Social anxiety...

[Rowan Amore]

58 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I'm an introvert and not looking to add more friends to my friends list, but I do like to tell random people when I think their avatar or pet looks nice. I think complimenting someone is a good way to start a conversation, whether it's their look or their profile. I'll IM someone in a store to tell them if a lucky chair has their name letter on it. I've messaged people to tell them their Linden Home looked good too. Last night I IMed 2 ladies to ask if they wanted gift cards I didn't want. One was AFK and didn't respond. The other continued the conversation and asked if I wanted to be friends.

This is the tricky part for me. I don't want to come across as rude, but I don't really need or want more friends, so most of the time I accept their friend request or send them one myself at this point. If the person has a male avatar and I've met them at an Adult sim, I assume they're looking for a potential virtual sex partner, so I generally try to unfriend them when they're not online. I accidentally unfriended a couple guys when they were online and then got back a surprised IM asking why I unfriended them. 

If the person has a female avatar, they're less likely to be interested in a virtual hook-up, so I just let them stay on my friends list. Most are male though. If they or their partner are a DJ, I'll likely start getting spammed for their events, at which time I'll unfriend them as well.

Just for future reference, you can unfriend while you are offline on the website.  

[Kalegthepsionicist]

On 6/20/2022 at 12:03 PM, SatanTM said:

I have been on SL for about three years now consistently, but I haven't been on much lately. I'm trying to get back into it but I'm horrible at making conversation. I don't even know where to start. Most cases people just don't reply to me. Anyone else having this issue?

tbh, if you have social anxiety you should AVOID secondlife. it will make you getting more worse.

 go outside to real world. and join activity, . maybe sport, or charity community or bingo or whatever

Edited June 24, 2022 by Kalegthepsionicist

[Persephone Emerald]

22 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

Only in 2022, is it such a chore and such a contested social action (as portrayed by online sources) about saying "Hi".

What it means is how it was meant for centuries. It's a greeting, and you're supposed to say "Hi" back. It's called courtesy.

"Hi" is not a threat.  "Hi" is not unwanted attention. "Hi" isn't meant to scare you away in a Premium sandbox. "Hi" doesn't mean someone is hitting on you. "Hi" doesn't mean someone has sexual interest in you.

I wouldn't say I suffer from social anxiety - but I am developing social anxiety only reading how others react to the most simplest of things - in RL a 'hi' can be met with a complete ignore, or 'taken aback' (how strange, do I look like a goblin, lol), or a pensive "hii? (Why are you speaking to me)" type reaction (strange), or any other number of strange encounters with reactions far out of the norm for what I would expect.

If I said "hello" to you, or complimented you on a product or build or something else you were working on, it would have no sexual intent at all. I'm sure others would agree that if saying 'hello' has become offensive, or giving someone a compliment, or even asking a question or engaging in any way is a 'threat', it can severely damage social interaction in SL.

I still say "hello" if I want or give compliments if I want, I'm not going to change - I'm just reporting the negative responses I get that are not warranted, and it is not me who needs to change but some people's response to an time-honored courtesy.

You seem to be responding here to something you imagined I said rather than to what I actually said.

I always say hello back when someone says hello to me inworld. If someone compliments me, I thank them. I engage in polite and friendly conversations. Sometimes I accept friend requests or even offer them myself. 

All I said was that if I accept a friend request from a male avatar I may later unfriend them without giving them an explanation.  Sometimes I will also turn down friend requests, saying something like, "Do we have anything in common?...I'm sorry, but I already have more friends on my friends list than I can handle." Other times I may accept or send a friend request from a newbie and say, "Feel free to IM me if you need help with anything."

People in SL do not owe each other friendship, entertainment or conversation.

My time and real friendship has to be earned with respect and consideration for my time and feelings.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Persephone Emerald
spelling correction: imagined

[junique Tigerfish]

On 6/21/2022 at 7:42 PM, SatanTM said:

That will definitely ensure my responses.

 

Just don't be surprised when everyone asks for gifts.😁

[junique Tigerfish]

2 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I'm an introvert and not looking to add more friends to my friends list, but I do like to tell random people when I think their avatar or pet looks nice. I think complimenting someone is a good way to start a conversation, whether it's their look or their profile. I'll IM someone in a store to tell them if a lucky chair has their name letter on it. I've messaged people to tell them their Linden Home looked good too. Last night I IMed 2 ladies to ask if they wanted gift cards I didn't want. One was AFK and didn't respond. The other continued the conversation and asked if I wanted to be friends.

