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Orbed for no Reason and no Warning on a Club Listed on the Destination Guide, should the Club be Listed there?


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I was Orbed after a few minutes of my arrival  [at a club] that I accessed via Destination Guide. I met a friend there, he invited me for his HUD, barely said a few words, and I had been there a few years ago, so all I said was "Wow this place changed a lot since I was last here". I was on informal outfit as everyone there and had nothing out of the ordinary. I had no warning, a few minutes after arrival *bang* orbed with no warning. I think it's just wrong to invite someone to your place and then kick him out with no good reason on a forceful way, don't you think? I contacted the owner that spammed me with Job applications, but no answer and also the GM, also no answer and I gave him/her a few good 10 minutes to answer back. Does this happen often on places listed on the Destination Guide? If it does those places need to be reviewed and removed from that list.

Edited by Quartz Mole
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The owners and their minions are the law, the law enforces and judges on their land.
Just like I am on mine and you on yours.
There is no court of appeal.
That is how SL floats.

Edited by Sid Nagy
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1 hour ago, ThorOddinson said:

I was Orbed after a few minutes of my arrival on "xxxxxxx  at http:xxxxxt NOW HIRING !" at http://maps.secondlife.com/xxxxxxx 

better to edit your post and remove the links and names .. it's not allowed to namen and shame, and you give free advertisement for them with sharing all info.

To your post... go somewhere else to spend your time, SL is bigger than that.

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I don't think places should be in the destination guide if they have strict rules on who can be there UNLESS those restrictions are in the description.  It's very unwelcoming to new residents who are told to.use the guide.  

Must be over 30 days, must have mesh avatar, must have POIF, etc on places you tell new residents to go?   Not cool.  Group access also is a no no unless you have it clear upon landing that it's FREE to join and give them a bit of time to do so before tossing them out.

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Don't let one place giving you the kick deter you from finding other places that will most likely be far more pleasant to take part in.

I agree that the Destination Guide needs to be more careful in what places are listed because it can cause a lot of frustration to those new to Second Life. It would be more than frustrating while attempting to learn how to navigate SL being booted from places where the 30 day old rule, etc. wasn't clearly stated. Not very new comer friendly in the slightest. 😕

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I guess in theory the Destination Guide could be customized to automatically present only (self-proclaimed) newcomer-friendly destinations to newcomers, although the "newcomer" status of a visitor doesn't reliably correspond to time since account creation, nor to the number of in-world hours on an account, so that all seems more work than it's worth. Honestly, I don't see the need to list any newcomer-hostile places in the Destination Guide at all—it's not as if there's any dearth of appealing destinations in SL—so if complaining reports can be confirmed, the place should be banned from the Destination Guide for a few years while they get their stuff together.

Is there already a set of guidelines for being considered as a Destination Guide venue? Surely there are some criteria applied in adding a place to the list. Maybe those criteria need some refinement and visibility to applicants if they aren't already.

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3 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I don't see the need to list any newcomer-hostile places in the Destination Guide at all

I don't think a list is warranted but if the destination does have restrictions on who can enter, it should be listed in the description at the very least.  I don't think that's asking too much.  

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Just a little historical reference here. The Destination Guide for years and years hasn't been kept up well.  I am forever "floating in air" or showing up on an abandoned parcel or in someone's home when it was supposed to be a store etc.  So it is certainly possible that the club that you visited was not "the same" club as before.   I have flagged wrong destinations in the past but they weren't fixed in any sort of a timely manner. My own sites that have been in the guide and then closed (seasonal or LEA builds) were in the guide for months after they had exited even though I wrote repeatedly. 

 

As with much of the SL website (again historically and this fed through to Sansar) it is often at the bottom of the todo list.   

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I am with Rowan completely on this one. I don't have a problem with Club owners/land owners banning etc people they don't feel like having or even for minor reasons...like do not like my face? Well go ahead ban me! Your land your rules, but so I have my own land too x3 

But on the destination guide really should just be clubs etc. that are not that strict, many noobies have one set of clothes only and can not dress for certain dresscode for example...or are wearing boxes xD (at least no shoes up their bums anymore) so being on there should mean that everyone is welcome (well except griefers...griefers don't get any cookies :P)

And I really enjoy meeting new people in SL still, and I surely hope they feel as magical and welcome as I felt back then!

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11 hours ago, ThorOddinson said:

I was Orbed after a few minutes of my arrival  [at a club] that I accessed via Destination Guide. I met a friend there, he invited me for his HUD, barely said a few words, and I had been there a few years ago, so all I said was "Wow this place changed a lot since I was last here".

My guess is that this comment caused the owner to think you might be the alt of a previous griefer or troublemaker.  Putting 2 and 2 together and getting 6. Or else they thought that starting a comment with "Wow..." was a bit rude (it's frequently used as an insult). 

