The three simple things I complain about.

[Tama Suki]

Greetings!
Three simple things that I think should definitely be changed in the official viewer.
I will list them in order of importance:

1 INWORLD CHAT
Absolutely, absolutely and absolutely you must allow me to inworld chat without having to open a very uncomfortable window.
Window which, moreover, occupies a large space and which blocks a good portion of the screen and prevents me from watching what is happening around me.

2 INVENTORY
In the inventory I can't collapse the folders all together and reorder them perfectly with just one click. If I open a series of folders I am forced to close them one at a time, this activity could sometimes take minutes to complete and when I find myself in this situation the frustration is so great that I just want to go out and log back in with Firestorm.

3 BUILDING TOOL
In the building tools I need to be able to turn on and off the function that highlights the objects I am working on. Having objects always highlighted is above all inconvenient when I intervene directly on my avatar to modify some attachments scale and position.
---
Maybe there is a way to change these things in the preferences (as far as I know this is impossible for the chat window) but this is still the default viewer situation. It may be that the chat situation is maintained in this way for a marketing policy that is obscure to me, but the inventory designed in that way without being able to have the possibility of collapsing all the folders is for me an incomprehensible devilry.
If it weren't for the fact that I can only listen to the sound of the wind using the official viewer I would happily stay with Firestorm and not complain.
I hope someone in the labs can consider this post of mine.
Thank you

[NiranV Dean]

Fix your Second Life in 3 easy steps.

1.

  

 

2.  

 

3.

Clearly you didn't look hard enough (or at all). 1 has been an option since CHUI was implemented many years ago, 3 was always an option ever since there was building and 2 has been added quite a while ago too. None of these options are hard to find, 1 and 2 are directly inside the very window you are looking to change, 3 is in the usual build menu that everyone loves so much.

Edited December 25, 2021 by NiranV Dean

[Tama Suki]

1 hour ago, NiranV Dean said:

Fix your Second Life in 3 easy steps.

1.

  

 

2.  

 

3.

Clearly you didn't look hard enough (or at all). 1 has been an option since CHUI was implemented many years ago, 3 was always an option ever since there was building and 2 has been added quite a while ago too. None of these options are hard to find, 1 and 2 are directly inside the very window you are looking to change, 3 is in the usual build menu that everyone loves so much.

Thank you very much Niran you have been very precious and I admit that I have never looked too much into the official viewer because I am quite lazy and I have always preferred to switch to Firestorm.
However, the fact remains that the UI is not very friendly by default.

They should put all those functions clearly visible without having to go to open other menus. The selection of objects when building for example. Much better to put a button in the tool to get me to go from one state to another quickly without getting disconnected from the work I'm doing to open a separate menu.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Tama Suki

[NiranV Dean]

The UI only has so much space, cramming more options into an already overly crammed window like the tools floater for instance doesn't seem like a good idea. That's why they started using these gear menu buttons. The tools floater hasn't been touched since forever and neither of the Viewers because there is hardly much to change about it and all Viewers do have these options in the Tools/Build menu.  The inventory however still has some space for some commonly used buttons at the bottom, although i wouldn't count collapse all folders as a commonly used function, common would be creating a new item.

[Tama Suki]

27 minutes ago, NiranV Dean said:

although i wouldn't count collapse all folders as a commonly used function

I disagree on this. As I see it, it seems to me an essential function to put in the foreground.
Let's say that I would simply completely change the structure of the inventory or create a sort of web page that allows you to view and manage it in a more profitable way.
I mean! I think most people don't even remember 50% of what's inside because it's disheartening how all the folders are handled in a vertical stack that can become 20km long.

[Aishagain]

@Tama SukiI have to say that I am unclear as to why you find the present inventory format unuseable.  I have a range of named non-system folders in Firestorm, but it is neither unweildy nor is it overlong.  For an inventory of 30-100k items I find it perfectly acceptable on all my accounts, clearly it requires a large number of subfolders, in fact aside for the obvious system folders for calling cards there is no great need for a plethora of subfolders, I use probably 10-20 in each category, more in my own created folders for types and creators of clothing and shoes, some specifically for types of avatar, which I find more effective at finding stuff than outfit folders, though I have quite a lot of those as well!

I find that the inventory support is much the same in the Linden Viewer as in Firestorm, though without #RLV support obviously, only a minority of users I suspect would want that.

Granted, the default viewer is not as good at dealing with communications, but to my mind, that is the principal reason to use Firestorm and I simply do not notice the performance penalty that some experience.

I personally think that your complaints are a little excessive and would be fairly easily addressed by a liitle thought on your inventory structure.  But that's nothing but my opinion and does not apply necessarily to anyone else.

