2 Billion USD funding for a metaverse.

[Love Zhaoying]

Maybe Linden Labs doesn't WANT billions of dollars, and are doing all this for love of the...game.

[Odaks]

7 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I have some tenants that have built things like bowling allies or various parlour games or non-gambling card games, but that's not what is meant by "games".

But here you may have stumbled upon a very interesting difference between playing a game in a "game" and playing a game in the psuedo-reality of SL. Maybe this is too subtle, but I think it presents an opportunity to present games in a totally different light.

Maybe that would be lost on the seasoned mindset of traditional gamers, though.

[Mollymews]

19 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Although the "syntactic sugar" of that language would be welcome, the ability to use existing C# libraries would be extremely limited by script memory

pretty much yes

at best, I think that any C# libraries that Linden did surface would all be done thru a Linden API (to keep the sandbox safe). We wouldn't be able to access any non-sandbox libraries of our own design/choice (external to the Linden API)

syntax-wise I would quite like to use dot notation to access prim properties, but yes is just sugar really

a thing I could see as being really useful is if we could write classes. I can see how with classes we could much more easily map linked prims to a hierachy for puppeteering purposes

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Mollymews
( ... )

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

31 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I rarely hear people complain about lag, in fact, because they don't attempt to play games in SL. In the last three months with hundreds of people coming through, I can recall one person who moved out "due to lag," and she moved to another sim of ours that in fact had more scripts on it, go know. Most people actually don't drive, either but those who do don't find the sim crossings the horror implied on the forums.

I can't think of a single profile I've viewed recently -- and I see a LOT of them -- that had any games on it. You simply have a different sample, and you shouldn't take it for the norm. The Lindens never really faced a major demand from their user base for games. They lay on these games of their own which don't have a lot of uptake; they know this to be the case. So they haven't made it a priority. There are three things to do in virtual worlds: a) play house b) play store c) play war. The Lindens have always enabled a) and b) but not much of c) -- and with good reason.

We could get into a cyclic argument about whether there are no good games in SL because of lack of interest in gaming or whether there's a lack of interest in gaming because there are no good games in SL, but as you pointed out my sample of residents is not the norm but just one demographic among many, as is yours, and it makes sense that your sample would lean more towards the "play house/store" demographic given your involvement in the rental business and community building. 

Some of the profiles I see that list the games people play outside of SL also include an open invitation to add the person on Discord, so clearly these folks are quite happy to keep their gaming and their SL separate and are not hounding LL to compete with Fortnite, etc. but that doesn't mean that they (and every other demographic of resident) wouldn't benefit from improvements and additions to SL which enabled creators to provide better content and fun new activities.  LL enabling content creators to create better games wouldn't be detrimental to the rest of the SL community, quite the opposite in fact since those new features would no doubt also be used to update existing content/activities.  As the saying goes, "a rising tide lifts all boats".

[Prokofy Neva]

1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

Firstly, what does Rome have to do with the Olympics?

Secondly, Rome was built in a day - they decided to create Rome and Rome was there. It's empire however wasn't, which is where the saying comes from.

Second Life is 19 years old and has more than enough foundation to finally move forward. Second Life is built, the games should come. There is a reason why the gaming industry is worth $250 billion and a reason why the entertainment industry is worth $720 billion. It isn't because they waited 19 years to think ok we have built a console or have built a movie theatre now its time to make a game or a movie. Entertainment is what drives people to come back and SL has lost its entertainment value.

Additionally, games in Rome were the lifeblood of the city and without those games Rome wouldn't have lasted 1229 years let alone 1 year. It was fundamental to their culture and also to the rise of the Roman Empire.

Without those games, Rome wouldn't have kept the public focused on their empire.

Without those games, Rome wouldn't have had the money to develop its empire.

Without those games, Rome wouldn't have become as popular and as big as it was.

Likewise:

Without those games, Second Life can't keep the public focused on its Empire.

Without those games, Second Life cant get the money and investment to develop its Empire.

Without those games, Second Life cant become popular or as big as is should be.

RP is a major draw for Second Life. The majority of its users are RP'ers (even adult). RP is a game but restricted due to not being able to develop those games hence the RP'ers are leaving.

Look we get it Prokofy, you dont like games and want SL to stay as it should. The thing you need to accept though is you are not the only person under the sun.

The Lindens never put in the games and gaming functions you wished. 

Now why do you think that is? Because it wasn't their business model. Because it didn't work for them. It's not about me.

Rome is mixed up with Greece deliberately to combine two memes. And the Empire is more the simile to use for a virtual world than one city, so there isn't anything wrong with using that meme. I didn't realize you had a degree in Greco-Roman history, good to know.

Conquest of new territory was the lifeblood of Rome and not mere games or they wouldn't have had any empire to start with.

