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Ok My Bowling alley became the next victim of the Linden send backs.  I'm honestly not surprised but I thought i would send out a subtle warning with all those with public places.  Seems like things are harsher.

 

I have plans now to reduce my spending in Second Life by half.  I'll likely only keep 1 possibly two homes in Bellisseria.

Community has been fun as Eva as Slenderman as Squirrel but its just not the welcoming friendly place it was at the beginning.

No hard feelings to anyone not even people i don't get along with.  My disappointment is 100% with Linden Labs.

 

❤️ Eva

Ending well and forgiving my enemies

Edited by Evangeline Ling
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Bummer.  I could see them engaging to see if you could shrink the build, but I gather they just returned it with no interaction?  

I'm surprised Patch was willing to lose the community you built around the SLendy RP without having Abnor make any attempt to negotiate an acceptable bowling alley build.  Difficult to interpret. Or maybe not.

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 Honestly. it's the most invested people who drive the community in SL for everyone else. 

 

This is just soul crushing.

Edited by Coffee Pancake
the it's > it's the .. yaaay lisdexia !
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That was yours lol (sorry not funny towards the situation, kewl meeting the artist), was sick (in good way) That was literally the first home I noticed from josie banks when I first looked at the new theme. It stopped me in my tracks and made me cam the carpet (very neat carpet).

Sorry LHHOA didn't allow it, don't feel too bad, something similar happened to me too. I like to push the boundaries and deal with the wrath of judgement, and looks like you do as well. It hurts but you'll get over it. That model will live on though photos. Don't be afraid to push the boundaries in the future worse they can do is reject it. :) (it's part of the conditioning process) We all eventually learn to tolerate rejection, even if it is of our own doings. In the olden days that would be called a happening, they are neat but only last for a brief time. 

Funny story, the build I got busted on (only because my house boat had a giant 60 meter mast (it was huge) ) had a bowling alley under water. Ironic. my bowling balls looked like squid and they floated. Very strange. I'm getting bowling conspiracy vibes now. Wonders how many other bowlers got busted. 

Just for the record, when it happened to me someone was coming around my linden home harassing me about this and that not being allowed, not a linden or mole. I was like please leave me alone I'm familiar with the linden conditions. It was just a mast, but it was over 15 meters I supposed, but I got it because the boat was not a moving vessel and the mast was not something strange. 

My build was not instant returned. I received a very professional message from a mole explaining the situation and let me know what I could keep and what I needed to modify to stay in compliance. 

If my work had been auto returned without explanation or opportunity to save my work, I would have been very very very very angry, sad, and disappointed.

Sorry that happened to you. Sincerely. 

Edited by Paulsian
after thought
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2 hours ago, Nika Talaj said:

Bummer.  I could see them engaging to see if you could shrink the build, but I gather they just returned it with no interaction?  

I wondered that too. The roof in the back was pitched. I did noticed that If it was flat I could see it being okay? Maybe the signage was bit out of theme and could have been little less? It worked though. I was not disgusted by it at all. The only homes I've ever reported were for purposely alienating the region with super bright local lighting that looked like spot lights shinning into other homes extremely. They were not even my neighbors but lot of people do not realize it or flashing strobing lights to get people to move. That's just me running around and like oh no they don't and those never seem to receive the swift action from AR for land encroachment. If it was me personally with a strobe going into my home alone I would turn off local lights, when I see it going into every home in the neighborhood and the about land has something like this is my vacation home and I'm never home. and after weeks go by and I don't see a resolution, I start to wonder what the process is behind the scenes looks like when it comes to LH ARs.  

Care and Consistency. Are the ARs being forwarded and reviewed for quality is what I wonder sometimes.

