The "No Mod" thing has to go... ( Rant Season 2022 )

[Tama Suki]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

You need to reread the OP.  They knew it was no mod and they did demo it but the black wasn't in the demo.  The black was more dark grey and they were unable to mod.  They did what everyone does.  Demo and hope for the best.  If your aren't going to make it mod, then ALL colors should be in the demo.

Yes, I remember what she wrote.
Maybe you haven't read the whole context.
However we both didn't read how much Yoko paid for that product for sure.
What price would you set for hearing a whimper?
And how many tears does it take to change the rules of the game at Linden Lab?

[CaithLynnSayes]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

If your aren't going to make it mod, then ALL colors should be in the demo.

I will get behind this. It's really not that hard to just stick a (what i like to call) rigged "demo floater" to your items and let them be fully functional as a fatpack so your potential buyer can see all the colours and options it has. I ranted about that in a blog post once.

And for the love of all the things cats love to shove off the edge of a coffee table, DO NOT use those freaking timed demo scripts. Use those and i avoid you like you have the next COVID variant! Seriously, don't get me started on those or you'll be stuck with me all night, possibly get drunk and rant some more about random stuff i mildy hate  

[Finite]

1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Baking "tint" into a texture properly requires having pre-baked texture and/or materials images and UV-maps. It's not as simple as selecting a new color from the edit window. Some creators do provide those textures and maps, and charge handsomely for them. I think that's entirely appropriate, as considerable effort goes into creating them, and the creators lose the ability to sell different colors for a fee.

If you want that level of modification, search for clothing kits, not finished clothing. To get good results, you might need to work with an external image editor.

I've never had an issue with color mismatch between ad copy and the actual item. If a product's permissions are too restrictive for me, I don't buy it.

 

The maps aren't required for doing basic tints or even for adding some roughness or specs to the piece. I do this quite regularly. They're helpful for sure but not required. And I would see no reason why someone wouldn't just include the maps in a folder full perm. They would only work for that mesh and have no value to anyone other than customers who has purchased the product and wanted to personalize it. Worst case scenario, someone makes a custom color/texture changer hud for that one piece and tries to sell they hud to a limited clientele of people who purchased the product. I've bought a couple of pieces recently that included full perm maps that weren't for the intended purpose of reselling. The product was still no trans.

[Tama Suki]

35 minutes ago, tomm55 said:

I also don't like some no-modify items, but I can't agree with this.

It would make the market non-profitable for scripters as it would be easy to copy the scripts.

Think of it as giving out source files (e.g. blender, maya) of all 3D models in SL. That would also destroy the market.

Yoko wasn't talking about scripts anyway.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Tama Suki said:

Yes, I remember what she wrote.
Maybe you haven't read the whole context.
However we both didn't read how much Yoko paid for that product for sure.
What price would you set for hearing a whimper?
And how many tears does it take to change the rules of the game at Linden Lab?

Price shouldn't matter at all IMO.  If you make a demo and your product is No mod, all colors should be available to preview.  That's not changing any game whatsoever.  It's still using the options LL has given us yet making something more useable.  

Why should money make any difference?

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

Yes, I remember what she wrote.
Maybe you haven't read the whole context.
However we both didn't read how much Yoko paid for that product for sure.
What price would you set for hearing a whimper?
And how many tears does it take to change the rules of the game at Linden Lab?

You don't seem to be getting it Tama, the price is secondary. Consider the time, effort, wasted L$ and general inconvenience that every shopper goes through with the slew of items in the marketplace.

[Tama Suki]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Price shouldn't matter at all IMO.  If you make a demo and your product is No mod, all colors should be available to preview.  That's not changing any game whatsoever.  It's still using the options LL has given us yet making something more useable.  

Why should money make any difference?

I thought you would have given a smarter answer but maybe my question was wrong.
Then I rephrase it.
The title of the "flame" of the shrewd Yoko (account born just over two weeks ago) is <The "No Mod" thing has to go ... (Rant Season 2022)>
It would be interesting to know how much she paid for that product to understand why she feels the need to change the copyright rules that Linden Lab has developed.

