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Encroachment level over 9000!


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I'm just gonna leave this in here because why the hell not... Context... a region is 256x256, created a prim that was 64x64 on my land for reference and raised to the level of the object, to avoid perspective distortion. Yes, that is an object not only encroaching all the tenants at 2500 height, but also with an estimated 960m2. How is this even allowed, it beats me! And basically it's a huge middle finger to any other tenant that may want to rez at that height, by her majesty the queen! 😃 

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Well, it is a private region, with it's own covenant, so the owner can do whatever he wants ofc. But in LL covenants for example, that is absolutely not allowed (much less a 960m2 object that encompasses several regions). It is fun to see though, how... "creative" ppl can get! 😃

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1 hour ago, Hyperplexed said:

Well, it is a private region, with it's own covenant, so the owner can do whatever he wants ofc. 😃

You answered your own question of "how is this even allowed?" right there. If it's blocking something you want to do on the parcel at that particular height for some reason, have you asked the owner about relocating it? 

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This is a forum, it's not for governance, or to ask for assistance or help. If I was looking for assistance, I would have chosen the appropriate channel. Being a forum, means it is a place, for a wide range of topics. It can be to try to get help from other users, share advices, or experiences. Is it wrong? Just scroll through and you will see other threads without any real purpose. In this case, it was simply to express somewhat shock how some people find this acceptable.

May I not express my thoughts about it on a public forum? That is the purpose, not rocket science guys:
 

forum
  1. a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
    "we hope these pages act as a forum for debate"
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2 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

but there is no shock, it's a private region, the owner is ruler there ( within the TOS)

Well I'm new, so allow me the right for being shocked? Or may I not? But more importantly, this is a forum, and as the definition very simply explains, it is a place to debate on a particular issue, so my question is, aside from the fact that it is a private region and everything can happen (and yes within the confinements of the ToS), what makes it a plausible rule. And mind you, this specific rule is not even specified on the Covenant rules, there is absolutely nothing expressing that tenants may OR may not spill their objects into other tenants lands.

But here is a GREAT post I read sometime ago which is a very wise point (regardless of exactly what is being considered here, this is just common sense that can be applied to anything:

Quote

Finally, ask yourself "Is this really a serious issue? Who is it bothering? If everyone did this would it be a problem?"

So what if, all tenants decided to do the same? Obviously you cannot play favourites (lol) so, how do you solve the issue? What if every tenant decides to rez on his land, EVEN if at different heights, a 960x960 object that would just end up being too close to everyone else?

Thoughts?

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1 minute ago, Persephone Emerald said:

You can click on the object to try to return it to the owner. If you're successful, you may get evicted from the estate.  😄

The implication from my last post is that that option is disabled on the region, so no, I couldn't do that. It is an option that needs to be enabled via console, so nothing that can be done as a mistake. And if a sim owner enables that option, then it is with the intention of ppl to use it. Why would a sim owner do that if he wouldn't?

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Regardless of what encroaching content tenants can return belonging to each other, pretty sure Estate owners can exclude their objects from encroachment return. I have some Governor Linden-owned objects encroaching on some of my parcels and those can't be returned. I seem to recall this was all part of the plan when encroachment return was introduced, so landlords could let tenants do their thing but preserve any landscaping and infrastructure builds the owner provided to rental parcels.

It's within the tenant's rights to ask for a discount. Or find somewhere more to their liking. Personally, I'd expect pretty low rent if I couldn't build my own stuff at 2500m altitude, but that may all be specified in the covenant. 

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Regardless of what encroaching content tenants can return belonging to each other, pretty sure Estate owners can exclude their objects from encroachment return. I have some Governor Linden-owned objects encroaching on some of my parcels and those can't be returned. I seem to recall this was all part of the plan when encroachment return was introduced, so landlords could let tenants do their thing but preserve any landscaping and infrastructure builds the owner provided to rental parcels.

It's within the tenant's rights to ask for a discount. Or find somewhere more to their liking. Personally, I'd expect pretty low rent if I couldn't build my own stuff at 2500m altitude, but that may all be specified in the covenant. 

Not for me, this rule was not at all specified on the Covenant, and I only realized this after being there for 2 months and a half. The landlord did gave me a discount but because I have helped in the the past with scripts, and solving issues with his scripts, even without pay (I like helping ppl, what can I say...), and whenever I had a friend asking me for a place to rent, I would advice his business out of the kindness of my heart because I wanted to see his community thrive.

EDIT: The landlord did commit to add the rule that every tenant can build at any height, spilling to other parcels, once I exposed the situation for him, but did not do so. Just talk...

