New "Community Pages" for Second Life

[Scylla Rhiadra]

From the SL Blog's "Featured News" . . .

Quote

We’re excited to announce our new initiative! We’ve begun building in-depth community pages that will live directly on the Second Life website. Each of these pages will celebrate Residents in all different communities, and showcase the meaningful experiences that strengthen the social fabric of Second Life. This will include stories, quotes, photos, videos, and more — all directly from Second Life Residents.

[...]

These community pages are living projects, and we want your input! These pages will be extensive resources by and for each community. If you would like to submit content for a page, please keep an eye out for announcements on specific community pages, as there will be a (google form) open to the public for each of them. Please understand that due to the volume of submissions, not all content will be published, but we appreciate your input.

Our first new community page is Black Culture in Second Life. “Black culture is rich because it is from the soul. When you see Blackness in real life, what you are seeing is a soul of a people. Some of us displaced from generations; some of us with long lineages of old worlds and traditions. From the way we talk, to the beliefs we hold, to our own language [African American Vernacular English, and the international derivatives of it], Blackness is a LIFE FORCE of Second Life,” writes Dondallia Graves.

This seems to me a rather good idea, depending (of course) on how it is implemented. There ARE many diverse communities within SL, often of course overlapping, but there really hasn't been a good way to to support or reach these, except through the rather iffy channel of resident-created in-world groups. This might become a fabulous resource for helping people connect and learn within SL.

This is bound, of course, to be a bit controversial. Thoughts?

Here's the first of the new community pages:

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

It occurs to me, thinking about it now, that one possible good move, although it would require uncharacteristic speed from LL, would be a "community page" on Ukrainians in SL.

[Coffee Pancake]

It's a good idea that sinks or swims on the implementation and risks highlighted groups appearing monolithic.

It would have been better if the community page for Black Culture had been ready for the start of February rather than the start of March and perhaps with a different headline picture taken specifically for the community page. I have no idea why there is a "studies show" paragraph citing Pew research, who is that for?

If we're following the calendar, then I presume Women's history month is next (lets hope it includes mention of trans women).

 

I hope some of the adult communities get as enthusiastically featured.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It's a good idea that sinks or swims on the implementation and risks highlighted groups appearing monolithic.

Agreed. Implementation is all: is this a bit of nice PR bumpf, or will it actually be functional and useful?

And yes, if they're going to take this step, they need to expand it to include a really wide variety of communities.

3 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

If we're following the calendar, then I presume Women's history month is next (lets hope it includes mention of trans women).

My thought exactly. On both counts.

4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I hope some of the adult communities get as enthusiastically featured.

This WOULD be a good way to showcase adult communities in SL, something that LL has been reluctant to do (for fairly obvious if contentious reasons). I am doubtful, however.

I think a community page for BDSM might be useful.

On the other hand, if there is one for Gor, I'm going nuclear.

[Persephone Emerald]

I think Linden Lab may be disturbed by how much of the SL community actually has its discourse away from the control of Linden Lab. Looking at how well(?) things went when these forums because heavily monitored by Linden Lab, I assume the same will happen with this project. When any form of discourse is regulated and sanitized by a governing body that might be criticized or made to look bad in the view of that body, that discourse is going to be limited and shallow.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think a community page for BDSM might be useful.

Agreed.

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

On the other hand, if there is one for Gor, I'm going nuclear.

The Gorean's all left and went to play Conan with a mod pack ...

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Persephone Emerald said:

I think Linden Lab may be disturbed by how much of the SL community actually has its discourse away from the control of Linden Lab. Looking at how well(?) things went when these forums because heavily monitored by Linden Lab, I assume the same will happen with this project. When any form of discourse is regulated and sanitized by a governing body that might be criticized or made to look bad in the view of that body, that discourse is going to be limited and shallow.

I think this is an excellent point. It's important to bear in mind, probably, that this is a community-based tool second; it's first function is undoubtedly PR.

On the other hand, they seem to be soliciting content from residents. I've no doubt anything of that nature will be heavily controlled, if not outright censored. A real possibility is, of course, that "safe" residents who have established that they are not going to be controversial will be prioritized.

I'm doubting, for instance, that a submission by myself on representations of sexual violence in SL is likely to be accepted . . .

[Maryanne Solo]

I'm greatly disappointed in this approach in both RL & SL.
In RL "multiculturalism" used to mean all cultures coming together as one.
Which seemed to mean everyone would make an equal effort to co-exist.
Now it means many different communities living in the same place. o.0
That is not the same thing.
And now its being promoted in SL? 
 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Maryanne Solo said:

I'm greatly disappointed in this approach in both RL & SL.
In RL "multiculturalism" used to mean all cultures coming together as one.
Which seemed to mean everyone would make an equal effort to co-exist.
Now it means many different communities living in the same place. o.0
That is not the same thing.
And now its being promoted in SL? 
 

