What's a hill you are willing to die on?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

13 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Pfft, my neighbor gave me this for the holidays...

That's 17.3oz of chocolates filled with who-knows-what for $93.75

When I was a child, Santa left me this under the tree...

That's 80oz of pure "what they call chocolate" for $53.36

 

 

I like the taste of math.

I totally take your point.

But I have to say -- with apologies to my many lovely southern neighbours and friends -- that American "chocolate" bears the same relationship to real chocolate that American beer has to real beer. I.e., a nodding acquaintance, but no very intimate connection. There's a reason you call them "candy bars" rather than "chocolate bars."

Now, Cadbury on the other hand . . . I have one of their factories not too far from me. I've always passed it with awe and reverence and a feeling of magic. I want Willie Wonka to step out and invite me in.

(Nestle also makes very nice chocolate, but they are such an utterly appalling corporation that I refuse to buy their products.)

Edited January 2, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Scylla Rhiadra]

47 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

now that's a name I've not heard in a long time ..

And yet, it's still often how I think of you.

Not that there is anything wrong with pancakes, of course. Especially when served with real chocolate.

[Innula Zenovka]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Now, Cadbury on the other hand . . . I have one of their factories not too far from me.

And I have a Hotel Chocolat store just down the road from me.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Innula Zenovka

[Marigold Devin]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I totally take your point.

But I have to say -- with apologies to my many lovely southern neighbours and friends -- that American "chocolate" bears the same relationship to real chocolate that American beer has to real beer. I.e., a nodding acquaintance, but no very intimate connection. There's a reason you call them "candy bars" rather than "chocolate bars."

Now, Cadbury on the other hand . . . I have one of their factories not too far from me. I've always passed it with awe and reverence and a feeling of magic. I want Willie Wonka to step out and invite me in.

(Nestle also makes very nice chocolate, but they are such an utterly appalling corporation that I refuse to buy their products.)

But what the heck have Cadbury done with the shape of their chocolate, and they've nipped 10g off the size of what used to be their 100g bar in the process - not that I bother with 100g when 350g are available! An ex-boyfriend of mine used to have a bar of Bourneville plain in every room of his flat just in case he got the nibbles and couldn't be bothered to wander through to the kitchen. Until I moved in with him and then he had to hide his chocolate on his coach. Tee hee. Finders keepers. 

I agree about Nestle. It always used to taste better out of the machines on Lewes Railway Station. 

[Bree Giffen]

I guess your love of chocolate will truly be the hill you die on.

https://www.slavefreechocolate.org/

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I'm 

And I have a Hotel Chocolat store just down the road from me.

OMG . . . ❤️

[Marigold Devin]

4 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

I guess your love of chocolate will truly be the hill you die on.

https://www.slavefreechocolate.org/

I got up to check my bar of Cadbury and it has a Cocoa Life logo on the pack saying "Partnering with Fairtrade Foundation" and "Partnering to improve the lives of cocoa farmers and their communities www.cocoalife.org.  

 

[Vanity Fair]

2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

That skin on the cool men (such a misnomer!) ad and the one below it needs to be unceremoniously ripped from the grid.  I just saw a avatar today, 14 yrs. in and still wearing that abomination.

Seriously, about one-quarter of the male avatars in SL are in need of a SERIOUS freebie fashionista makeover. You don't have to look like you stepped out of 2007 (or even worse, 2003!). 

[Coffee Pancake]

15 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said:

Seriously, about one-quarter of the male avatars in SL are in need of a SERIOUS freebie fashionista makeover. You don't have to look like you stepped out of 2007 (or even worse, 2003!). 

They don't need a make over, they need to shop more and treat their avatar as a work in progress rather than that thing they made 10 years ago and don't need to think about ever again

[Scylla Rhiadra]

17 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said:

Seriously, about one-quarter of the male avatars in SL are in need of a SERIOUS freebie fashionista makeover. You don't have to look like you stepped out of 2007 (or even worse, 2003!). 

 

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

They don't need a make over, they need to shop more and treat their avatar as a work in progress rather than that thing they made 10 years ago and don't need to think about ever again

I have a very good friend who DJs a set that I usually attend every Friday night. I don't tip him, because it feels odd to me to tip a close friend. So, I came up with an alternate solution.

