Are there non-fungible tokens (NFTs) in Second Life?

[Oct Oyen]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

 

NFT doesn't contain the actual media, its code points to a storage where media is kept. In Opensea's case, it only stores media on their owner servers. The better way to store NFT media is to use IPSF, a decentralized storage blockchain.

[Crim Mip]

People who want to get into NFT's really should look up what they really are. NFT's don't contain much. There is enough storage capacity for each one to store a URL and that's about it. You aren't buying any actual thing if you buy an NFT. You're buying an uncopyable digital coupon with an  URL encoded into it. That doesn't mean that link will remain valid. If it doesn't, congrats! You now have an NFT for 404 Not Found. It doesn't even mean that somebody else can,t also make an NFT with that same link. The link isn't exclusive, only the digital coupon itself. There's also no way to enforce any contract or agreements about any of this. They aren't legally recognized or backed by anything other than others' believe they are worth something.

[Rowan Amore]

NFT scammers made off with $1.3 million in solana after a 'rug pull' despite the project creators being vetted | Currency News | Financial and Business News | Markets Insider (businessinsider.com)

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Another point worth mentioning.

In addition to the fact that so much of NFT crypto-bro culture is about scamming the unwary to make a fast buck and destroying the environment in the process, it is also culturally destructive to a terrifying degree.

The idiots who bought the special edition of Dune that I posted about above also plan to rip the pages out of this rare book, scan them into NFTs, and then burn the book itself. Why? Because it will supposedly increase the value of the NFTs.

I don't have words for how I feel about this kind of cultural vandalism. Destroying a rare book (even one that, in this case, I don't personally care much about) in order to claim "exclusivity" over the shredded bits of images they retrieve from it first represents yet another apex of human stupidity and evil.

How long, I wonder, before someone purchases a copy of a First Folio Shakespeare, a gorgeously illuminated medieval manuscript volume, or Gutenberg's 42-line Bible, and subjects it to a similar fate?

Edited January 21, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Rowan Amore]

[Oct Oyen]

13 hours ago, Crim Mip said:

People who want to get into NFT's really should look up what they really are. NFT's don't contain much. There is enough storage capacity for each one to store a URL and that's about it. You aren't buying any actual thing if you buy an NFT. You're buying an uncopyable digital coupon with an  URL encoded into it. That doesn't mean that link will remain valid. If it doesn't, congrats! You now have an NFT for 404 Not Found. It doesn't even mean that somebody else can,t also make an NFT with that same link. The link isn't exclusive, only the digital coupon itself. There's also no way to enforce any contract or agreements about any of this. They aren't legally recognized or backed by anything other than others' believe they are worth something.

NFT is backed by the original minter, if the original minter has a large fan base then the NFT has value among them. Take NBA (US pro basketball league) for example, it has millions of fans around the world. Its official NFTs are worth a lot of money to the fan base. It's all about consent value. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

[ChinRey]

3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

NFT scammers made off with $1.3 million in solana after a 'rug pull' despite the project creators being vetted | Currency News | Financial and Business News | Markets Insider (businessinsider.com)

Why do people do something like this? I mean, no matter how careful you are covering your tracks, there's always a risk of being caught if you commit a crime. It would only have taken them a few hours of work to cook up some garbage to deliver to their marks and they'd be perfectly safe legally.

[Coffee Pancake]

The long form video essay on NFT's we've been waiting for.

[animats]

5 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The long form video essay on NFT's we've been waiting for. - "Line goes up"

 

Line goes down. How low can it go?

The NFT market is Axie Infinity (above), OpenSea (a market), Bored Ape Yacht Club (a set of collectables), and the little guys.

Axie Infinity has a pay-to-earn game. It's like Pokémon. To play, you have to buy Axies, for about US$1000. Then you train and fight them. You earn Smooth Love Potion tokens this way. This really caught on in the Philippines. Poor people were quitting their day job to play. And, for a few months last summer, this was a good living.

But the money all came from new players (suckers) joining. It's a Ponzi scheme - the gains of the early adopters come from the payments of the late adopters. This never ends well. Line went down.

OpenSea is a market in non-fungible token art. Each item is priced separately. So, this works like Beanie Babies on eBay. The market stalls rather than crashing. You can't sell because you can't find a buyer. On eBay, you'll find many Beanie Babies offered for sale at US$5000 or so. Offered. That's an asking price. Most items have zero bids. Now look at completed sales, which eBay will show, although it's not that easy to find out how. Actual sales happen around $50. That's a stalled market. That's where OpenSea is now. Many zero-bid items, or bids below a "floor" price, so no transaction occurs.

