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syndi Pearl
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This post concerns the "BBB resident favoritism" and "Newbrooke slanty roof" issues and attempts to make constructive suggestions.

1. If there is means by which a resident can obtain an extraordinary parcel in Bellisseria in compensation for service, please let us know where we can find the official Linden document that describes this process. If no such document exists, please create it.

2. The covenant governing Linden Homes in Bellisseria is key to its success. After the stilt homes were released, the covenant was amended to cover stilt home related issues (e.g. "Privacy screens, fences, or other parcel perimeter barriers are not allowed on the water in the Stilt Home theme". Please further amend the covenant to enumerate Newbrooke related issues.

I would like to commend @Abnor Mole as the Linden who provides the most effective communication on these types of issues. (I have not been influenced by the fact that Abnor is good looking.)

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A desire to moderate what is and isn't acceptable is somewhat incompatible with free form user generated content and subjective rules, especially when the entire premise is the creation and sustenance of community.

Linden Homes have never been about the homes.

"If you have to ask, maybe you know the answer" is not in anyway meaningful guidance, it is at best a warning intended to chill participation, beauty being in the eye of the beholder.

The forums is also not the place to communicate such guidance as the bulk of the userbase are not here, and even if they were, some post burred pages deep in one of a thousand threads, which may or may not have been locked or removed.

Quote

 

“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”


― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

 

 

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  • Moles

Contrary to what some may believe, we do not want to have do any sort of aggressive enforcement. We don't want to be the decor police or scan the horizon for things we can pounce on and return. We don't enjoy any of that. It's actually quite stressful and we try to handle it as tactfully as possible. You wouldn't want someone who did enjoy that to be in that position anyway. When people actively try to push the boundaries on purpose it puts is in that position. It's why we've always stressed in all our communications to think of others and treat Bellisseria as a community. We don't want to tell people what they can and cannot build in their parcel, only whatever you build please make it look nice and with the theme of your surroundings for the sake of those around you. We definitely don't want to be 'building inspectors' passing judgement and micromanaging what anyone does. 

A detailed list of regulations as long as one's arm isn't really the key to that. I've talked before about adhering to the letter of the law vs the spirit of the law, pointing out that anyone with enough time on their hands can usually find a way to keep within the former while running roughshod over the latter. The person concentrating on the former askes themselves "Can I do this thing I want to do." A person concerned with the latter asked themselves "Should I do this thing I want to do."

And right now I'm thinking to myself that I can close this thread, but should I? I don't want to. I want to leave it open in the spirit of the title above.. communication. So what I'll do instead is ask all of you reading this to just do the same. You can comment (unless things so sideways as a few threads already have), but ask yourself if you should comment before hitting the submit button. Is what you are saying in the spirit of fostering civil discourse or in derailing it.

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  • Administrators

Hey folks!

It seems Abnor beat me to it, but to add onto some of the excellent points in his post I wanted to provide further information.

If you have an idea that you want to collaborate with us on, such as other groups have done in the past. You should reach out to Derrick or Patch directly to discuss it with them. I believe this should answer your first question.

In regards to updates to the Linden Home Covenant, we will be sharing this feedback with our Land Team so that they can review further and see if any adjustments or additions to the Covenant need to be made. With that said, if people are seeking to make modifications to their home that are outside the scope of what is allowed on Linden Home regions they may want to consider exploring other land options that would enable more freedom of what they can do.

Thank you all again for your feedback and for sharing your concerns!
 

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I wonder if someone will make a pass through the add-ons that are popping up on Marketplace, because slanted roofs are being sold there, and I've seen them being used in world. It seems a shame that people are wasting their money, unaware that they are not going to be allowed to use their purchase.

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To add onto what Sylvia is pointing out, I want to point out that there does not appear to me to be any intent on the part of most Newbrooke add-on makers to "stretch the limits".  I think, with this theme, you'll see a lot of add-ons created that violate LL's aesthetic, but that appear to their makers (or buyers) to be perfectly in-theme.  For example, this addon seems to me to have pretty clean lines, uses LL textures, roof is black with lighter outline just like the homes.  I wouldn't buy it, because to my eyes it has a kind of "stuck on" look to it, seems to me that a real house with this roof would be cathedraled inside up to it.  But I would never have suspected that it was out of theme.  Perhaps the LH wiki descriptions could be enhanced to mention some of the defining characteristics of each theme?  Nothing like "flat black roof" is mentioned in Newbrooke's wiki description, for example.

