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Does your avatar dream when you log off?


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@Vanessa Amethyst & @Echelon Alcott you are stressing my bubble and harshing my imaginary world. There are times for explaining Santa and times for going along with the story. There are usually way more options for fun and hilarity when you go along with the story.

If you are talking to someone that still believes in Santa, they are either way young or have mental issues or they are playing along. Neither believer will appreciate learning about the reality. How much fun will it be for them or the one explaining? And why would they explain reality anyway? But with the one playing along you can have great fun.

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I'm not sure whether she dreams or not - I did put her to bed before logging off last night, to try and find out :)

One thing I do know though, on RL nights when some RL worry or problem is trying to take over my thoughts and keeping me from sleep, I've found that thinking what my avatar did earlier or might do the next time I log in - or even just picturing her doing things at her house, healthy and strong, or taking care of her little farm - is comforting.

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2 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

@Vanessa Amethyst & @Echelon Alcott you are stressing my bubble and harshing my imaginary world. There are times for explaining Santa and times for going along with the story. There are usually way more options for fun and hilarity when you go along with the story.

If you are talking to someone that still believes in Santa, they are either way young or have mental issues or they are playing along. Neither believer will appreciate learning about the reality. How much fun will it be for them or the one explaining? And why would they explain reality anyway? But with the one playing along you can have great fun.

being honest if i came across someone who still believed in Santa or magic i would not try to harsh there fun growing up sucks and if we can keep magic in our life its all the much better

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13 hours ago, Tama Suki said:

When I log off I don't know what my avatar does.
But I'm sure that when I log off in real life and I fall asleep he wakes up, rez a prim and opens a script inside it where he tries to change my dreams.

🤪while you sleeping...

binary-background-hacking-code-green-color-49345275.jpg 

next day..

 

oops-that-wasn-t-the-right-password-try-again.png

Edited by Kalegthepsionicist
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7 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

@Vanessa Amethyst & @Echelon Alcott you are stressing my bubble and harshing my imaginary world. There are times for explaining Santa and times for going along with the story. There are usually way more options for fun and hilarity when you go along with the story.

If you are talking to someone that still believes in Santa, they are either way young or have mental issues or they are playing along. Neither believer will appreciate learning about the reality. How much fun will it be for them or the one explaining? And why would they explain reality anyway? But with the one playing along you can have great fun.

Your words are very nice and I understand your intentions well Nalates and I thank you.
But there is a fundamental error in what @Vanessa Amethyst and @Echelon Alcott say.
It is not true that the avatar enters a stasis and becomes a non-existence when we disconnect. However, he continues to process data and to elaborate his experience even if he is sealed in a universe different from ours.
Otherwise when we return to SL and wake him up we will not receive IM of when we was disconnected and our inventory would be reset and we will have to start our virtual experience from the beginning each time.
The machine code is made up of 1 and 0 but 0 does not mean nonexistence.
Since the Sumerians introduced it 3000 years ago up to Leonardo Fibonacci who introduced it to Europe through the Liber abbaci, published in 1202, we have understood that zero is a function and not simply total absence.
On the other hand, in mathematics, as well as in physics, "nothing" is not a concept to be taken into consideration.
When it is not our awareness to manipulate it, the avatar enters a stasis, yes, but it is an electrified active stasis where it still performs some kind of activity. However it does not disappear from existence, it continues to exist.

Edited by Tama Suki
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11 hours ago, Vanessa Amethyst said:

it no longer exists in the world when you log off and becomes a saved state on a server. Do your word files dream as well? 

 

11 hours ago, Echelon Alcott said:

Do databases dream about the data stored in them?

Avatars are simply 0s and 1s stored somewhere in AWS.

Some computers (AI) do in fact, dream.

https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/psychosis-dreams-memory-ai/

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11 hours ago, Vanessa Amethyst said:

Do your word files dream as well? 

The offline avatar (or account) is a complex, multi-impulse responsive data system with which it interacts.
It is not an abstract concept as words can be. It is an objective state of complex systems.

