Is hate real a virtual game?

[Ayashe Ninetails]

16 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Banning people from support groups for hate speech/racism/*phobia  ... who then get organized and show up to meetings to harass people, send a single under cover alt to collect names so participants can be harassed in IM, stalking participants on social media where they have used their avatar names out of SL .. buying land on regions with public venues to relay the UUIDs of people to someone elsewhere in SL .. who then harasses the target and everyone near the target on a disposable alt ... using IM relay prims rezzed on unoccupied mainland that delete themselves to flood someone and their known friends with hate messages and evade LL trying to remove the offending prim ... digging into someone's socials so they can call their kids schools and report the person for being a danger to children ... creating clone accounts of someone so when they are name searched in SL, a slur filled account shows up right next to the actual account (and good luck getting LL to remove those!!) ...

Some people define their online existence in terms of how much harassment of minority groups they can dole out whilst avoiding consequences, SL has in my experience made it very easy for some people to engage in this kind of activity.

This is absolutely depressing. Just when I thought I'd seen/heard it all!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

38 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Loved her Hundred Secret Senses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hundred_Secret_Senses

Wish I could afford to buy books still. I'd love to read her other works.

I haven't specifically checked for Amy Tan, but the Internet Archive has a ton of books available for reading for free. Books still in copyright can often be signed out for online reading. It's a safe and ethically sound source for free reading materials of all types.

[Coffee Pancake]

3 hours ago, cunomar said:

You will never change an opinion by silencing it .

deplatforming as a back stop to self censorship is a very effectively strategy, and nothing is lost by missing out on what must be thoughtful and broadly inclusive opinions about other people living different lives.

 

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I didn't even want to acknowledge the whole cancel culture shenanigans. I guess my brain automatically tunes it out when someone starts complaining about it. That, and I already know what they're itching to say. I spent years being the only sole minority in a huge high school of thousands of kids. And I did it without a single complaint or whine or foot stomp or tantrum. Managed to get killer grades the entire way through, too. If someone truly wants to know what it feels like to be silenced, shut down, shunned, rejected, "cancelled," and socially isolated without a single chance to speak what's *really* on your mind, give that a try!

It's a strange kind of gaslighting, isn't it.
People who were not in the majority or who did not fit the norm have always been cancelled, and in far worse ways than losing a job or a reputation.
But you confront them, these uber-cancelling dominator bullies who had the upper hand for years, and they insist they are being cancelled, and call you names like "white knight" or "social justice warrior" for championing those who have actually been abused.

Mean people will always find a way to mock you for caring.

[Luna Bliss]

4 hours ago, cunomar said:

You will never change an opinion by silencing it .

I hope by "silencing" you don't mean confronting those who are being racist, sexist, or homophobic and asking them to stop being bullies? Because this is indeed how to stop such opinions as more people surrounding these incidents learn that this is not acceptable behavior. Society can evolve, but it won't if people don't speak up.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 hours ago, cunomar said:

You will never change an opinion by silencing it

In instance at the club that I recounted, the issue wasn't really about trying to change anyone's opinion or "educate" them.

The woman in question characterized the joke as "racist" herself -- she knew what it was. And she was clearly aware that it might be deemed offensive, or she wouldn't have prefaced it by announcing she wanted to tell it despite the fact that she knew it to be racist.

The point of my comment was to confirm that, yes indeed, telling a racist joke would be offensive, and she shouldn't do it.

And the point, in turn, of that, is to ensure that she didn't toxify the environment by making it unwelcoming and insulting to anyone of the particular ethnicity she was going to be targeting. Not to mention those, like myself, who also don't want to be exposed to toxic and racist discourse.

Sometimes it's not about changing minds or educating people. Sometimes its about preventing someone from consciously and deliberately targeting and excluding others. Misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia, and ableism have rendered great swathes of the internet uninhabitable for the targets of this kind of behaviour.

It's well past time to take these spaces back, and ensure that they are welcoming and inclusive for all.

[Coffee Pancake]

It's funny how all the free speech aficionados really just want to be as deeply racist or sexist or *phobic as possible, and be able to shove it in everyone else's face.

Once you let them say it loud, sooner or later it ends up devolving into eugenics.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

The problem with arguing for or against something as ill-defined as "cancel culture" is that without understanding what the term actually means to the people you're addressing your arguments are going to seem irrelevant to them at best.