Another possibility is that they use the voodoo thing and you've previously been added to the blacklist, in which case your ejection was automated (you likely wouldn't know if you had; very few places use it these days - I know cos I am on the blacklist and it's been years since I was booted from anywhere).

In the first two cases it's over-reacting but I wouldn't necessarily assume that they are ejecting lots of people on a regular basis.  In the latter case, well it's their fault for using such a ridiculous device. 

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I'm quite new to the Forums, as you can see on my Forum Profile, thank you all for the Feedback and yes, I'll try to be more active, there's a lot we can solve by sharing experiences and a lot we can learn here too.

Edited by ThorOddinson
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11 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

better to edit your post and remove the links and names .. it's not allowed to namen and shame, and you give free advertisement for them with sharing all info.

To your post... go somewhere else to spend your time, SL is bigger than that.

They did it for me, I'm not a huge Forum user, had no idea. But thank you so much on the heads up.

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1 hour ago, Maitimo said:

My guess is that this comment caused the owner to think you might be the alt of a previous griefer or troublemaker.  Putting 2 and 2 together and getting 6. Or else they thought that starting a comment with "Wow..." was a bit rude (it's frequently used as an insult). 

Another possibility is that they use the voodoo thing and you've previously been added to the blacklist, in which case your ejection was automated (you likely wouldn't know if you had; very few places use it these days - I know cos I am on the blacklist and it's been years since I was booted from anywhere).

In the first two cases it's over-reacting but I wouldn't necessarily assume that they are ejecting lots of people on a regular basis.  In the latter case, well it's their fault for using such a ridiculous device. 

You don't seriously think a comment like that would trigger a reaction like orbing somone for simple imagining something that's not there and with no warning. No, I did go there under this account, I was even offered a job by the owner personally by then, that I politely declined, so she KNOWS who I am, right? I didn't change User or Screen names, nothing that could trigger a reaction like that. I simply stopped going there because was usually laggy and I didn't like the kind of music they play usually, there was never a conflict between me and any other user there, not that I'm aware, but then again, I'm not a telepath.

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Land owners really don't need an excuse to ban someone. If the owner thinks one should be banned because of having the wrong color of shoe lases, that is settled: then of you go. It only takes one overheated manager or owner with a bad hair day for these things to happen.
It is their land. Their kingdom.

I agree that these type of places should not be in the destination guide. 

Thankfully there are thousands of other sims with clubs on them that one can explore. One down, tons to go.

Edited by Sid Nagy
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1 hour ago, Gwin LeShelle said:

I am with Rowan completely on this one. I don't have a problem with Club owners/land owners banning etc people they don't feel like having or even for minor reasons...like do not like my face? Well go ahead ban me! Your land your rules, but so I have my own land too x3 

But on the destination guide really should just be clubs etc. that are not that strict, many noobies have one set of clothes only and can not dress for certain dresscode for example...or are wearing boxes xD (at least no shoes up their bums anymore) so being on there should mean that everyone is welcome (well except griefers...griefers don't get any cookies :P)

And I really enjoy meeting new people in SL still, and I surely hope they feel as magical and welcome as I felt back then!

Yeah, I was making the Club Route on The Destination Guide, despite I had been there before was a long time ago, so it could even be a new one under the same name. I already found new ones on the last few weeks which I even became a regular member and were friendly. Imagine to land on a place you actually been before years ago and were treated in a friendly way and ended up being orbed on nothing but a wonderment sentence lol. On my land I do have private Areas, but even so, they come with a warning, others are public. I have no special rules of any kind and give fair warning where privacy is required. This was totally out of proportion and had no reason at all. Even if it was a mistake, a simple "I'm Sorry, it was a mistake" would suffice, but no, I was waiting for an answer for whole 10 minutes and absolutly no reply but spam Application Notecards. That's not acceptable.

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13 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Land owners really don't need an excuse to ban someone. If the owner thinks one should be banned because of having the wrong color of shoe lases, so be it.
It is their land. Their kingdom.

I agree that these types should not be in the destination guide.

Thankfully there are thousands of other sims with clubs on them that one can explore. One down, tons to go.

That's true, I do the Route of the Destination Guide for exploring and meet new places and people. On most cases I do have positive experiences. My amazement is landing at a place where I accidentally meet people I'm friends with and never had any querrel of any kind and have that horrid experience.

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13 hours ago, ThorOddinson said:

I was Orbed after a few minutes of my arrival  [at a club] that I accessed via Destination Guide. I met a friend there, he invited me for his HUD, barely said a few words, and I had been there a few years ago, so all I said was "Wow this place changed a lot since I was last here". I was on informal outfit as everyone there and had nothing out of the ordinary. I had no warning, a few minutes after arrival *bang* orbed with no warning. I think it's just wrong to invite someone to your place and then kick him out with no good reason on a forceful way, don't you think? I contacted the owner that spammed me with Job applications, but no answer and also the GM, also no answer and I gave him/her a few good 10 minutes to answer back. Does this happen often on places listed on the Destination Guide? If it does those places need to be reviewed and removed from that list.