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What is an avatar really? The answer to this question shows how we might answer this question. If it is just pixels on a screen, then it cannot dream - but if it is a part of our own subconscious, then of course it dreams within our own minds. 

Alycia tells me that she does not dream, that she fades to black and then returns with a vague memory of what I've been doing and thinking. Perhaps this is because she does not remember her dreams? Maybe when she is not "alive" in SL, she continues to wander through my mind as an alternate self, reminding me that I could be more like her in my RL if I chose to be? My 2 other alts don't hold as much of my imagination, though I sometimes wonder how playing the role of a female in this RL incarnation has made me different from the view I get of myself as a male alt in SL. 

Unlike others on this thread, I don't think it's foolish to believe in magic, only that magic is not what most people think it is. As a RL practitioner of witchy arts, I think what we call magic is actually the metaphysical connections between thoughts, feelings, spirit beings and physical reality. Looking at SL from this perspective, I don't think it's impossible that a virtual creation could act as a kind of spirit-possesed item or even a servitor, but the limits to such a thing being able to work make it generally unlikely. Since an avatar doesn't stay inworld when it's logged off and is controlled by us when it is inworld, that makes it an unlikely link for a spirit to use. I've had a couple of virtual pets that I left running around inworld while I was not there, and thought they could have housed a spirit. Oddly enough, the one with less sophisticated scripting seemed to have more of it's own volition than the heavily scripted one did.

The virtual world of SL itself is unique in having literally *existed* in cyberspace for nearly 20 years, with only a few regions going down from time to time, let alone having existed in the imaginations of millions of people for all this time too. I think that makes it a very likely place for spirit beings to at least visit from time to time, since such beings would not be limited to existing in physical reality. If a physical place can be inhabited by spirits, then certainly a long-term virtual space could be inhabited by some kinds of spirits too. What kinds of spirits would be attracted to SL? Probably crossroads deities, deities of creation and communication, and those lesser spirits that are attracted to and feed on human desire and lust. 

I don't think any of those above mentioned spirits would be likely to inhabit an avatar though, nor do I believe a spirit of a dead person would either. I think our avatars are for the most part projections of ourselves, of both our conscious and subconscious thoughts, so if they dream it is only within our own minds that they do so.

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41 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

What is an avatar really? The answer to this question shows how we might answer this question. If it is just pixels on a screen, then it cannot dream - but if it is a part of our own subconscious, then of course it dreams within our own minds. 

Alycia tells me that she does not dream, that she fades to black and then returns with a vague memory of what I've been doing and thinking. Perhaps this is because she does not remember her dreams? Maybe when she is not "alive" in SL, she continues to wander through my mind as an alternate self, reminding me that I could be more like her in my RL if I chose to be? My 2 other alts don't hold as much of my imagination, though I sometimes wonder how playing the role of a female in this RL incarnation has made me different from the view I get of myself as a male alt in SL. 

Unlike others on this thread, I don't think it's foolish to believe in magic, only that magic is not what most people think it is. As a RL practitioner of witchy arts, I think what we call magic is actually the metaphysical connections between thoughts, feelings, spirit beings and physical reality. Looking at SL from this perspective, I don't think it's impossible that a virtual creation could act as a kind of spirit-possesed item or even a servitor, but the limits to such a thing being able to work make it generally unlikely. Since an avatar doesn't stay inworld when it's logged off and is controlled by us when it is inworld, that makes it an unlikely link for a spirit to use. I've had a couple of virtual pets that I left running around inworld while I was not there, and thought they could have housed a spirit. Oddly enough, the one with less sophisticated scripting seemed to have more of it's own volition than the heavily scripted one did.

The virtual world of SL itself is unique in having literally *existed* in cyberspace for nearly 20 years, with only a few regions going down from time to time, let alone having existed in the imaginations of millions of people for all this time too. I think that makes it a very likely place for spirit beings to at least visit from time to time, since such beings would not be limited to existing in physical reality. If a physical place can be inhabited by spirits, then certainly a long-term virtual space could be inhabited by some kinds of spirits too. What kinds of spirits would be attracted to SL? Probably crossroads deities, deities of creation and communication, and those lesser spirits that are attracted to and feed on human desire and lust. 

