Swapping parcels on the mainland...

[Marjolaine Seymour]

I was recently approached by someone asking me, if I'd be willing to swap to another (same size) parcel on the mainland sim where I have had a house rezzed for some years now.

It all seems legit, and of course I'd be willing to consider it, as I have no intention of expanding my mainland parcel. However.... the problem is of course.... I don't know the other person, and even if they appear legit (quite old account) I have no way of knowing they are honest...  Is there any 'safe' way we can swap the parcels without any risk of the other part trying to 'snatch the land' ?

TIA,
Marjo

[Chic Aeon]

You can set to sale ONLY to that person.  You could each set a very high price on the parcel.

 

BUT you (or the other person) will end up paying extra tier for the time they  own both parcels.  

I suggest that for oh so many reasons this is a bad idea. "I" certainly wouldn't do it.

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

Even if you both actually have spare tier available, there is nothing to guarantee that the other person will set their parcel for sale to you after you have set yours for sale to them.  If you cannot fully trust the other person, you could possibly use a 3rd party -- if you could find one that has available tier and that you could both trust.

Said 3rd party would be sort of like an escrow service.  You would each sell to the 3rd party, selling for maybe half of whatever the agreed upon 'escrow' fee is, and then that person sells the parcel to the other person for the other half of the escrow fee.  For example - Said 3rd party might charge an escrow fee of L$50 each.  Each of you sell to that person for L$25 and then buy the other property from that same 3rd party for L$25.  

However, something like that would only work if you both can trust the 3rd party --- and I have no suggestions on how to go about finding such a person.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

If you cannot fully trust the other person, you could possibly use a 3rd party -- if you could find one that has available tier and that you could both trust.

Probably only guarantee is a pinky swear, or a biologically gross and soul-compromising blood oath.

[Qie Niangao]

I nominate @LittleMe Jewell as trusted third party agent ("TTPA"), but if there's somebody already trusted by both land-swapping parties, that's cool as long as they can follow instructions— instructions we are about to concoct, under public scrutiny.

Here's one approach that I think would work (requiring no extra tier of anybody), but can almost certainly be simplified:

1. TTPA gains sole Owner-level control of two invite-only groups with no other members nor land holdings
2. TTPA creates a Role in each group with land-deeding Ability
3. TTPA invites one Land-Swapping Party (LSP) into that Role in each group, so each group has just the one LSP
4. Each LSP donates the to-be-swapped land to "their" group, with the "makes contribution with deed" box checked
5. Each LSP leaves their group, causing the groups to be under-tier by the full amount of the deeded land. TTPA confirms both LSPs have left the groups
6. TTPA sets the group-owned land for sale to the new, swapped LSP, for L$0
7. Each owner buys their new, swapped land, and everybody is happy.
8. Groups go poof for lack of members, or get recycled for some other purpose, under TTPA's control.

It should be possible to re-use existing groups as long as they can be set invite-only and can be temporarily stripped of any other members with land-owning abilities.

I think it's perfectly possible to do this with only one group, giving the LSP's that "Deed land and buy land for group" Ability but not any of the other Parcel Management Abilities ("Set land for sale info", "Abandon land to Governor Linden, "Subdivide and join parcel") but I'd want a sanity check on that first.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Random thought I had was that each party could post a hefty bond to a third party, which would be refunded once the land transfers were completed. This assumes there is nothing particularly irreplaceable about one or both of the parcels, and that "go find another now that you have received a forfeited bond for twice what your land was worth" would be an acceptable consolation if it all went wrong. 

[Marjolaine Seymour]

Sighs... thank you for all your input - just what I was afraid of you would say. Seems to be no safe ways to do a swap, as I doubt me and the other part have any mutual trusted part.
And setting the land for sale... I mean... yes, I do from time to time put in real $$$ to get L$, but here we are speaking an area where I would have to ask for something in the L$ 75.000 to 100.000 - and that would equivalence maybe 6-8 months of my in-world spending. But there is still no way to know whether the other part will do this fairly from their side. Again, they probably would, but I have no way of knowing since I don't know them at all.

Anyone who knows whether or not there is a chance LL would facilitate a swap like this?

Edited May 15, 2022 by Marjolaine Seymour
Corrected some typos - twice

[Alwin Alcott]

3 hours ago, Marjolaine Seymour said:

Anyone who knows whether or not there is a chance LL would facilitate a swap like this?

not very likely, they only are the third party in private regionsales.
There are to many mainland sales to do that.

Set your land for sale for the full price and let the other one buy first. Let them also put the full price on theirs. 
You'll end at least with the full amount of L$ if the other one breaks the trust.
Land enough to find. LL has tons of abandoned good situated mainland.