I also think that it is vital to remember that the Linden Viewer is of necessity  a compromise, so that new users are not overwhelmed with a plethora of choices and format alternatives.  There are ample options of third party viewers, Firestorm and Black Dragon being just two, for more experienced users.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Aishagain
spelling..my perennial bugbear

[Coffee Pancake]

6 hours ago, Tama Suki said:

I disagree on this. As I see it, it seems to me an essential function to put in the foreground.
Let's say that I would simply completely change the structure of the inventory or create a sort of web page that allows you to view and manage it in a more profitable way.
I mean! I think most people don't even remember 50% of what's inside because it's disheartening how all the folders are handled in a vertical stack that can become 20km long.

I use this all the time .. we added it as a fixed button in Catznip

and added a fold out menu

with the additional "Collapse To Folders" option that collapses everything up to the folder you're currently browsing. 

(Ignore the OpenDyslexic font.. that's just my personal preference)

[NiranV Dean]

2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I use this all the time .. we added it as a fixed button in Catznip

and added a fold out menu

with the additional "Collapse To Folders" option that collapses everything up to the folder you're currently browsing. 

(Ignore the OpenDyslexic font.. that's just my personal preference)

Well BD had it as button too but i got rid of it due to the styling change that didn't have any more space for it. It's now in a menu again (which technically allows it to have a shortcut) but unlike LL Viewer its in a known menu style that we see being used in the main UI. I still don't see much reason for it being a button. Both are one click (did you know you can click and hold the menu and let go while Close All Folders is selected?), its also at the very top too so the first thing being selected. If people don't really check the menus or buttons (especially if there aren't many) then i don't know.

Edited December 26, 2021 by NiranV Dean

[Tama Suki]

@Aishagain I am quite a messy person and also quite fickle in a way.
Yes, I have done many folders and subcategories myself but still I find the stacked inventory design inconvenient.
I think the best thing is to open it on a table as if a banquet is being set for a dinner: I know that in one place there are sauces and when I need them I go directly there, on the other there are roasts then there are salads, pasta, fruit, desserts ... When I need something I just have to look up and find it immediately.

I don't know if I have been able to explain myself. In short, in two dimensions and not only vertically. Kind of like it's the wardrobe tool. This is the same for the two viewers I use, the ufficial and Firestorm.
I know well that I should have a session in my virtual life where every day I dedicate 20 minutes to rearrange the inventory. But I'm so lazy and self-indulgent that I can't make this rule on myself.

 

Something like that ⬇︎

Edited December 26, 2021 by Tama Suki

[NiranV Dean]

2 hours ago, Tama Suki said:

@Aishagain I am quite a messy person and also quite fickle in a way.
Yes, I have done many folders and subcategories myself but still I find the stacked inventory design inconvenient.
I think the best thing is to open it on a table as if a banquet is being set for a dinner: I know that in one place there are sauces and when I need them I go directly there, on the other there are roasts then there are salads, pasta, fruit, desserts ... When I need something I just have to look up and find it immediately.

I don't know if I have been able to explain myself. In short, in two dimensions and not only vertically. Kind of like it's the wardrobe tool. This is the same for the two viewers I use, the ufficial and Firestorm.
I know well that I should have a session in my virtual life where every day I dedicate 20 minutes to rearrange the inventory. But I'm so lazy and self-indulgent that I can't make this rule on myself.

 

Something like that ⬇︎

Are you sure you want a grid inventory with 40k-100k items and thousands of subfolders in your main folder? This would so quickly get out of hand...

[Tama Suki]

14 minutes ago, NiranV Dean said:

Are you sure you want a grid inventory with 40k-100k items and thousands of subfolders in your main folder? This would so quickly get out of hand...

I believe there can be more control that way instead.
And why not let the two methods live together? Stacked inventory as it exists now plus the option to open it as a grid.
I have seen that some metaverses use that grid system, for example Sinespace or Sansar. Not to mention the fact that in that type of inventory you can also see the meshes as they are and you don't need to rezz them to figure out what that stuff is because maybe you have forgotten about it over time.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Tama Suki

[Nick0678]

Let's have a poll. Left or Right.

[NiranV Dean]

absolutely not left, that is a massive amount of wasted space, not to mention the viewer cant preview items as it doesnt know what they look like until rezzed, not to mention the abyssmal performance of one of the already slowest windows when having to render a bunch of objects with hundreds and thousands of polygons again

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

I am struggling to understand one of the issues here, because my single biggest peeve of all is with one specific piece of behaviour concerning key-strokes and the inventory.

Having got a few project sub-folders in the object folder open as I want them, I move up to landmarks and select sandbox, got to it, then press the up-arrow a few times with the intention of moving away from the landing point,

BUT - Because I still have focus in the inventory floater, all of the folders that were opened collapse with just one or two presses of the up-arrow.

I have to go back and laboriously get all the ones opened again that I am going to be using.