790724583_bradburyroof.JPG.d0e105b224386234fc097fbea358d1c8.JPG

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I can please ask why the Bowling Alley got returned yet the Embassy in Dooright remains?  I've landed homes next to it three times now, and today I now notice that they have a Putin figure partly naked in jail upstairs in full view of the neighborhood.  This whole situation is bad enough in real life without having to look at him in Second Life too! 

Screen Shot 2022-03-09 at 22.19.24.png

Edited by Fleur Aurelia
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After I got my talking to from the LHHOA Building Inspector, I was not about to push any boundaries again, sometimes it's very difficult to control art, sometimes it controls the artist, and it does get out of control. Art can be very dangerous. 

This would be a perfect pitch for a new community virtual show, I think Patch mentioned something like this during an interview. I'm seeing something like The Residents Court with The Honorable Judge                      (Fill In Black) (i'm seeing Punky, order... you are you out of order! I will have order!!) lots of bleeping, could settle neighbor disputes and such. That would be great and get those clicks.

I was talking with my Mom earlier today about the whispers ~bowling sandal and the SL forums and she plays more of the management style games and Sims 4, she says the Sims forum is pretty much lawless and they don't care about their product at all. "they will release defective bugged content packs and everyone complains but no one ever fixes them, and they rely on their players to provide debugs." I was like wow, I guess we're lucky in Second Life to have a team that that at least makes an effort to be part of the community and freely communicates with us and does fix problems. 

I think we can all learn to communicate better, it's hard to control emotion sometimes. I felt bad when I got busted I kinda knew I shouldn't and after I took time from their team to explain to me my mistake I felt bad and had no desire to push the boundary because I was face to face with that cliff. I'm a fan, I don't want to be a trouble maker. 

I like this a lot. Very wise words. 

2 hours ago, Abnor Mole said:

And right now I'm thinking to myself that I can close this thread, but should I? I don't want to. I want to leave it open in the spirit of the title above.. communication. So what I'll do instead is ask all of you reading this to just do the same. You can comment (unless things so sideways as a few threads already have), but ask yourself if you should comment before hitting the submit button. Is what you are saying in the spirit of fostering civil discourse or in derailing it.

and this. 

2 hours ago, Kristin Linden said:

If you have an idea that you want to collaborate with us on, such as other groups have done in the past. You should reach out to Derrick or Patch directly to discuss it with them. I believe this should answer your first question.

You won't find that sort of communication from other places. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Fleur Aurelia said:

I can please ask why the Bowling Alley got returned yet the Embassy in Dooright remains?  I've landed homes next to it three times now, and today I now notice that they have a Putin figure partly naked in jail upstairs in full view of the neighborhood.  This whole situation is bad enough in real life without having to look at him in Second Life too! 

Screen Shot 2022-03-09 at 22.19.24.png

 

Have you AR'd it? Governance can't be everywhere at once; they count on us to let them know when something needs to be checked out.

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10 minutes ago, Fleur Aurelia said:

I can please ask why [...] Putin figure partly naked in jail upstairs in full view of the neighborhood [...]

I am not sure why you need to ask about that at all? I find the covenant pretty clear on that: "Activities and/or displaying items that could be construed by Linden Lab as political campaigning is not permitted in Bellisseria." It has always been said here multiple times that if we spot something that most likely should not be in Bellisseria, we shall just report it. The tools are there, why not using it? 🤷‍♀️

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31 minutes ago, Fleur Aurelia said:

I can please ask why the Bowling Alley got returned yet the Embassy in Dooright remains?  I've landed homes next to it three times now, and today I now notice that they have a Putin figure partly naked in jail upstairs in full view of the neighborhood.  This whole situation is bad enough in real life without having to look at him in Second Life too! 

Screen Shot 2022-03-09 at 22.19.24.png

This is outstanding! I Will tell him to get his shirt on asap. Then i Will draw the curtains 😰👀

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6 hours ago, yestothis said:

How hard is it for Lindens to have an official Bellisseria group?

Probably quite hard, but I'll leave it to others to talk about the technical issues that arise when groups have tens of thousands of members.