[Katherine Heartsong]

I'd be a go-between if you want. I don't know either of you, and assume that I'm fairly trusted by those who know me, being as honest as I am on the forums and in SL. We could do it similar to what @LittleMe Jewell said but even simpler. Get three of us in world at same time. Each of you set your land to sale to me for L1. I buy both parcels. You tell me what you're each are selling your land really for (say 75,000 each or whatever). Then you each pay me that amount, then I set the land for sale to the other person for 1L and I pay you the amount it is really being sold for. Total transaction fees? 4L. Let me know.

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

I buy both parcels.

This would certainly work but requires that you have spare tier to cover both parcels, which was the only reason for the elaborate group-deeding process I suggested. If the parcel areas total less than your spare tier, this would be much simpler.

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

You tell me what you're each are selling your land really for (say 75,000 each or whatever). Then you each pay me that amount, then I set the land for sale to the other person for 1L and I pay you the amount it is really being sold for.

I got the impression that neither of them are 'selling' it for a fee to the other.  They truly just want to do an even swap of the plots.

 

 

I would have offered to be the middle man, but I don't have any spare tier.  Using a group like Qie mentioned seems to complicate the whole process more than it should need to be.

And if this is done, be sure to remind both parties to pick up all of their stuff before the swapping process begins.

[blaireberry]

If you abandon land by accident or subsequently change your mind within a certain time period (I forgot how long that is, maybe a week), you can submit a support ticket to reclaim it and LL will set the land for sale back to you for L$0. So I wonder if you could arrange the swap to be done via support in a similar way - check with support beforehand if this is possible of course. In this scenario, both parties would abandon their land and ask support to set the land for L$0 sale to reflect the swap, i.e. your land will be sold by LL to the other person for L$0, and the other person's land will be sold by LL for L$0 to you. Don't know if LL would do it but doesn't hurt to ask.

[Marjolaine Seymour]

Thank you for all the inputs, offers and suggestions. I will first try to suggest the other part buys the land for 80.000 L$ - and then I buy theirs for the same amount. That way the requestor will have to carry the potential extra tier.... which might not even happen, as they already own other land in the same sim. 80.000 L$ should cover the current 'market value' of the land (old mainland, hence above average) in case the other part fails their side of the deal.

I will keep you posted on the development and whether I might need to take-up some of the other paths

[Theresa Tennyson]

On 5/14/2022 at 12:12 PM, Marjolaine Seymour said:

I was recently approached by someone asking me, if I'd be willing to swap to another (same size) parcel on the mainland sim where I have had a house rezzed for some years now.

It all seems legit, and of course I'd be willing to consider it, as I have no intention of expanding my mainland parcel. However.... the problem is of course.... I don't know the other person, and even if they appear legit (quite old account) I have no way of knowing they are honest...  Is there any 'safe' way we can swap the parcels without any risk of the other part trying to 'snatch the land' ?

TIA,
Marjo

Why did they ask you to do this swap, and have you seen the parcel you're supposed to be getting in exchange? My question is, what would their reason for 'snatching' it in the first place? It takes a certain amount of work to be nefarious; sometimes people are just honest, surprisingly enough.

[Mollymews]

21 hours ago, Marjolaine Seymour said:

we are speaking an area where I would have to ask for something in the L$ 75.000 to 100.000 - and that would equivalence maybe 6-8 months of my in-world spending. But there is still no way to know whether the other part will do this fairly from their side. Again, they probably would, but I have no way of knowing since I don't know them at all.

as they are asking for the swap then a way I have done it in the past, is to set it up so they have to go first.  With them going first they will incur the tier bump and not you

set your parcel for a price that you will feel comfortable with should they buy your land and then not sell you their land. Given the price range you have indicated then set it to sell to them (by name) for L$100,000 and tell them to do the same with their parcel. Set their parcel to sell to you directly for L$100,000. When they buy, and you have the money, then you buy their parcel

should the person cancel the sale, or the process bork, before you get a chance to buy their then you have L$100,000. Is why you insist they buy first

now they may say, how do I know you will buy after I buy yours ? The answer is: They are wanting to swap parcels, they are initiating the swap, not you. Therefore they are going to have to trust you

[Kathlen Onyx]

13 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Why did they ask you to do this swap, and have you seen the parcel you're supposed to be getting in exchange? My question is, what would their reason for 'snatching' it in the first place? It takes a certain amount of work to be nefarious; sometimes people are just honest, surprisingly enough.

