Ladies and Gay Guys: Do you think this guy is handsome?

[LittleMe Jewell]

And what about Bi Guys that don't feel like the Gay qualifier fits them?  I know a few that do insist on that distinction.

Edited March 9, 2022 by LittleMe Jewell

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

No no, no resemblance at all, except dark hair. The prince guy is poncy. THIS guy is dreamy.

Um, Lindal, please can we not use terms like "poncy"? They are freighted with all sorts of homophobic subtexts.

Yes, yes, I'm being all "PC" -- but really, honestly, it's just about being considerate. It's about not using language that carries for many extremely insulting associations and meanings. There are other ways to express this idea that don't make it sound as though we've forgotten the last 40 years of work in accepting gay men for who they are.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra
Typo

[Rowan Amore]

*sighs

[Luna Bliss]

50 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

pansies

nasty gay slur   

[Madelaine McMasters]

26 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

But Smith was, of course, talking about physical "hardness," which is, for reasons I don't need to explain, particularly desirable in a male partner, regardless of one's sexual orientation.

Hmmm.

I think you do need to explain, though you probably already know I won't buy your explanation (perhaps on more than one level).

[Scylla Rhiadra]

15 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Hmmm.

I think you do need to explain, though you probably already know I won't buy your explanation (perhaps on more than one level).

😳

[Silent Mistwalker]

Helloooooo. THIS is a pansy people. It's a flower not a human being ffs.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Silent Mistwalker

[Ajay McDowwll]

15 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Helloooooo. THIS is a pansy people. It's a flower not a human being ffs.

From Miriam Webster:

Quote

Definition of pansy

 (Entry 1 of 2)

1 : a garden plant (Viola wittrockiana) derived chiefly from the hybridization of the European Johnny-jump-up (Viola tricolor) with other wild violets also : its flower

2a offensive : a weak or effeminate man or boy —used as a term of abuse and disparagement

b offensive : a gay man —used as a term of abuse and disparagement

It is a very common slur against gay men specifically and men who don't meet some arbitrary standard of masculinity in general.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

20 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Helloooooo. THIS is a pansey people. It's a flower not a human being ffs.

Silent, I'm sorry . . . but Luna is right on this. Please, you were NOT suggesting that the gentleman in question is a member of the genus/species Viola × wittrockiana.

I offer you a definition from the American Merriam-Webster dictionary:

          pansy (adjective) --
          offensive
          : effeminate sense 1
          also : gay —used as a term of abuse and disparagement

And from the British Oxford English Dictionary:

          b. A homosexual man; an effeminate man; a weakling. Frequently derogatory.

 

This is not a new usage: examples in the OED go back to the 1920s.

I can find similar entries in both dictionaries for the term “poncy.”

I get that it sometimes seems difficult and annoying to find that terms one has been using without any intention of implying a derogatory or insulting connotation are now accepted to be doing that.

I’ve been “caught out” using terms myself that are now understood to be insulting. I thanked those who corrected me, and stopped using them – not because I am afraid of the PC Police, but because I don’t want to be insulting or inconsiderate if I can at all avoid being so.

It’s a learning process, and no one expects everyone to get it right all the time, or at first. But for it to be a learning process, one has to first acknowledge the justness of the criticism.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra
Format

[Rowan Amore]

It's no wonder why people have stopped communicating with each other.

[Madelaine McMasters]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

It's no wonder why people have stopped communicating with each other.

I still enjoy trying.

Any of you are better than Snugs.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

It's no wonder why people have stopped communicating with each other.

This cuts both ways, doesn't it?

If someone calls me a "ho" or a "b*tch," regardless of their understanding of those words, they've done a pretty good job of making communication with me a whole lot harder.

I'll repeat -- the point of being careful about the language we use isn't to impose a set of "rules" -- it's to make communication better and easier because we're using language that doesn't also imply negative stereotypes.

And the point of correcting people -- gently, so, one would hope -- is not to revel in "gotcha" moments. It's to make communication easier for them, and ensure that they are not unintentionally alienating or insulting people when they speak.

I don't believe that either of the people addressed above are homophobic. I think they are using outdated language without thinking about the implications and impacts of that.

And I also firmly believe that both are caring enough that they will learn from it.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

 

I don't believe that either of the people addressed above are homophobic. I think they are using outdated language without thinking about the implications and impacts of that.

And I also firmly believe that both are caring enough that they will learn from it.