LL is not at all focused on games; it just cut the payout from them, and hasn't changed or improved them in the many years since they were developed. The end. 

RP is not games. They are very different. You can RP with a piece of paper and a dial-up Internet; you don't need some special engine or bells or whistles. That's really a sleight of hand to suddenly start talking about RP when your subject was games. No one complains that RP is hampered because of some technical failure of SL.

There are 50 things that could be improved in groups and the UI, for example, to make it easier to run businesses and non-profit or other groups in SL. This has nothing whatsoever to do with gaming and gamers' culture. It's not about me. It's about the actual RL direction that SL took which some don't wish to accept and which they keep trying to divert.

[Drayke Newall]

30 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

The Lindens never put in the games and gaming functions you wished. 

Odd, why is there a health function in Second Life if LL didn't put in game functions? A health function that when you see a heart on the viewer and if the avatar takes enough damage they 'die' and are teleported back to their home position aka spawn point. The same system that you state in your previous post doesn't exist and shouldn't exist in Second Life.

I'll quote you: "There is no "knock on benefit" to having security orbs "teleport home" as if you have died in battle, and now you are returned to your "home base" or "spawn point" (the game function from which that pernicious orb feature was drawn)."

That quote right there is laughable as that very function does exist in Second Life as I explained. Here is the wiki page for it: Death - Second Life Wiki

For goodness sake there is even specific LSL commands such as LlGetAgentHealth or LlRezBullet which is only there for gaming functions such as FPS or RPG.

But if that wasn't enough you then embarrass yourself again in this latest post in suggesting LL not only dont have such functions in the viewer but even suggested that linden Lab haven't even put in the games people want into Second Life.

Why if Linden Lab has never put in a game does Linden Realm Exist? Paleo Quest? etc.

They sure look like games and game functions to me.

30 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

RP is not games. They are very different. You can RP with a piece of paper 

Yes you can RP with just a piece of paper. Do you know what that is called? A Table Top GAME or Role Playing Game. It is where modern digital RPG's come from.

30 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

No one complains that RP is hampered because of some technical failure of SL.

I beg to differ as does the entire RP community that uses swords, guns, bows, cars and arrows etc in Second Life as part of RP. Places like Gor, Fantasy, urban, car racing, etc. All of those RP communities certainly wish that LL would invest in more game like functions or improve on the technical failures such as physics for car racing or better weapon controls, damage and bullet/arrow hit registration.

30 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

There are 50 things that could be improved in groups and the UI, for example, to make it easier to run businesses and non-profit or other groups in SL. This has nothing whatsoever to do with gaming and gamers' culture. It's not about me. It's about the actual RL direction that SL took which some don't wish to accept and which they keep trying to divert.

What you cant seem to grasp is that no one is saying LL should turn Second Life into a game. What people are saying is that they should provide users the ability to make a game in SL better than we can now. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Drayke Newall

[Prokofy Neva]

3 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Odd, why is there a health function in Second Life if LL didn't put in game functions? A health function that when on you see a heart on the viewer and if the avatar takes enough damage they 'die' and are teleported back to their home position aka spawn point. The same system that you state in your previous post doesn't exist and shouldn't exist in Second Life.

I'll quote you: "There is no "knock on benefit" to having security orbs "teleport home" as if you have died in battle, and now you are returned to your "home base" or "spawn point" (the game function from which that pernicious orb feature was drawn)."

That quote right there is laughable as that very function does exist in Second Life as I explained. Here is the wiki page for it: Death - Second Life Wiki

For goodness sake there is even specific LSL commands such as LlGetAgentHealth or LlRezBullet which is only there for gaming functions.

But if that wasn't enough you then embarrass yourself again in this latest post in suggesting LL not only dont have such functions in the viewer but even suggested that linden Lab haven't even put in the games people want into Second Life.

Why if Linden Lab has never put in a game does Linden Realm Exist? Paleo Quest? etc.

They sure look like games and game functions to me.

Yes you can RP with just a piece of paper. Do you know what that is called? A Table Top GAME or Role Playing Game. It is where modern digital RPG's come from.

I beg to differ as does the entire RP community that uses swords, guns, bows, cars and arrows etc in Second Life as part of RP. Places like Gor, Fantasy, urban, car racing, etc. All of those RP communities certainly wish that LL would invest in more game like functions or improve on the technical failures such as physics for car racing or better weapon controls, damage and bullet/arrow hit registration.

What you cant seem to grasp is that no one is saying LL should turn Second Life into a game. What people are saying is that they should provide users the ability to make a game in SL better than we can now. 

The health function was inserted at the dawn of SL by the coder Lindens who came from this gaming culture. It is seldom used. I keep it turned off on all my properties and I NEVER have anyone ask to turn it back on, or to turn it back on themselves (they  have the power to do so). I go by what I see numerous people actually do inworld, not by the theory dictated by a snippet of code creating a UI.

