help pls

[mayasharapovaz]

I'm new in SL but come from other metaverse! Me and my friends in other games like The Sims and IMVU used create virtual concert for free and we see many bands and music artist in SL are super cool!

We see many use RL bands logo for SL event.. now my question is..

It's allowed use this TM or Copyright "logo" for free, i asked in SL and many say they are like "fans Art" show and they do for free and any donation they have are used for the show like FanClub/Coverband do in RL! so if we do same just use one logo and do same it's allowed or we can have some problem..?

( this ppl say if you earn RL Money selling  shirts or more maybe problem.. but they say "we sell shirts form cheap with RLLogo like 50L$"(18 cen eu) like RP small store and never change L$ for RL$ and the incoming L$ are less than you spend for the show.. allowed! 

I think they right i dont think there is a problem about that and i dont think RL bands super famous make a problem to 3 4 fans make event like that for fews L$ earned and used from continue the game.. but maybe you all know more and happy to read your ideas and rules from Linden 

thank you

[Rowan Amore]

You should not use copyrighted, trademarked, or celebrity material in Second Life, unless of course you are the intellectual property owner or have permission from the intellectual property owner. Your use of Second Life is subject to applicable copyright, trademark, and right-of-publicity.

Directly from...

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Intellectual_Property

 

[Bree Giffen]

Officially, you cannot use the logo of an RL band.

You could modify a logo until it is no longer considered to be the same as the copyrighted logo.

[mayasharapovaz]

oh ok so this is noy legal? they use like 100+ RL bands logo for event! they say make event from 2010 and win many awards

https://www.facebook.com/RebelYellConcertsGroup

 

so not fans club allowed in SL? 

Wiki say Fans Club can use official material without any writed authorization.. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_club

 

and fanart free use? like deviantart and other fanart site where ppl create handmade logo and let ppl use for free?

https://www.nicepng.com/ourpic/u2q8w7r5u2w7r5q8_blackpink-music-fanart-tv-black-pink-png-logo/

create a band virtual in SL and play forfree can be "creative projects or simply as a decoration"  logo use?

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by mayasharapovaz

[Dragon Mommy]

Would you be making your own logos or using fanart others have made? Generally speaking, you don't use someone else's work without permission. 

Wikipedia isn't really a good source for legal advice. 

[mayasharapovaz]

2 hours ago, Bitterthorn said:

Would you be making your own logos or using fanart others have made? Generally speaking, you don't use someone else's work without permission. 

Wikipedia isn't really a good source for legal advice. 

yes agree but many make and add "free use" in descriptions and DL is free

https://www.nicepng.com/ourpic/u2q8w7r5u2w7r5q8_blackpink-music-fanart-tv-black-pink-png-logo/

but what i dont understand.. its " creative projects or simply as a decoration"  can be a free cover virtual band than play for free?

 i see many in SL like on FB and they are active from 10+ years like this group link they do 3event at week and if was not legal i think someone stop them in 10 years.. so im confused..( https://www.facebook.com/RebelYellConcertsGroup ) so maybe is allowed use for decoration or a creative project?

 

 

[Alwin Alcott]

2 hours ago, mayasharapovaz said:

oh ok so this is noy legal?

 

simple rule,

if it's not made by you, and/or you don't own user-rights from the legal owner ;  don't use it.
If it is totally free to use, you'r safe.
Many things people think are free, because it's on the internet, is actually not free, and often has limit to be used, as example, no commercial use, or no sharing with others.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Alwin Alcott

[CaithLynnSayes]

10 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

simple rule,

if it's not made by you, and/or you don't own user-rights from the legal owner ;  don't use it.
If it is totally free to use, you'r safe.
Many things people think are free, because it's on the internet, is actually not free, and often has limit to be used, as example, no commercial use, or no sharing with others.

And if you google for images, under each image it says "Images may be subject to copyright"

From the terms of service: (https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/second-life-terms-and-conditions Section 5)

Quote

You should not use copyrighted, trademarked, or celebrity material in Second Life

 

You know that wall of text you saw when you signed in? That legal document you clicked "i agree" to? How many seconds did you spend reading it?  I'm sorry, i know i've ranted about that before, but i always find it sort of interesting when questions are asked about something that is in a document that has been presented to you (not to long ago, in your case).

Not trying to attack you, just pointing something out.

[mayasharapovaz]

ok i understand about that thank you!

many "fanart" are free DL.. but idont understand.. many say that can be used for.." creative projects or simply as a decoration"

 can be a free cover virtual band than play for free a "creative project" or use a logo like "simply decoration" fot exemple on a stage in a prim?