This is the tricky part for me. I don't want to come across as rude, but I don't really need or want more friends, so most of the time I accept their friend request or send them one myself at this point. If the person has a male avatar and I've met them at an Adult sim, I assume they're looking for a potential virtual sex partner, so I generally try to unfriend them when they're not online. I accidentally unfriended a couple guys when they were online and then got back a surprised IM asking why I unfriended them. 

If the person has a female avatar, they're less likely to be interested in a virtual hook-up, so I just let them stay on my friends list. Most are male though. If they or their partner are a DJ, I'll likely start getting spammed for their events, at which time I'll unfriend them as well.

Persephone I always enjoy reading your posts.Always make me think or see things in a different way.Or sometimes make me smile.Really cool lady.We all have our reasons for sl and we owe no apologies.Wonderful day to you.🙂

[Codex Alpha]

38 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

You seem to be responding here to something you imaged I said rather than to what I actually said.

I always say hello back when someone says hello to me inworld. If someone compliments me, I thank them. I engage in polite and friendly conversations. Sometimes I accept friend requests or even offer them myself. 

All I said was that if I accept a friend request from a male avatar I may later unfriend them without giving them an explanation.  Sometimes I will also turn down friend requests, saying something like, "Do we have anything in common?...I'm sorry, but I already have more friends on my friends list than I can handle." Other times I may accept or send a friend request from a newbie and say, "Feel free to IM me if you need help with anything."

People in SL do not owe each other friendship, entertainment or conversation.

My time and real friendship has to be earned with respect and consideration for my time and feelings.

This is a case of adding on to what you said, and the use of 'you'  should be considered 'one'. My experience remains valid.

[Rowan Amore]

A simple "Hi" in my experience since 2009, followed by my " Hello" back usually ends in a less than engaging conversation.  My Hello is normally followed by several minutes of silence from the person.  I guess they are expecting ME to move the conversation along when in fact, it's their responsibility to do so.  THEY messaged me.  Have something to say.  A comment, an observation, something!  

Do you honestly walk up to someone in RL, say Hi and then just stand there after they say hello back?   How does that go?  Why did you say Hi?  

[junique Tigerfish]

22 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

A simple "Hi" in my experience since 2009, followed by my " Hello" back usually ends in a less than engaging conversation.  My Hello is normally followed by several minutes of silence from the person.  I guess they are expecting ME to move the conversation along when in fact, it's their responsibility to do so.  THEY messaged me.  Have something to say.  A comment, an observation, something!  

Do you honestly walk up to someone in RL, say Hi and then just stand there after they say hello back?   How does that go?  Why did you say Hi?  

Very well said Rowan.Omg you are so right,I have had that happen to me.Lol,just don't get it.Talk to myself,might as well be in the comfort of my house listening to tunes.Even a comment about weather,what you enjoy in sl,or even how you have lost your fingers at the moment.If you are shy or anxious,planning your conversation to a certain extent might help ease your emotions.How else will we get to know each other.

[Codex Alpha]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

A simple "Hi" in my experience since 2009, followed by my " Hello" back usually ends in a less than engaging conversation.  My Hello is normally followed by several minutes of silence from the person.  I guess they are expecting ME to move the conversation along when in fact, it's their responsibility to do so.  THEY messaged me.  Have something to say.  A comment, an observation, something!  

Do you honestly walk up to someone in RL, say Hi and then just stand there after they say hello back?   How does that go?  Why did you say Hi?  

Or maybe they were saying "Hello". And that's it. You answer "hello" and be done. If they stand there and not say anything, so what. They probably went afk or went back to reading.

I'm not sure why I even have to explain this SIMPLE and universal interaction by Millions everywhere, even if they're passing each other while walking on the sidewalk.

I saw someone in the area, maybe working on something, I say "Hi", they say "Hi" back (if you're lucky) and it either continues or it doesn't.

Damn this is so weird around here... I need another project to be excited about cuz this is all ....

[Rowan Amore]

3 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

"Hi" is not a threat.  "Hi" is not unwanted attention. "Hi" isn't meant to scare you away in a Premium sandbox. "Hi" doesn't mean someone is hitting on you. "Hi" doesn't mean someone has sexual interest in you.

