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Suggestions for Merchants in Shop & Hops


Crim Mip
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I love the Shop and Hop events. I almost always go around the whole circuit in the first couple days for the first run at least. The reality is your store gets maybe 5 seconds to draw attention as somebody is moving past, or it just gets passed by. Here are some things that tend to make me pause and at least look further:

Textures need to rez fast. Seriously, use the  lowest rez textures you can, especially near the front so they rez fast as people approach. If all I'm getting is a blur of panels, I'll just keep moving.

Create an actual store front with an interesting graphic, color pallet, etc. If I look and it's just a wall with Casper vendors on it, I'll figure you didn't put in much effort so why should I? This goes triple for the corner spots. If you get one of these, you are like an anchor store at a mall. Make it interesting, make it memorable. You are the ones people will landmark.

Cool stores/storefronts have prop objects. Make sure to sell those too or indicate where they can be bought. Do try to avoid having prop items that are cooler than the items you are actually trying to market. Yes, this happens.

Less is more. You don't need to show every item you make. Show off the best selling and the newest. If those click with somebody, they will seek out your main store or marketplace. This brings us to....

Make it easy for people to get an LM to your inworld store and/or a link to your MP store. They may not want/be able to buy immediately, but they may do so later. Make sure to indicate the selection of products is greater at those places.

This also makes it easier to offer the thing everyone loves....discounts. By discounts I mean 20+ percent off. These are digital items, they cost you nothing to produce, stock, or send. Let people get a great deal on some of your cool items and they are a lot more likely to pay full price for other ones later.

Too little is a bad look as well. If you have a huge store with like 10 items for sale....well you get the picture.

If you are selling mesh items, the LOD models for near, medium and far need to be done right. I don't care if it makes them a little higher in LI, we all have prims to spare now. If I look in from the front of your shop, and the mesh items at the back of your shop are a mess of triangles with my setting at 3 for Object LOD, I'm probably going to assume you don't know what you're doing and not buy. I give a bit of a pass for something that will be inside and not likely seen at a distance....to a point.

If you are selling apparel and it's for a subset of bodies (especially if that doesn't include the system body), Make that known at the front of your store. I hate finding a really cool outfit only to realize it won't work for my AV. I don't care how cool your apparel is. It's not going to get me to buy a different mesh body.

If you are selling apparel and that includes apparel for males, please make that apparent from the front of your store, shout it out, make glowy arrows to it, etc. Seriously, we males will snap up anything good made for us. It will help your sales if you make versions for the standard system body. A lot of us don't bother with mesh bodies because of the lack of apparel.

There's no nice way to say this, but *****wear is *****wear. It all looks the same. It's not new, creative, or original most of the time. You'll do far better with something elegant, something creative, something that doesn't leave everything hanging out. Don't be the low hanging fruit.

Gachas are dead. Stores filled with those at previous shop and hops were annoying enough. Nobody wants to take the time to deal with Mepion, NextUp, or whatever variant to get around the Gacha ban you've come up with at a Shop and Hop. We want to buy what we want to buy quickly and move on.

I welcome disagreement (with reasons for such), discussion, and even additions to this list. If you just fire off a blast of insults, I'll simply ignore you.

 

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1 hour ago, Crim Mip said:

Make it easy for people to get an LM to your inworld store and/or a link to your MP store.

This is one of my biggest complaints about the stores in many events --- they do not have an LM Giver at their event stall/store.  Then to top it off, they don't even have a current SLURL for their store anywhere in their profile -- not in their "About" section or anywhere in their Picks.

 

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2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

This is one of my biggest complaints about the stores in many events --- they do not have an LM Giver at their event stall/store.  Then to top it off, they don't even have a current SLURL for their store anywhere in their profile -- not in their "About" section or anywhere in their Picks.

 

Oh the last bit bugs me, there has been many times where I tped to land for rent and I get a csr messaging me if they can help me. Then I get mad and just give up. Lol

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15 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

This is one of my biggest complaints about the stores in many events --- they do not have an LM Giver at their event stall/store.  Then to top it off, they don't even have a current SLURL for their store anywhere in their profile -- not in their "About" section or anywhere in their Picks.

 

Or worse, the SLURL is out of date and leaves you falling from midair or worse, puts you in somebody's private home. I really wish LL would add a feature to the MP where a merchant could just change a field once to update the SLURL for all their listings or maybe have a checkbox system for which to update.