Depending on who you're talking to the term "cancel culture" can vary in meaning from "holding people accountable for their behaviour" to "silencing opinions that you don't agree with", and while there are those who are in favour of cancel culture because they want people to be held accountable and those who are opposed to it because they don't want to be held accountable themselves, there are also those opposed to it because they recognize the inherent dangers of "mob mentality censorship" and those in favour of it because they enjoy seeing others being torn down, either because of their own jealousy, simple schadenfreude, or in some cases because they use virtue signalling to mask their own bad behaviour.

If you don't start any conversation on the subject of cancel culture with a clear statement that "everyone should be held accountable for their behaviour and nobody should be denied the ability to voice their opinion" then you're most likely going to spend half your time arguing with people over things that you probably agree with them on.

[Arielle Popstar]

12 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

At the club I was at on Sunday night, another patron announced in local that she had a "kinda racist joke" she wanted to tell. I politely responded that that was something she didn't really need to share. Happily, she decided not to. I didn't (and wouldn't have) ARed her, or ask that she be booted from the club, or report her to the PC Police, but . . . I guess you could say that I "cancelled" her?

I'm not feeling too bad about that.

For a very, very long time, and until quite recently, actually, the dominant strain in Western culture worked pretty hard, and, what's more, used the institutions of power, to silence those who transgressed against received "truths" and norms. Remember Joe McCarthy? And that James Webb guy, the one NASA named the telescope after? In the 1950s, he led the way at the US State Department in efforts to "weed out" gays in administrative positions during the so-called "Lavender Scare," and went on in the 60s to do the same at NASA.

In parts of the US now, in 2022, there are people, and actual school boards and local councils, banning books from libraries. In at least one instance I know of, there was an actual book burning.

But the real threat to free speech is me asking someone not to tell a hateful and hurtful joke in a club, right?

Such a useful cartoon.

The cartoon promotes cancel culture when part of the thrust of your post is how suspected communists sympathizers and gays were cancel cultured in the 50's and 60's by a couple of supposed justice warriors. Bit of a mixed message as to what you are promoting. How are we evolving as a culture if we still use the same methods that were proven to have had negative consequences when they were used in the past? 

5 hours ago, StarlanderGoods said:

As soon as someone starts talking about cancel culture, it´s a giant red flag for me, what is it that they are holding back, that would get them "cancelled" I wonder.  And why do they think that it should be protected from criticism ?

Cancel culturists are really just modern day vigilante's, destroying a person's life on what is often no more then hearsay and gossip. By your own judgement, why should it be protected from criticism?

 

11 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

On a positive note, the two right-wing knuckleheads who ran for school board positions in our district were roundly trounced in today’s election. Though there will be no book bans or burnings, I did toss all their campaign flyers in my fireplace tonight.

Well don't you mean there will be no right wing book bans and burnings? The Left wing has its own list of books it bans and would like to burn. Dr. Sues, Huckleberry Finn, To Kill a Mockingbird, etc and there is even a consensus to ban Barbie's! And here is a list of thousands of other items Liberals would like to ban.

• Ban Barbie dolls 
• Ban cheerleading and another article HERE
• Ban toothbrushes (Yes, it’s from the democrat change.org.)
• Ban fishing on the ocean
• Ban feeding stray animals
• Ban hamburgers
• Ban smoking outside
• Ban smoking inside
• Ban frequent flier miles
• Ban drive-throughs in restaurants
• Ban natural gas use
• Ban sliced bread
• Ban animal fur in clothing
• Ban tailgate parties
• Ban Styrofoam cups
• Ban Cell Phone privacy

https://metallicman.com/laoban4site/the-many-things-that-democrats-want-to-ban-running-list/

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I didn't even want to acknowledge the whole cancel culture shenanigans. I guess my brain automatically tunes it out when someone starts complaining about it. That, and I already know what they're itching to say. I spent years being the only sole minority in a huge high school of thousands of kids. And I did it without a single complaint or whine or foot stomp or tantrum. Managed to get killer grades the entire way through, too. If someone truly wants to know what it feels like to be silenced, shut down, shunned, rejected, "cancelled," and socially isolated without a single chance to speak what's *really* on your mind, give that a try! The experience only made me stronger, though. *shrug*

I had to hide in my bedroom/closet to cry on the really bad days. Pretty much every school day. No one cared then, they don't care now.