When someone uses outdated language, I take into consideration who they are first.  Granted, a new forum poster doesn't know anyone here so that might be an issue.

I'm sure we all recall the truly offensive posts that were somewhat directed at me.  I also received a few offline IMs from them.  I was called pretty much every derogatory name in the book.  Was I offended?  Not in the least.  Even if you, yourself, called be a dumb n*****, I wouldn't be offended.  Why?  Although I've come to "know" some of you through these forums, your opinion of me, in the scope of my life, doesn't matter.  If anyone I don't know or consider a close friend, uses any type of derogatory term against ME personally, I don't care.  I simply don't.  I don't have the time or inclination in my life to care how people choose to talk about me.

However, I will usually not even bother talking about some groups using the extended alphabet description since I'm sure it would offend someone because I missed a specific letter.  It's mind boggling.

Bottom line...what you or anyone here says about me or the words you use to do so has no impact or implication in my life.  Period.  Something mom taught me years ago.

 

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

40 minutes ago, Ajay McDowwll said:

From Miriam Webster:

It is a very common slur against gay men specifically and men who don't meet some arbitrary standard of masculinity in general.

I am fully aware; however, in the context I used the word it was not a slur. I was not referring to gay men at all. I don't care what other people try to claim. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

42 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Silent, I'm sorry . . . but Luna is right on this. Please, you were NOT suggesting that the gentleman in question is a member of the genus/species Viola × wittrockiana.

I offer you a definition from the American Merriam-Webster dictionary:

          pansy (adjective) --
          offensive
          : effeminate sense 1
          also : gay —used as a term of abuse and disparagement

And from the British Oxford English Dictionary:

          b. A homosexual man; an effeminate man; a weakling. Frequently derogatory.

 

This is not a new usage: examples in the OED go back to the 1920s.

I can find similar entries in both dictionaries for the term “poncy.”

I get that it sometimes seems difficult and annoying to find that terms one has been using without any intention of implying a derogatory or insulting connotation are now accepted to be doing that.

I’ve been “caught out” using terms myself that are now understood to be insulting. I thanked those who corrected me, and stopped using them – not because I am afraid of the PC Police, but because I don’t want to be insulting or inconsiderate if I can at all avoid being so.

It’s a learning process, and no one expects everyone to get it right all the time, or at first. But for it to be a learning process, one has to first acknowledge the justness of the criticism.

CONTEXT  

I DID NOT USE THE WORD IN THE CONTEXT PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO CLAIM.

END OF STORY.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

Bottom line...what you or anyone here says about me or the words you use to do so has no impact or implication in my life.  Period.  Something mom taught me years ago.

That's legitimately wonderful. I'm glad to hear it: I don't want to think of you being hurt.

I am not personally offended by terms like "pansy" or "poncy": they just don't apply to me. They don't "hurt" me.

But I recognize that they are offensive and hurtful to others -- and it's not my place to tell them that they should just "toughen up" and "accept it." 

And such language does sometimes (although not, I think, in the present case) signify underlying bigotry and hatred that does need to be confronted directly -- or change doesn't happen.

[Madelaine McMasters]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'll repeat -- the point of being careful about the language we use isn't to impose a set of "rules" -- it's to make communication better and easier because we're using language that doesn't also imply negative stereotypes.

Yep. It becomes even more complex when you introduce humor into a community of peoples of widely varying backgrounds. Humor that involves simile, metaphor, analogy, irony,  juxtaposition, often to poke and prod at language and stereotypes.

That we actually pull this off sometimes is pretty impressive. I get an owie now and then, but learning to run through the woods at night with friends has always been more fun than just running through the woods at night with friends.

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Even if you, yourself, called be a dumb n*****, I wouldn't be offended. 

So there's also no reason for me to say I think you're neat, cuz you won't be flattered?

Damn you!

[Ajay McDowwll]

6 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I am fully aware; however, in the context I used the word it was not a slur. I was not referring to gay men at all. I don't care what other people try to claim. 

Silent, I was really *really* careful to just address the terminology, not you, and I'm sorry that didn't come across clearly, or that I was ineffectual in my attempt.

It's a word that I hadn't related to being a slur against the gay community until a couple of years ago, when a friend (who happened to be gay) called me out on it.  I was shocked, because I'd used it totally innocently, but then I thought about how it was used in general, and looked it up...

... and also the reality of how they felt about it.  They were right.