I don't think any of those above mentioned spirits would be likely to inhabit an avatar though, nor do I believe a spirit of a dead person would either. I think our avatars are for the most part projections of ourselves, of both our conscious and subconscious thoughts, so if they dream it is only within our own minds that they do so.

Very nice what you write.
Oh well, those who do not believe in magic or in a metaphysical philosophy or simply do not relax by interpreting SL as a corner in which you can freely let your imagination travel, most likely instead devote themselves to sexual practices that do not make any sense to me instead.

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42 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

What is an avatar really? The answer to this question shows how we might answer this question. If it is just pixels on a screen, then it cannot dream - but if it is a part of our own subconscious, then of course it dreams within our own minds. 

Alycia tells me that she does not dream, that she fades to black and then returns with a vague memory of what I've been doing and thinking. Perhaps this is because she does not remember her dreams? Maybe when she is not "alive" in SL, she continues to wander through my mind as an alternate self, reminding me that I could be more like her in my RL if I chose to be? My 2 other alts don't hold as much of my imagination, though I sometimes wonder how playing the role of a female in this RL incarnation has made me different from the view I get of myself as a male alt in SL. 

Unlike others on this thread, I don't think it's foolish to believe in magic, only that magic is not what most people think it is. As a RL practitioner of witchy arts, I think what we call magic is actually the metaphysical connections between thoughts, feelings, spirit beings and physical reality. Looking at SL from this perspective, I don't think it's impossible that a virtual creation could act as a kind of spirit-possesed item or even a servitor, but the limits to such a thing being able to work make it generally unlikely. Since an avatar doesn't stay inworld when it's logged off and is controlled by us when it is inworld, that makes it an unlikely link for a spirit to use. I've had a couple of virtual pets that I left running around inworld while I was not there, and thought they could have housed a spirit. Oddly enough, the one with less sophisticated scripting seemed to have more of it's own volition than the heavily scripted one did.

The virtual world of SL itself is unique in having literally *existed* in cyberspace for nearly 20 years, with only a few regions going down from time to time, let alone having existed in the imaginations of millions of people for all this time too. I think that makes it a very likely place for spirit beings to at least visit from time to time, since such beings would not be limited to existing in physical reality. If a physical place can be inhabited by spirits, then certainly a long-term virtual space could be inhabited by some kinds of spirits too. What kinds of spirits would be attracted to SL? Probably crossroads deities, deities of creation and communication, and those lesser spirits that are attracted to and feed on human desire and lust. 

I don't think any of those above mentioned spirits would be likely to inhabit an avatar though, nor do I believe a spirit of a dead person would either. I think our avatars are for the most part projections of ourselves, of both our conscious and subconscious thoughts, so if they dream it is only within our own minds that they do so.

This reminds me of the stories authors tell of how characters sometimes hijack the storytelling. My favorite recounting of this is by Mark Twain, in the forward to "Those Extraordinary Twins".

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3185/3185-h/3185-h.htm

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4 hours ago, Anna Salyx said:

SAL-9000 : Will I dream?
Dr. Chandra : Of course you will. All intelligent beings dream. Nobody knows why.

  ---2010: The Year We Make Contact

Very good, under-rated movie, that. Also, Persephone Emerald brings up some interesting points.

7 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

What is an avatar really? The answer to this question shows how we might answer this question. If it is just pixels on a screen, then it cannot dream - but if it is a part of our own subconscious, then of course it dreams within our own minds. 

Alycia tells me that she does not dream, that she fades to black and then returns with a vague memory of what I've been doing and thinking. Perhaps this is because she does not remember her dreams? Maybe when she is not "alive" in SL, she continues to wander through my mind as an alternate self, reminding me that I could be more like her in my RL if I chose to be? My 2 other alts don't hold as much of my imagination, though I sometimes wonder how playing the role of a female in this RL incarnation has made me different from the view I get of myself as a male alt in SL. 