EDIT 2: I Want to say though... the purpose of this thread is not my personal experience, but rather, discuss what is appropriate or not, or what is an expectation when rules are not specified. While I completely agree that each Sim owner is completely entitled to create his own set of rules, what is a good code of conduct, when such rules are not specified, and in this particular case what is to be expected on the particular subject of land encroachment. I hope it gets clear.

EDIT 3: Also to make it clear... That object IS NOT from the sim owner, it is from one of the tenants!

Edited by Hyperplexed
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1 hour ago, Hyperplexed said:

EDIT 3: Also to make it clear... That object IS NOT from the sim owner, it is from one of the tenants!

This was not clear at all at the start of the thread. IMO, a reasonable expectation would be that if something is not addressed in the covenant, you can assume it's allowed (subject to TOS, of course). So if the covenant doesn't address encroachment, a fair assumption would be that it is allowed. 

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10 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

This was not clear at all at the start of the thread. IMO, a reasonable expectation would be that if something is not addressed in the covenant, you can assume it's allowed (subject to TOS, of course). So if the covenant doesn't address encroachment, a fair assumption would be that it is allowed. 

A fair reasonable expectation, no doubt, to not having constraints on something that is not set as a rule.

 

But isn't the expectation of you being allowed to build anywhere you wish, within the boundaries of the parcel you rent, takes precedence? Why should the person being encroached, be the one being limited on where to build, within his own land? The parcel is deeded to that person/group for a reason, it actually exists on a Database saying "this piece of land is leased to X" (I also had to buy the land in order to do so btw). It is not one of those places you have a system like Casper or whatever, with multiple tenants over the same parcel. If that did not meant anything... why even have a system operating that way? If parcel boundaries are irrelevant, then it makes more sense to use a system like that to control the Land Impact, without any expectation to have a parcel. If people are ok with that, then they might as well go rent on those cheap places where they have multiple tenants on the same parcel.

 

And is it not better to respect your neighbours and not build into their land? This is not just a tree hanging over another person's land, I could live with that as long as it respected the rest of the scenery, and didn't prevented using some other object or go right through a wall or something. This was a deliberated action from one of the tenants, knowing full well that would spill into his neighbours parcels.

 

And as I pointed out, let's say that there are 16 tenants on that sim. What if all the 16 tenants decide to do the same? Is it a sustainable thing to allow? This basically gives the opportunity of everyone to landscape a full sim, without having to pay for one. Sure, they will have LI limitations, but how sweet it is to have your own mini-homestead, without seeing the neighbours ugly buildings?

 

Just my thoughts... Ultimately this is a business decision, but would you like to be on a region where rules run amok and tenants can do whatever they feel like? All over the region?

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1 hour ago, Hyperplexed said:

... as I pointed out, let's say that there are 16 tenants on that sim. What if all the 16 tenants decide to do the same? Is it a sustainable thing to allow? This basically gives the opportunity of everyone to landscape a full sim, without having to pay for one. 

this is still no point to discuss on the forums. The one and only one to ask is your landlord.
There are no general rules, as in the TOS, broken. 
There;s no what if ... or any statement that we can discuss, it's between you and your landlord.

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What exactly is this object?  Is it a building?  A simple platform?  Is it counted against your prim allowance?  Can you put something above or below it?  Does.the landlord own the other regions it covers?   

Obviously, you've brought it to the landlords attention?  They have no problem with it being there?  How exactly is it impacting your use of your land aside from not being able to use one specific level above your land?  Can you put something up at 2525 or  2450?  Most place won't allow below 500.  There is no space between 500-2500 to build?  Or above 2500?

Ultimately, if it's not impacting anything aside from the ability to put something at one specific height, not sure why it matters if it's not counted against your prim allowance.

Annoying?  Maybe.  Against any rule?  No.

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1 hour ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I would move if it bothered me this much. 

Yeah. And I very well might move unless there was something interesting I could do with that thing at 2500.

If I were in the OP's situation, I think I would be surprised to find this thing hovering over my rented parcel, and I think I too would call it to the attention of the landlord. If, as apparently happened here, that landlord changed the covenant to make it explicitly permitted to have stuff encroaching on tenant's parcels, I'd have to understand that in great detail, including the conditions if any under which I may be able to rez my own megaprim encroaching other tenants.

If it's a free-for-all, I'd want to know what's to stop me from covering the entire existing megaprim at exactly the same height, so z-flicker makes it unbearably ugly? (I'm not suggesting actually doing such a thing, it's merely a hypothetical to give the landlord some thought about how much extra work they've unintentionally made for themselves with the laissez faire covenant.)