I buy him clothes. Nice ones, that he'd never find, yet alone buy, if left to his own devices. I do pay attention to his taste, of course, because he wouldn't wear things he didn't like. They're just higher quality clothes.

It's working. A maven of style he is not (yet), but he's gradually, over the last few years, started to look better and better.

[Sammy Huntsman]

23 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said:

Seriously, about one-quarter of the male avatars in SL are in need of a SERIOUS freebie fashionista makeover. You don't have to look like you stepped out of 2007 (or even worse, 2003!). 

Why does it matter though? I don't see how people have their avatar's should really be a cause for concern. I feel like we should just let them play their SL how they want, and not judge them. I mean these people are clearly happy with how they look. That and not everyone needs to be mesh, that is a CHOICE. And clearly they choose to not be mesh. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Why does it matter though? I don't see how people have their avatar's should really be a cause for concern. I feel like we should just let them play their SL how they want, and not judge them. I mean these people are clearly happy with how they look. That and not everyone needs to be mesh, that is a CHOICE. And clearly they choose to not be mesh. 

This is absolutely right . . . to a degree.

I think that the point that both Vanity and Coffee are making, though, is that the ancient and meh appearance of most men isn't, actually, a matter of choice. They're not wearing crap from 2009 because they like it, but rather because they can't be bothered, or don't know what is available, or are too intimidated, to do anything about it.

I would never insist that someone -- the friend I mention above, for instance -- abandon a look they like, or adopt mesh if they don't want to. What I do is facilitate the process of making my friend look better. Because he wants to look better. He just doesn't really have a clue about how to go about it.

Everyone totally has a right to look however they want. And thank god for that, because it does mean that there is still a fair amount of diversity of appearance in SL (although less than there once was). But . . . how we dress does say something about ourselves. And unless you consciously want that something to be "I don't care that I look like a refugee from 2009," then you're likely to be grateful for assistance in finding new and better ways to articulate who you are.

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Everyone totally has a right to look however they want. And thank god for that, because it does mean that there is still a fair amount of diversity of appearance in SL (although less than there once was). But . . . how we dress does say something about ourselves. And unless you consciously want that something to be "I don't care that I look like a refugee from 2009," then you're likely to be grateful for assistance in finding new and better ways to articulate who you are.

I feel like how they dress, shouldn't matter. All that matters is that they are having fun in SL. But I mean that is how I think. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I feel like how they dress, shouldn't matter. All that matters is that they are having fun in SL. But I mean that is how I think. 

That's cool, Sammy. This actually is not a hill I'd die on: my mission in SL is not to rescue badly dressed men from themselves!

But I would argue that how you dress does matter. It changes how people respond to you, how they address you, and in some cases, even where you can go. And, again, if you are consciously choosing to look very not well put together (and note: this isn't really about mesh: I know some gorgeous system avis), then . . . that's fine. But you are messaging something to people by choosing that route.

An extreme example: how would you respond to someone who'd been in SL more than a month, and was still wearing a default noob avatar? You'd conclude things about that person, wouldn't you, based on that choice?

Edited January 2, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

That's cool, Sammy. This actually is not a hill I'd die on: my mission in SL is not to rescue badly dressed men from themselves!

But I would argue that how you dress does matter. It changes how people respond to you, how they address you, and in some cases, even where you can go. And, again, if you are consciously choosing to look very not well put together (and note: this isn't really about mesh: I know some gorgeous system avis), then . . . that's fine. But you are messaging something to people by choosing that route.

An extreme example: how would you respond to someone who'd been in SL more than a month, and was still wearing a default noob avatar? You'd conclude things about that person, wouldn't you, based on that choice?

No, not really, I would try to get to know them. But I also don't judge a book based on its cover. I am not like that, and I have never been like that. I wouldn't conclude anything until I actually got to know the person. I mean it may not be by choice, I mean some people really can't afford to invest money into SL. There is a lot of reasons why people keep their avatars looking like that. 

[Marigold Devin]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

That's cool, Sammy. This actually is not a hill I'd die on: my mission in SL is not to rescue badly dressed men from themselves!