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A few quibbles:

1)  "These are digital items, they cost you nothing to produce, stock, or send."  Items in SL DO have production costs, namely upload fees and photo costs (for vendor ads).  If a store uses templates, there's a cost to purchase those templates.  Designers who create their own items also have the expense of whatever software they use to create (Blender, just one example).  Any person who is seriously into running an SL business will incur costs to do so.  Time is money, as they say, so if a designer spends 8-10 hours (or more--rigging is HARD yo) on a complicated product, they are well within their rights to include that in the cost of their products.  Most stores also use a vendor system, so they incur a cost to purchase CasperVend or MD or whatever other vendor system is available.  Maybe a creator pays someone to write scripts for them, therefore another cost incurred.    LL does not charge for booth space at Shop & Hop, so that's basically the only free part of it.  I believe LL requires a minimum of 20% off in order to participate in S&H too.  If you know for sure someone is selling full-price items at S&H, report them.

2) "There's no nice way to say this, but *****wear is *****wear. It all looks the same. It's not new, creative, or original most of the time. You'll do far better with something elegant, something creative, something that doesn't leave everything hanging out. Don't be the low hanging fruit."    *****wear is certainly NOT my preferred aesthetic.  The thing is that *****wear DOES sell, or it would not be so prevalent in world.    There IS demand for it.  The Kupra body wouldn't be as popular as it is without the *****wear market. You cannot swing a dead cat at any clothing event without finding dozens of stores catering to that aesthetic.  The cost for a booth at most of these events is pretty outrageous, so Store ABC might be paying 5000L-20000L for a booth at Event XYZ (just throwing out a range; I do not know the going rate for event booths, but they are usually in the thousands).  If Store ABC sells *****wear at events, you can bet your bippy those clothes will sell at Event XYZ because no store owner is going throw lindens away on a booth where they don't make a profit.

I was just griping to myself today looking at Seraphim that a certain store that has really adorable clothes insists on creating skirts where the panties/crotch is hanging out or the boobs are hanging out.  I would spend SO much money at that store if l could keep my naughty bits covered, but obviously this store is not hurting for customers who like that aesthetic. Some people just don't want to be elegant in SL. They like being low-hanging fruit (or genitals, as it were), and that's ok.  I have my go-to stores, for whom I'm very grateful.

Clothing created from templates must also sell fairly well or the stores that use them wouldn't be in events either.  

3) As for telling stores to go back to making clothing for the system bodies: it's NOT going to happen on a large scale.  A few stores are putting some effort into creating BOM clothing again.  They won't be going back to the old "standard sizing" method used in the pre-mesh period. 

I do agree about LODs. In fact, I wish every creator would pay more attention to LOD.

My biggest gripe about S&H stores it that many of them focus so much on extravagantly decorating their allotted space, to the point where I struggle to find what they're selling.  I get it that S&H is a holiday-focused event, and pretty decorations are nice, but I don't want to wait several minutes for everything to rez, just to discover it's something in which I have no interest.  If the decorations are not sold by that store, I can just mouseover the items and find the creator so I can go shop there later.

Second biggest gripe is people who go to S&H dressed to the nines, wearing animesh pets, and generally lagging the joint down.  I was cruising along quite nicely in one region yesterday, and then one person showed up with vomit-inducing ARC and wearing enough scripts to carry in a wheelbarrow.  I had to rush through and escape to the next region to get away from them. 

 

 

 

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On 2/7/2022 at 1:29 PM, Crim Mip said:

These are digital items, they cost you nothing to produce, stock, or send. Let people get a great deal on some of your cool items and they are a lot more likely to pay full price for other ones later.

Have you ever made anything for SL? Do you have any idea how much time it takes?  Not to mention the investment in software, or if you have to outsource for part of what you are making, or buy animations for furniture. The production cost is not nothing, and our time is not worthless.

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4 hours ago, Lysistrata Szapira said:

A few quibbles:

1)  "These are digital items, they cost you nothing to produce, stock, or send."  Items in SL DO have production costs, namely upload fees and photo costs (for vendor ads).  If a store uses templates, there's a cost to purchase those templates.  Designers who create their own items also have the expense of whatever software they use to create (Blender, just one example).  Any person who is seriously into running an SL business will incur costs to do so.  Time is money, as they say, so if a designer spends 8-10 hours (or more--rigging is HARD yo) on a complicated product, they are well within their rights to include that in the cost of their products.  Most stores also use a vendor system, so they incur a cost to purchase CasperVend or MD or whatever other vendor system is available.  Maybe a creator pays someone to write scripts for them, therefore another cost incurred.    LL does not charge for booth space at Shop & Hop, so that's basically the only free part of it.  I believe LL requires a minimum of 20% off in order to participate in S&H too.  If you know for sure someone is selling full-price items at S&H, report them.