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I have a rental on a private region that has a megaprim space sphere at about 2500m, with a space station in the middle. The general idea is you can have a space station home at that height and go visit the neighbours or the community owned area. I wonder if this is something similar? 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I would move if it bothered me this much. 

I wont move, I have moved. But like I said this is not about my particular situation as an individual it is an issue that affects a group of individuals, all of them who are now, no longer able to use a significant space amount above or below.

3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

What exactly is this object?  Is it a building?  A simple platform?  Is it counted against your prim allowance?  Can you put something above or below it?  Does.the landlord own the other regions it covers?   

Obviously, you've brought it to the landlords attention?  They have no problem with it being there?  How exactly is it impacting your use of your land aside from not being able to use one specific level above your land?  Can you put something up at 2525 or  2450?  Most place won't allow below 500.  There is no space between 500-2500 to build?  Or above 2500?

Ultimately, if it's not impacting anything aside from the ability to put something at one specific height, not sure why it matters if it's not counted against your prim allowance.

Annoying?  Maybe.  Against any rule?  No.

  1. The object is a huge linked object, which the root prim is a tiny prim. The whole size of the linked object is around 960x960.
  2. It is not counting as prim size, no... however it is counting as rendering cost for everyone that happens to be in the radius range of the camera setting. Which means that there will a dead zone in which no one can rez things either up or down, under the risk of increasing the rendering costs, which in that platform's case is over 1 million (1.380.409). See the new attachment and read more about it on: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Rendering_weight . If the platform is at that height covering the entirety of the sim, it will hinder the ability to stay away from other objects which is one of the advantages of having platforms in the sky. If for example your camera is set to 256, and you have a platform at 2500, you would want at least to have nothing at 2500+256 and 2500-256, to avoid your camera from seeing it. If ALL the tenants wish to do the same, (and let's hypothetically consider a land with 4x4 parcels, which makes up to 16 tenants), and if you want to keep at the very least platforms above 1024 only, then if all tenants will have only between all 16 platforms a 384 distance. 256 up + 256 down = 512 distance. And then what? How do you solve that issue? And when establishing rules, should you give the same rights to everyone? And that would mean allowing every single tenant to be allowed to do the same. And again, why should I (or others) be subject to other tenants will to be able to rez at any specific height? What happens if everyone does that until someone runs out of space?
  3. Screen-Shot-2022-04-30-at-17.53.00.jpg
  4. Yes I have brought this to the attention of the Landlord, but that is besides the point of the thread. I'm going to repeat this again. This is not me about as an individual or about my no-longer existing problem (moved). This is simply to debate whether this would be a determining factor on whether this would be a deal breaker for you or not. If not that is absolutely fine ofc! If you feel ok on having neighbours spilling into your and everyone else's space in the region, that is absolutely fine, just go on and say "I'm fine with this". We all are different and have different points of view. And I want to hear people's opinions. 😃 
1 hour ago, Aethelwine said:

I have a rental on a private region that has a megaprim space sphere at about 2500m, with a space station in the middle. The general idea is you can have a space station home at that height and go visit the neighbours or the community owned area. I wonder if this is something similar? 

Not at all, and again, not specified in the Covenant. The object also doesn't belong to the landlord, but to one of the tenants.

 

EDIT: Going to remind again that NONE of this was specified in the covenant. It's like advertising you're being leased a building with several floors, but forgetting to mention there are tenants occupying some floors that cannot be moved.

Edited by Hyperplexed
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I once had an alt who had free rent at a residential sim. The only problem was that the people running the place liked to troll their tenants and decided to set fire to their houses. When I found a "fire bomb" in my alt's house, I put it in Edit mode to stop it from going off, but I couldn't do that for long. And guess what....There was nothing in any rules that said a landlord couldn't firebomb their tenants' homes.

792708075_DigitalWorldsonFire18-31-10.png.ef1a2fc00f4d5881743791ff72b54937.png757896526_DigitalWorldsonFire28-31-10.png.542d28f63c6f0fd406ee196f1b8427a6.png

My recourse was to troll them back with a little poem posted to the group, then pack up my stuff and leave:

 

A Poem for the Griefers at Digital Worlds

You people are crazy.
I think you all suck.
You may think I'm mean,
But I don't give a f*ck.

Your antics are annoying.
Your comments are inane.
You probably think you're smart,
But you're missing half a brain.

With little regret, 
I bid you all adieu.
Be warned you newbie folks.
This place is full of poo.
 

My point is that SL is more like the Wild West than like Real Life. There are a few hard rules in the TOS, but after that we're pretty much on our own here.

Edited by Persephone Emerald
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