[Coffee Pancake]

  

27 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

•  

What a wonderfully disingenuous CLICK BAIT list, highlighted to cause maximum face value outrage.

There are sadly a lot of things that once upon a time were considered fine, like lead in fuel & paint or cigarettes, but after decades of industrialized use have proven to be very much not fine.

It's easy to get upset about things being stopped because of "the environment", like single use or disposable plastics, especially when ignoring that you and your offspring live in that same increasingly toxic environment.

Sooner or later, some evil dogooder will demand people stop putting poison in the well, pointing out you're fine and have drunk the well water all your life with no ill effects is the ultimate expression of selfishness, and does nothing for those who follow and will undoubtedly live shorter lives with a lot more cancer and death.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Coffee Pancake

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Banning people from support groups for hate speech/racism/*phobia  ... who then get organized and show up to meetings to harass people, send a single under cover alt to collect names so participants can be harassed in IM, stalking participants on social media where they have used their avatar names out of SL .. buying land on regions with public venues to relay the UUIDs of people to someone elsewhere in SL .. who then harasses the target and everyone near the target on a disposable alt ... using IM relay prims rezzed on unoccupied mainland that delete themselves to flood someone and their known friends with hate messages and evade LL trying to remove the offending prim ... digging into someone's socials so they can call their kids schools and report the person for being a danger to children ... creating clone accounts of someone so when they are name searched in SL, a slur filled account shows up right next to the actual account (and good luck getting LL to remove those!!) ...

Some people define their online existence in terms of how much harassment of minority groups they can dole out whilst avoiding consequences, SL has in my experience made it very easy for some people to engage in this kind of activity.

As I said.. I have not witnessed any of that.  I lead a very solitary existence in SL.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

33 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

 

• Ban toothbrushes (Yes, it’s from the democrat change.org.)
•  

Explain to us how this petition is trying to "ban" anything.

And while you're at it, explain to us what the word "consensus" means.

[Silent Mistwalker]

10 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

  

What a wonderfully disingenuous CLICK BAIT list, highlighted to cause maximum face value outrage.

There are sadly a lot of things that once upon a time were considered fine, like lead in fuel & paint or cigarettes, but after decades of industrialized use have proven to be very much not fine.

It's easy to get upset about things being stopped because of "the environment", like single use or disposable plastics, especially when ignoring that you and your offspring live in that same increasingly toxic environment.

Sooner or later, some evil dogooder will demand people stop putting poison in the well, pointing out you're fine and have drunk the well water all your life with no ill effects is the ultimate expression of selfishness, and does nothing for those who follow and will undoubtedly live shorter lives with a lot more cancer and death.

EPA rule would finally ban asbestos, carcinogen still in use

Edited April 6, 2022 by Silent Mistwalker

[Drake1 Nightfire]

30 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Well don't you mean there will be no right wing book bans and burnings? The Left wing has its own list of books it bans and would like to burn. Dr. Sues, Huckleberry Finn, To Kill a Mockingbird, etc and there is even a consensus to ban Barbie's! And here is a list of thousands of other items Liberals would like to ban.

• <snipped list>

https://metallicman.com/laoban4site/the-many-things-that-democrats-want-to-ban-running-list/

The Barbie link is a FB page, nothing about Barbie's there... 

They want to ban plastic toothbrushes and replace them with ecofriendly versions.. Thats a good thing. 

Banning deep ocean fishing is a good thing, so many fish species are endangered due to over fishing, using hatcheries and fish farms would be better for everyone. Less mercury in the fish. 

Feeding feral cats and dogs only causes more feral animal growth. having packs of feral dogs and cats is dangerous. Both can carry a variety of diseases. 

ONE uni banned beef.. ONE! Hardly a democrat agenda considering it wasnt even an American school!

Smoking should be banned in public. It causes nothing but heath issues. 

Sliced bread was banned decades ago for THREE months during WW2. 

There is ZERO need for fur in clothing. 

Styrofoam cups are horrible for the environment. Good luck finding a place to recycle it. 

You do realize quite a few of the links you posted just a short 30 minutes ago are broken, right? How much checking did you do? Did you even read a single one of them? 

