prim

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i do understand this, but my suggestion was to have a restore feature within a resizing script, and not a simple resizing only script. the restore would be useful if a mistake was made (which does happen) and we needed to start over when modifying an item.

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It's been mentioned before. I prefer my items to be copy, as opposed to transfer, so I can create multiple outfits or have an "undamaged" copy of an item in case I mess one up trying to edit. Especially with prim attachments, modifyable is a must for me. If it's mod, it should be copy for editing purposes, as others have mentioned - thus, no room for transfer, since then you could just give out free copies to everyone. Transfer isn't a big deal for me. I have some outfits that are transfer, particularly from one creator. I like them quite a bit, but I do wish I could copy the items into different outfit folders, since there are many ways to wear the items - instead of being able to transfer them.

I will admit, though, I have some items cluttering up my inventory that I don't want to delete, because I paid for them, but don't use or wear. It would be nice if I could give them away, but I'll take the "copy" ability instead.

What I won't buy are no-perm items, where I can't mod, copy, OR transfer. That's just silly, to me.

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YukiKikasare wrote:

is there something that can be done now, other than harrasing store owners and creators with IM's ?

What's wrong with that?

I don't understand the reference " they are busy enough as it is bringing us quality items and maintaining the stores and merchandises" Creators (god bless them, i'm not worthy) should also be listening to customers and taking on board what those customers want. This feels all too often forgotten.

Don't put "creators" on a pedestal, as a consumer handing over your money, don't be shy to communicate what you want in return. Creators with the attitude of "if I make it, they'll just have to accept what I offer" will just have to accept what consumers are prepared to spend their money on, totally fair in return.

Creator argument for NO MOD: "I don't want my creation to look bad when someone edits it"

Consumer argument for MOD: "once i've paid for it, it's no longer your item, "your" item looks crap on me, it doesn't fit me and it looks like you make poor fitting items".

Take whichever stance you wish, let the consumer decide. People can make whatever they like with whatever permissions they like, if they don't listen to what consumers want, so be it.

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Clothes and other wearables need to be modifiable, and modifiable items need to be copyable in order to allow for backup copies. There is no way around that, and no valid excuse whatsoever for selling no-copy wearables without modify permission. I don't buy anything that I cannot copy and modify, and the vast majority of my customers feel the same way about wearable items.

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The problem with 'letting the customer decide', is that SL doesn't have enough competition between a variety of different creators. If you need one particular thing, it's not unlikely at all that you can only find one thing like that in all of SL. That doesn't leave the consumers with much power...

Not saying there is much else you can do about it, other than trying to choose when you can, and to remind creators that no one else likes it. Like, if they care about the people who buy their clothes, they should listen to them and whatever suggestions and criticism they may offer. Not everyone may even realize just how much no-mod permissions suck, so we might as well keep repeating this again and again, and hope some people out there will listen.

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Nyx Karas wrote:

The problem with 'letting the customer decide', is that SL doesn't have enough competition between a variety of different creators. If you need one particular thing, it's not unlikely at all that you can only find one thing like that in all of SL. That doesn't leave the consumers with much power...

Practice just walking away.  After a while it becomes quite easy  :)

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Nyx Karas wrote:

The problem with 'letting the customer decide', is that SL doesn't have enough competition between a variety of different creators.

 

Wow, it seems to me that there is plenty of competition in retail SL. 

You could ask ten different designers why they perm their items the way that they do and they probably all have different answers. I try to only buy copy/mod items, with rare exceptions from certain designers, and if I can't tell what the perms are before I buy it, I walk away.

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Seriously? I'm often glad if I can find just one creator selling what I need of preferrably decent quality. There are things I've searched for practically since I joined SL and still never seen anywhere.

No matter, I stand by what I said. It absolutely sucks of creators to make no-mod of things that can or should be editted or customized.