SL is so passionate about being virtual and working in a virtual environment, but when it comes to abuse reports and punishing residents they don't seem to take advantage of that ability. It is not difficult to schedule a meeting with a resident to have a conversation about things lindens, moles, & moderators have concerns about, weather it be behavior, building, dress code, ratings ARs. Just spamming residents with the tos without quoting the exact violation is heartless sometimes. And banning people and art without having a conversation first to find a more civil resolution via clarity and caring is not worthy of the Linden Lab brand. Residents think highly of Linden Lab and Second Life or once did and if they are lucky find a way their way back because we believe in LL and know they might just need a conversation about how we see things from the residents point of view sometimes. Virtual decency is not a written rule. No matter how horrible we feel we are treated sometimes we know in our hearts someone at LL cares about us as much as the community does. 

Edited by Paulsian
mindless rant
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This is terrible.

I guess I can understand why you are finally leaving Bellisseria now, or pretty much with your public installations.

I just wish you would consider putting them on the Mainland?

No sense in having your soul crushed in Belli.

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That is so sad @Evangeline Ling, you mean so much to Bellisseria. I guess I'll be dismanteling my cafè too...

I've been in the corporate world for 20 years, and I've never seen a product with so much potential being managed in such a reactive and defensive way; there is no strategic approach here whatsoever.

Bellisseria WAS a community and they have turned it into a bunch of pixel houses.

Edited by Elena Core
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7 hours ago, Evangeline Ling said:

I have plans now to reduce my spending in Second Life by half.  I'll likely only keep 1 possibly two homes in Bellisseria.

Ending well and forgiving my enemies

Very confused as to how just having 1 or 2 homes in Bellisseria is "leaving" or how you think that reducing your spending by "half" will in any way hurt LL?

You had fair warning that this would probably happen. Bellisseria is a residential area. While your bowling alley was cute, in a retro kind of way, if I had rolled a house that had a line of vision to it I would have not been happy.  Imagine if 300 other people decided to put out builds like this all over Bellisseria and they had no building skills whatsoever? 

I think allowing them in other regions in the first place was a very bad corporate decision.  Of course now to be fair to you LL needs to remove all commercial type builds from Bellisseria.  They need to give ample warning to those so that they are able to save them. Maybe a  *10 day warning*?

The lesson here is that money doesn't always "talk" as you posted before. Threatening, blackmailing and whining rarely works, especially since you are not really leaving. You are still spending more money than most people in SL and still right in Bellisseria.  

 

Edited by Sam1 Bellisserian
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I have had some big add-ons to the Traditionals. Because I wanted a big livingroom.

And if it is the roof that is the issue, why do they allow flat roofs for themes with pitched roofs? I have seen add-ons on the market that is not even trying to use same kind of windows and doors as the theme. Like modern builds with a flat roof and big windows in the Victorian parts.

Before I make an add-on to another house, I want to know what to avoid. @Abnor Mole

  1.  - Is all add-ons banned in Newbrooke?
  2.  - Was it only the roof? Only 100% flat roofs allowed?
  3. - Was the add-on too big? Is it a new rule, stay a specific distance away from the border?
  4.  - Was it because it was a bowling alley? If yes, what is allowed? Cafe, gallery, bakery? Please tell.
  5. - Is roof gardens allowed, and stairs up? Must a certain % of the roof texture be visible and not covered by planters, rugs, gravel etc..etc..?
  6. - Is helicopter pads allowed? (Not that I want one, but good to know)
  7. - Is the rules used in Newbrooke going to apply in all of Bellisseria?

Would the add-on example that I used for Traditionals in a previous home be returned? Because of the windows, roof with windows or its size? It was inside the border with 50 cm, the roof ends did not cross over. The parasol is the moles.

Bellisseria transforming a sand parcel

 

Edited by Marianne Little
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5 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

I think allowing them in other regions in the first place was a very bad corporate decision.  Of course now to be fair to you LL needs to remove all commercial type builds from Bellisseria.  They need to give ample warning to those so that they are able to save them. Maybe a  *10 days warning*?

This post is about the point over.

What about creators who sold add-ons? Some is very costly, like the fake Victorians for Traditionals. We are talking about thosands of L. I bet it is money they have spent.

