Main Land & BS Clubs

[Bridgette Puddles]

for 4 days now, I can't get to my main land due to a freaking fetish club. The own just sits their afking taking up a slot, and it seems half of the people in his club are afking. The main land only hold 40 and this dude has all over them taken all the time!

 

A. When is linden labs going to get off their buts and put a end to clubs on the main land make make them rent a region.

B. Make it so say a 1024 can host 3 to 5 avs 2048 5 to 10 avs etc....... This would put a end to being blocked from land I paid for and pay monthly to use.

C. If they want to run a club on the main land on a smaller parcel make them pay double or triple the cost on the monthly land.

 

 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Have you contacted Live Chat to see what, if any, options you might have? It may be that if the club is unfairly hogging resources with inactive avatars, something could be done about it. I don't know, but it won't hurt to ask. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Sylvia Tamalyn

[Stephanie Misfit]

On 12/13/2021 at 11:19 AM, Bridgette Puddles said:

for 4 days now, I can't get to my main land due to a freaking fetish club. The own just sits their afking taking up a slot, and it seems half of the people in his club are afking. The main land only hold 40 and this dude has all over them taken all the time!

 

A. When is linden labs going to get off their buts and put a end to clubs on the main land make make them rent a region.

B. Make it so say a 1024 can host 3 to 5 avs 2048 5 to 10 avs etc....... This would put a end to being blocked from land I paid for and pay monthly to use.

C. If they want to run a club on the main land on a smaller parcel make them pay double or triple the cost on the monthly land.

 

 

I really hope something can be done about this. Sounds like a dreadful situation to be in and I would be very upset too if that was happening where I lived. Those avatars that are AFKing are probably bots and maybe you could report them as such, I bet they aren't registered as scripted agents and are being used to game traffic. Even if they are registered as scripted agents, they aren't allowed to cause undue load on the regions in which they operate. Good luck Bridgette.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 12/12/2021 at 7:19 PM, Bridgette Puddles said:

for 4 days now, I can't get to my main land due to a freaking fetish club. The own just sits their afking taking up a slot, and it seems half of the people in his club are afking. The main land only hold 40 and this dude has all over them taken all the time!

 

A. When is linden labs going to get off their buts and put a end to clubs on the main land make make them rent a region.

B. Make it so say a 1024 can host 3 to 5 avs 2048 5 to 10 avs etc....... This would put a end to being blocked from land I paid for and pay monthly to use.

C. If they want to run a club on the main land on a smaller parcel make them pay double or triple the cost on the monthly land.

 

 

The Lindens are unlikely ever to do anything about this, and regard it as a "resident dispute," although it is a conflict they generated with their refusal to put limits per parcel on avatars

It would be great if the size of the parcel could dictate the number of avatars, so clubs on only 4096 couldn't paralyze a sim. But they have never done this and likely never will, it may be too complicated or there aren't enough cases where it happens.

They could have zoned sims for clubs only back in the day as well and made them higher capacity, but they didn't do that either.

The last thing they will ever do is force a club to "rent a region". If by that you mean either buy and pay tier on a whole Mainland sim, or buy and pay tier on an island, they won't do that. There's no such requirement and it's hard to see how there could be given the freedoms of the Mainland -- which I realize rapidly degenerate to unfreedom for you when others are not considerate. Most clubs on little parcels like this are too poor to afford a region, anyway.

I think the wisest course is to sell or abandon your land and find other land on a sim with no clubs, rather than live with this constant exasperation. You can try filing abuse reports or tickets; they will likely "go nowhere."

I can tell you my own experience with this very problem.

Long ago, I rented land on my very first sim (where I had both my "first land" under the old program, a "free 512," and my first auction win). First, like so many newbies, I made my own club with my friends -- it eventually failed for all the usual reasons and then I tried to rent the space. Then I had a headache on my hands -- constant griefing issues, constant demands to give resident powers to a stream of people who needed to have ban powers as bouncers or to deed vendors or whatever. Routinely, this sim took up the 42 avatar slots on the sim, meaning people in my apartment tower also on the sim literally couldn't get home. I kept trying to reason with these tenants whom I didn't want to lose -- they put some of their dancers in the apartment building but ultimately, they created so many problems I asked them to leave.

So the next thing they did was buy a 4096 on that sim which became available, before I could buy it -- it was at a high price but they figured they would earn it back. Now they were free to do what they wanted to on their land, and be even more callous to me and my tenants, as they kept taking up all the slots. And like you, I determined that some were just AFK alts put on there to generate traffic.

