The "No Mod" thing has to go... ( Rant Season 2022 )

[Tama Suki]

20 minutes ago, LilNosferatu said:

Aside from the amateur fisherman here...

I do think that items such as clothes should be mod-allowed. As long as it's copyable and there's a redelivery system in place, creators shouldn't need to be bothered for a new copy if the item gets messed up. In RL we can buy jeans from the store and paint on them or rip them up, so I don't think it should be that big of a deal to allow mod permissions.

If they don't allow mod, I think creators/vendors should be more proactive in making the permissions clear in the ad or description, and like Rowan said, put all available colors/patterns/options in the demo so buyers know exactly what they're getting.

I don't think LL themselves would necessarily do anything about that, but creators could do better to help these issues. Make the product's permissions clear and visible, give out accurate demos so customers can be sure they're making informed decisions, etc. Maybe even be more vigilant in making sure colors are more accurate on product ads (such as lipsticks/makeup where specific shades are important to know).

And on the other side of that same coin, customers could stop giving their business to brands that don't display their permissions or make them difficult to find, have incomplete demos, inaccurate vendor ads, etc. As long as those creators are still making sales and doing well, they may not really care to change their ways.

From what I saw in the marketplace, all the authors declare if an object is mod, copy, trans.
And they also give an accurate description of their product.
Who does not do it is not worthy of my attention because it is evident that he is incompetent and cannot offer quality products.
As for the permissions issued if it's about avatar clothing I don't see why it shouldn't be mod. As a creator and seller and also a compulsive customer I guarantee you that releasing that type of product in MOD is the best thing to do. Another thing you need to understand is that you are a customer and nothing more.
You can only claim something if the product you buy is a scam or if you pay a lot for it and it doesn't work well.
Otherwise you have no other right than to leave a bad review.

[Kathlen Onyx]

21 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The reality for anyone who has actually spent any time on the marketplace is that there is a lot of items out there that are not as advertised. Similar to R/L in a way but worse because we are not allowed to publicly out a creator who uses false advertising nor can we in most cases get our monies back. The S/L marketplace is in a lot of ways very anti consumer. Since that is the case it would at least be nice to be able to modify a purchased product to a degree that it is not a total loss.

LL removed the Gacha's but still lots of Gotcha's out there.

I can't say I disagree with you but that's a totally different issue.  If this issue was fixed would you feel differently about no mod items?

[LilNosferatu]

23 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

we are not allowed to publicly out a creator who uses false advertising

We can't? Do you mean on the forums here, or anywhere? That sounds extremely anti-consumer. 😵 

[Finite]

9 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

From what I saw in the marketplace, all the authors declare if an object is mod, copy, trans.
And they also give an accurate description of their product.
Who does not do it is not worthy of my attention because it is evident that he is incompetent and cannot offer quality products.
As for the permissions issued if it's about avatar clothing I don't see why it shouldn't be mod. As a creator and seller and also a compulsive customer I guarantee you that releasing that type of product in MOD is the best thing to do. Another thing you need to understand is that you are a customer and nothing more.
You can only claim something if the product you buy is a scam or if you pay a lot for it and it doesn't work well.
Otherwise you have no other right than to leave a bad review.

MP makes up maybe 5%-10% of my shopping. I think most people shop at events and just use MP when looking for something specific. MP is generally a last resort for me personally. I buy most things at events or in store. I think in the MP you are required to mark the permissions when you list something. But in world it's not a requirement or anything. At least not that I am aware of.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Finite

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, LilNosferatu said:

We can't? Do you mean on the forums here, or anywhere? That sounds extremely anti-consumer. 😵 

Definitely not on the forums and most groups I have seen do not take kindly to people calling out a Creator either. In some way I do understand it as plenty of times the issue is with the consumer rather then the product but we are still stuck for a happy medium. 

[Qie Niangao]

If an ad for an item doesn't specify permissions, it should be changed to full perm, per force, no questions asked.