The creators will have angry customers demanding their money back.

Or what if the creators continue to keep their builds on the Marketplace? Should their add-ons not be removed fram the Marketplace if they violate the covenant?

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15 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Very confused as to how just having 1 or 2 homes in Bellisseria is "leaving" or how you think that reducing your spending by "half" will in any way hurt LL?

 

Evangeline's contribution to Bellisseria goes beyond houses. Linden Lab has just lost an ambassador of one of its key product

 

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  • Moles
Posted (edited)

We have always welcomed cafes, pubs, etc.... all sorts of public facing non-commercial type faux-businesses in Bellisseria. Always with the caveat that they be done in a style that is within the theme and does not disrupt the residential feel of the neighborhoods. That has always been true from the very beginning.

That's the trouble with pushing the boundaries. Eventually you find out where they are. 

Edited by Abnor Mole
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One of my alts got a Newbrooke house close to the an Embassy for Peace (might not be the exact name but you get the gist) and I abandoned as I wasn't keen on the exterior decor and nor did I want to be bothered with ambassadors coming and going and having meetings with their bureaucrats, or the installation of a terminal to stamp passports which would mean more traffic.  Should I have AR'd it as it wasn't in the style of the neighborhood and imo it would have caused disruption?

Edited by Fleur Aurelia
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8 hours ago, Evangeline Ling said:

Ok My Bowling alley became the next victim of the Linden send backs.  I'm honestly not surprised but I thought i would send out a subtle warning with all those with public places.  Seems like things are harsher.

 

I have plans now to reduce my spending in Second Life by half.  I'll likely only keep 1 possibly two homes in Bellisseria.

Community has been fun as Eva as Slenderman as Squirrel but its just not the welcoming friendly place it was at the beginning.

No hard feelings to anyone not even people i don't get along with.  My disappointment is 100% with Linden Labs.

 

❤️ Eva

Ending well and forgiving my enemies

I am so sorry this happened. I ran across your bowling alley and loved it, I was looking forward to spending time there, since I love to bowl in RL and in SL. It's a pity, that we can't have places to hang out in. Sorry also to see you go. Best wishes!

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I just read Patch's comments in the other thread discussing this and my understanding is, that this is about trying to be clearer about where the boundaries lie, and how we interpret the restrictions.
Going forward, if there are genuinely more resources put into policing infractions, then this is what will have the greatest effect on the feelings of unfairness that the current situation has created.
My view is, that residents new and old will take look around to see what others do, and use that experience to interpret the rules. That is the primary way that most people understand rules, by copying others, not by legally dissecting covenants.
If current residents have tested the boundaries then this is a completely understandable human reaction to a confusing lack of apparent consistency in applying the rules.
I personally, can more easily lose the creative builds, no matter how well done, if it means also getting rid of the hideous monstrosities which blight other parts of the continent.
If the thoughtful community focused builds are targeted and we still have to put up with smoke belching seventies disco traditionals, and so on then, I will be back to thinking that this project isn't really working as planned.

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  • Moles
32 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I have had some big add-ons to the Traditionals. Because I wanted a big livingroom.

And if it is the roof that is the issue, why do they allow flat roofs for themes with pitched roofs? I have seen add-ons on the market that is not even trying to use same kind of windows and doors as the theme. Like modern builds with a flat roof and big windows in the Victorian parts.

Before I make an add-on to another house, I want to know what to avoid. @Abnor Mole

  1.  - Is all add-ons banned in Newbrooke?
  2.  - Was it only the roof? Only 100% flat roofs allowed?
  3. - Was the add-on too big? Is it a new rule, stay a specific distance away from the border?
  4.  - Was it because it was a bowling alley? If yes, what is allowed? Cafe, gallery, bakery? Please tell.
  5. - Is roof gardens allowed, and stairs up? Must a certain % of the roof texture be visible and not covered by planters, rugs, gravel etc..etc..?
  6. - Is helicopter pads allowed? (Not that I want one, but good to know)
  7. - Is the rules used in Newbrooke going to apply in all of Bellisseria?