I was referring to this statement.  I didn't say it was any of the things you mentioned.  It just NOT the way to start an interaction if one does have social anxiety as you probably won't get very far.  Hi is a usually a start of a conversation in SL.  "Hi, I was reading your profile and I can really relate to..."  "Hi, I was wondering if you could tell me..."  "Hi, I love how well you've put together your avatar."   Then, it goes from there.

"Hi"

"Hello"

...

 

So, you go ahead and just say Hi all you want.  No one in saying you can't.  Don't expect anything more than a Hi back, though.

Skip the Manspaining.  Opening an IM to engage with someone is totally different than tossing a Hi on the sidewalk in RL.  

23 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

 

I'm not sure why I even have to explain this SIMPLE and universal interaction by Millions everywhere, even if they're passing each other while walking on the sidewalk..

 

[Persephone Emerald]

36 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

I'm not sure why I even have to explain this SIMPLE and universal interaction by Millions everywhere, even if they're passing each other while walking on the sidewalk.

You don't have to explain anything here. You chose to comment. You choose to explain your point of view. You have done this now. We read it. If you feel compelled to keep commenting, that's entirely your choice. 

 

[Akane Nacht]

2 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

People in SL do not owe each other friendship, entertainment or conversation.

This is important to keep in mind. Friendship in SL is a lot more nuanced than adding a friend in your typical MMORPG. The longer I'm in SL the fewer new friends I add.

Also, in my experience, the simple "Hi/Hello" message in 99% of cases goes like this: Hi - How are you doing? - Your avatar is lovely - Do you want to <insert fetish here>.

Hence, I feel a weariness as soon as I hear the random "Hi" 😬

[Phil Deakins]

Saying 'hi'/'hello' in SL is the same as in RL. In RL I'll walk along the pavement and often say 'hi' (and smile) to people I pass coming the other way, and that's it. Nobody stops and nobody is looking for a conversation. It's the same in SL. Also in RL, if I find myself stationery and in proximity to someone and either of us say 'hi' or 'hello' it usually means that a conversation would be welcomed. It's just the same in SL. If I walk up to someone, stop, and say 'hi', then a conversation is definitely wanted. Same in SL.

It generally depends on the situation (RL and SL):-
'hi' and walk on - merely a pleasant greeting
'hi' and stand there - a pleasant greeting with a hoped for conversation
walk up to someone and say 'hi' - a pleasant greeting with a definite desire for a conversation

In all cases, it's a pleasant greeting, as Codex says, but the circumstances make a difference.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Phil Deakins

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Saying 'hi'/'hello' in SL is the same as in RL. In RL I'll walk along the pavement and often say 'hi' (and smile) to people I pass coming the other way, and that's it. Nobody stops and nobody is looking for a conversation. It's the same in SL. Also in RL, if I find myself stationery and in proximity to someone and either of us say 'hi' or 'hello' it usually means that a conversation would be welcomed. It's just the same in SL. If I walk up to someone, stop, and say 'hi', then a conversation is definitely wanted. Same in SL.

It generally depends on the situation (RL and SL):-
'hi' and walk on - merely a pleasant greeting
'hi' and stand there - a pleasant greeting with a hoped for conversation
walk up to someone and say 'hi' - a pleasant greeting with a definite desire for a conversation

In all cases, it's a pleasant greeting, as Codex says, but the circumstances make a difference.

 

 

Saying hi and smiling? Just don't make eye contact. What will people think?!

[Love Zhaoying]

In RL, if I am returning to my car from shopping, or out walking my dogs, I can predict within 50-70% accuracy that people saying "hi" are next going to ask for money, or a cigarette (I don't smoke). 

I am not all that cynical. It's just in RL, people don't walk up to your car, or approach you when walking dogs, unless they want something. 
 

SL is similar, but not as bad.

[Love Zhaoying]

8 hours ago, Kalegthepsionicist said:

tbh, if you have social anxiety you should AVOID secondlife. it will make you getting more worse.

 go outside to real world. and join activity, . maybe sport, or charity community or bingo or whatever

Isn't this like saying to a kid, "get off the computer, go outside and play"?

Why in the world would "real life" social interactions have less social anxiety than  Second Life? Is this one of those "desensitization" techniques?

[cunomar]

On 6/20/2022 at 5:03 AM, SatanTM said:

I have been on SL for about three years now consistently, but I haven't been on much lately. I'm trying to get back into it but I'm horrible at making conversation. I don't even know where to start. Most cases people just don't reply to me. Anyone else having this issue?