I decided I didn't want to give up my "first land" on a mountainous snow sim with waterfront on Ice Bay with icebergs -- it's kind of unique. It had very deep water also. So I just hung on, and put in some stores -- I thought people won't mind as much if they can't get to a store, they are there for short time periods, more often during the day, leaving the club at night to monopolize the sim. That worked better for awhile than residential rentals, but there was always the harassment element, scuffles, griefing, etc. I developed other problems with this long-time oldbie who resented that I had land on this sim as well, next to a waterfront, whose TV business had failed when the Lindens did something different with the code and when an open source TV flooded the marker. He would cover up other "first land" lots on the sim with boards so no one could see them, and buy them on alts. He would send people to shoot at me and push me and also banned me to hem me in. I held my ground. I really didn't want to be bullied off a sim where I felt I had paid a lot of money, at least for me. I think the auction land was something like US $250 for a quarter of a sim, land was a lot more expensive in those days.

So I kept trying to make things work, weathered all this harassment, and finally, that club left and got their own island -- where not so long after, they failed. Because island tier is harder to keep up than mainland 4096s obviously. One of them who had a clothing store made a point of coming to another sim where I had land -- out of all the sims in SL -- and bought land right across from my residential rentals and put up a huge ugly purple storefront deliberately, and said as much, to prevent my land from renting on that other sim. All this merely because I objected to these people taking up all 42 avatar slots on the sim every night, especially with alts. 

This person remained for years until her store failed when mesh came in and finally she was gone. Again, I'm happy to wait years for people like this to go away on sims where I like the land and don't want to move. But you're not required to do that.

The Lindens did absolutely nothing in those days and wouldn't even discuss it, and I imagine they would do the same now and tell you to move to Bellisseria. It's a buyer's market on the Mainland, however, and you should be able to find nice land for a song these days, even on waterfront, as long as you don't insist on Blake Sea, etc.

Today, the sim that I refused to leave is a nice place, with a mixture of apartments, homes, stores, and an RP rescue mission place. None of the elements of it take up all the avatar slots and it isn't laggy. I did have to wait years to bring this about. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Prokofy Neva

[Stefanie Starlight]

This is a problem in a lot of Zindra regions.  I bought land in a Zindra region on a Tuesday afternoon SL time, the place was deserted, but within hours there were 30+ avatars back at an AFK place occupying a 2048 parcel, and my land was useless.  I put it back on the market, and sold it for the same as I paid for it a few weeks later - I was lucky!   I learned never to buy land on reset day again!   But the AFK clubs are a problem that way.  If you see lots of land for sale and at a cheap price in a region, take an especially close look at why that might be, and often it's because there are times when the region is overstressed by one landowner's operations.

This doesn't happen so much in other parts of the Mainland, but it does happen.  For example, there is a discount clothing store at http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Magenta/133/122/22 in the old Sansara Colour Sims, an area with many old builds and generally free from too many issues, which for some reason since a few months ago has operated about a dozen bots in a restricted-access skybox way high above the actual store.  It does degrade region performance somewhat, not as much as clubs with 30 to 40 avatars there, but it still put me off buying the land currently for sale there.  I have no idea what those bots achieve...  anyone with any ideas, I'd be interested   

But as @Prokofy Nevahas said, LL will never do anything about this, so just be as wise as you can about land buying, and if necessary cut your losses, abandon and learn by the sad experience.  Fortunately there is LOTS of nice land out there...  except, in Zindra, I wouldn't bother looking for 'nice land', like water edge etc, as even in quieter regions, the lag is huge...  I'm guessing because of all the scripted sex furniture   

[Stefanie Starlight]

On 12/15/2021 at 5:28 AM, Stephanie Misfit said:

Those avatars that are AFKing are probably bots and maybe you could report them as such, I bet they aren't registered as scripted agents and are being used to game traffic. Even if they are registered as scripted agents, they aren't allowed to cause undue load on the regions in which they operate.

I haven't really looked into the use of bots etc and the rules around them.  Can you please point me to whatever there is about that?  Maybe there is the possibility then of an AR after all...  would be good if there were!

[Stephanie Misfit]

3 hours ago, Stefanie Starlight said:

I haven't really looked into the use of bots etc and the rules around them.  Can you please point me to whatever there is about that?  Maybe there is the possibility then of an AR after all...  would be good if there were!

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Bot_policy

I don't know how well it is enforced, like so many other things.

 

[rasterscan]

On 12/16/2021 at 5:52 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

It's a buyer's market on the Mainland, however, and you should be able to find nice land for a song these days, even on waterfront, as long as you don't insist on Blake Sea, etc.