(not selling, not share, not give aways, nothing of that.. just be on a wall or like banner?)

 

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by mayasharapovaz

[Mollymews]

1 hour ago, mayasharapovaz said:

many say that can be used for.." creative projects or simply as a decoration"

when this is clearly stated by the copyright holder then you are good to go (for the purpose allowed by the copyright holder)

when the terms of use are not stated, then copyright and/or trademark laws apply

if in doubt (is unclear to you) and you really do want to use some other person's work then contact them and ask. They will either reply Yes or No. Sometimes they never reply, in which case the answer is No

[Rat Luv]

10 hours ago, mayasharapovaz said:

We see many use RL bands logo for SL event.. now my question is..

It's allowed use this TM or Copyright "logo" for free, i asked in SL and many say they are like "fans Art" show and they do for free and any donation they have are used for the show like FanClub/Coverband do in RL! so if we do same just use one logo and do same it's allowed or we can have some problem..?

( this ppl say if you earn RL Money selling  shirts or more maybe problem.. but they say "we sell shirts form cheap with RLLogo like 50L$"(18 cen eu) like RP small store and never change L$ for RL$ and the incoming L$ are less than you spend for the show.. allowed! 

I think they right i dont think there is a problem about that and i dont think RL bands super famous make a problem to 3 4 fans make event like that for fews L$ earned and used from continue the game.. but maybe you all know more and happy to read your ideas and rules from Linden 

thank you

There are logos all over SL...just type a band name and 'T-shirt' on Marketplace, or see Metallica or Kiss play 'live' in SL 🙂 

I wouldn't worry about it! 

[Rowan Amore]

9 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

There are logos all over SL...just type a band name and 'T-shirt' on Marketplace, or see Metallica or Kiss play 'live' in SL 🙂 

I wouldn't worry about it! 

She asked if it was allowed.  I posted the relevant LL statement on it saying it isn't.  Sure, chances are they won't get in trouble for it.  It's not allowed but hey, everyone else does it so...

[Rat Luv]

10 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

She asked if it was allowed.  I posted the relevant LL statement on it saying it isn't.  Sure, chances are they won't get in trouble for it.  It's not allowed but hey, everyone else does it so...

I wasn't having a pop at you or anyone else on the thread. That's what I mean...if she feels it's morally wrong, then she shouldn't do it. But she won't get in any trouble. I don't think any of the copyright holders really care about SL when their goods are being pirated all around the world IRL. And everyone does it, even the Moles! And it doesn't sound like she's doing this for money. Just a bit of harmless shenanigans 🙂

Edited March 5, 2022 by Rat Luv

[Rowan Amore]

11 hours ago, mayasharapovaz said:

rules from Linden

 

56 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

I wasn't having a pop at you or anyone else on the thread. That's what I mean...if she feels it's morally wrong, then she shouldn't do it. But she won't get in any trouble. I don't think any of the copyright holders really care about SL when their goods are being pirated all around the world IRL. And everyone does it, even the Moles! And it doesn't sound like she's doing this for money. Just a bit of harmless shenanigans 🙂

We've had people asking things like this before.  They seem to know something is wrong and come here to find someone to say it's ok.  Just because 'everyone does it' wouldn't be an excuse if one did get in trouble.  

Generally, it's NOT allowed.  Morally, ethically and legally.

[Rat Luv]

OK...well, was just my opinion. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

Harmless shenanigans are rarely (if ever) completely harmless. 

Just something to think about.

[StarlanderGoods]

it all boils down to how litigious the IP holder is.  Look for information about the band you want to imitate, see if they have any problem with fan-art or tribute bands, and there you have your answer.  Some creators dont mind their IP being used, and others do.

[Chris Corvinus]

Bottom line is, if everyones doing it then rules are not being enforced. And alot of people are doing it. Its not just band logos. Ive seen Nike (probably the most used), Adidas, Ford, and a slew of other real life companies at plenty of shopping events. All ripped and used without being altered. Theres no shame. The problem is theres zero enforcement of the rules.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Chris Nova

[Drake1 Nightfire]

Disney was at one time hammering LL to remove all of their Trademarked and  Copyrighted images, likenesses, mesh bodies, castles, soundclips, and whatever else they could legally do. Many musicians have also come down on SL for people doing "concerts" of their music. 

Bottom line, if you didn't create it, don't use it in SL. I know, funny statement coming from a guy using a picture of Deadpool as his avatar. 

