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The "No Mod" thing has to go... ( Rant Season 2022 )


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12 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

Everything should be mod.

I also don't like some no-modify items, but I can't agree with this.

8 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

No it wouldnt. The market will be fine

It would make the market non-profitable for scripters as it would be easy to copy the scripts.

Think of it as giving out source files (e.g. blender, maya) of all 3D models in SL. That would also destroy the market.

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2 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Now you've backpedaled.

Please re-read the whole thread from the beginning.
Our client clearly established this scripting issue well in advance.
Please don't waste our time.

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1 minute ago, tomm55 said:

I also don't like some no-modify items, but I can't agree with this.

It would make the market non-profitable for scripters as it would be easy to copy the scripts.

Think of it as giving out source files (e.g. blender, maya) of all 3D models in SL. That would also destroy the market.

Might as well give out the source files when most are sold for pennies.

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I sort of agree with the "no mod has to go" but i also live in reality, so it won't go anywhere anytime soon. The "problem" is very simple. A creator is going to sell you items per colour. If you want more colours, buy more. You don't mod them, you pay if you want something else. That's what this has grown into over the years. It is doing business at it's purest. Fat chance of LL ever going to suddenly make all things that are no mod, mod all of the sudden. Creators are going to go straight for LL's throat, possibly with lawsuits for messing with their IP. Also, LL won't do this because they get a cut of each sale (from MP at least). It's pure business. So, sorry to break it to you, but, it's not going to happen.

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3 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

Might as well give out the source files when most are sold for pennies.

Somebody could then use your source files to sell your product cheaper than you, or for free.

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44 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

I don't want to read all the delirium.
If you buy an item you know if it is mod or not.
If you paid it less than 800L$ and you knew it was no mod I don't think you have that many whining moans to scream.

Most places don't even let you know if it's mod or not and the same vendors get upset when you ask what the permissions are.... This has been one of my biggest gripes ever since mesh became the primary building method. No mod made sense for prims since someone could easily recreate your work if you made it modifiable, but it makes zero sense for mesh other than to hide the fact you didn't actually make it. At least that is my perception when I see no mod on clothes.

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3 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

I sort of agree with the "no mod has to go" but i also live in reality, so it won't go anywhere anytime soon. The "problem" is very simple. A creator is going to sell you items per colour. If you want more colours, buy more. You don't mod them, you pay if you want something else. That's what this has grown into over the years. It is doing business at it's purest. Fat chance of LL ever going to suddenly make all things that are no mod, mod all of the sudden. Creators are going to go straight for LL's throat, possibly with lawsuits for messing with their IP. Also, LL won't do this because they get a cut of each sale (from MP at least). It's pure business. So, sorry to break it to you, but, it's not going to happen.

What I think with all due respect to Yoko is that if you buy an item that clearly says it is NO MOD then you can't complain. Same as real life, the rules don't change one iota.
Of course if you paid 5kL$ you can complain if you find any flaws in it.
But if you spent a quarter on it I don't see why you have to whine loudly like that.
You have met a creator who does not satisfy you and you will remember his name and avoid him next time.

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9 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

But I don't understand why a lot of people turn their anger to the permit rules that the LL has issued and that seem to work fine to me.
How much did you pay for the product that pissed you off so much? 8.000L $?

They work fine for you....as a creator, even though by your own admission  you changed your own product permissions to mod which then begs the question of why you are unable to see why some of us upset with the products that have no-mod restrictions.

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Mkay, i said i sorta agree with OP, but not fully. I do understand the business side of it. But what you just said...

Just now, Tama Suki said:

if you paid 5kL$ you can complain if you find any flaws in it.
But if you spent a quarter on it I don't see why you have to whine loudly like that.

...is kinda weird. What exactly is the threshold amount where i am entitled to really start dishing out complaints to a creator? I wanna write that number down on a post-it note and stick to my monitor ;) 

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3 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

But I don't understand why a lot of people turn their anger to the permit rules that the LL has issued and that seem to work fine to me.
How much did you pay for the product that pissed you off so much? 8.000L $?

I go to LL because they can make rules that apply across the board, it doesn't matter if a product seller has never logged back into SL in years. A lot of stuff in my inventory remains broken even though I can fix it. SL is probably going to be around for a long time, so that is a lot of potential for many other older items to break. Honestly, it's basically what you said earlier. Once we purchase a product it is under our care, if we break it, or it breaks from SL updates, you as a creator are under no obligation to Fix or Maintain any product you don't want to. We as a consumer own the responsibility of it but we do not own the rights. It works here similar to how it does in real life.