This was strictly about the term, and not at all an indictment of you personally.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Ajay McDowwll said:

It's a word that I hadn't related to being a slur against the gay community until a couple of years ago, when a friend (who happened to be gay) called me out on it.  I was shocked, because I'd used it totally innocently, but then I thought about how it was used in general, and looked it up...

... and also the reality of how they felt about it.  They were right.

This ^^^ has probably happened to all of us at one time or another.

And my guess is that one of your first responses, Ajay, was like mine: distress at having unintentionally hurt or insulted someone.

I really don't like hurting people. Any new information that helps prevent that from happening is good and welcome information.

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

 

So there's also no reason for me to say I think you're neat, cuz you won't be flattered?

Damn you!

Gosh, everyone likes a compliment!   

Not everyone is offended by words.

 

I've actually called both my husband and son pansies because they make me kill the spider.  I certainly didn't mean they were acting gay.  The were acting more like this definition of the word...

A person who is weak and hyper sensitive, often acting like everything is a bigger problem than it actually is, and in most cases, beats themselves up over stupid things

[Ajay McDowwll]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This ^^^ has probably happened to all of us at one time or another.

And my guess is that one of your first responses, Ajay, was like mine: distress at having unintentionally hurt or insulted someone.

I really don't like hurting people. Any new information that helps prevent that from happening is good and welcome information.

That was exactly my response, Scylla.  I was absolutely horrified and mortified... shoot, I'm active with our local Pride group, and I hadn't even put the term with the pejorative context together until it was brought to my attention.  I have friends and family members I could have offended, and may have in the past although they didn't bring it to my attention.  I'm glad someone finally did say something so I could just stop already.

Totally facepalm moment for me, and then some.

[Myntz Mysterious]

9 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

because they make me kill the spider

Are you for higher? 😲

[LittleMe Jewell]

Well, I will say that when I read the term 'pansy' in the thread, the first thing I thought of was this definition:  "a weak or effeminate man or boy", but in regards to men in general, not specifically gay men.

When looking it up, Webster has it phrased like this (in addition to the part about it being offensive to gay men):

I do view it as a negative connotation about men in general.  I have used the term around family & friends, and when I do I am using it (intentionally) as a negative description of someone (yes, I am not always a nice sweet person).  However, knowing its other uses, I've only ever used it as a negative towards non-gay men.  

 

[BeckyHolbrook]

7 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Not my type in the slightest. Unless... he's secretly in an industrial rock band or something. And grows his hair out. Then maybe. 

I can't stand the Prince Charming archetype in general, though, so I'm definitely the wrong one to be answering this.

 

Emma Swan! 🤩 

I hope nobody minds. I just came across this public post and couldn't help but leave my 2c about the Savior, Greatest Light and Dark One as she was called. Complex paradox but you know what they say "enlightenment is about making the darkness conscious" ♥ I found her inspiring as a single Mom (shout out to all single moms! the toughest job out there♥) and she fought through so much darkness. Even though she was an unhealthy obsession of the Evil Queen for a little while (EQ was an independent thinker and changed for the better once she realized she could destroy the contemptuous side inside her for good. This made her see things more clearly and live a happier life back in Storybrooke. In addition, she and Emma ended up being good mates in the end so its all good). It was concerning when Emma was consumed by all the darkness but she eventually acquired the enhanced traits of augmented strength, agility, durability, fighting skills and last but not least eternal unaging life which I call the power of infinite resilience. She literally said to the dark force: "You cannot break me" ♥ My favorite scene was when the Fairy ordered Gideon (I think he was under a spell otherwise he would have known better to not partake in such a corrupt act) to take Emma out. She couldn't hurt an innocent person so she sacrificed herself, sticking to her values till the end, folks. I thought that was pretty cool. She was fair and kind, no matter what but I think some people misunderstood her or made their own perceptions about her based on limited info and what other people said like the Fairy who was disturbingly good at controlling people as her puppets to do her dirty work. This isn't the best synopsis of the entire show but definitely worth a watch (Apologies, the " outdated" academic in me wrote a whole character analysis, lol. Now I'm off! Cheers! 🙂♥)

[Kalegthepsionicist]

17 hours ago, Aiyumei said:

Doesn't look manly enough for my taste. You can tell by that innocent look and soft hands that he's never had to do any hard labor that builds up men and defines them as what they are, the stronger gender.

I'll pass.