Depends what you consider a song of a price to be. There is land for sale at L$0.5 / L$0.6 here and there, but rarely along the waterfronts. Waterfront land always seems more expensive, I guess due to its popularity.

[Cedric Brown]

15 minutes ago, rasterscan said:

Depends what you consider a song of a price to be. There is land for sale at L$0.5 / L$0.6 here and there, but rarely along the waterfronts. Waterfront land always seems more expensive, I guess due to its popularity.

The remark about it being a buyer's market was a year and a half ago. Prokofy has a pretty good perspective on mainland pricing

[BilliJo Aldrin]

I got a deal on a parcel in Yedboro on Zindra one time. Soon after i moved in and built my place I realized why it was so cheap.

There was some sort of noob welcome center on the sim, on a 512. The sim was always mostly full.

After a couple of weeks i decided to sell and move on. I sold it for what I paid for it.

You dont have time to assess sim traffic on Zindra, you grab cheap land as soon as it comes up, or you loose it.

I started with a 512 at my current location, sim traffic was good, so when a noob flipper got the parcel beside mine (about 4000 sq m) and listed it for $5 L per sq m  I bumped my tier to get it. 

Been there ever since and Im never leaving 😁.

[Spooky Shadow]

Sadly many clubs use bots and alts to make it seem they are popular. If you go and no one is talking.. you got a room full of fake avi's.

Should not be allowed on the mainland! 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

16 hours ago, Marius Darkheart said:

Sadly many clubs use bots and alts to make it seem they are popular. If you go and no one is talking.. you got a room full of fake avi's.

Should not be allowed on the mainland! 

It happens all the time, do an inworld search, find a club you think you might like, check it out on the map, see a dozen avis so you tp in. No one in the club, check radar, everyone is at 3000 m up in the sky, you double click on a name on the list to cam them, they are all standing on an empty platform. All traffic stats generators, nothing more, so you tp out, never to return.

those avatars do nothing to bring people to the club, on the contrary they drive people away. 

[xDancingStarx]

On 7/28/2023 at 1:19 PM, BilliJo Aldrin said:

those avatars do nothing to bring people to the club, on the contrary they drive people away. 

The most infamous traffic gamers are escort clubs. And customers in those clubs don't care how many other (real) customers are present. If the location can be boosted in search it's a win for the owner. 

[Rowan Amore]

43 minutes ago, xDancingStarx said:

The most infamous traffic gamers are escort clubs. And customers in those clubs don't care how many other (real) customers are present. If the location can be boosted in search it's a win for the owner. 

There usually are none or very few real customers at those places.  I've checked at various times, too.  It's the reason most of them close not long after opening or are constantly looking for employees.  

[Zalificent Corvinus]

On 7/27/2023 at 8:10 PM, Marius Darkheart said:

Sadly many clubs use bots and alts to make it seem they are popular. If you go and no one is talking.. you got a room full of fake avi's.

Should not be allowed on the mainland! 

 

8 hours ago, xDancingStarx said:

The most infamous traffic gamers are escort clubs. And customers in those clubs don't care how many other (real) customers are present. If the location can be boosted in search it's a win for the owner. 

7 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

There usually are none or very few real customers at those places.  I've checked at various times, too.  It's the reason most of them close not long after opening or are constantly looking for employees.  

Ummm...

This threads a couple of years old, so I doubt there's any point addressing the Op...

But I noticed they said "Fetish Club" with a high body count, on Mainland.. There are not that many "Fetish Clubs" on mainland that have those sort of traffic figures, if it's the one I'm thinking of, it's worth pointing out that it's so "famous" and thus so often visited, that it has a "Parking Meter" system, on arrival you are issued with a 10 or 15 min "permit", and you HAVE to click the ticket machine to renew that before it expires or you get auto-punted.

 

To be fair, it's actually a really boring place, with little or no local chat, but contrary to "Recieved Fossil Wisdom of Utter Wrongness" it's NOT a room full of "Fake avis", its just a room filled with really boring people all either engaged in naughty IM's or waiting desperately for naughty IM's. Nor is it an AFK/Escort place with no customers, gaming traffic, that will soon close.

It's just a Bondage/Fetish Club that has a vastly over rated reputation as "THE Place to go" and has done for more years than I've been in SL,

In Terms Forum people will understand, think "Franks", but for people who prefer whips and chains to bad jazz music and flexi-gowns.

 

Just saying...  

[Stephanie Misfit]

23 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

 

Ummm...

This threads a couple of years old, so I doubt there's any point addressing the Op...