Unlike others on this thread, I don't think it's foolish to believe in magic, only that magic is not what most people think it is. As a RL practitioner of witchy arts, I think what we call magic is actually the metaphysical connections between thoughts, feelings, spirit beings and physical reality. Looking at SL from this perspective, I don't think it's impossible that a virtual creation could act as a kind of spirit-possesed item or even a servitor, but the limits to such a thing being able to work make it generally unlikely. Since an avatar doesn't stay inworld when it's logged off and is controlled by us when it is inworld, that makes it an unlikely link for a spirit to use. I've had a couple of virtual pets that I left running around inworld while I was not there, and thought they could have housed a spirit. Oddly enough, the one with less sophisticated scripting seemed to have more of it's own volition than the heavily scripted one did.

The virtual world of SL itself is unique in having literally *existed* in cyberspace for nearly 20 years, with only a few regions going down from time to time, let alone having existed in the imaginations of millions of people for all this time too. I think that makes it a very likely place for spirit beings to at least visit from time to time, since such beings would not be limited to existing in physical reality. If a physical place can be inhabited by spirits, then certainly a long-term virtual space could be inhabited by some kinds of spirits too. What kinds of spirits would be attracted to SL? Probably crossroads deities, deities of creation and communication, and those lesser spirits that are attracted to and feed on human desire and lust. 

I don't think any of those above mentioned spirits would be likely to inhabit an avatar though, nor do I believe a spirit of a dead person would either. I think our avatars are for the most part projections of ourselves, of both our conscious and subconscious thoughts, so if they dream it is only within our own minds that they do so.

So, with all that said: Why not? Of course, our avatars wink out of existence the moment we log off. But they are "alive and well" within our minds and dreams, so in that sense, yes, they do dream.

On a barely related note, I had a conversation with a friend years ago. It pretty much went something along the lines of at the end of the day, it's all pixels and window dressing. But, it is all of us that make it all real. So with that being said, we all imprint on our avatars in one way or another, and therefore, our dreams are their dreams.

So, long story short, yes.

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4 hours ago, SlammedSam said:

Very good, under-rated movie, that. Also, Persephone Emerald brings up some interesting points.

So, with all that said: Why not? Of course, our avatars wink out of existence the moment we log off. But they are "alive and well" within our minds and dreams, so in that sense, yes, they do dream.

On a barely related note, I had a conversation with a friend years ago. It pretty much went something along the lines of at the end of the day, it's all pixels and window dressing. But, it is all of us that make it all real. So with that being said, we all imprint on our avatars in one way or another, and therefore, our dreams are their dreams.

So, long story short, yes.

I believe there is something more.
Perhaps a rarefied awareness somewhat analogous to Jung's theory of Collective unconscious.

Edited by Tama Suki
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I can only be in one place at a time, so when I log out, my avatar ceases to exist.  It's like a death each and every time I click the red X and return wholly to myself.  She is gone and if I never log in again, it's over for her.  My avatar does not have a life without me sharing mine.  Zero sentience.

I believe I mentioned before that I don't have an imagination.

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2 hours ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I can only be in one place at a time, so when I log out, my avatar ceases to exist.  It's like a death each and every time I click the red X and return wholly to myself.  She is gone and if I never log in again, it's over for her.  My avatar does not have a life without me sharing mine.  Zero sentience.

I believe I mentioned before that I don't have an imagination.

So you are a necromancer.

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13 hours ago, Tama Suki said:

I believe there is something more.
Perhaps a rarefied awareness somewhat analogous to Jung's theory of Collective unconscious.

I don't think my individual avatars have any consciousness of their own. I think their consciousness is part of my own, sort of like a pseudopod of my own consciousness, reaching into SL and using these visual representations to individualize parts of my subconscious mind. 

There could be a collective consciousness of Second Life itself though, basically an Egragore of SL. I think a good name for it would be Sansara, one of the original names proposed for Second Life, which ended up being the name of its largest continent and in a shorter form became the name for Sansar. 

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