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appearance sliders: are the default values neutral?


Quarrel Kukulcan
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I've found a set of appearance slider positions that I believe are the default settings (head size 50, head stretch 33, egg head 57, etc.) Should these settings result in no extra scaling or translation of armature bones?

The reason I ask is that I've got a dev kit intended for Avastar that I can get to export without Fitted Mesh distortion, but the shapes don't line up in some parts of the body. My head and chest come out too small and the belly is too round, but the hips and hands are fine. My first thought was that the dev kid was modeled with a specific custom body shape slider set, but examining the armature's custom properties, it looks neutral.

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The default shape is not neutral, and that is the limitation of the slider system. Being Blender unable to use bind poses, the currently implemented shape translation from joint scales on the skeleton makes it impossible to determine what is the real neutral, which assumes all scales for the m joints to be 1,1,1.

If you don't mind doing some math, the mapping data is available in the avatar_lad.xml file, if I remember correctly. From that data, you can retrieve what slider value corresponds to scale 1,1,1 on the m joints, and subsequently get the right c joints positions and scales right for a really neutral shape.

On a side note, Avastar provides a toggle between default and neutral shape, but for what I remember, the sliders value do not update to reflect that and let you know what number to apply on each slider

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2 hours ago, OptimoMaximo said:

If you don't mind doing some math, the mapping data is available in the avatar_lad.xml file, if I remember correctly. From that data, you can retrieve what slider value corresponds to scale 1,1,1 on the m joints, and subsequently get the right c joints positions and scales right for a really neutral shape.

I browsed through that once. Time to look again. It got...messy.

Are you saying I need to reposition the c bones to the offsets they'd have if their parent m bones were transformed?

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On 6/16/2022 at 10:24 PM, Quarrel Kukulcan said:

I browsed through that once. Time to look again. It got...messy.

Are you saying I need to reposition the c bones to the offsets they'd have if their parent m bones were transformed?

Yep. Not only the parent joint scale and the collision joint scales accordingly to the parameters defined by the slider, but they also move into different positions, and there are different starting / end positions between male and female avatar to begin with 

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1 hour ago, OptimoMaximo said:

Yep. Not only the parent joint scale and the collision joint scales accordingly to the parameters defined by the slider, but they also move into different positions, and there are different starting / end positions between male and female avatar to begin with 

Am I the only one to think there must be a better way to do this? :P

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5 hours ago, ChinRey said:

Am I the only one to think there must be a better way to do this? :P

There are better ways to accomplish this type of character features, but what is described above is the current working system, and no other way is supported.

If you're referring to how Avastar handles things to get the compatibility with how Maya works in this regard, well, then you should go complaining to the Blender foundation 😉

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12 hours ago, OptimoMaximo said:
On 6/16/2022 at 2:24 PM, Quarrel Kukulcan said:

Are you saying I need to reposition the c bones to the offsets they'd have if their parent m bones were transformed?

Yep.

That's not an option if I want to produce objects worn at the same time as Avastar-exported rigged mesh from the same dev kit. :(

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14 hours ago, Quarrel Kukulcan said:

That's not an option if I want to produce objects worn at the same time as Avastar-exported rigged mesh from the same dev kit. :(

Well, at this point your option is to use the devkit setting avastar to use neutral pose, not being aware of the correspo ding inworld slider values. Most of the times that's enough to produce meshes that work on the majority of the user cases

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