This is sort of the kind of critique that I was expecting, Maryanne.

I get where you're coming from . . . sort of.

But think about your language for a moment. What exactly does "all cultures coming together as one" mean?

Does it imply the erasure of difference? A sort of melting pot, perhaps, that produces a hybrid homogeneity?

I believe (and yes, it's almost a tagline) that there IS strength in diversity. The notion that recognizing difference somehow "fragments" us need not be true; on the contrary, a wide variety of different perspectives can strengthen the whole.

Much depends on how we perceive difference and diverse communities. If we see these as a threat to ourselves, or as "competition" in a sort of neoliberal or neo-Darwinist struggle for power and survival, then, yes, this would be a bad thing. But I happen to think that's exactly the WRONG way to approach this subject.

[Marigold Devin]

I feel I'm not quite getting this - or I am!

It is a PR exercise. There are such a lot of places and spaces out there, not run by Linden Lab, where communities meet up and share their SL experiences. Linden Lab are just attempting to pull (the best of) it back to base.

And actually, focussing on one particular community makes me feel more segregated than engaged. 

We might learn something new if we venture in each week and have a look see, and while that won't be a bad thing, will it make us feel encouraged or able to go and mingle with people from other communities, where the majority are ... black, German, English, furry, whatever. 

What am I missing?

 

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

I feel I'm not quite getting this - or I am!

It is a PR exercise. There are such a lot of places and spaces out there, not run by Linden Lab, where communities meet up and share their SL experiences. Linden Lab are just attempting to pull (the best of) it back to base.

And actually, focussing on one particular community makes me feel more segregated than engaged. 

We might learn something new if we venture in each week and have a look see, and while that won't be a bad thing, will it make us feel encouraged or able to go and mingle with people from other communities, where the majority are ... black, German, English, furry, whatever. 

What am I missing?

 

 

You're right, I think, that this is, in part, a PR exercise.

But one of the weaknesses of SL is that so much of what we do here is actually done off-platform. Discord, which we use primarily because group chat is so broken, and there are no really equivalent affordances, is one example. So too is Facebook: there is no real "social media" tool within SL. Integrating some of what we do back into the platform is by no means a bad idea -- although there are obvious advantages to connecting elsewhere (as for instance the fact that we won't be censored by LL).

The other element of this relates to the choice of communities. LL is announcing that this is only the first community page they are producing. I would imagine that a page for LGBTQI+ is also a high priority. And, hopefully, there will be a number of others.

The choice of which communities to highlight will, and should, undoubtedly be a function of the degree to which they are somewhat marginalized. In other words, a community page for white people in SL is probably not going to be particularly useful, because this is already the dominant demographic. Featuring the Black community, or LGBTQI+, or others, is a way of amplifying voices and perspectives that can get somewhat lost in the noise.

It's not about segregation. It's about strengthening and affirming communities that may have a difficult time being heard, or connecting with each other. It's about bringing these communities to the table as equal partners.

[StarlanderGoods]

 @Paulsian this is what you were talking about, if they start streaming that content to in-world TVs, your dream will be realized and you should definitely open some sort of divination booth.

[Maryanne Solo]

49 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

But think about your language for a moment. What exactly does "all cultures coming together as one" mean?

I certainly did so.
Respectfully, you left out this part: "Which seemed to mean everyone would make an equal effort to co-exist".
In actual fact it didn't seem that way, it was that way.
Eg: My own family has had historical and very enjoyable relations with both Indigenous peoples and those of Chinese ancestry
since the mid 1800s.
I certainly expect some exceptions regarding an equal effort for indigenous peoples, who have always been the loving custodians of this earth. 
It strikes me that the proponents of "modern" multiculturalism are those who have the least experience of same. 🤔  

[Paul Hexem]

55 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The choice of which communities to highlight will, and should, undoubtedly be a function of the degree to which they are somewhat marginalized. In other words, a community page for white people in SL is probably not going to be particularly useful, because this is already the dominant demographic. Featuring the Black community, or LGBTQI+, or others, is a way of amplifying voices and perspectives that can get somewhat lost in the noise.

 

My concern is that only certain communities will be highlighted.

If we only see said marginalized communities show up, then we're basically feeding into the types of people that marginalize them in the first place.

[Marigold Devin]

46 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

You're right, I think, that this is, in part, a PR exercise.

But one of the weaknesses of SL is that so much of what we do here is actually done off-platform. Discord, which we use primarily because group chat is so broken, and there are no really equivalent affordances, is one example. So too is Facebook: there is no real "social media" tool within SL. Integrating some of what we do back into the platform is by no means a bad idea -- although there are obvious advantages to connecting elsewhere (as for instance the fact that we won't be censored by LL).