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Nyx Karas wrote:

Seriously? I'm often glad if I can find just one creator selling what I need of preferrably decent quality. There are things I've searched for practically since I joined SL and still never seen anywhere.

I agree with this. If your style is mainstream/casual/RLcopy then there's lot of choices. But if you want more alternative styles, then the choices are very limited. :(

 

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Everything I sell is mod/copy/no-transfer.  It's a no-brainer.........

  • Buyers need to be able to adjust clothing to fit their own shapes (not just resize -- there are plenty of women running around SL with clothes that are the right size but don't fit well, but that's another story.  :smileytongue:). 
  • It's dangerous to give anyone mod perms if you don't also give copy perms, because accidents happen.  Buyers need to have a way to make a backup copy. 
  • If buyers have copy perms and I give transfer perms as well, they'll give copies away (or sell them) and my sales will drop through the floor.  I want to sell the same dress to all my buyer's friends, not have them get it as a freebie.

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The clothing in my stores originally was all Trans as was the majority of the market when i arrived in 2006.  This has changed dramatically in perhaps the past 2 to 3 years.  We used to be able to pass along our old clothes to newbs or sell them in yard sales (which happened quite alot and was fabulous)  It did in no way effect the market, however there were many many less designers then.  As it stands (and i have been reconsidering this in the past 2 weeks) my gorean 8 layer veils are NO TRANs as it is a captured market and i could see that the value of said veils would drop if people were just sending them from av to av.  It took me DAYS to make them and lots of money on scripts... so i need to sell a whole slough just to make a penny... The same is true of my maternity line (no trans), however those are very low priced items.  My Bridal and formal line as of yet is NoCopy Yes Trans... and has not really been an issue.. but with the standard changing I may change my thought.  I can see the value to the designer.. you sell your clothes and the next person has to buy it rather than it being passed along.. therefore you sell more.. however.... it sucks for those of us who like to donate to newbs.. sigh.  It pains me to delete old clothes from inventory.

 

BTW.. if you want TRANS Bridal and formal wear check my profile for my landmark.

 

xoxo

Grace Winnfield

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Yuki, this is a new problem.. and simply put .. if it is trans you replace it with a no trans item.. which is what i have done.. but you dont let it happen if you think it is a conspiracy.

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At the store I work at, most items are copy/mod, but the lingerie is transfer. A lot of guys like to but lingerie for their significant others, so that permission is a great convenience.

 

In general, if clothing is not copy yet it has prims I would never buy it. If I can't mod the length of pants because I want to wear them with boots or with heels, I would hesitate to buy it.

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I like seeing the ingenuity that's arisen in gifting: from the Marketplace's buy as gift option to inworld gift kiosks. I also see places that offer alternate permissions, so you can either buy a "no transfer" or "no copy" version. Understandably, I've heard from creators that they wish there were ways to automate this, especially if they're extremely prolific — setting so many checkboxes is a p-a-i-n. Still, there are times you may want to give a gift directly, or modify it in some personal way.

I tend to prefer "no transfer" due to the above possibilities, and also because I can be such a clumsy clodhopper in my inventory, modifying an original when I should've made a backup (another thing that should be automated better). I miss when we could save copies of items as a NEW outfit instead of just links to them.

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Thanks for all the discussion on this link - it's been helpful to think through the permissions I set on my goods. Unfortunately it now means I'm going through and changing *a lot!* of those annoying little check boxes! I'm now choosing to put mostly mod/copy items in the marketplace, but pointing them to the mod/trans options that I'm offering in world (I think people still like to gift-give "in person"). Already I can see a noticeable (and positive) change in my sales. But by far the most popular option certainly seems to be for mod/copy permissions.

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In early SL things were often transferable because there was not much that required fitting...almost all clothing was a layer.  But as prim items became more popular and particularly with the addition of sculpts there is no way for a creator to make an item that will fit every avatar...or even most avatars.  This has resulted in the need for all residents to learn some basic editing and for creators to offer goods copy/mod.

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