[Chris Corvinus]

13 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Bottom line, if you didn't create it, don't use it in SL. I know, funny statement coming from a guy using a picture of Deadpool as his avatar. 

I think everyone knows they shouldnt but SL really does make it easy. Its more a matter of how easy it is to get away with it. Telling/showing people the rules wont do much.

I think LL relies on DMCA takedown requests more than their own rules (which are simply there to protect themselves legally). So as long as the actual owner doesnt know, nothing will be done.

[Bree Giffen]

Band logos are usually trademarked and trademarks have to be enforced by the owner or they risk losing control of how it is used. If a company uses a trademarked logo for ten years and the trademark owner does nothing then the company can possibly say they now have the right to use it. My guess is that SL is such a niche and small market that it's not worth pursuing any trademark infringers within it.

[Quartz Mole]

Quote

In Second Life, we hope creators will use their imagination to make original content. Some create things that are inspired by real-world objects, like cars or jewelry. When you do that, please make sure you're not improperly using another's intellectual property – for example, a trademarked logo or brand name, a distinctive product appearance (known as "trade dress"), characters or material from a movie, book, or other copyrighted work, or a celebrity image or name (protected as a "right of publicity"). As Second Life gets larger, we receive more questions about intellectual property and Second Life.

You should not use copyrighted, trademarked, or celebrity material in Second Life, unless of course you are the intellectual property owner or have permission from the intellectual property owner. Your use of Second Life is subject to applicable copyright, trademark, and right-of-publicity laws. These are complicated laws, and understanding our Terms of Service and [1] is only a very small start to understanding applicable laws. real-world laws apply to intellectual property infringement, and nothing about your use of Second Life will shield you if you are infringing on someone else's intellectual property — the rightful owner of the intellectual property can take direct legal action against you in real-world courts of law.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Intellectual_Property

 

[Nalates Urriah]

@mayasharapovaz I think your confusion is how you think of what is or may be legal by looking at what people do. Doesn't work that way.

Copyright and Intellectual Property (IP) rights are clearly defined in all countries. Laws may differ a bit, but they all say essentially the same thing. SL abides by those laws. Just remember they, the Lab, is not an enforcement agency.

The RL effect is sort of like traffic laws on speed. There is a speed limit. In California, USA that limit is generally 65. Most of us drive at 70 to 80 MPH. One is only ever ticketed when an officer is doing traffic enforcement and not busy with something else. Or one is weaving through traffic and an officer sees them and considers it unsafe.

Here in SL it is the same. Since the possible income from copyright or IP abuse and any financial recovery from a lawsuit would likely not be enough to pay for an hour of a good attorney's time. So, even if the copyright holder notices you are likely only going to get a Cease and Desist letter. The real impact comes from the Lab. If they receive the letter, they will react and how you respond to the Lab is likely to set the tone of their actions. Or if your abuse becomes so prevalent it is noticed by the Lindens, which is no small feat, will the Lab do much.

So, the whole issue is mostly a matter of your morals, ethics, and level of acceptable risk.

[CaithLynnSayes]

4 hours ago, Rat Luv said:

OK...well, was just my opinion. 

 

It's a bad one. Like @Rowan Amore already pointed out. Just because people tend to do it, doesn't mean it's ok. Hell, that's why copyright exists in the first place. To protect.

[Persephone Emerald]

12 hours ago, mayasharapovaz said:

ok i understand about that thank you!

many "fanart" are free DL.. but idont understand.. many say that can be used for.." creative projects or simply as a decoration"

 can be a free cover virtual band than play for free a "creative project" or use a logo like "simply decoration" fot exemple on a stage in a prim?

(not selling, not share, not give aways, nothing of that.. just be on a wall or like banner?)

The Linden Lab Terms of Service notice is the final law on when it is ok to use someone else's work in SL. If its not made by you or bought by you with the rights to use it, then you are not supposed to use it.

However, just as in the example of traffic enforcement, there is a grey area where you can get away with stuff. My personal rule for copying stuff off the internet for use in SL is that if I'm using an image for myself, not selling something I've made with it, if it's No Transfer so nobody else could sell it, and if I'm not profiting by using it in anyway, then I'll use it. If I want to make something to sell in SL, then I need to use images that are not copyrighted, such as pictures of classical paintings or RL places (not copy-righted by the photographer). Using a trademarked band logo to promote an event would be a bad idea, because the band could report you. Making a poster for that band to put in your SL house (or your RL house) would be safe, because no one is going to care or report that.