2) "There's no nice way to say this, but *****wear is *****wear. It all looks the same. It's not new, creative, or original most of the time. You'll do far better with something elegant, something creative, something that doesn't leave everything hanging out. Don't be the low hanging fruit."    *****wear is certainly NOT my preferred aesthetic.  The thing is that *****wear DOES sell, or it would not be so prevalent in world.    There IS demand for it.  The Kupra body wouldn't be as popular as it is without the *****wear market. You cannot swing a dead cat at any clothing event without finding dozens of stores catering to that aesthetic.  The cost for a booth at most of these events is pretty outrageous, so Store ABC might be paying 5000L-20000L for a booth at Event XYZ (just throwing out a range; I do not know the going rate for event booths, but they are usually in the thousands).  If Store ABC sells *****wear at events, you can bet your bippy those clothes will sell at Event XYZ because no store owner is going throw lindens away on a booth where they don't make a profit.

I was just griping to myself today looking at Seraphim that a certain store that has really adorable clothes insists on creating skirts where the panties/crotch is hanging out or the boobs are hanging out.  I would spend SO much money at that store if l could keep my naughty bits covered, but obviously this store is not hurting for customers who like that aesthetic. Some people just don't want to be elegant in SL. They like being low-hanging fruit (or genitals, as it were), and that's ok.  I have my go-to stores, for whom I'm very grateful.

Clothing created from templates must also sell fairly well or the stores that use them wouldn't be in events either.  

3) As for telling stores to go back to making clothing for the system bodies: it's NOT going to happen on a large scale.  A few stores are putting some effort into creating BOM clothing again.  They won't be going back to the old "standard sizing" method used in the pre-mesh period. 

I do agree about LODs. In fact, I wish every creator would pay more attention to LOD.

My biggest gripe about S&H stores it that many of them focus so much on extravagantly decorating their allotted space, to the point where I struggle to find what they're selling.  I get it that S&H is a holiday-focused event, and pretty decorations are nice, but I don't want to wait several minutes for everything to rez, just to discover it's something in which I have no interest.  If the decorations are not sold by that store, I can just mouseover the items and find the creator so I can go shop there later.

Second biggest gripe is people who go to S&H dressed to the nines, wearing animesh pets, and generally lagging the joint down.  I was cruising along quite nicely in one region yesterday, and then one person showed up with vomit-inducing ARC and wearing enough scripts to carry in a wheelbarrow.  I had to rush through and escape to the next region to get away from them. 

 

 

 

You make some good points and I could have worded things better. Creating items takes time which is the most valuable thing we have to spend and skill which takes that to learn. That said, you're going to get a LOT of traffic for a S&H so offering a decent discount is not going to hurt you. People who would not have otherwise seen your items will and likely some of them will buy.

As for the skimpy clothing. I know it sells. If you're going to make it, at least do it well. Maybe include separates so it can be taken off a bit at a time. Here's one. Include a 'floor decoration' version, for if things progress to that point.

I don't mean system clothing, I mean sized mesh. If you've already made the model in Blender, doing classic sizes isn't that much additional effort. This is more a thing for males who are less likely to have bought a mesh body. To be fair, I can usually work with items made for the Slink male since that's still pretty close to the system body. We wouldn't be in this situation if the mesh body makers hadn't pulled the stunt of changing the rigging points to control who could make clothing for them.

Overdecorating a store is one I missed, but there are always a few.

I usually do the S&H run with 'Show Only Friends' turned on so I don't get render lag from the other shoppers. It's less a problem now since we got two big increases in script processing power.

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49 minutes ago, Stephanie Lovely said:

Have you ever made anything for SL? Do you have any idea how much time it takes?  Not to mention the investment in software, or if you have to outsource for part of what you are making, or buy animations for furniture. The production cost is not nothing, and our time is not worthless.

Yeah, I could have worded that better. It takes time and skill. What I meant was you usually get a lot of traffic with a lot of people who wouldn't otherwise have seen or purchased your items. Offering a discount won't hurt you and might well gain sales at full price of your other items.

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On 2/7/2022 at 3:29 PM, Crim Mip said:

If you are selling mesh items, the LOD models for near, medium and far need to be done right. I don't care if it makes them a little higher in LI, we all have prims to spare now. If I look in from the front of your shop, and the mesh items ...

 

... are the payment vendor

and I can't see the vendor because it is crumpled at 1.125 LOD (the default setting in the Linden viewer) when I am standing just inside your shop door, then I don't know how or where to buy your stuff even when I want to

i noticed a few payment vendors like this at Shop and Hop. So suggestion: spend more LI on your vendors please

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Precisely why I do not create for SL anymore.
At a rough guess a RL version of mah stuff sells for about 2500 times the value, (absolute minimum), it would sell for in SL.
Factor in the rental of 3d studio max @ $320Aud per month x hours spent creating and you start to get the picture.