Because cryptocurrencies are semi-anonymous, it's possible to pump up the prices of items by "wash sales", where someone sells something to themself at an exaggerated price. This is a criminal offense for stocks, legal for artworks, and very common in the NFT world.

The NFT thing is over. Some of the marks just don't know it yet.

[StarlanderGoods]

7 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The long form video essay on NFT's we've been waiting for.

Thank you, I came here to post that video.

[Crim Mip]

On 1/21/2022 at 1:49 PM, Oct Oyen said:

NFT is backed by the original minter, if the original minter has a large fan base then the NFT has value among them. Take NBA (US pro basketball league) for example, it has millions of fans around the world. Its official NFTs are worth a lot of money to the fan base. It's all about consent value. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

They aren't backed by anything at all. The NBA could shut down the server where the links go and the NFT's would cease to link to anything. There would be zero that anyone who'd bought one could do because they'd still have the unique coupon which is all they bought in the first place. They don't own the link and they don't own the image/page it links to. Think about that. Still want an NFT? Cryptocurrency isn't much better but at least there's a much larger pool of believers in it's value since the units of currency aren't unique.

[Crim Mip]

Think about this one. NFT's contain a URL. That URL can't be changed. How long before we see NFT trolls that start hacking the servers those links go to and substituting other images. Can you imagine some idiot who'd spent a huge amount on some NFT going to look at it and finding it was now a link to goatse or some such? It's going to happen at some point. Blockchain might be fairly secure, but servers storing the images NFT's link to aren't necessarily.

[Oct Oyen]

57 minutes ago, Crim Mip said:

Think about this one. NFT's contain a URL. That URL can't be changed. How long before we see NFT trolls that start hacking the servers those links go to and substituting other images. Can you imagine some idiot who'd spent a huge amount on some NFT going to look at it and finding it was now a link to goatse or some such? It's going to happen at some point. Blockchain might be fairly secure, but servers storing the images NFT's link to aren't necessarily.

Opensea stores the media on its own servers. But more and more NFT medias are been stored on IPFS,  a blockchain file storage.

You can say the same thing about the US government, or any governments really. Any organizations will die eventually, history has proven that over and over. Yet everyone still treats the US paper fiat like gold, it's all about trust, trusting the org will be around long enough for your investments to increase in value before you get rid of it or kick the bucket.

[StarlanderGoods]

1 hour ago, Oct Oyen said:

Opensea stores the media on its own servers. But more and more NFT medias are been stored on IPFS,  a blockchain file storage.

You can say the same thing about the US government, or any governments really. Any organizations will die eventually, history has proven that over and over. Yet everyone still treats the US paper fiat like gold, it's all about trust, trusting the org will be around long enough for your investments to increase in value before you get rid of it or kick the bucket.

THANK YOU! You finally admit that NFT´s and crypto fix NO problems with the current banking and currency, and are only a speculative asset "increase in value before you get rid of it", thats it, thats all that NFT´s are for, something to sell to a bigger fool or be left holding the bag when it all inevitably crashes.

[Polenth Yue]

Anyone who thinks this is going to go any better than Beanie Babies is going to be very disappointed. There were people who invested their life savings in Beanie Babies, only to find the value was lost once the bubble burst. The main difference is that Beanie Babies were perfectly nice toys and people who bought them for that were happy. Once the NFT bubble bursts, you're left with nothing but the memory that you once had a receipt that said you owned a picture that's no longer online.

[Oct Oyen]

17 hours ago, StarlanderGoods said:

THANK YOU! You finally admit that NFT´s and crypto fix NO problems with the current banking and currency, and are only a speculative asset "increase in value before you get rid of it", thats it, thats all that NFT´s are for, something to sell to a bigger fool or be left holding the bag when it all inevitably crashes.

Majority of NFT arts is going to be worthless when the bubble burst, some will remain valuable to a group of rich fools. Just like some modern abstract paintings, I would not want to hang it in my bathroom and yet super rich are paying big money to collect them. To some degrees, it's about ego within the group.

NFT solves the digital ownership issue. We'll see NFT ID cards and other legal documents issue by the government in a few years. Crypto currency is suppose to get rid of banks, it's already happening in small scale. In the US, migrant workers used to pay outrageous bank fee to send money home. Now they send Bitcoin home.

Whoever is in control of money has to power to control and regulate, crypto currency will face challenges from people who wants to staying power. Fun fact, in the US, a bank can loan out $100 for every $1 it holds. If 20% of people withdraw their money all at once, the banking system will collapse. This is why crypto currency was created, stop the cheating.

[StarlanderGoods]

10 minutes ago, Oct Oyen said:

Majority of NFT arts is going to be worthless when the bubble burst, some will remain valuable to a group of rich fools. Just like some modern abstract paintings, I would not want to hang it in my bathroom and yet super rich are paying big money to collect them. To some degrees, it's about ego within the group.