When i was a chatterbox just trying to keep everyone entertained in open chat all the time i was always aware nobody cares , truth or not nobody believes and it doesn't matter because in varying context everyone in SL is bored shy and alone and so most will respond to any input at all .

The killer hurdle is "hello" because mostly that's all your offered so it basically translates "I am bored and i demand you entertain me with some witty conversation because i don't have any to offer"

So yeah talk to yourself and very quickly you will find yourself at the centre of opposing views and opinion because everyone has something to say regardless of the subject .

Talking invites enemies though , say the sky is blue and you will profoundly offend somebody's sensibilities , you will never explain to a ..... erm ....can't call them millennials any more .....  hmmmm - modern person maybe ? that conversation is about sharing and discussing often conflicting personal opinion .

These people are right and good and they crusade viciously ,  tirelessly to silence all opinion but their own . I suppose you call them far left and to them anyone who likes a sandwich now and then is far right .

Conversation starter "I love animals" ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

"Grilled or fried they all good"

Edited June 24, 2022 by cunomar

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Saying 'hi'/'hello' in SL is the same as in RL. In RL I'll walk along the pavement and often say 'hi' (and smile) to people I pass coming the other way, and that's it. Nobody stops and nobody is looking for a conversation. It's the same in SL. Also in RL, if I find myself stationery and in proximity to someone and either of us say 'hi' or 'hello' it usually means that a conversation would be welcomed. It's just the same in SL. If I walk up to someone, stop, and say 'hi', then a conversation is definitely wanted. Same in SL.

It generally depends on the situation (RL and SL):-
'hi' and walk on - merely a pleasant greeting
'hi' and stand there - a pleasant greeting with a hoped for conversation
walk up to someone and say 'hi' - a pleasant greeting with a definite desire for a conversation

In all cases, it's a pleasant greeting, as Codex says, but the circumstances make a difference.

Your casual "hi" SL example works if people are merely saying hi to your avatar in passing or approaching physically.

Quite a few of the "hi" messages I've gotten originated from outside the region I was currently in. I assume they were digging through groups or something as I'm usually home or out in a random empty shop when I get them.

Doesn't bother me and I'll still chat with them, but that's not quite the same as passing an avatar at an event and saying "heya" while walking past them and has no real life equivalent (well, picking random numbers out of a phone book maybe?).

[Rowan Amore]

4 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Saying 'hi'/'hello' in SL is the same as in RL. In RL I'll walk along the pavement and often say 'hi' (and smile) to people I pass coming the other way, and that's it. Nobody stops and nobody is looking for a conversation. It's the same in SL. Also in RL, if I find myself stationery and in proximity to someone and either of us say 'hi' or 'hello' it usually means that a conversation would be welcomed. It's just the same in SL. If I walk up to someone, stop, and say 'hi', then a conversation is definitely wanted. Same in SL.

It generally depends on the situation (RL and SL):-
'hi' and walk on - merely a pleasant greeting
'hi' and stand there - a pleasant greeting with a hoped for conversation
walk up to someone and say 'hi' - a pleasant greeting with a definite desire for a conversation

In all cases, it's a pleasant greeting, as Codex says, but the circumstances make a difference.

 

 

I have no problem with someone saying hello/hi.  At all.   If someone in RL were to walk up to me, smile and say hi and I responded with hello back yet they just stood there and said nothing, I'd walk away or depending on the vibe I was getting, run like hell.  Don't IM me then expect ME to come up with the conversation subject.  Often times, my hello back is followed several minutes later by, "Oh, I guess you're busy".   WTF?  YOU messaged ME.  SAY SOMETHING.

From the first page of my profile...

 I'm IM friendly. However, please don't IM me with /me smiles. This shifts the responsibility of the conversation onto me whereas it should remain with you. Also, a 'hello' is fine but don't expect me to respond with more than the same. Have we all lost the art of conversing

 

[Love Zhaoying]

If appropriate (not random strangers in public), I like to lead with, "Hey there, how are you today?" - gives the other person something to say. People generally love talking about themselves.

[Codex Alpha]

2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

I have no problem with someone saying hello/hi.  At all.   If someone in RL were to walk up to me, smile and say hi and I responded with hello back yet they just stood there and said nothing, I'd walk away or depending on the vibe I was getting, run like hell.  Don't IM me then expect ME to come up with the conversation subject.  Often times, my hello back is followed several minutes later by, "Oh, I guess you're busy".   WTF?  YOU messaged ME.  SAY SOMETHING.