Certainly I am converting all my 3d masters to a more compatible Blender suitable FREE software format but I taught myself mesh
in Autodesk software specifically because of the wealth of incredible help videos available.
Then they went all gestapo/mafia and made it subscription only. *hisssss  
It's the only software I ever really truly wanted to own outright. 😭 *cuss *throw$hit *tanty
 

So yeah, nah, lol, RL only to get the best return for my time spent.

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Let me be rude and say: I do not go to events and buy full priced items. I can buy that at any time.

And try to avoid giving gifts that are wearable beverages, especially if they have nothing with what you create and sell. I can have lots of coffee and cocoa cups to hold, made of some mesh premade model that's everywhere in SL. Unless you create foodstuff, and want to show off your best talent, do not bother. If you create custom mesh, it is better to give away one of your custom made items in a season color.

And I absolutely do not pay full price for a season item. Let us say you have a set of nails that's seasonal colors and patterns. Great gift. And next to the gift, place some sets of nails that is wearable all year around, to reduced price. Your chance of selling me one or two of those are suddenly much bigger. Full priced stuff should be placed a bit in the background, throw your gifts and sales at me, so I can't miss them. I often buy things I would not else bought, because they were on sale. You get money even if I don't use it.

We were talking about decor that do not rez. I was in a booth last Halloween that was terrible. Packed with grey stuff that had to be trees and bushes, partially covering vendors. Some obscure grey shapes that was carts or whatever they was... hard to tell. But if you can't control what size of textures the items you buy from others, you control the size of the textures in the vendors. They did not load faster than the decor.

But the creator had sent out a notice in the group about discounts, so I waited patiently. Because I am a "Grab it when it is on sale" kind of customer. And I love her jewelry. So I bought all the sets that I did not own from earlier. They were not 50% off, a set that cost 300 was reduced to 250 or something like that. Not super cheap but enough so I wanted to wait. I am sure I bought at least 4 sets, maybe 5-6. How many that walked away after they managed to locate her free pumpkin rings, but could not see a thing else than grey, I do not know.

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The huge problem for creators is this:
Customer A wants a high LOD factor, customer B wants low LI, customer C wants clothing for body XWZ included, customer D wants a fatpack, costumer E wants no HUDs, costumer F wants exclusive design for L$ 60 max, costumer G wants at least 1 hour customer support for their 200 L$ purchase..... and the list goes on and on and on.

Best thing to do for a creator IMHO: find your own way in the market. Do what suits you personally. Accept that whatever you choose to do, there will always be potential customers who want to see a different approach and outcome.
Find out what works and doesn't work in your situation. Do you want an inworld store or is the marketplace sufficient? Do you need web presence? Do you want to participate in events? How many hours are you willing to put into it, considering the outcome (enjoyment and payment)?

Don't let other people tell you how to run your business. Arrange it so that your role of being a creator/merchant stays in your comfort zone.
People who only consume have most likely no idea or only a vague notice about how many hours there are behind the most simple things created and marketed for SL for in fact peanut money returns for over 90% of all creators and merchants in SL.

Edited by Sid Nagy
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14 hours ago, Lysistrata Szapira said:

1)  "These are digital items, they cost you nothing to produce, stock, or send."  Items in SL DO have production costs, namely upload fees and photo costs (for vendor ads).  If a store uses templates, there's a cost to purchase those templates.  Designers who create their own items also have the expense of whatever software they use to create (Blender, just one example).  Any person who is seriously into running an SL business will incur costs to do so.  Time is money, as they say, so if a designer spends 8-10 hours (or more--rigging is HARD yo) on a complicated product, they are well within their rights to include that in the cost of their products.  Most stores also use a vendor system, so they incur a cost to purchase CasperVend or MD or whatever other vendor system is available.  Maybe a creator pays someone to write scripts for them, therefore another cost incurred.    LL does not charge for booth space at Shop & Hop, so that's basically the only free part of it.  I believe LL requires a minimum of 20% off in order to participate in S&H too.  If you know for sure someone is selling full-price items at S&H, report them.

Quibble quibble - I believe what was being referred to was what's called the "marginal cost" of an item - the amount to make the next one of a series of identical items. And with digital items, there is no marginal cost. It costs exactly the same to make one item as it takes to make seventeen million of them. (Oh, and Blender is absolutely free, FYI, as is GIMP for graphics.)

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