NFT solves the digital ownership issue. We'll see NFT ID cards and other legal documents issue by the government in a few years. Crypto currency is suppose to get rid of banks, it's already happening in small scale. In the US, migrant workers used to pay outrageous bank fee to send money home. Now they send Bitcoin home.

Whoever is in control of money has to power to control and regulate, crypto currency will face challenges from people who wants to staying power. Fun fact, in the US, a bank can loan out $100 for every $1 it holds. If 20% of people withdraw their money all at once, the banking system will collapse. This is why crypto currency was created, stop the cheating.

Just two things.

1- All of this claims about future use of NFT and how Bitcoin is replacing banks, exist only in your imagination, Bitcoin is barely accepted anywhere as currency, the families of those migrant workers you imagined wouldnt be able to purchase any basic necesities with Bitcoin. And the poor migrant workers you imagined are probably getting shanked out of their hard earned fractions of bitcoin with trading fees IF they can even find a way to cash out for a decent price.

2-You should pick a different analogy, because modern and abstract art, for the most part, require some degree of knowledge in art to apreciate. The fact that you dont have that knowledge doesnt mean that a piece of art has no merit on itself (not just like an X value item for trading or for displaying economic status).

There´s only two types of crypto users, marks and scammers, I hope you know on wich side you are.

[Mollymews]

there is also the question of the capacity to generate electricity for these large consumers

for example in New Zealand in 1970 Comalco [Rio Tinto] built a aluminium smelter at Tiwai Point down in the far south, and it drew the bulk of its electricity from the then newly-built Manapouri hydroelectric power station. The Comalco smelter currently consumes about 13% of all electricity generated in New Zealand

Comalco are looking to exit the smelter in 2024 as the aluminum market is glutted and has been for quite some years. The question for the country is what to do with the electricity which will be freed up from this exit

for most people they would prefer this to be re-distributed across the entire country. Cheaper electricity bills leading to spending in other areas of the economy 

there are a number of blockchain mining proposals to replace the smelter but they are not being seriously entertained by anyone

the only digital based proposals that are being entertained are digital data stores (server farms) combined with more ocean cables connecting New Zealand with Australia, Asia, the Pacific Islands and continental america

these proposals make more sense, as more storage and carrier capacity leads to lower digital prices which can be distributed across the population as a whole

all blockchain technology does is change the medium of payment [and record keeping[, which in itself doesn't lead to lower prices. If anything it leads to higher prices. It costs a whole lot less to print fiat money than it does to generate the equivalent in blockchain payment  medium [and a SQL datastore containing millions of records is a whole lot cheaper to maintain than is a blockchain]

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Mollymews
[ ]

[CaithLynnSayes]

 

[animats]

Game Developer's Conference attendee survey, 2022. (From Kotaku)

There's a huge split between people pushing NFTs and people with 3D worlds that are any good.

[NardweBones]

In short someone could convert SL data into NFT on multiple different Distributed Ledgers but I think there is some legal issues on moving this type of data in and out of the game. I am not 100% sure but I think I have read somewhere that you cannot essentially Buy and Sell other currencies (that are to be used outside of game) in the game and NFTs might fall into that category. 

[Lokiande]

NFTs are garbage, they cause harm to the environment, they are useless, pointless, expensive code that basically means nothing. Whoop de doo, you claim to have an image or file costing thousands of dollars, that ANYONE ELSE can get for free by simply right clicking and saving.

Kindly ***** off with that bull*****

[ChinRey]

10 hours ago, StarlanderGoods said:

2-You should pick a different analogy, because modern and abstract art, for the most part, require some degree of knowledge in art to apreciate.

Yes but I do think people with knowledge in art tend to agree with Oct here; I even know of several highly successful artists who do. They keep a bit quiet about it of course since they don't want to kill the goose that lies their golden eggs but every now and then they let it slip how ridiculous they think the whole thing is.

[TaraSimone Sixpence]

Looking over this thread, and some of the comments, there really are three different technologies being discussed, and some seem to be combining them into one bucket. One has:

1. Distributed Systems & Blockchain - these are not going away. They are incredibly versatile and important especially in AI development. 
2. Crypto Currencies - There are many here, and out in real who just push this aside. Govt. Regulations, inability to actually use it as we use CC's, money laundering, huge market fluctuations etc. and etc. (The fact that an exchange was hacked means nothing - Insurance companies and Hospitals are hacked all the time. Means you have to be incredibly careful with your Cyber Security.)
3. NFT - Possibly something no one really needs. Possibly, as in all technologies in their infancy, something that has to grow and define valuable uses. 