As a resident, I wouldn't have minded landing next door to the bowling alley. I wouldn't mind landing next to someone with a tasteful roof add-on. I wouldn't love landing next door to a protest site, but rather than AR it I'd just re-roll until I got somewhere I liked better. I didn't adore being next door to someone who put a prim box on top of their houseboat to house their freebie sexbed, but hey, it was 2019 and I just had to suck it up and deal. If you'd told me then that tasteful roof add-ons under the 15m mark would end up getting returned I wouldn't have believed you. I've AR'd people for putting eleventy billion dragon eggs with hovertext on the front lawn of their chalet and floating a swimming pool in midair above their log cabin, but nobody did anything about the naked animesh dancer somebody thought fit to plop outside their Trad. (It wasn't that far from the beach, so obviously counted as in theme.)

I mostly feel that Patch made a spur-of-the-moment error of judgement in returning the roof and the other exterior decor attached to it, and if we just have the patience to wait a couple of months for everyone to be distracted by the next shiny, people will have as much freedom in Newbrooke as they have with the other themes.

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I've mostly been afraid to comment further on this subject for fear I look like an instigator of trouble or a vessel for "disdain" and/or whatever else has been implied. I already feel badly enough. I want to state here again, that Abnor Mole was nice to me when he messaged about my roof. He did not return it. He let me know the pitch was the issue and I thanked him and quickly flattened it. I 100% believed at that point that the pitched roof was the issue, thus I was not "pushing boundaries" or being inconsiderate to neighbors when I left the flattened version there. I was surprised the next day when half my build was returned with no warning or explanation. I do feel very badly that this has blown up into this big issue. I keep asking myself how I could have done better in this situation? I think I did ok. My heart was 100% in the right place.

I by no means want to be seen as a troublemaker or someone calling people out to "further sow discord."

I do want to feel I have the freedom to question rules that don't make sense to me or ask for clarification or even vent frustrations when I feel a need to. I am a paying customer, and like a lot of SL residents, I invest a lot into my hobby and experience here. I have often said, that my time in SL and the money I spend here is precious and not in vast supply, thus I choose to waste both wisely. I am not going to pick up my stuff and move out of Belli if I "don't like the rules." I get a premium home with my subscription, and if I do not like the rules, I won't go and purposely break them, but I will question them and hope for better change.

This issue raised a lot of questions and for a lot of people and as we have all seen, it doesn't seem to be going away no matter how many threads are locked. Residents are asking for clear communication. No one wants to break the rules and upset everyone. It's a lot easier to be law-abiding when you clearly understand what the law is.

Lastly, I know I am probably written down in the Linden Lil Black Book as the Belli B**ch who caused the New Theme Drama of 2022, but I am actually a very nice person. I do not have a quick temper, and have no bad blood with anyone, and I am open to respectful conversation on many topics. I chuckled to myself when I just typed this last line, but that is how the Linden reaction to this has made a paying customer feel. I think we can ALL do better.

I hope this post is seen in the spirit of good will in which it is intended.

 

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Honestly, given some of what I see as pretty extreme add-ons to some of the other Themes, I was surprised on this one -- the roof thing, that is.  Now that it has been explained, I do understand it and don't really have any issues with that aspect.  However, it does leave me wondering about the add-ons that made Traditionals look like Victorians.  Those are very, very much changing the basic look of that Theme.  Ditto with the add-ons that changed Houseboats to completely look like regular houses.  I think that is where some of the frustration comes from, since it does seem somewhat inconsistent.

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6 hours ago, Yukiko Yeshto said:

I am not sure why you need to ask about that at all? I find the covenant pretty clear on that: "Activities and/or displaying items that could be construed by Linden Lab as political campaigning is not permitted in Bellisseria." It has always been said here multiple times that if we spot something that most likely should not be in Bellisseria, we shall just report it. The tools are there, why not using it? 🤷‍♀️

I've been wandering around the Victorian Bellisserian regions lately as I decided on new homes for myself and Alycia. (Yes, she's actually getting a house of her own, but has to share it with Evan, my guy alt.) While exploring I came across a house described as an Adult sex club. There was nothing of that sort visible on the ground, but even so I thought that doesn't belong in in Bellisseria.  I didn't know how to report it though. In case I come across something like this again, how would I go about reporting it?