This is what I would be asking? Why do they want to swap? Is your land a Sunrise/Sunset view and theirs is not? Is there land shaped differently/oddly shaped where it makes it difficult to build on? How about the lag on their parcel or the neighbors around them? I wouldn't be as suspicious of them trying to grab the land for free and would be more suspicious that your land is more lucrative a property than theirs.  

[Marjolaine Seymour]

As far as I can see, the parcel is identical - same region, orientation, shape/size.

The only difference seems to be that the parcel they are offering in exchange (right now, it is two parcels, but I have made it a condition before even making a final decision, that they are joined - and in that region, only LL can do the join) is located right up to the border to a neighbor sim. Otherwise it is the same... located on a south-facing coast line.

Am i missing a potential problem when the parcel they are offering are located just up to a sim border?

Requestor's rationale is that they want a large number of adjacent sections of land for their project of some kind.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Marjolaine Seymour
clarifying a detail

[Mollymews]

43 minutes ago, Marjolaine Seymour said:

As far as I can see, the parcel is identical - same region, orientation, shape/size.

The only difference seems to be that the parcel they are offering in exchange (right now, it is two parcels, but I have made it a condition before even making a final decision, that they are joined - and in that region, only LL can do the join) is located right up to the border to a neighbor sim. Otherwise it is the same... located on a south-facing coast line.

Am i missing a potential problem when the parcel they are offering are located just up to a sim border?

Requestor's rationale is that they want a large number of adjacent sections of land for their project of some kind.

am not exactly sure what you are meaning by two parcels located right up to the border to a neighbour sim

if the parcels are on two different regions then they can never be joined. The system doesn't allow it, which is what the requestor rationale might be for wanting a large number of adjacent sections of land

add edit: parcels on different regions can't share the LI

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Mollymews
might

[Marjolaine Seymour]

Ah .... sorry for adding confusion... no, parcels are all in the same region/sim.

- I have a 1024 sqm parcel, on the south-facing coastline - the requestor is asking me to accept a swap with a parcel also residing on the south-facing coast of the same region.
- The requestor's parcel is however made-up of 2 adjacent parcels, each 512 sqm, both in the same region... but both also 'touching' the border to another sim on their 'east' side.

I have made it a condition to even consider agreeing to a swap, that requestor convinces LL to join their current two parcels to one 1024 parcel (only LL can do that in this region).
However, what I all of sudden got worried about - except the whole issue of 'safely' completing a swap - is... could there be an issue in the fact that the combined parcel will have it's eastern border at the end of the sim... i.e. the border-line is also the sim-border?

/Marjo

 

[Qie Niangao]

14 minutes ago, Marjolaine Seymour said:

could there be an issue in the fact that the combined parcel will have it's eastern border at the end of the sim... i.e. the border-line is also the sim-border?

That's an interesting question. The sim border is something to stumble over when crossing, so if visitors are apt to wander through and beyond your parcel, it'll be less graceful (especially when the adjacent region is restarting). Sim borders also affect scripts and Experiences, with many functions limited to within-region dimensions and some temp-attachments auto-detaching at region borders, but this wouldn't seem a likely concern for normal land use.

Lag-wise, it's not obvious it should make much difference: regardless of border adjacency, a new neighbor could set up shop anywhere inside the same region with the same server-side effects, and viewer-side I don't see why there'd be much difference which side of the border lag-inducing objects are rezzed within draw distance.

Getting parcels combined in a region where Land Join/Divide isn't permitted might add some delay, but because these parcels are all standard sizes and the ones to be joined are adjacent, I guess it shouldn't be too bad.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

I've had many parcels on region borders, and it's never been a problem. As @Qie Niangao said, there can be the occasional rough border crossing if you are out and about, where there is a little hesitation as you cross that border, but if you are on your parcel hanging out or whatever, you shouldn't notice any difference.

Really, the only issues I've seen from being on a border is when you have a parcel at a spot where four regions join together, and I happen to like those locations for the randomness that can happen. 😂

[LittleMe Jewell]

Why would a Mainland region be set to not allow land owners to Join/Divide their own parcels?  I've never heard of such a restriction.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

40 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Why would a Mainland region be set to not allow land owners to Join/Divide their own parcels?  I've never heard of such a restriction.

Bay City is one example. 

[Marjolaine Seymour]

29 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Why would a Mainland region be set to not allow land owners to Join/Divide their own parcels?  I've never heard of such a restriction.

It is the old mainland... West Haven. I presume LL made that decision eons ago when they wanted it to resemble the 'burbs'. That people have built towers and malls later on... errr... different story.

[Love Zhaoying]

There could be something related written in the covenant, if you didn't check already.