But if they say it's no-mod. that's just how it goes. We should avoid those creators, but it's going to take a long, long time to break them of their superstitions.

I've been happy lately to pay (a lot) extra for fatpacks I won't really use, just to get the mod permission those fatpacks are granted by some creators. It's probably wrong to so richly reward them for not making the individual packs modifiable, but at least they're doing something.

Re scripts: Some scripts really shouldn't be open source, even if they're available free with copy+transfer permissions. It's not always about the market, sometimes its just being responsible. Griefers can do all kinds of awful stuff with scripts, but there's no reason for the rest of us scripters to hand them a loaded weapon.

[Tama Suki]

8 hours ago, HarutoYoko said:

You do know that SL is an IP in itself right? That is why SL states in some of the rules that you own your products but you don't have an iron grip around it around here. If you don't believe me, remove your products from the store, and then demand SL to take the items out of everyone's inventory that purchased it.

That meeting room will look a little like this:

You are very nice and nice especially when you admit to using a viewer that gives you the possibility to illegally copy the work of others.
However, going back to your ignorant statement on the IP, do you know that when you accept the tos of any social network everything you put in it does not belong to you but to the social network you gave your signature to?
Do you think I do not take into consideration that the contract I entered into with Linden Lab means this? Do you think that creatives who earn in a month what you earn in a year don't know this thing?

Edited January 15, 2022 by Tama Suki

[Rowan Amore]

16 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

As for the permissions issued if it's about avatar clothing I don't see why it shouldn't be mod. As a creator and seller and also a compulsive customer I guarantee you that releasing that type of product in MOD is the best thing to do. 

Gosh, that is exactly what the OP said that you kept arguing about and why I mentioned rereading the OP.  I AM rolling my eyes now.

2 hours ago, HarutoYoko said:

Man, when you purchase some clothes that are suppose to be black but are actually gray.. 

 

[Tama Suki]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Gosh, that is exactly what the OP said that you kept arguing about and why I mentioned rereading the OP.  I AM rolling my eyes now.

Again Rowan you completely missed the thread. Would please read the title of the thread we are talking it?

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Tama Suki said:

Again Rowan you completely missed the thread. Would please read the title of the thread we are talking it?

What I posted was the first line in the OP.  

I'm not missing anything.  Trust me.  Neither is anyone else.

[Tama Suki]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

What I posted was the first line in the OP.  

I'm not missing anything.  Trust me.  Neither is anyone else.

So let me get this straight.
Do you agree that Linden Lab should fundamentally change the permission rules it has implemented?

[CaithLynnSayes]

53 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

I know little about TOS and nothing about DMCA but I know how things work between me and the marketplace.

Hey now, Are you admitting you've pressed the "I Agree" button when signing up without actually reading that long and legal document? Why i never!

 

PS, a study has been made once that on average people spend 1.5 to 2 seconds between getting ToS presented to them and clicking the "i accept" button... For shame!  > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hb2oMlRI0I&t=29s

 

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

So let me get this straight.
Do you agree that Linden Lab should fundamentally change the permission rules it has implemented?

Not what I said at all but again, you know that.

With that said, I'm done although I'm sure I'll be seeing you back here later in some capacity.  

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

Hello creators. Please please please, keep selling your items as No Mod for whatever reason. That way people are less likely to buy your stuff and more likely to buy stuff from a vague acquaintance of mine who does sell their stuff Mod. Cheers!

[Tama Suki]

2 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

Hey now, Are you admitting you've pressed the "I Agree" button when signing up without actually reading that long and legal document? Why i never!

 

PS, a study has been made once that on average people spend 1.5 to 2 seconds between getting ToS presented to them and clicking the "i accept" button... For shame!  > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hb2oMlRI0I&t=29s

 

OMG CaithLynnSayes even though we are from different countries I know for sure that we are subject to and protected by the same rules.
We don't live in an anime.
Please spare me these boring useless notifications.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

2 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

2 hours ago, Chris Nova said:

Everything should be mod.