(Btw, Alycia's house is perfect, a Shelley in black. Mine is going to be a Shelley in lavender. With an upstairs bathroom add-an, each house will have 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, and 3 downstairs rooms, so 2 avatars for each house. They're both going to be near the ocean. I'm still trying to get Persephone's house closer to the ocean and to Alycia's house.)

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38 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

In case I come across something like this again, how would I go about reporting it?

You first would look at the Adult Content FAQ and determine if the conditions are met that allow adult content on a moderate region. If not, you would AR the land owner. In this particular case, "a house described as an Adult sex club" might be considered advertising, which is not allowed.

Edited by syndi Pearl
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  • Moles
17 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I've been wandering around the Victorian Bellisserian regions lately as I decided on new homes for myself and Alycia. (Yes, she's actually getting a house of her own, but has to share it with Evan, my guy alt.) While exploring I came across a house described as an Adult sex club. There was nothing of that sort visible on the ground, but even so I thought that doesn't belong in in Bellisseria.  I didn't know how to report it though. In case I come across something like this again, how would I go about reporting it?

I guess the question is (at least by my understanding), is it just a private use place for the owner and their friends with a cheeky name in the parcel description? Or is it something with adult content being purposefully open/aimed/marketed toward the general public (even though parcels in Bellisseria showing in search is blocked at the estate level)? You can AR any of the objects on the parcel owned by the parcel owner and Governance would be best at making that determination. 

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4 hours ago, Sparkle Bunny said:

if we just have the patience to wait a couple of months for everyone to be distracted by the next shiny, people will have as much freedom in Newbrooke as they have with the other themes.

I was kind of thinking the same thing, but I've noticed the same trend when I travel as mentioned by the design team, I will notice one home having a neat mod that totally changes the exterior of the home, and then I will notice almost every surrounding home having the same mod? I never used a prefab home mod before, I usually create my own little stuff. It's pretty much a plague of same home mods. I'm all for capitalism, but capitalists can't expect to push a product and not expect anyone to notice how it changes an entire themes core design. Maybe there should be an exterior building mod approval process, vs having a neighbor see something neat another neighbor did and purchase the same and then have a massive recall. Maybe in the covenant something like this: If you would like to sell exterior home add ons, please find, fill in, and forward the notecard in the content pack along with a copy of your design to                           , please make sure a copy of the model is forwarded. Please allow us time to review your model and once reviewed, we will fill in the part of the notecard indicating approval status. If not approved, please do not be discouraged, we'll include reasons why and offer suggestions, if suggestions are taken and model is modified, please resubmit a revised copy of your model along with this notecard.

Something like that would prolly result in less:

 

elvira.jpg

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8 hours ago, Paulsian said:

This would be a perfect pitch for a new community virtual show, I think Patch mentioned something like this during an interview. I'm seeing something like The Residents Court with The Honorable Judge                      (Fill In Black) (i'm seeing Punky, order... you are you out of order! I will have order!!) lots of bleeping, could settle neighbor disputes and such. That would be great and get those clicks.

I have to share the vision, it keeps repeating and I can't stop it. Okay so Punky says to the defendant, "and you are?" the lady replys: "Mrs. Mia Wallace." (Punky looks confused). Punky then asks the plaintiff: "And your name Sir?" The lady answers for him in a deep voice: "Vincent Vega." (Punky rolls his eyes). Punky: "okay.. lets here it.. ((music starts playing)) the defendant and plaintiff start dancing. (Punky has a what the looks, rolls his eyes and slams the gavel before the 15 second music copyright protection kicks in). "You are out of order, your case is dismissed!" Bailiff ________, please remove them from my court room. 

sorry little off topic. 

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8 hours ago, Yukiko Yeshto said:

I am not sure why you need to ask about that at all? I find the covenant pretty clear on that: "Activities and/or displaying items that could be construed by Linden Lab as political campaigning is not permitted in Bellisseria." It has always been said here multiple times that if we spot something that most likely should not be in Bellisseria, we shall just report it. The tools are there, why not using it? 🤷‍♀️

I asked because there's a BBB stamp terminal there and my thinking was that they'd passed it as within the covenant rules before they'd given the terminal and stamp... and as they have links to the Lindens and Moles it was all deemed as acceptable.  

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