But I noticed they said "Fetish Club" with a high body count, on Mainland.. There are not that many "Fetish Clubs" on mainland that have those sort of traffic figures, if it's the one I'm thinking of, it's worth pointing out that it's so "famous" and thus so often visited, that it has a "Parking Meter" system, on arrival you are issued with a 10 or 15 min "permit", and you HAVE to click the ticket machine to renew that before it expires or you get auto-punted.

 

To be fair, it's actually a really boring place, with little or no local chat, but contrary to "Recieved Fossil Wisdom of Utter Wrongness" it's NOT a room full of "Fake avis", its just a room filled with really boring people all either engaged in naughty IM's or waiting desperately for naughty IM's. Nor is it an AFK/Escort place with no customers, gaming traffic, that will soon close.

It's just a Bondage/Fetish Club that has a vastly over rated reputation as "THE Place to go" and has done for more years than I've been in SL,

In Terms Forum people will understand, think "Franks", but for people who prefer whips and chains to bad jazz music and flexi-gowns.

 

Just saying...  

Not long ago, I lived near another fetish club on Zindra that did not use such a system (I know the club you mean and if you are not a premium member you will still sometimes wait to get into that sim despite their efforts to deal with AFKers). The fetish club I lived next door to was so popular that the sim was constantly full, and I did go check it out and it was not an AFK place either. Fortunately, although I was located right next door to it, I was in the neighbouring sim, so I did not have to worry about access to my land, just constant harassing IMs from guys who saw my name on the radar. 

I think there are a lot of cases where people are making unfair use of sim resources without gaming traffic, to the point where others cannot access their land at all and I am not sure that there is much that can be done about that. I notice one of the sims near where I live now is regularly full, not 24/7 bot full, but very often full, because of traffic to a 1024m parcel, and there are a lot of people trying to offload their land in that sim. 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

Not long ago, I lived near another fetish club on Zindra that did not use such a system (I know the club you mean and if you are not a premium member you will still sometimes wait to get into that sim despite their efforts to deal with AFKers). The fetish club I lived next door to was so popular that the sim was constantly full, and I did go check it out and it was not an AFK place either. Fortunately, although I was located right next door to it, I was in the neighbouring sim, so I did not have to worry about access to my land, just constant harassing IMs from guys who saw my name on the radar. 

I think there are a lot of cases where people are making unfair use of sim resources without gaming traffic, to the point where others cannot access their land at all and I am not sure that there is much that can be done about that. I notice one of the sims near where I live now is regularly full, not 24/7 bot full, but very often full, because of traffic to a 1024m parcel, and there are a lot of people trying to offload their land in that sim. 

Yeah...

I live on a usually quiet M rated region, we have no clubs, but a while back, some IDIOT, tried opening an "Elite Shopping Event" on a 2048 parcel, he planned on having 52 merchant stalls, and running a 3 week event every month.

Fortunately he cancelled the plan when a week before it was due to open, he still only had 3 stalls signed up, his, his gf's and his builder's.

 

Problem with "Pro-Rata people quotas though is... You'd never be allowed visitors if you owned anything smaller than a 2048, what's your "Fair share of a 40 person region limit when you only own 1/64th of a region ?

Not enough to allow you to visit your home, never mind a partner or a hot date.

There's no easy -auto-solution, but people keep demanding one.

[Exavor Diesel]

On 7/31/2023 at 8:47 AM, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Yeah...

I live on a usually quiet M rated region, we have no clubs, but a while back, some IDIOT, tried opening an "Elite Shopping Event" on a 2048 parcel, he planned on having 52 merchant stalls, and running a 3 week event every month.

Fortunately he cancelled the plan when a week before it was due to open, he still only had 3 stalls signed up, his, his gf's and his builder's.

 

Problem with "Pro-Rata people quotas though is... You'd never be allowed visitors if you owned anything smaller than a 2048, what's your "Fair share of a 40 person region limit when you only own 1/64th of a region ?

Not enough to allow you to visit your home, never mind a partner or a hot date.

There's no easy -auto-solution, but people keep demanding one.