I am trying to cure my impulsive behaviour and learn to click out into the world to shift focus, but I have to say, the behaviour the OP is asking for is already there, and part of me wishes it wasn't?

Edited December 26, 2021 by Profaitchikenz Haiku

[Tama Suki]

2 hours ago, NiranV Dean said:

absolutely not left, that is a massive amount of wasted space, not to mention the viewer cant preview items as it doesnt know what they look like until rezzed, not to mention the abyssmal performance of one of the already slowest windows when having to render a bunch of objects with hundreds and thousands of polygons again

I understand that at the point where we are it would be counterproductive to totally change the inventory structure.
It would also be impossible, I think, unless Linden Lab announces the project months in advance and works on it by investing a lot of resources and time.
It is definitely not a convenient thing.
But what @Nick0678 posted seems like a good compromise.

(however the image of the object that would appear in the inventory could be a small JPG, obviously you cannot expect the original meshes with all their polygons to be displayed)

Edited December 26, 2021 by Tama Suki

[Aishagain]

Well, @Tama SukiI am bound to say that your proposed arrangement is to me neither desirable nor in any way logistically valuable.  However, while I subscribe to the mantra "diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks", I do not think your solution would find much favour within the SL user community.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Aishagain

[Tama Suki]

12 minutes ago, Aishagain said:

Well, @Tama SukiI am bound to say that your proposed arrangement is to me neither desirable nor in any way logistically valuable.  However, while I subscribe to the mantra "diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks", I do not think your solution would find much favour within the SL user community.

Actually my only problem was about managing folders in the official viewer. I thought they could not be collapsed and instead I was wrong.
Friend, I make mistakes very often, the idea that I have proposed I realize that it is something quite far from achievable.
But I only modestly threw a small drop in the ocean and maybe who knows, in 30 years it could re-emerge and come in handy.
Peace.

[NiranV Dean]

11 hours ago, Tama Suki said:

I understand that at the point where we are it would be counterproductive to totally change the inventory structure.
It would also be impossible, I think, unless Linden Lab announces the project months in advance and works on it by investing a lot of resources and time.
It is definitely not a convenient thing.
But what @Nick0678 posted seems like a good compromise.

(however the image of the object that would appear in the inventory could be a small JPG, obviously you cannot expect the original meshes with all their polygons to be displayed)

And who's going to take all these little images of a million of objects? Not to mention the texture memory usage again... oof.

[Tama Suki]

6 hours ago, NiranV Dean said:

And who's going to take all these little images of a million of objects? Not to mention the texture memory usage again... oof.

I don't know to be honest, I'm not a programmer.
But I see that other wiever of other metaverses are able to do this.
I believe that an image of a few bit can be automatically generated by the inventory (the viewer) in some way and that these would only weigh on the account that uses them.
After all, if you think about it, inside Second Life thousands if not millions of heavy images are generated every day.
I also had a weird idea the other day. And that is, if it were possible to create an application external to the viewer that can view the inventory of an account and give the user the possibility to manage it without necessarily having to enter SL, a bit like the marketplace. But surely this is an even more imaginative idea than the first.

[Alwin Alcott]

24 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

I believe that an image of a few bit can be automatically generated by the inventory (the viewer)

stop believing... the viewer doesn't know what a object is, and for sure not how it looks.

[Tama Suki]

13 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

stop believing... the viewer doesn't know what a object is, and for sure not how it looks.

In this case, I consider myself an agnostic.

 

Sinespace inventory system ⬇︎

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

24 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

stop believing... the viewer doesn't know what a object is, and for sure not how it looks.

The viewer has to at least have some limited information on the type of each asset, otherwise we wouldn't have different inventory icons for different asset types or specific options for each asset type in the right click menu.

Still, I think the idea of generating thumbnails for every item in inventory is not going to be feasible given the gargantuan hordes of items some of us have collected over the years, and while the idea of a "right-click > preview" option for rezzable objects (something similar to the preview window in the mesh uploader) is appealing it could be open to abuse.

On the one hand, sending the data for the asset directly to the viewer and previewing it in a separate window (in the same way we currently view textures and snapshots) would be less impactful on a sim than rezzing an object in-world where the data has to be sent to every avatar within draw range.  On the other hand I guess giving users the ability to directly load objects from the asset database into the viewer is just opening up another avenue for content theft.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

The closest you can get would be to have a texture in each folder showing a view of the item, some viewers will pop up a small preview of such a texture when you hover over the opened folder (Catznip definitely does this)

So in a folder, you park a snapshot of the outfit/object, and somehow try to get it to the very top of the list, or else name it "0Preview" or "!Preview", the idea being it's always going to be the first item in the folder whether you have sorted by name or by date, and as you open the folder and mouse down into the content, the preview picture pop up as the mouse passes over it.