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6 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

There's actually a fetish about this, called "objectification". People get their kicks by being turned into, and treated like, a statue or a piece of furniture.

Well that's what I've learned today. 

I'm not sure I'm quite ready to have my drawers pulled open and shut just yet.

Edited by Marigold Devin
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2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Forniphilia is the fetish in question, it is often paired with BDSM themes and may include objectification (literal and metaphoric).

In SL .. this could mean twisting your avatar into a chair or table, or literally swapping your body out for something else entirely. Toss in a little RLV and traps and ... SHAZAM ! YOURE A LATEX TOASTER .. F O R E V E R 

I can't say I get it .. but being somewhat involved in RLVa development and having waay more patience for support than kitty, has introduced me to so many .. um .. things.

Drama classes at school must really have traumatised some kids at school. This post has triggered off a memory where we all had to pretend to be something inanimate and the others had to interact with it. I had forgotten about this for ... (counts on fingers and toes) ... 44 years. 

Today is going to be an education. This thread has set the tone.

 

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6 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

There's actually a fetish about this, called "objectification". People get their kicks by being turned into, and treated like, a statue or a piece of furniture.

Kicks indeed :)

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That is exactly my point. They never did a real effort to make a good standard. LL let the mesh body boom happen without taking the lead.
LL tossed mesh in for building and land beautification, because land was and is their main income not really for avatar beautification. In that field they were pretty much clueless until Strawberry stepped in. But at that time the merchants had set their own (hardly compatible) standards.
Result:
- Clothes have to come for all kind of different bodies, nothing fits instantly. There is no standard but dozens of them.
- Half the population wears constantly something around the neck to cover the still existing gap (in too many cases).
- You almost need classes for something simple as applying underwear.
- Finding decently fitting socks (as an example) takes hours and dozens of demos to wade through.
- Clothes like gowns look pretty until the moment you start to walk or dance.
 

Edited by Sid Nagy
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6 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

That is exactly my point. They never did a real effort to make a good standard. LL let the mesh body boom happen without taking the lead.

They didn't think we would be using rigged mesh for clothing to anything like the degree we did.

LL famously don't drink their own coffee, don't understand why anyone else drinks coffee and are franky amazed that we're chugging the stuff year after year.

They have been trying to be more inworld and more active .. but they're still staggeringly out of touch.

6 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

- Clothes have to come for all kind of different bodies, nothing fits instantly. There is no standard but dozens of them.

People come in all shapes and sized, it wouldn't be practical to have a single standard body that covered all the bases.

Although if we have a standard mesh body from LL, then it can be used as a basis for derivates. 

6 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

- Clothes like gowns look pretty until the moment you start to walk or dance.

The only way this can be made to work is if dress creators rig, weight and animate their dresses rather than just tossing the mesh into SL and hoping the end users body/shape/AO combo isn't horrid.

There is no reason we couldn't have some truly awesome dresses.

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There are still some boundaries for SL creators to push when it comes to mesh, but then there are also some significant advancements in cloth simulation, etc. that would make a world of difference. 

For example I saw an interesting tweet recently from someone who's been messing with MLDeform ("A library for machine learning of skeletal deformations on a skinned mesh.") running in Unreal Engine and using simulation data from Marvelous Designer to train the AI.

Of course it's highly unlikely we'll be seeing anything like this in SL anytime soon, but it's nice to dream! :) 

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Skell Dagger has some good tutorials. You can read those as a female avatar too. He has images of the HUD's and where to turn om BoM, and troubleshooting. Plus a lot of detailed explaining about why and how. I prefer written posts over videos, it is so many annoying voices and all that small talk, plus it is so irritating when they go all ummm ahh hmmm before every sentence.

https://virtualbloke.com/tutorials

I think the "Activating BoM on your mesh head/body" is my favorite, because of the troubleshooting at the bottom and where to find how to turn on BoM on Legacy, lol. That is well hidden! https://virtualbloke.com/archives/3634

Also remember that you turn off BoM if you try an skin applier. It happens automatically, and have to be activated again. It is intuitive in some way, because when you intentionally use an skin applier, you do not want to use BoM anymore. But a lot of people is confused about BoM and the difference between BoM and appliers. A skin applier is like a block layer, it stops all BoM. While a BoM skin is like a canvas, and you can add numerous BoM layers over it. Plus appliers for HD makeup (heads).

And for all your eyes problems... use the included mesh eyes if they come with a head. BoM does not work properly without mesh. That is in the name, Bakes on Mesh. And Skell Dagger has that covered too.

While I give a nod to Skell Dagger for his tutorials, they are already missing the Evo X heads and the updated Belleza bodies! Things change so fast in Second Life. Suddenly it is an update or a new line or a new brand and the tutorial you find is for the body before the update. Or you use the tutorial for the Evo head and your head is updated to Evo X and your head look completely ruined when you follow the tutorial.

It is the competition, creators have to release New! Better! Updated! More functions! to stay in business.

 

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1 hour ago, Sid Nagy said:

LL let the mesh body boom happen without taking the lead.

This is what sets SL apart for me. LL builds the virtual periodic table and binds / maintains it. We decide what to do with the pieces.

I do remember hearing something about Zuckerberg preparing his hallway of captured souls for the afterlife. I am sure there is still room?