I think the last time I saw "Rez Bullet" functioning inworld was in Jesse in 2004. The overwhelming majority of people don't carry or use weapons. Again, I go by usage, not by theory.

I just explained above that the Lindens put in their own games, and then never updated them, and they don't have uptake, and they just reduced the payout from them. 

Again, you can't move the goal posts. RPing is not the same as the games with technical demands which you invoke as a reason for LL to do this or that, and which you claim should be a "driver" of progress. But it's not progress. It's regress.

I've never once seen on the forums, or heard from tenants, or heard from all the various people involved in Fantasy Faire, that they need better car racing or better bullet/arrow hits. It's just not what you imagine.

Everyone gets it that SL isn't a game and is a platform where you might make a game. But that is not the demand from the lion's share of users. They don't wish to make or play games of the war type or the FPS type or the console or team type of game online. That is not like elves with pieces of paper. And again, you don't need to hear it from me. See what the Lindens do. And see how they ended and sold their VR goggles platform that would have been used for what? Games.

[Drayke Newall]

18 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

The health function was inserted at the dawn of SL by the coder Lindens who came from this gaming culture. It is seldom used. I keep it turned off on all my properties and I NEVER have anyone ask to turn it back on, or to turn it back on themselves (they  have the power to do so). I go by what I see numerous people actually do inworld, not by the theory dictated by a snippet of code creating a UI.

Now you are changing the goal posts (even though I never did). You specifically said LL has never put in game functions and when I post evidence otherwise you say blah, blah it is not used.

18 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I think the last time I saw "Rez Bullet" functioning inworld was in Jesse in 2004. The overwhelming majority of people don't carry or use weapons. Again, I go by usage, not by theory.

You need to get out more and not stay in your little sim world. Gor sims rely on bows and arrows as part of their raids. The reason why the rezbullet isn't used anymore is specifically due to LL not updating it.

 I have guns and swords and bows that I use regularly in world at RP areas as do many people. If they didnt exist or aren't used then why is the a constant stream of new guns and weapons being made and sold on MP?

18 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I just explained above that the Lindens put in their own games, and then never updated them, and they don't have uptake, and they just reduced the payout from them. 

LL last updated Linden Realms a couple of years ago Major rework of it and redesign). As to Linden Realms, it is always populated and they reduced the payout from them due to botting. Nothing to do with lack of uptake.

18 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I've never once seen on the forums, or heard from tenants, or heard from all the various people involved in Fantasy Faire, that they need better car racing or better bullet/arrow hits. It's just not what you imagine.

LMAO ok....

Edited April 13, 2022 by Drayke Newall

[Prokofy Neva]

7 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Now you are changing the goal posts (even though I never did). You specifically said LL has never put in game functions and when I post evidence otherwise you say blah, blah it is not used.

You need to get out more and not stay in your little sim world. Gor sims rely on bows and arrows as part of their raids. The reason why the rezbullet isn't used anymore is specifically due to LL not updating it.

 I have guns and swords and bows that I use regularly in world at RP areas as do many people. If they didnt exist or aren't used then why is the a constant stream of new guns and weapons being made and sold on MP?

LL last updated Linden Realms a couple of years ago Major rework of it and redesign). As to Linden Realms, it is always populated and they reduced the payout from them due to botting. Nothing to do with lack of uptake.

LMAO ok....

I maintain a shooting gallery with targets with bows and arrows in Buryat Mongolia. Few people ever come and use it. I go there myself now and then, but it's just not that compelling. People wear weapons as accessories like jewelry, and seldom use them. Because they may be in RP. But they aren't playing a game.

If there were many genuine people and not bots playing, they wouldn't have had to reduce the payout.

The update was some years ago. And it didn't update its way out of being a primitive monster chase sort of game. If there were no payout at all, no one would come.

[Drayke Newall]

20 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I maintain a shooting gallery with targets with bows and arrows in Buryat Mongolia. Few people ever come and use it. I go there myself now and then, but it's just not that compelling. People wear weapons as accessories like jewelry, and seldom use them. Because they may be in RP. But they aren't playing a game.

Oh wow, a shooting gallery. Of course! that is a sure fire way of working out whether hit registration works and evidence that no one uses weapons...

20 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

If there were many genuine people and not bots playing, they wouldn't have had to reduce the payout.

LMAO actually thinking I meant Second Life avatar bots in the term you are thinking of and not the gaming term of a person botting being a bot.

Also the payout wasn't reduced it was capped per day and per week.

20 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

The update was some years ago. And it didn't update its way out of being a primitive monster chase sort of game. If there were no payout at all, no one would come.

The update to Linden Reams was in 2020 when they shut it down for so long that people were wondering if it was going to open again. That is recent not some years ago. I go there regularly and dont get chased by a single monster. On the contrary I collected gems for quests handed them in and got my lindens. As I said, how about actually leaving your rental area and go to Linden Realms and other places. You will find that they DID update it away from a monster chase game.