One potential solution would be for LL to increase the agent or avatar limit per region but there will become a point whereby LL will need to increase the amount of resources (CPU cores/memory etc) to the VMs hosting the regions as to prevent overutilisation and server side lag. I'm guessing this is perhaps why they haven't done it. Perhaps it could be done on a case by case basis in situations like this. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Exavor Diesel

[CossetteAlarie]

I have a neighbor running a wax museum 24/7 with 40 avs. like nobody moves, nobody changes their cameras, zero chat on local. And it's not even a club, supposedly it's a "meeting place''. I reported it as a bot farm but it's still 40 avs 24/7. I found this thread and it sounds like maybe SL is a waste of money? I don't get the point of a wax museum, he doesn't have events or anything. It's just a bunch of zombies standing there. The guy is on a little corner lot in the region and constantly using 100% of the resources of the region. It reminds me of someone on another parcel who is for sure gaming traffic with bogus avs, but they never use more than 20 avs.

 

 

 

[Stephanie Misfit]

39 minutes ago, CossetteAlarie said:

I have a neighbor running a wax museum 24/7 with 40 avs. like nobody moves, nobody changes their cameras, zero chat on local. And it's not even a club, supposedly it's a "meeting place''. I reported it as a bot farm but it's still 40 avs 24/7. I found this thread and it sounds like maybe SL is a waste of money? I don't get the point of a wax museum, he doesn't have events or anything. It's just a bunch of zombies standing there. The guy is on a little corner lot in the region and constantly using 100% of the resources of the region. It reminds me of someone on another parcel who is for sure gaming traffic with bogus avs, but they never use more than 20 avs.

That's terrible. Do you have some friends who can report it for you as well?

[Exavor Diesel]

1 hour ago, CossetteAlarie said:

I have a neighbor running a wax museum 24/7 with 40 avs. like nobody moves, nobody changes their cameras, zero chat on local. And it's not even a club, supposedly it's a "meeting place''. I reported it as a bot farm but it's still 40 avs 24/7. I found this thread and it sounds like maybe SL is a waste of money? I don't get the point of a wax museum, he doesn't have events or anything. It's just a bunch of zombies standing there. The guy is on a little corner lot in the region and constantly using 100% of the resources of the region. It reminds me of someone on another parcel who is for sure gaming traffic with bogus avs, but they never use more than 20 avs.

 

 

 

Sounds interesting. Where is this place?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

On 7/31/2023 at 3:47 AM, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Yeah...

I live on a usually quiet M rated region, we have no clubs, but a while back, some IDIOT, tried opening an "Elite Shopping Event" on a 2048 parcel, he planned on having 52 merchant stalls, and running a 3 week event every month.

Fortunately he cancelled the plan when a week before it was due to open, he still only had 3 stalls signed up, his, his gf's and his builder's.

 

Problem with "Pro-Rata people quotas though is... You'd never be allowed visitors if you owned anything smaller than a 2048, what's your "Fair share of a 40 person region limit when you only own 1/64th of a region ?

Not enough to allow you to visit your home, never mind a partner or a hot date.

There's no easy -auto-solution, but people keep demanding one.

that 40 person limit is totally random. They could make it 60, or 80, or 100

if someone has the sim max avatars on their plot 24/7, defo report them

Edited November 15, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
added a line

[Polenth Yue]

3 hours ago, CossetteAlarie said:

I have a neighbor running a wax museum 24/7 with 40 avs. like nobody moves, nobody changes their cameras, zero chat on local. And it's not even a club, supposedly it's a "meeting place''. I reported it as a bot farm but it's still 40 avs 24/7. I found this thread and it sounds like maybe SL is a waste of money?

The majority of mainland regions don't have many people on them. They're low density residential and commercial. I've lived in the same spot for over ten years and any issues have been fleeting. That's why the frequent advice is that if you have no special attachment to your land, it's usually easier to move. Most places won't have the same issue.

If you do want to stay, reporting is hit or miss, but generally goes better if you can get others to also send in reports. Though often these problems end up solving themselves, because the business fails.

 

[CossetteAlarie]

yeah i will wait and see if my report does something. before i out them here. i'm not a jerk. i did just go over there with a friend who has been on SL for decades and we tried to talk to everyone on the parcel and got one reply who asked "are bots against the rules?" lol.

the one i know for sure who is gaming traffic is http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Zoxen/146/176/1800

but they stay around 20. i don't have any land there at the moment so it's not my concern.

[CossetteAlarie]

2 minutes ago, Polenth Yue said:

The majority of mainland regions don't have many people on them. They're low density residential and commercial. I've lived in the same spot for over ten years and any issues have been fleeting. That's why the frequent advice is that if you have no special attachment to your land, it's usually easier to move. Most places won't have the same issue.

If you do want to stay, reporting is hit or miss, but generally goes better if you can get others to also send in reports. Though often these problems end up solving themselves, because the business fails.

 

easier to move, are you buying my parcel? i'd need at least 100,000 linden. but the going rate here would be 170,000