This would destroy the market for scripts.

Personally,I'm totally fine with scripts being No Mod. Because, yes indeed, it might break some things. As long as they are in objects that are Mod, because, especially clothes are fine without scripts, after you've set the textures to your liking. People would carry around fewer to none of those totally unnecessary scripts.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

OMG....I might regret saying this but Tama actually makes some good points and is having a discussion on this thread instead of simply writing nonsense and trolling. 

 

20 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

You are very nice and nice especially when you admit to using a viewer that gives you the possibility to illegally copy the work of others.
However, going back to your ignorant statement on the IP, do you know that when you accept the toss of any social network everything you put in it does not belong to you but to the social network you gave your signature to?
Do you think I do not take into consideration that the contract I entered into with Linden Lab means this? Do you think that creatives who earn in a month what you earn in a year don't know this thing?

 

ANNNNDDDDD there you go.

[Tama Suki]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Not what I said at all but again, you know that.

With that said, I'm done although I'm sure I'll be seeing you back here later in some capacity.  

Still, I'm starting to understand you.
When you understand that you are wrong you do not admit it and you go away puffing with the promise that you will find me somewhere to catch my mistake.
But look, I don't need to find you wrong to communicate with you.
On the contrary. I believe that you are a pleasant person.

[Kathlen Onyx]

10 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

 

ANNNNDDDDD there you go.

Ok, I was wrong...haha

[CaithLynnSayes]

10 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

OMG CaithLynnSayes even though we are from different countries I know for sure that we are subject to and protected by the same rules.
We don't live in an anime.
Please spare me these boring useless notifications.

I just wonder... Do you hear yourself speaking? Or in this case read back your own words sometimes? Earlier you talked about the permission system and seemed to confuse it with Copyright (law). You also seem to give the indication you are a creator yourself and have things up for sale (might just get curious enough to seek that out one day) ut almost in the same breath you admit you know nothing about DMCA. That sorta by definition disqualifies you from speaking on the subject, even though i won't tell you to zip it, i'm all for freedom of expression . but in all honesty, i do think you're talking just a little bit out of your behind here and see things as you'd like them to see instead of how they are. sorry, just making an observation. change my mind.

Again, i urge you to look up copyright Law, IP and DMCA. they are interesting subjects.

[Marigold Devin]

1 minute ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

I just wonder... Do you hear yourself speaking? Or in this case read back your own words sometimes? Earlier you talked about the permission system and seemed to confuse it with Copyright (law). You also seem to give the indication you are a creator yourself and have things up for sale (might just get curious enough to seek that out one day) ut almost in the same breath you admit you know nothing about DMCA. That sorta by definition disqualifies you from speaking on the subject, even though i won't tell you to zip it, i'm all for freedom of expression . but in all honesty, i do think you're talking just a little bit out of your behind here and see things as you'd like them to see instead of how they are. sorry, just making an observation. change my mind.

Again, i urge you to look up copyright Law, IP and DMCA. they are interesting subjects.

They've fished you in today. 

Don't take the bait. 

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Ok, I was wrong...haha

Always remember...ya can't hide crazy or at least not for long.  

[CaithLynnSayes]

Just now, Marigold Devin said:

They've fished you in today. 

Don't take the bait. 

Meh, i felt kinda hungry and wanted a nibble  

[LittleMe Jewell]

 

Holy crap - only 3 hours since the topic started and already on page 4.  

Don't have time to read it all right now, but I will say that this topic has been talked to death -- just search the forums for older stuff.

Edited January 14, 2022 by LittleMe Jewell

[Kathlen Onyx]

21 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

OMG CaithLynnSayes even though we are from different countries I know for sure that we are subject to and protected by the same rules.
We don't live in an anime.
Please spare me these boring useless notifications.

Let me correct this for you. Maybe that will help you see why you are not accepted on the forum or anything you say is taken seriously.