The other element of this relates to the choice of communities. LL is announcing that this is only the first community page they are producing. I would imagine that a page for LGBTQI+ is also a high priority. And, hopefully, there will be a number of others.

The choice of which communities to highlight will, and should, undoubtedly be a function of the degree to which they are somewhat marginalized. In other words, a community page for white people in SL is probably not going to be particularly useful, because this is already the dominant demographic. Featuring the Black community, or LGBTQI+, or others, is a way of amplifying voices and perspectives that can get somewhat lost in the noise.

It's not about segregation. It's about strengthening and affirming communities that may have a difficult time being heard, or connecting with each other. It's about bringing these communities to the table as equal partners.

But it hasn't worked so far. And there will be a tendency for a lot of people to say "Here we go again", banging on about rights again. It all becomes like white noise when you hear it so often, and those who need to hear it won't be listening anyway (or very few). 

Hasn't Linden Lab seen on the forums how our lovely How Does Your Avatar Look Today thread is a proper melting pot of different cultures, countries, colours, species, fantasies, and surely in a virtual reality world it's less about real life and more about what we may aspire to be in an alternative reality? Or is that what has given them the inspiration to separate out it's component parts and feature a set of people each week/month whatever? 

/me waves at Hunter. I can't wait for spider week.

One of my avatars is a woman of colour. Will she be featured in that particular week? Somehow don't think so. Because of course the woman behind that avatar is in the true minority, semi-invisible, post menopausal, and I don't think any of us consider that to be a community as such. "Week 4: We are featuring ...

 

drum roll please ...

 

The Menopausal Community. Ha!

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

First impressions - I don't like this. I'm going through the community page mentioned in their blog post, and I'm just not feeling it (full disclosure - I am Black). What I DO like - it's cool to have a list of destinations and businesses around the grid for each community they plan to highlight. Things I don't like - too many to get into here.

Now, if this will extend into fantasy communities (will we get Mermaids? Furries? Orcs? Dragons? Aliens? Demons? Roleplayers? Birb-Owned Businesses in Second Life?), then maybe I'd feel less "meh" about it. A page showing me places I can go to find other mermaids doing mermaid things or showcasing up-and-coming furry creators would freakin' rock. That would be a lot more useful to me, personally, considering I spend more time in SL being pink, green, purple, and fuzzy than anything else.

Short version - I agree with Scylla - depends how this is implemented. I need to see more pages.

 

[Paul Hexem]

20 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

My concern is that only certain communities will be highlighted.

If we only see said marginalized communities show up, then we're basically feeding into the types of people that marginalize them in the first place.

@Persephone Emerald seems confused.

I'm just trying to point out that there can be a fine line between combating a certain type of mentality or proving it right. An initiative like this could easily cross that line if they're not careful.

[Persephone Emerald]

26 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

But it hasn't worked so far. And there will be a tendency for a lot of people to say "Here we go again", banging on about rights again. It all becomes like white noise when you hear it so often, and those who need to hear it won't be listening anyway (or very few). 

Hasn't Linden Lab seen on the forums how our lovely How Does Your Avatar Look Today thread is a proper melting pot of different cultures, countries, colours, species, fantasies, and surely in a virtual reality world it's less about real life and more about what we may aspire to be in an alternative reality? Or is that what has given them the inspiration to separate out it's component parts and feature a set of people each week/month whatever? 

/me waves at Hunter. I can't wait for spider week.

One of my avatars is a woman of colour. Will she be featured in that particular week? Somehow don't think so. Because of course the woman behind that avatar is in the true minority, semi-invisible, post menopausal, and I don't think any of us consider that to be a community as such. "Week 4: We are featuring ...

 

drum roll please ...

 

The Menopausal Community. Ha!

 

Just to be clear, having a black avatar doesn't make one is in any way part of the Black Community of SL.  I don't think you thought it did, Marigold, but who knows what someone else might think. I've used a black avatar in roleplay (playing an Ptolemian Egyptian woman), but I don't think that gives me any say about issues for the black community. At most, I might have some idea of how ethnic skins look in SL and their availability.

As for middle-aged and older women in SL, I suspect we might actually be in the majority.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Persephone Emerald

[Scylla Rhiadra]

42 minutes ago, Maryanne Solo said:

I certainly did so.
Respectfully, you left out this part: "Which seemed to mean everyone would make an equal effort to co-exist".
In actual fact it didn't seem that way, it was that way.
Eg: My own family has had historical and very enjoyable relations with both Indigenous peoples and those of Chinese ancestry
since the mid 1800s.
I certainly expect some exceptions regarding an equal effort for indigenous peoples, who have always been the loving custodians of this earth.

I'm sorry, Maryanne, but I don't understand exactly what you're getting at here.

Are you implying that Black communities aren't making "an equal effort" to "co-exist"?