[CaithLynnSayes]

Just now, Tama Suki said:

I thought you would have given a smarter answer but maybe my question was wrong.
Then I rephrase it.
The title of the "flame" of the shrewd Yoko (account born just over two weeks ago) is <The "No Mod" thing has to go ... (Rant Season 2022)>
It would be interesting to know how much she paid for that product to understand why she feels the need to change the copyright rules that Linden Lab has developed.

1) Why does the age of this account matter?

2) SL didn't "develop" copyright rules. Copyright is pretty much an international law. SL/LL can't just make up their own, lol. This is IP, Intellectual Property. go Google it and let your mind be blown  

 

[HarutoYoko]

1 minute ago, Tama Suki said:

I thought you would have given a smarter answer but maybe my question was wrong.
Then I rephrase it.
The title of the "flame" of the shrewd Yoko (account born just over two weeks ago) is <The "No Mod" thing has to go ... (Rant Season 2022)>
It would be interesting to know how much she paid for that product to understand why she feels the need to change the copyright rules that Linden Lab has developed.

Uh? I don't think how much I spent on an item matters i've spent thousands of RL money on No-Mod products some of them are currently broken.. The only thing that was mod back then was HAIR consistently, now a few stores are actually doing the whole Mod thing and are mainstream.. But if I spent a 2 dollars on a silverspoon and wanted to dip it in black latex I should have that ability to.. Just like the creator should have the ability to not refund / support / fix my new latex dipped spoon.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Tama Suki said:

I thought you would have given a smarter answer but maybe my question was wrong.
 

And there we go.  I gave the correct answer, you didn't have a rebuttal so you sink to making derogatory comments.  

What I said stands as the my answer as I'm sure you know.  

Your comment, however, about anyone trying to change whatever copyright rules you're talking about, makes no sense and isn't what anyone is trying to do.

But tilt on, Don Quixote.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

I thought you would have given a smarter answer but maybe my question was wrong.
Then I rephrase it.
The title of the "flame" of the shrewd Yoko (account born just over two weeks ago) is <The "No Mod" thing has to go ... (Rant Season 2022)>
It would be interesting to know how much she paid for that product to understand why she feels the need to change the copyright rules that Linden Lab has developed.

Now you're:

[HarutoYoko]

1 minute ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

1) Why does the age of this account matter?

2) SL didn't "develop" copyright rules. Copyright is pretty much an international law. SL/LL can't just make up their own, lol. This is IP, Intellectual Property. go Google it and let your mind be blown  

 

The Court of Linden Labs lmao

[Tama Suki]

1 minute ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

1) Why does the age of this account matter?

2) SL didn't "develop" copyright rules. Copyright is pretty much an international law. SL/LL can't just make up their own, lol. This is IP, Intellectual Property. go Google it and let your mind be blown  

 

The copyright rules inside SL are in the build tool, I don't know if you've ever opened it.

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

The copyright rules inside SL are in the build tool, I don't know if you've ever opened it.

Those are the permission system and nothing more.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Permission

Which is entirely different than...

 

https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/intellectual-property-infringement-notification-policy

Edited January 14, 2022 by Rowan Amore

[HarutoYoko]

4 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

The copyright rules inside SL are in the build tool, I don't know if you've ever opened it.

You do know that SL is an IP in itself right? That is why SL states in some of the rules that you own your products but you don't have an iron grip around it around here. If you don't believe me, remove your products from the store, and then demand SL to take the items out of everyone's inventory that purchased it.

That meeting room will look a little like this:

Edited January 14, 2022 by HarutoYoko
Updated it with meme

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

The copyright rules inside SL are in the build tool, I don't know if you've ever opened it.

You do realize that the S/L ToS is not a reflection of the actual copyright rules as governed by the DMCA right? The ToS in some ways goes above and beyond those.

[Tama Suki]

1 minute ago, HarutoYoko said:

You do know that SL is an IP in itself right? That is why SL states in some of the rules that you own your products but you don't have an iron grip around it around here.

I just know that LL gives me permission to adjust my settings on my products that I sell to you and you cannot break those settings.
If you don't like those rules and you are a lot smarter than me, don't come and whine and be a copybotter that maybe you are better off.