This is a resident to resident dispute at best. We do not know who you are, nor do we know if you have a negative history with the place the last time you were there.

We only have your claims that everything is as you say and occurred as such.

Maybe the time you were allowed to visit simply represented the time it took for security to check an external spreadsheet covering moderation on all prior guests and your name came up with a report of a prior incident involving either you and/or your friends and you were sent home without dialog, but that is also just a guess.

Just because a location is on the Destination Guide does not exempt them from security/moderation if needed.

Maybe they could have included better communication along with the moderation as to why you were being sent home, but again, we weren't there so we don't know if/what happened for sure.

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Only times I've been orbed without warning were due to avatar age (which is no longer an issue) or ridiculously low script count limits, though I have got "LAND IMMEDIATLY!" spam when I was flying by a place but it's generally pretty obvious if they have anti-flying features set up.

 

There's generally a place to add a message when you eject someone with most security systems, often telling them which trigger sent them away, but a lot of people don't bother to set it up just like their "greeters" which still hand out LMs to the store that built them and drop focus stealing pop-ups on people driving down the road nowhere near the building.

 

Mine is set to operate invisibly, and only eject (to home, which is generally frowned upon for basic orbs since it tosses you far away instead of just off the parcel, but I have public access with no automatic ban rules so if you get ejected it's because I manually added your name to the list of avatars to toss as far away from my land as possible.) if you have managed to make my avatar blacklist which has like two dozen people on it after a year and only three of those weren't violating the ToS when I banned (and ARed) them.

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10 hours ago, Maitimo said:

My guess is that this comment caused the owner to think you might be the alt of a previous griefer or troublemaker.  Putting 2 and 2 together and getting 6. Or else they thought that starting a comment with "Wow..." was a bit rude (it's frequently used as an insult). 

Another possibility is that they use the voodoo thing and you've previously been added to the blacklist, in which case your ejection was automated (you likely wouldn't know if you had; very few places use it these days - I know cos I am on the blacklist and it's been years since I was booted from anywhere).

In the first two cases it's over-reacting but I wouldn't necessarily assume that they are ejecting lots of people on a regular basis.  In the latter case, well it's their fault for using such a ridiculous device. 

Maybe should've added after  the changed comment is "I like it!"

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Place i used to hang some innocent got booted every time somebody else made staff and got boot rights ,  just to test their new found power .

Happened to me a few times because i was a regular and very tolerant , a test dummy . But it still annoyed me because what does it cost to say hey im gonna test my boot on you ?

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12 hours ago, ThorOddinson said:

You don't seriously think a comment like that would trigger a reaction like orbing somone for simple imagining something that's not there and with no warning. No, I did go there under this account, I was even offered a job by the owner personally by then, that I politely declined, so she KNOWS who I am, right? I didn't change User or Screen names, nothing that could trigger a reaction like that. I simply stopped going there because was usually laggy and I didn't like the kind of music they play usually, there was never a conflict between me and any other user there, not that I'm aware, but then again, I'm not a telepath.

Well then,  I expect it's something you said in a previous visit, or just your general attitude that she doesn't like. 

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If you get orbed for no reason and warning. Chances are others may also get orbed for no reason and warning too. So therefore it doesn't make the place a good place to visit and I personally think places that do that shouldn't be listed on the destination guide. When I was new to Secondlife I used to get kicked from a few places just for being new and it doesn't make a place look good when you end up orbed for no reason. I have also experienced being teleported home without no reason before as well and I just think it makes both the landowner and that place look really bad.

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I'd like to clarify some terms which might be getting confused with each other. There are significant differences between them. It would be helpful to be certain about which is being referred to.

Ejected; Pushed off the parcel onto an adjacent parcel, or just outside the region.

Sent Home; Teleported to your home location (or one of the Hubs, if no home location is set). If driving a vehicle, this will really spoil your day by detaching you from the vehicle (which will eventually end up in your Lost and Found folder). Bad news for some poor soul who has temporarily lost control during a lag spike and run over a parcel boundary, if given no time to recover and get back on the road, for example.

Orbited; Often abbreviated to "orbed". Does this now mean, "attacked by an Orb (a security orb) or actually "orbited"? To be orbited means that you will get forcibly shot up to the SL ceiling. Recovery from this can be difficult; relogging often being the easiest way. "Orbiting" should only be used in RP/Combat situations where everyone is in agreement. Otherwise, it would be considered as griefing.

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