And what exactly does "co-exist" mean, in your dictionary? Accept the status quo?

Not trying to catch you out: I seriously require some clarification here.

44 minutes ago, Maryanne Solo said:

It strikes me that the proponents of "modern" multiculturalism are those who have the least experience of same. 🤔  

Um, well . . . I live in the heart of a city that is either (depending on your source and metric) the most, or second-most diverse in the world. And we here are very much proponents of what you call "modern multiculturalism" -- Toronto is a mosaic of neighbourhoods dominated by particular ethnicities. We are also, I don't think coincidentally, the second-safest city in the world. We're not without racism, of course. But on the whole, "modern multiculturalism" works pretty well here.

[Persephone Emerald]

4 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

@Persephone Emerald seems confused.

I'm just trying to point out that there can be a fine line between combating a certain type of mentality or proving it right. An initiative like this could easily cross that line if they're not careful.

I think I get it now. You're saying that if we admit that we see race as a defining characteristic, then we're being racist.

[Marigold Devin]

15 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Just to be clear, having a black avatar doesn't make one is in any way part of the Black Community of SL.  I don't think you thought it did, Marigold, but who knows what someone else might think. I've used a black avatar in roleplay (playing an Ptolemian Egyptian woman), but I don't think that gives me any say about issues for the black community. At most, I might have some idea of how ethnic skins look in SL and their availability.

As for middle-aged and older women in SL, I suspect we might actually be in the majority.

But this is the thing that hit me in the face about this particular idea of Linden Lab's. They are intending to feature avatars that represent members of particular communities, so hmmm realistic ones?

Nah, it's lost on me this one at this moment in time. It just alienates me and smacks of clique groups rather than a true spirit of community, which is what I thought the original concept of Second Life was all about.

_____

Old fogeys do make up a large proportion of the residents of Second Life, yes, I would agree with you there. However, I think anyone above 55 is beyond middle age (no way shall I be living to 110 anyway).

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Marigold Devin
I felt a question mark was needed.

[Persephone Emerald]

21 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

Old fogeys do make up a large proportion of the residents of Second Life, yes, I would agree with you there. However, I think anyone above 55 is beyond middle age (no way shall I be living to 110 anyway).

 

I think it depends on how big our groupings are. Let's say 0 to to 20 is young (subdivided as infant, child, teen, or young adult), 21 to 40 is one's prime, 41 to 60 is middle aged (plenty of us in this range are still working), then 61 to 80 would be something like senior, and over 80 would be elderly. As people are living and working longer, we might need to redefine our descriptions.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Persephone Emerald

[Paul Hexem]

28 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I think I get it now. You're saying that if we admit that we see race as a defining characteristic, then we're being racist.

Not quite. At the risk of taking the thread off topic, I'll explain.

What I'm saying is, if a racist says "straight white people are the ones being marginalized by these woke companies" and other similar things, then we make community pages that exclude straight white communities and only feature RL minorities, we just proved them right. We risk swaying people to their cause.

On the other hand, like someone else said, if we feature actual SL communities like mermaids or furries, then this could be great.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Paul Hexem

[Marigold Devin]

5 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I think it depends on how big our groupings are. Let's say 0 to to 20 is young (subdivided as infant, child, teen, or young adult), 21 to 40 is one's prime, 41 to 60 is middle aged (plenty of us in this range are still working), then 61 to 80 would be something like senior, and over 81 would be elderly. As people are living and working longer, we might need to redefine our descriptions.

Some are, some aren't. (Living and working longer.) My old headmistress is 105 years old. My friend's sister died last year aged 57. If we take the mean average to be, say, 76, divide it by 2 to make 38, and have four years at either side of that as middle age, so 34 to 42. Maybe. It's food for thought undoubtedly.

5 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Not quite. At the risk of taking the thread off topic, I'll explain.

What I'm saying is, if a racist says "straight white people are being marginalized by these woke companies" and other similar things, then we make community pages that exclude straight white communities and only feature RL minorities, we just proved them right. We risk swaying people to their cause.

On the other hand, like someone else said, if we feature actual SL communities like mermaids or furries, then this could be great.

I'm from the "Your world, your imagination" era, so when Linden Lab want to do something as real life as highlighting communities, is this going to be with a view of preventing those communities from being in the minority? Featuring black people one week, LGBTQ the following week, and then going onto mermaids or furries is going to undermine the credibility of weeks one and two. 

It's just a PR exercise, to try and get people off Discord and Facebook etc., and back into a visible space, to be seen to be being an inclusive society.  

[Istelathis]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This is bound, of course, to be a bit controversial. Thoughts?

It is probably going to be a headache for whoever has to write out these articles, as you can not really represent a community from just a few people.  What one member in a community thinks, may be completely different from others, and seeing that these are likely meant to be relatively short articles I don't think we will hear from the voices of everyone.