 

[Arielle Popstar]

21 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

  

What a wonderfully disingenuous CLICK BAIT list, highlighted to cause maximum face value outrage.

 

6 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

The Barbie link is a FB page, nothing about Barbie's there... 

..................................................................................

You do realize quite a few of the links you posted just a short 30 minutes ago are broken, right? How much checking did you do? Did you even read a single one of them? 

 

11 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

EPA rule would finally ban asbestos, carcinogen still in use

 

13 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Explain to us how this petition is trying to "ban" anything.....

The fact that the four of you were so easily diverted by the shiny clickbait doesn't speak well for the ability to argue the weightier aspects of my post.  But thanks for coming out.

[Arielle Popstar]

35 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It's funny how all the free speech aficionados really just want to be as deeply racist or sexist or *phobic as possible, and be able to shove it in everyone else's face.

Once you let them say it loud, sooner or later it ends up devolving into eugenics.

It's funny how all the restricted speech aficionados really just want to be able to silence their critics that expose the inane justifications for pushing through what are often just totalitarian policies that have little or nothing to do with hate speech against minorities. 

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

 

The fact that the four of you were so easily diverted by the shiny clickbait doesn't speak well for the ability to argue the weightier aspects of my post.  But thanks for coming out.

At least we read what you linked to. Unlike, um...

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The fact that the four of you were so easily diverted by the shiny clickbait doesn't speak well for the ability to argue the weightier aspects of my post.  But thanks for coming out.

Googling something that appeases the outrage part of your brain and dumping it here verbatim (without even reading it) does not make the point you think it does.
 

If you want to make weightier points, do so in your own words without resorting to hyperbole.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The fact that the four of you were so easily diverted by the shiny clickbait doesn't speak well for the ability to argue the weightier aspects of my post.  But thanks for coming out.

The fact that you didnt fact check any of your "click bait links" and never respond to direct questions speaks volumes about your ability to argue. 

Apparently you didnt read my reply as i responded to most all of your links with the reasons for the wanted banns. Most of which arent banns at all but replacements. And the beef one was just silly. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

 

 

 

The fact that the four of you were so easily diverted by the shiny clickbait doesn't speak well for the ability to argue the weightier aspects of my post.  But thanks for coming out.

I didn't say one word to you or about your posts. I posted a link to an article I thought Coffee would be interested in reading. Thanks for projecting.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's a strange kind of gaslighting, isn't it.
People who were not in the majority or who did not fit the norm have always been cancelled, and in far worse ways than losing a job or a reputation.
But you confront them, these uber-cancelling dominator bullies who had the upper hand for years, and they insist they are being cancelled, and call you names like "white knight" or "social justice warrior" for championing those who have actually been abused.

Mean people will always find a way to mock you for caring.

Mhm! I in no way had it the worst by any stretch of the imagination - I was mostly left alone and ignored (thankfully), but I'm a misfit in the truest sense of the word. I aligned myself with the stoners, goths, and metal kids because nobody really liked them much either, so we had that in common. I definitely did have some friends along the way, and I'd never ever claim that I've suffered much. Things were just highly obnoxious is all. I missed out on my own prom because my boyfriend's parents were super squeamish about me in the first place and decided not to let him go. You know, the educated A/B student dating their almost flunking C/D kid and doing my best to help him bring his grades up, the nerve of me! Hmpf. Is that enough to count as being cancelled?

Anyway, the overall experience made me seek out others online (hence why I was online ALL the time once that became a thing!) to learn more about people who were also really different. I mean, I naturally had a soft spot for that sort of thing, and that's how I became so fascinated with learning about everything. Fully immersed myself in learning about art, music, dance, culture, food. Became obsessed with travel. Everything.

But whoa - yes, there was absolutely a TON of hate on the internet (and still is). It's definitely tough to avoid, but I did my best. Confronting it wasn't on the table for me. I was already too tired, you know? But, hating on someone for being different? So don't get that. I wanted to be their friend and understand where they were coming from. Fighting with people online? No time, too busy seeking out new friends across the globe. Sitting on social media throwing around insults in this here 2022? Nope, busy sorting out my Egyptian rap Spotify playlist. Worry about being cancelled? Nah, been there done that, behbeh. And if I do accidentally offend, I'm quick to apologize. Why wouldn't I be? Why in the world would I want to hurt somebody's feelings?