ETA

As to saying people wouldn't play if there was no pay-out. Well of course not as the game is specifically designed completely around that system. If it was a zombie chase game with weapons, people would go there just for that without money payouts needed.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Drayke Newall

[Coffee Pancake]

12 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

That's not true whatsoever.

It's only true if you are a gamer or a coder with the gamer guy culture.

Gamer culture isn't restricted to "gamer guys".

Literally every single person I know plays video games of some sort irrespective of gender, almost everyone owns a switch or some other console. Everyone has a steam account.

You have a very limited understanding of the broad appeal and insane diversity that gaming covers. 

Gaming as a form of interactive narrative and story telling is a cultural cornerstone.

 

Wander over to https://itch.io/ and have a look at the kinds of games on offer. That's the type of game creator LL should try to attract.

 

 

 

[Drayke Newall]

30 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Wander over to https://itch.io/ and have a look at the kinds of games on offer. That's the type of game creator LL should try to attract.

Thanks for that link Coffee. The website I used to use for games like this disappeared last year with the whole flash removal from the interwebs.

Can download some fun short games to play again.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Wander over to https://itch.io/ and have a look at the kinds of games on offer. That's the type of game creator LL should try to attract.

Oh man, I LOVE Itch!!! Indie games, woot.

🚨Random idea incoming - wouldn't it be fun if we had a type of Pokémon game in SL? Run around the grid collecting cute little fluffy things and have monster battles with other residents.

Would rock if they had an official license to bring real Pokémon in, too, but now I'm just dreaming again. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

There was a game in SL that I used to play where you got to hack monsters to pieces. I forgot the name; it's been so long ago. For a long time, it was what kept me logging in every day. 

I kept hoping for a long time that more games like it would be introduced to SL. I gave up on it ever happening around 2015.

[Solar Legion]

7 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Oh man, I LOVE Itch!!! Indie games, woot.

🚨Random idea incoming - wouldn't it be fun if we had a type of Pokémon game in SL? Run around the grid collecting cute little fluffy things and have monster battles with other residents.

Would rock if they had an official license to bring real Pokémon in, too, but now I'm just dreaming again. 

Unless they're gone now ... Krafties would be close enough.

[Lewis Luminos]

Two billion dollars and it's still not enough to buy legs? How much are legs worth?

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, Solar Legion said:

Unless they're gone now ... Krafties would be close enough.

I don't think I've seen that! I'll have to Google.

Oooo it has a whole website. *digs*

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Lewis Luminos said:

Two billion dollars and it's still not enough to buy legs? How much are legs worth?

I guess they're afraid users will try to put something between the legs.

[Silent Mistwalker]

49 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I guess they're afraid users will try to put something between the legs.

Hmmm...

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Silent Mistwalker

[Love Zhaoying]

35 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Hmmm...

 

/me makes "Vroom, Vroom!" and bike rumble/motorboat-like noises

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

There are some MMOs out there with realistic avatars. My man played one called Rappelz and the toons there can be customised to look like a human or something more weird!  A bonus --- they have legs!!

[Bree Giffen]

I don't think any of those billions are going to create anything good. It's like giving that money to a thousand monkeys at a thousand typewriters. They're not going to make the sequel to Romeo and Juliet.

Roblox and Fortnite aren't going to get outside of the age markets they are in and it's only downhill for them. I've watched some kids who played Roblox drop it like hot garbage once they became teens. Their interest didn't go to zero... it went negative. Same thing will happen with Fortnite. We all understand the leaps made from children to teens to young adults. It's huge and no one wants to stay seated at the kids table... it's insulting. 

[Sid Nagy]

12 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

I don't think any of those billions are going to create anything good. It's like giving that money to a thousand monkeys at a thousand typewriters. They're not going to make the sequel to Romeo and Juliet.

Roblox and Fortnite aren't going to get outside of the age markets they are in and it's only downhill for them. I've watched some kids who played Roblox drop it like hot garbage once they became teens. Their interest didn't go to zero... it went negative. Same thing will happen with Fortnite. We all understand the leaps made from children to teens to young adults. It's huge and no one wants to stay seated at the kids table... it's insulting. 

I can see that, but why isn't there a ton of them that jump into SL when they are done with the kids stuff?

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

5 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I can see that, but why isn't there a ton of them that jump into SL when they are done with the kids stuff?

Most likely because, for the majority of them, SL has nothing to offer that's of interest to them?

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I can see that, but why isn't there a ton of them that jump into SL when they are done with the kids stuff?

because there are other far more engaging options, gaming mostly .. if youre going to settle into a mono game, MMOs have you covered, right down to the dress up and homes. Even WoW is rumored to be adding player housing this next expansion