Would the add-on example that I used for Traditionals in a previous home be returned? Because of the windows, roof with windows or its size? It was inside the border with 50 cm, the roof ends did not cross over. The parasol is the moles.

 

 

These are all questions that are just going to beg more questions and requests for more specifics. If the statement is "Please stay away from the edge if the cliff", the response shouldn't be "Well, how close exactly to the edge in millimeters can we go?" 

We can spend more time enforcing the covenant, constantly looking out for those who want to push the boundaries to see how far they can go. That pulls resources directly from our ability to build and release homes. Or... we can ask people to use their better judgement and not to try to see how close to the cliff they can go and be upset when they find out the hard way. A good rule of thumb is if you're asking yourself if you're going to far, you probably already know the answer.  

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The thing is, at least personally, I don't know where things fall using "better judgment". Gorgeous in-theme tiny slopes are out, which isn't a thing that would have ever occurred to me as being outside the boundary, as an example. Common sense seems to only work here if your ideas line up exactly with the unspoken rules naturally.

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25 minutes ago, Ziggy Starsmith said:

I moved up in the air to a skybox where I can go wild all I want

I've decided to split my allocation between mainland and Bellisseria - I found a fairly nice parcel for cheap on the beach but it is just outside of reach of the water.  Hopefully, I will find a nice little camper near the water tomorrow for my Bellisseria plot.  Over the next few weeks I hope to flip my mainland earn a little linden, and eventually find a nice 512 by the road to cruise around in :) I love Bellisseria, it is a great place, but ultimately I like the chaos of the mainland as well.  I don't mind big blocky builds with mishmatched strange textures I think it is kind of fun to see all of the different styles of creativity next to one another and even having skyboxes floating around is okay with me :) Bellisseria will be my vacation home, when I want to get away from it all and go fishing in the creek.

Edited by Istelathis
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6 minutes ago, Abnor Mole said:

These are all questions that are just going to beg more questions and requests for more specifics. If the statement is "Please stay away from the edge if the cliff", the response shouldn't be "Well, how close exactly to the edge in millimeters can we go?" 

We can spend more time enforcing the covenant, constantly looking out for those who want to push the boundaries to see how far they can go. That pulls resources directly from our ability to build and release homes. Or... we can ask people to use their better judgement and not to try to see how close to the cliff they can go and be upset when they find out the hard way. A good rule of thumb is if you're asking yourself if you're going to far, you probably already know the answer.  

I think that shifting some resource towards better enforcement is a good idea, it improves the quality of the existing housing stock. I'm not sure if everyone shares the desire for thousands more homes with the same problems as before?

Asking people to be reasonable only works when;

a) they are here to be asked, most are not

b) all people are capable of being reasonable

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22 minutes ago, Abnor Mole said:

These are all questions that are just going to beg more questions and requests for more specifics. If the statement is "Please stay away from the edge if the cliff", the response shouldn't be "Well, how close exactly to the edge in millimeters can we go?" 

We can spend more time enforcing the covenant, constantly looking out for those who want to push the boundaries to see how far they can go. That pulls resources directly from our ability to build and release homes. Or... we can ask people to use their better judgement and not to try to see how close to the cliff they can go and be upset when they find out the hard way. A good rule of thumb is if you're asking yourself if you're going to far, you probably already know the answer.  

Abnor, this is my opinion, but to me, the work done by the Moles has never been an issue. The communication strategy from Linden Lab is, and it doesn't just apply to Bellisseria.

There is no clear communication on what is and what is not allowed (because of the many exceptions), what is on the pipeline, the management team's view....

And sorry, uploading content from time to time, chatting inworld through some Belli groups, creating a few posts in a pinned thread, is not working. Everything has to come through official channels, where all residents can have access, and haave an objective neutral approach. 

Many of the issues we are facing as residents come from a lack of communication from LL. 

 

Edited by Elena Core
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