But I would argue that how you dress does matter. It changes how people respond to you, how they address you, and in some cases, even where you can go. And, again, if you are consciously choosing to look very not well put together (and note: this isn't really about mesh: I know some gorgeous system avis), then . . . that's fine. But you are messaging something to people by choosing that route.

An extreme example: how would you respond to someone who'd been in SL more than a month, and was still wearing a default noob avatar? You'd conclude things about that person, wouldn't you, based on that choice?

It's a big pity that human nature is what it is and people do mostly judge by appearances. Speaking for myself, I am very aware that how I look - real as well as Second Life - affects how some people interact with me.  I don't automatically assume someone is up their own arse just because they look like they are, I always try to get to know the real person inside before reaching any conclusion. I don't automatically assume someone is lazy or whatever just because they are still in the default noob avatar either. It's a shame that when we grow up we still can't shake off that need to keep up with the Joneses or have to bow to majority rule. 

In Second Life I know I have had some of the most funny, fun and fantastic times with unimaginatively dressed people. Their in world activities have been far more interesting than just playing at dress up dolly.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

But I also don't judge a book based on its cover.

And so you shouldn't. I've met many horribly dressed men (my friend, 3 years ago, was one such) who are wonderful people.

But I wouldn't need to look far to find posts here, on this forum, by people who more or less dismiss out of hand someone who has not taken at least some minimal effort to look good. Whether you or I think it is important or not . . . there are many who do.

And possibly they are not worth getting to know? I've no idea.

All I'm saying is that, whether it should or not, how one looks does matter.

[Rolig Loon]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think that the point that both Vanity and Coffee are making, though, is that the ancient and meh appearance of most men isn't, actually, a matter of choice. They're not wearing crap from 2009 because they like it, but rather because they can't be bothered, or don't know what is available, or are too intimidated, to do anything about it.

There is certainly some truth in that, although I think it's presumptuous to decide that you know why most men dress the way they do.  I don't know myself, but I doubt that most men are too clueless or too timid to be able to shop for clothing, if that's what they want to do.  I think you hit closer to the mark by guessing that "they can't be bothered"; it's just not all that important.  Heck, I have known enough men in SL -- including a few Lindens -- who have worn the same outfit for over a decade.  Even if they are slow learners, I can't believe that they wouldn't have tried to do something different just out of curiosity in all this time.  I can only conclude that clothing is just not on their radar.

That said, it's great that you will offer to help men who really do want to look trim and well-dressed, as long as you are not twisting their arms.  A friendly smile from a volunteer shopping assistant could be all it takes to make wardrobe suddenly worth thinking about. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Rolig Loon said:

That said, it's great that you will offer to help men who really do want to look trim and well-dressed

Well. Man. I help one man -- because he's a lovely friend who is quite willing to let me help him up his game. I am, as I say, not on a mission: I don't really care much about how most people look.

Also, I'm not entirely selfless in that regard. We dance a lot, and I spend a fair amount of time making sure I look nice when I go clubbing. And, well . . . I like my dance partner to look nice?

*coughs*

[Sammy Huntsman]

I was bullied as a kid about how I acted and how I looked. I was different from the other students. And I didn't like that. So I am sure as heck not wanting to do that to others. If I didn't like it, they sure as heck wouldn't like it.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Sammy Huntsman said:

I was bullied as a kid about how I acted and how I looked. I was different from the other students. And I didn't like that. So I am sure as heck not wanting to do that to others. If I didn't like it, they sure as heck wouldn't like it.

Totally agreed. But I don't think anyone here is talking about bullying or harassing people because they don't look "good."

[Orfeu Miles]

Sl is just a fantasy world... you don't need to be honest or speak true here.

Raises an eyebrow and assumes a world-weary expression.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

6 minutes ago, Orfeu Miles said:

Sl is just a fantasy world... you don't need to be honest or speak true here.

Raises an eyebrow and assumes a world-weary expression.

So we can assume that you aren't really "world weary"? 🙃

[Orfeu Miles]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So we can assume that you aren't really "world weary"? 🙃

Not totally .. no... but it is definitely convenient to assume that expression at times.

[Sammy Huntsman]

19 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Totally agreed. But I don't think anyone here is talking about bullying or harassing people because they don't look "good."

You are not wrong thinking how you think, and I am not saying that. I just can't do it myself, and I am probably a weirdo for being like that. Lol