675027569_70e0d0117c56eb77a79d5e7aa4fdda23-Copy.png.697455fa7df6cccf6bac2bb17f810bfb.png

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4 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

Skell Dagger has some good tutorials. You can read those as a female avatar too. He has images of the HUD's and where to turn om BoM, and troubleshooting. Plus a lot of detailed explaining about why and how. I prefer written posts over videos, it is so many annoying voices and all that small talk, plus it is so irritating when they go all ummm ahh hmmm before every sentence.

https://virtualbloke.com/tutorials

I think the "Activating BoM on your mesh head/body" is my favorite, because of the troubleshooting at the bottom and where to find how to turn on BoM on Legacy, lol. That is well hidden! https://virtualbloke.com/archives/3634

Marianne, thanks so much for these links! I agree, it's much easier to follow the steps in written form. These are very well done, just what I needed.

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8 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

That is exactly my point. They never did a real effort to make a good standard. LL let the mesh body boom happen without taking the lead.

What makes you think Linden Lab could offer a body that meets the needs of the user better than the user? Even one user created body can't do that. The gulf between the Maitreya Petite woman and the Inithium Kupra Kups woman could not be bridged by a stock body of any sort. Even more so for men's bodies, where the two preferences are twink and steroidal colossus. 

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4 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

What makes you think Linden Lab could offer a body that meets the needs of the user better than the user? Even one user created body can't do that. The gulf between the Maitreya Petite woman and the Inithium Kupra Kups woman could not be bridged by a stock body of any sort. Even more so for men's bodies, where the two preferences are twink and steroidal colossus. 

Look what happened to the avatars in Sansar when the folks from Linden Lab were controlling the standard there.

https://blog.inf.ed.ac.uk/atate/2019/09/04/sansar-with-avatar-2-0/

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3 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

On the plus side every single one of those avatars appears to be gender neutral, but pretty awful.

image.png.b0f4e7f03fb242a5bd00b92630d813ad.png

These are... definitely pretty bad. 🤣 I never had the pleasure of experiencing Sansar.

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9 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

What makes you think Linden Lab could offer a body that meets the needs of the user better than the user? Even one user created body can't do that. The gulf between the Maitreya Petite woman and the Inithium Kupra Kups woman could not be bridged by a stock body of any sort. Even more so for men's bodies, where the two preferences are twink and steroidal colossus. 

LL did not have to create the bodies themselves, but they could have taken the lead with some mandatory specifications and rules for the creators.
But they didn't have the right persons to see the possibilities of mesh for the avatar at that moment.
But that train has left the station a long time ago and it is irreversible.
We have to live with creator bodies that all have their own standards and that comes with a jungle of fitting and not fitting attachments as clothing and heads. 
The Lab can't touch this anymore now. It would give multiple uproars from creators and customers who all have to much invested in the current situation. That could set back SL enormously, maybe close the gates.

Edited by Sid Nagy
Reminder to myself: Never post before the first coffee. Ugh.
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2 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

LL did not have to create the bodies themselves, but they could have taken the lead with some mandatory specifications and rules for the creators.
But they didn't have the right persons to see the possibilities of mesh for the avatar at that moment.
But that train has left the station a long time ago and it is irreversible.
We have to live with creator bodies that all have their own standards and that comes with a jungle of fitting and not fitting attachments as clothing and heads. 
The Lab can't touch this anymore now. It would give multiple uproars from creators and customers who all have to much invested in the current situation. That could set back SL enormously, maybe close the gates.

In about 2014, when "fitted mesh" made all-mesh avatars a practical possibility, Linden Lab asked some creators to get on board with a new system of default mesh avatars. There were private invitation-only meetings. Apparently, the creators had a lot of issues with what the Lab was proposing. The result of this were the default mesh avatars that were introduced right after Ebbe Altberg became CEO, and which were basically unusable. There's a good possibility that they were rushed out because of a new CEO campaigning for them. This was before any of the current generation of mesh bodies were introduced.

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35 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

This sounds terrible.

How do you find the total incompatibility that is now the standard?
That sucks big time in my book.
Fiddling for hours to get a new outfit together, is not exactly what my SL should be all about. Maybe it is fun for Barbie doll dress up play, but I'm no Ken type.
Some standards just would have made SL so much easier IMHO.

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Just now, Sid Nagy said:

How do you find the total incompatibility that is now the standard?
That sucks big time in my book.
Fiddling for hours to get a new outfit together, is not exactly what my SL should be all about. Maybe it is fun for Barbie doll dress up play, but I'm no Ken type.
Some standards just would have made SL so much easier IMHO.

I don't have a problem with it. I came in as a furry in the pre-mesh days where every piece required complicated and granular modding, and find this system much preferable.

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2 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

Fiddling for hours to get a new outfit together, is not exactly what my SL should be all about. Maybe it is fun for Barbie doll dress up play, but I'm no Ken type.
Some standards just would have made SL so much easier IMHO.

 

2 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

I don't have a problem with it. I came in as a furry in the pre-mesh days where every piece required complicated and granular modding, and find this system much preferable.

I am pretty much in Sid's camp on this one. It's gotten to the point that I'm setting a whole in world session aside just for assembling a new Outfit or two. (And I DO like playing dress-up! Just not this much.) I do see Blaise's point of view, but complicated avatars with one-off systems for modification and control are a major reason that I never used my dragon or my horse avatars regularly, but only as a curiosity or for some special occasion.

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Early on I obsessively tweaked Pamela’s appearance but I haven’t changed anything about her including her clothes in at least five years. I feel like I have been forced and continue to be forced to constantly learn too many new technological survival skills already, I have no appetite for the equivalent of learning to fly a 747 just to keep my Barbie updated. 

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