 

4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I had to hide in my bedroom/closet to cry on the really bad days. Pretty much every school day. No one cared then, they don't care now.

I feel this. It was hard - definitely not saying it wasn't, and it was lonely and terrifying just stepping into the school every day. I probably did cry a bunch of times, too (honestly don't remember - I blanked out so much of that experience by now!), but I was determined to make the best of it. The school was good (in the "great on a college application" sense), compared to some of my other options. We moved there fully aware of how I'd be treated. Example - a good friend of mine who attended the school accompanied me to the admissions office and threw a fit on my behalf when the admins asked if I truly "belonged" there or if my attendance was some sort of mistake. Having her fight for me just made me determined to prove every single @#$!! who doubted me wrong, so I pushed on. Honestly - math classes made me cry more than anything else. I SUCK at numbers, but every other grade I made sure was a big fat A. 

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

At least we read what you linked to. Unlike, um...

SOP for some.  

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

At least we read what you linked to. Unlike, um...

 

Just now, Drake1 Nightfire said:

The fact that you didnt fact check any of your "click bait links" and never respond to direct questions speaks volumes about your ability to argue. 

Apparently you didnt read my reply as i responded to most all of your links with the reasons for the wanted banns. Most of which arent banns at all but replacements. And the beef one was just silly. 

 

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Googling something that appeases the outrage part of your brain and dumping it here verbatim (without even reading it) does not make the point you think it does.
 

If you want to make weightier points, do so in your own words without resorting to hyperbole.

Oh I am not outraged. I thought the list was quite a laugh to be honest even if some were legitimate concerns. What it does point out though is the incredible amount of policies that some would love to push through even if it is at the expense of pushing us back to the stone age.

[Silent Mistwalker]

5 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Mhm! I in no way had it the worst by any stretch of the imagination - I was mostly left alone and ignored (thankfully), but I'm a misfit in the truest sense of the word. I aligned myself with the stoners, goths, and metal kids because nobody really liked them much either, so we had that in common. I definitely did have some friends along the way, and I'd never ever claim that I've suffered much. Things were just highly obnoxious is all. I missed out on my own prom because my boyfriend's parents were super squeamish about me in the first place and decided not to let him go. You know, the educated A/B student dating their almost flunking C/D kid and doing my best to help him bring his grades up, the nerve of me! Hmpf. Is that enough to count as being cancelled?

Anyway, the overall experience made me seek out others online (hence why I was online ALL the time once that became a thing!) to learn more about people who were also really different. I mean, I naturally had a soft spot for that sort of thing, and that's how I became so fascinated with learning about everything. Fully immersed myself in learning about art, music, dance, culture, food. Became obsessed with travel. Everything.

But whoa - yes, there was absolutely a TON of hate on the internet (and still is). It's definitely tough to avoid, but I did my best. Confronting it wasn't on the table for me. I was already too tired, you know? But, hating on someone for being different? So don't get that. I wanted to be their friend and understand where they were coming from. Fighting with people online? No time, too busy seeking out new friends across the globe. Sitting on social media throwing around insults in this here 2022? Nope, busy sorting out my Egyptian rap Spotify playlist. Worry about being cancelled? Nah, been there done that, behbeh. And if I do accidentally offend, I'm quick to apologize. Why wouldn't I be? Why in the world would I want to hurt somebody's feelings?

 

I feel this. It was hard - definitely not saying it wasn't, and it was lonely and terrifying just stepping into the school every day. I probably did cry a bunch of times, too (honestly don't remember - I blanked out so much of that experience by now!), but I was determined to make the best of it. The school was good (in the "great on a college application" sense), compared to some of my other options. We moved there fully aware of how I'd be treated. Example - a good friend of mine who attended the school accompanied me to the admissions office and threw a fit on my behalf when the admins asked if I truly "belonged" there or if my attendance was some sort of mistake. Having her fight for me just made me determined to prove every single @#$!! who doubted me wrong, so I pushed on. Honestly - math classes made me cry more than anything else. I SUCK at numbers, but every other grade I made sure was a big fat A. 

Except for the grades (I hardly ever did my homework so mine were mostly Cs since homework counted as half your grade), reading this has been like reading a chapter or two from my book of life.