From the first page of my profile...

 I'm IM friendly. However, please don't IM me with /me smiles. This shifts the responsibility of the conversation onto me whereas it should remain with you. Also, a 'hello' is fine but don't expect me to respond with more than the same. Have we all lost the art of conversing

 

You'll be alright, and it's going to happen more. (or not after people read the numerous topics about this on the forums)

10 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

If appropriate (not random strangers in public), I like to lead with, "Hey there, how are you today?" - gives the other person something to say. People generally love talking about themselves.

Your greeting is nothing special. It's normal society to ask "Hi, how are you" and they respond "Fine, how are you" and you respond "Good/Great/Fine".

You're not manipulating them to 'talking about themselves' by participating in normal, average and widespread basic communication.

What is actually out of the norm are many posts on this forum that try to make it like someone saying "Hi" is some unwanted action - and believe me it will be THEIR issue only, not the mass of the human civilization.

If anything this behaviour is indicative of social anxiety.

 

-----

Sending a message that a "hi" in Second life is unwanted, or a harassment or an 'attack' or any other statement that assumes or portrays ill-intent of others  can actually create social anxiety in others.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Codex Alpha

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Codex Alpha said:

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

If appropriate (not random strangers in public), I like to lead with, "Hey there, how are you today?" - gives the other person something to say. People generally love talking about themselves.

Your greeting is nothing special. It's normal society to ask "Hi, how are you" and they respond "Fine, how are you" and you respond "Good/Great/Fine".

You're not manipulating them to 'talking about themselves' by participating in normal, average and widespread basic communication.

What is actually out of the norm are many posts on this forum that try to make it like someone saying "Hi" is some unwanted action - and believe me it will be THEIR issue only, not the mass of the human civilization.

Well gosh, thanks for your feedback!

[Silent Mistwalker]

3 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

(well, picking random numbers out of a phone book maybe?).

 

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

What is actually out of the norm are many posts on this forum that try to make it like someone saying "Hi" is some unwanted action - and believe me it will be THEIR issue only, not the mass of the human civilization.

If anything this behaviour is indicative of social anxiety.

But it is an unwanted action for some people and in some contexts, and I will not label them as automatically wrong and you as automatically right in your responses or expectations.

Your idea regarding how people move toward more intimacy in social interactions, beginning at the very basic level (saying 'hi'), leaves out how other people might feel about what is or is not acceptable for themselves, as well as the contextual differences that warrant varying responses. You've set your feelings about it up as a kind of default, and backed it up by some rule you see as set in stone (common courtesy). But again, your ideal doesn't allow room for the differences in context and preferences so important in how people approach each other socially (for example, one might feel fine about saying 'hi' at a party while not wanting to do so in public). It's like your head is in the clouds, musing on some ideal, and you expect everyone to conform to your reality.

I'll give you an example from another poster on this forum, where they were shocked reading the local newspaper which described a couple of women who felt a man approaching them in a grocery store asking them to go somewhere for coffee was creepy. This poster couldn't understand why this would not be seen as a friendly gesture.
A couple other posters explained they didn't go to the grocery store in order to find a date, and felt the grocery store overture was invasive and plain weird.

Both you, Codex, and this other poster don't seem to understand that others might have differing social norms from your own, and might feel like you are invading them or doing something socially inappropriate in the way you approach others and expect responses they don't feel comfortable giving.
Perhaps both of you don't understand because you're not a woman who often needs more restricted social norms to feel safe in RL, or you have not experienced what the 'hi' in SL often means? (someone looking for sex). Do you not believe what women on this forum tell you?

Empathy is in order here, listening and understanding experiences which differ from your own. If you can't develop this you will always find yourself at odds with people because you're not considering their valid experience but instead superimposing your preferred reality onto theirs.
You constantly complain, all over the forum for months, that people are too sensitive and are being offended unnecessarily, but it is you who needs to change by developing more empathy toward others.

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Sending a message that a "hi" in Second life is unwanted, or a harassment or an 'attack' or any other statement that assumes or portrays ill-intent of others  can actually create social anxiety in others.

No one has said that.  All I ask is you have something more to say IF you are expecting a conversation.  Otherwise, all I give back is the same as I get.  

It's amazing that in 2022, I need to explain how a conversation works.