If we purchase a product we can tear it, paint it, add sparkles to it, etc.. But as long as we aren't selling it we have the right to modify as we please.  But if we break the product due to our tinkering a company has no obligation to fix it. Hell if they rule a product is outdated they have no obligation to fix it.

The price it doesn't even matter when it comes to some creators. I could purchase an item for 1000000L$ but "No mod means No Mod" 

 

Short Version: "If you products break, how can you fix it if the whole thing is no mod and the creator no longer supports it?" 

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2 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

Mkay, i said i sorta agree with OP, but not fully. I do understand the business side of it. But what you just said...

...is kinda weird. What exactly is the threshold amount where i am entitled to really start dishing out complaints to a creator? I wanna write that number down on a post-it note and stick to my monitor ;) 

Lets make it 20,000,000L$ :D

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2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

They work fine for you....as a creator, even though by your own admission  you changed your own product permissions to mod which then begs the question of why you are unable to see why some of us upset with the products that have no-mod restrictions.

I have said this several times that as far as I am concerned after having such an experience I have started releasing all my mod products. The important thing is that they are not trans.
But I also think that when you buy a product you must be aware of the purchase you make and understand if it will be okay to buy it no-mod.
If it says no-mod you know it, so don't complain afterwards unless there are serious malfunctions.

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4 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

Mkay, i said i sorta agree with OP, but not fully. I do understand the business side of it. But what you just said...

...is kinda weird. What exactly is the threshold amount where i am entitled to really start dishing out complaints to a creator? I wanna write that number down on a post-it note and stick to my monitor ;) 

Remember the 800 rule ;)

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1 minute ago, Tama Suki said:

If it says no-mod you know it, so don't complain afterwards unless there are serious malfunctions.

I believe this is part of the issue. A lot of places don't state the permissions. Specifically with clothing items. If you go to any event currently like 99% of the clothing doesn't state what the permissions are.

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9 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

What I think with all due respect to Yoko is that if you buy an item that clearly says it is NO MOD then you can't complain. Same as real life, the rules don't change one iota.
Of course if you paid 5kL$ you can complain if you find any flaws in it.
But if you spent a quarter on it I don't see why you have to whine loudly like that.
You have met a creator who does not satisfy you and you will remember his name and avoid him next time.

A lot of products don't feature this however, like a LOT of products. They will not tell you outright if a item is Mod/No-Mod so you'll have to take a guess sometimes. For the most part it's assume it's No mod.

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2 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

I have said this several times that as far as I am concerned after having such an experience I have started releasing all my mod products. The important thing is that they are not trans.
But I also think that when you buy a product you must be aware of the purchase you make and understand if it will be okay to buy it no-mod.
If it says no-mod you know it, so don't complain afterwards unless there are serious malfunctions.

You need to reread the OP.  They knew it was no mod and they did demo it but the black wasn't in the demo.  The black was more dark grey and they were unable to mod.  They did what everyone does.  Demo and hope for the best.  If your aren't going to make it mod, then ALL colors should be in the demo.

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1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I've never had an issue with color mismatch between ad copy and the actual item. If a product's permissions are too restrictive for me, I don't buy it.

Strange that as I see it all the time. Currently I am looking for and have bought 3 lipstick sets for a particular shade of pink to match an outfit. All three showed the shade I was looking for in the ad and since the demo of the product did not actually give the full colour range of the set including the shade I wanted, I bought all three on the assumption the shade in question was included but when I actually tried, none of the three (different creators) contained the shade as shown in the ad. And these are certainly not the first instances of that being the case.

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1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Strange that as I see it all the time. Currently I am looking for and have bought 3 lipstick sets for a particular shade of pink to match an outfit. All three showed the shade I was looking for in the ad and since the demo of the product did not actually give the full colour range of the set including the shade I wanted, I bought all three on the assumption the shade in question was included but when I actually tried, none of the three (different creators) contained the shade as shown in the ad. And these are certainly not the first instances of that being the case.

I have had that experience with pretty much any red clothing item.  The red shown in the ad yet not available in the demo, turns out to be not the red I was expecting.

 

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Just now, tomm55 said:

Just curious, what did you mean by this? What is in ToS?

The TOS for your intellectual copyright will tell you that you own your products but if you put it here you got to play by SL rules. So you own it but you don't have an iron grip around it. For example I have some items that we're leaked! LL Won't really remove a product if someone leaks it from other peoples inventory, even if you DMCA it they'd have to take it up with the Leaker.

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