The point is LL and SL can no longer ignore the Metaverse - nor the fundamental aspects at which the Metaverse will operate. Rosedale knows this and possibly why he did come back on - to avoid the "dystopia" and yet lead into a better user experience. However, SL as it stands, no matter how much one loves it, no matter how advanced one think it is, can either sit back and watch and really lose the entire market or get their act together. I do not see it as a "scam" if crypto would be accepted here. The problem is of course, LL demands exorbitant fees on any monetary exchange - from the cut they take on the MP,  to buying and selling on the exchange which is owned, operated and controlled by them. Crypto would destroy their hold on the money market. That I do not think LL will ever allow. But they need to find a way to live with it, or at least start thinking about it.

Once the Metaverse does catch up, and it will, sooner than most think, and LL is still where it is, then SL will slowly fade into oblivion. Distributed Systems & Blockchain are part of this - even if not used for Crypto and NFT.

So maybe NFT's are not the way to go, and maybe many here see Crypto as a "scam" - i happen to know quite a few people who have made millions in Crypto..and when I say millions I do mean Millions in USD. 

Perhaps I am totally wrong, but I do not get why in SL we are always so resistant to the newer technologies (unless of course it is Mesh clothing!). I think LL needs a rethink, and a very deep and quick one at that. Cause they are right now in a place where Zuckerberg et.al. will pull one of his moves to buy them out and kill it off, or just target it. 

Second Life can be a metaverse leader and innovator. It has the infrastructure but it needs a lot of upgrading and change. Or it can even Disrupt the current Metaverse market with a bit of flair and solid thinking.

I just remember the ludicrous situation which LL was in during the first year of Covid, where it had no land to sell. We are talking about virtual land here, not a townhouse on the Upper East Side in NYC. All the excuses of moving to the cloud etc.. and etc.. were beyond ludicrous, and points to a lack of vision which I hope Rosedale does something about.

Again this MHO. I respect all those who disagree. But dissing BlockChain & Distributed Systems or just dismissing Crypto - well it is too late for that. NFT's may still find a use which is credible and legal. I would not dismiss that technology too fast as well. Though in ownership of the C/M/T system which exists a form of NFT does exist. 

Apologies for babbling. Have an Awesome Day!

 

[Coffee Pancake]

3 hours ago, TaraSimone Sixpence said:

1. Distributed Systems & Blockchain - these are not going away. They are incredibly versatile and important especially in AI development. 

blockchain is a distributed system

only a tiny percentage of distributed systems involve blockchains

AI and blockchain have nothing in common, that's buzzword bingo.

It's like cloud commodore 64 .. so cool !

3 hours ago, TaraSimone Sixpence said:

1. Crypto Currencies - There are many here, and out in real who just push this aside. Govt. Regulations, inability to actually use it as we use CC's, money laundering, huge market fluctuations etc. and etc. (The fact that an exchange was hacked means nothing - Insurance companies and Hospitals are hacked all the time. Means you have to be incredibly careful with your Cyber Security.)

Crypto is an environmental disaster and a speculative ponzi scheme at best.

 Technical limitations aside (it can never become a defacto currency for entirely practical reasons), crypto presents a threat to state sovereignty and undermines the public purse, it will be banned long before it has the foothold to compete.

We are starting to see state level crackdowns outlawing crypto, they wont just ban this coin or that coin, they will ban them all.

The only game left is hot potato.

3 hours ago, TaraSimone Sixpence said:

1. NFT - Possibly something no one really needs. Possibly, as in all technologies in their infancy, something that has to grow and define valuable uses. 

 

Please catch up.

3 hours ago, TaraSimone Sixpence said:

The point is LL and SL can no longer ignore the Metaverse - nor the fundamental aspects at which the Metaverse will operate. Rosedale knows this and possibly why he did come back on - to avoid the "dystopia" and yet lead into a better user experience.

That's not what motivates any of the parties involved. 

3 hours ago, TaraSimone Sixpence said:

However, SL as it stands, no matter how much one loves it, no matter how advanced one think it is, can either sit back and watch and really lose the entire market or get their act together.

We have already lost. We are not part of the metaverse future, that market will be dominated by players with astronomical budgets to burn capturing a market they get to define.

If we become more than an annoyance or novelty, then you can expect us to get bought and retired. 

 

3 hours ago, TaraSimone Sixpence said:

Crypto would destroy their hold on the money market. That I do not think LL will ever allow. But they need to find a way to live with it, or at least start thinking about it.

So why would LL allow crypto .. why would actual govts allow crypto .. You might think they have no choice, but they do and can change the rules to suit their goals.