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point of mesh? well yes and no i answer...


Zslash Cyberstar
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[06:41] Z (zslash.cyberstar): lol at the cost of that one :P better off with sculpts ^^
[06:43] Vir Linden: heh, probably so.
[06:43] Vir Linden: Just testing uploads with various models


[06:43] Z (zslash.cyberstar): yea
[06:43] Z (zslash.cyberstar): i dont understand why we get meshes when sculpts is way cheaper :P
[06:44] Z (zslash.cyberstar): waste of time
[06:44] Z (zslash.cyberstar): even if a sculpt holds way more tris, a mesh is always more expensive ^^

(( i actually meant to say, sculpts are cheaper no matter what, but he probly got what i meant anyways))


[06:45] Z (zslash.cyberstar): car is like 4ktris
[06:45] Z (zslash.cyberstar): one sculpt is what 1K :P
[06:45] Z (zslash.cyberstar): 4sculpts
[06:45] Z (zslash.cyberstar): vs mesh at
[06:45] Z (zslash.cyberstar): 74

(( linden dissapears, probably realised he said something he shoudlnt and tped away :P ))


[06:46] Z (zslash.cyberstar): doesnt help go invisible :P

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If you are getting 74 prims for a 4 ktris model, it is a poorly made model, or some weirdness in the upload.  Mine come in at around 10-15 prims.  There can be valid reasons to use a mesh even if it costs more than a sculpt in prims.  Having up to eight texturable "surfaces" (polygon regions) with custom layout and UV mapping.  More control over LODs and physics.  The ability to rig a mesh to animate when worn by an avatar.  It is likely that finished builds will include a mix of sculpts, prims, and meshes.  It does not have to all one or the other.

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It's good to know the difference between a test, practice, and build.  I can easily write scripts in LSL that can shut down a whole sim just to calculate 2+2. Does that mean LSL has no point?  (^_^)

Mesh, when used properly... Hang on, let me emphasize >> when used properly << ... can and will save on rendering costs, prim counts, and improve overall detail in builds.  (^_^)

Mesh won't replace sculpties.  They'll work fine side-by-side. (^_^)

Mesh won't replace prims.  They'll work find side-by-side. (^_^)

Just like sculpties didn't replace prims.  =^-^=

We're getting more creativity tools, not less.  Why do so many people choose to ignore this? (o.O)

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Imnotgoing Sideways wrote:

We're getting more creativity tools, not less.  Why do so many people choose to ignore this? (
o.O
)

I bet it is because of lack of understanding when to use what, and how to decide what is better. IMHO the most problematic point here is that many sculpty makers will in first place go the way which i describe in my "
" tutorial: They try to get from Sculpty to mesh and fail. Severly!

And IMHO it is up to the documentors, tutorial makers and building teachers to bring in the reasons, explanations, guidelines, ... so that builders can learn what is needed to become good mesh weavers...

I made a simple experiment this morning: I created a UV sphere in Blender, exported it as Collada, and imported it "as is" to SL and got a nice looking sphere with awfull LOD behaviour and primcosts of 10. Now the challenge is to explain why this is not such a bad result, although you may be tempted to instantly run away from "expensive meshes" and scream loud...

Maybe you (sculpty makers) may want to watch me, how i am slowly walking along that path from sculpty to mesh with my kettle, hoping at the end of my way, to have helped a bit with uncovering the mysteries of good made meshes.

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I dont know

But everyone who try to build a house and straight structures and clean Arcs with a sculpty is welcome to show me.

And i still can do that with FAR less polygons then with a sculpt.

 

http://i54.tinypic.com/maxmaa.png

http://i55.tinypic.com/fqvt0.png

http://i55.tinypic.com/2je1jea.png

 

2 Prims as cost for that .. 570 Polygons ...And seeable and hold form in the far off LOD

Not to mention the different textures on the object sides that can be replaced any time.

And even better, a physics that allow to walk right in the short tunnel.

Till now , if they dosent tweak the Ploygon to Prim Ratio up, ill take the mesh every time.

Im not sure, but i think even with normal Prims ( that would take at least 4 or 5 ) i would have more polygons. ( i could be very wrong here )

 

 

AND before i sound too ballsy .. im just a beginner in creating that stuff. Im absolutely 100% sure that there are many people out there, who can do it even better by a far margin.

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10 prim mesh sphere vs 1 prim sculpty or prim sphere?

 

That's very easy. If you try to sculpt a sculpty sphere it only has 1024 polys. The mesh sphere on the other hand could have many many more than that. So when sculpting, the level of detail you can get in a mesh is far, far higher. 

People are confusing an arbitrary "prim cost" with effectiveness and efficiency of rendering. 

 

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So many of us are learning as we go, myself included. We will walk this road together. I am grateful that there are people here who know lots more than I do!

You ask a good question. We will all benefit from this discussion.

I agree with the previous posters that mesh, sculpties and prims will all have their place in our tool box.

I look forward to what Gaia does with the kettle quest! I would love to learn to optimize things better.

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bodzette Coignet wrote:

10 prim mesh sphere vs 1 prim sculpty or prim sphere?

 

That's very easy. If you try to sculpt a sculpty sphere it only has 1024 polys. The mesh sphere on the other hand could have many many more than that. So when sculpting, the level of detail you can get in a mesh is far, far higher. 

People are confusing an arbitrary "prim cost" with effectiveness and efficiency of rendering. 

 

Well .. i forgot to mention that the mesh sphere had 1024 faces.

I will dig into physics meshes shortly in my kettle quest. And then you will see how you can get the prim costs down to ~2 without changing the mesh ;-) But right now i am fighting with the physics display issue CTS-620

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For me mesh will be a way to simplify scripts being able to have 8 surfaces in any direction I want. Then I can update all surfaces/face in one function call. For a while I was getting a little less or equal result with mesh vs a prim setup. But with this last update with the new format mesh is costing about 3 time more than the prim method which is a little frustrating. I mean really it is still the same thing why does it cost more now? Just LL playing prim economics. Don;t want us to have some too good.

Sadly a sculpt has way more face and cost less than a mesh with the same number of face. I may only need a few hand full of faces to make a certain mesh but since sculpts cost less we will using sculpts keep rendering at a snails pace when mesh would be far better in every sense but LL has stamped it with higher cost when it comes to low poly.

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If you ask me, the OP is making a valid point. Normal prims do not change prim count, Mesh do. For a mesh, prim count is calculated. For a scupty or normal prims, there is no calculation. It is just 1 prim. So, for mesh to be penalized just for being a mesh is kind of wrong. LL should be promoting the use of mesh, not penalizing people for using it. The real penalties should only be for badly made meshes, not well made 1's.

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