[Tama Suki]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

You do realize that the S/L ToS is not a reflection of the actual copyright rules as governed by the DMCA right? The ToS in some ways goes above and beyond those.

I know little about TOS and nothing about DMCA but I know how things work between me and the marketplace.

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Tama Suki said:

I just know that LL gives me permission to adjust my settings on my products that I sell to you and you cannot break those settings.
If you don't like those rules and you are a lot smarter than me, don't come and whine and be a copybotter that maybe you are better off.

NO ONE has mentioned breaking permissions ffs.   They are ASKING for more creators to use MOD/COPY/NO TRANS or  at least MOD. 

[Kathlen Onyx]

OMG....I might regret saying this but Tama actually makes some good points and is having a discussion on this thread instead of simply writing nonsense and trolling. 

Simple solution. If you think the items that you buy should only be mod then only buy mod items. If you can't see the permissions on the item then don't give the creator your business.  No one actually does this though. They continue to buy these items and then complain about it. The creator has the right to set whatever permissions they want on the item. It's up to you to decide if the money you spend for it is worth that or not. 

I wish people would speak more with their wallet.  It's like asking for a refund for a steak dinner saying it was terrible yet you ate it anyway. Must not have been bad enough not to eat it which brings your credibility down to zero. 

[Tama Suki]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

NO ONE has mentioned breaking permissions ffs.   They are ASKING for more creators to use MOD/COPY/NO TRANS or  at least MOD. 

So I would like to create a union of creators who claim their rights, especially not to be bothered by customers buying items clearly declared NO-MOD for the cost of no more than 100L$.

[LilNosferatu]

Aside from the amateur fisherman here...

I do think that items such as clothes should be mod-allowed. As long as it's copyable and there's a redelivery system in place, creators shouldn't need to be bothered for a new copy if the item gets messed up. In RL we can buy jeans from the store and paint on them or rip them up, so I don't think it should be that big of a deal to allow mod permissions.

If they don't allow mod, I think creators/vendors should be more proactive in making the permissions clear in the ad or description, and like Rowan said, put all available colors/patterns/options in the demo so buyers know exactly what they're getting.

I don't think LL themselves would necessarily do anything about that, but creators could do better to help these issues. Make the product's permissions clear and visible, give out accurate demos so customers can be sure they're making informed decisions, etc. Maybe even be more vigilant in making sure colors are more accurate on product ads (such as lipsticks/makeup where specific shades are important to know).

And on the other side of that same coin, customers could stop giving their business to brands that don't display their permissions or make them difficult to find, have incomplete demos, inaccurate vendor ads, etc. As long as those creators are still making sales and doing well, they may not really care to change their ways.

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

OMG....I might regret saying this but Tama actually makes some good points and is having a discussion on this thread instead of simply writing nonsense and trolling. 

Simple solution. If you think the items that you buy should only be mod then only buy mod items. If you can't see the permissions on the item then don't give the creator your business.  No one actually does this though. They continue to buy these items and then complain about it. The creator has the right to set whatever permissions they want on the item. It's up to you to decide if the money you spend for it is worth that or not. 

I wish people would speak more with their wallet.  It's like asking for a refund for a steak dinner saying it was terrible yet you ate it anyway. Must not have been bad enough not to eat it which brings your credibility down to zero. 

The reality for anyone who has actually spent any time on the marketplace is that there is a lot of items out there that are not as advertised. Similar to R/L in a way but worse because we are not allowed to publicly out a creator who uses false advertising nor can we in most cases get our monies back. The S/L marketplace is in a lot of ways very anti consumer. Since that is the case it would at least be nice to be able to modify a purchased product to a degree that it is not a total loss.

LL removed the Gacha's but still lots of Gotcha's out there.

[Rowan Amore]

[Tama Suki]

18 minutes ago, LilNosferatu said:

Aside from the amateur fisherman here

You call me "amateur fisherman" and I don't take it badly.
I would never allow myself to dent the envelope you closed yourself in.
For as long as I manage to stay on this forum I will continue to try to be useful.

Was not for me "amateur firsherman"? lol, sorry then you know I'm used to being treated badly by you 😅

Edited January 14, 2022 by Tama Suki