Revisiting the new player experience and how it needs improvement

[Katherine Heartsong]

I sometimes head to the new players areas looking to lend a hand, advice, answer basic questions, encourage folks to get through the onboarding etc cause SL really is a cool place. 

Then I see that 50% of the non-new avatars who are also in those locations are behaving so immaturely in the chat and through their behaviours that I just wonder why any new players stay? There's simply no well-organized welcome, often just a bunch of dancing loons with particle emitters causing lag, dropping f-bombs and general ass-hat banter back and forth in the chat, just wow. Folks have to remember that these new players have no clue sometimes how to even ask a question in chat and get intimidated by their first impressions.  

Yeah, I'm an old curmudgeon and have no patience for idiots. But I'm also a 30 year veteran of user experience in real life, and SL's first experiences make onboarding a horrific thing.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Katherine Heartsong

[Paulsian]

1 hour ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

There's simply no well-organized welcome, often just a bunch of dancing loons with particle emitters causing lag, dropping f-bombs and general ass-hat banter back and forth in the chat

Think the biker bar region recruiting underage females from the social island music portal was bad.

Sometimes I feel like there are well-organized people in this world who seek to destroy anything good and target kindness. I think the game for them is see how many new residents they can get rid of who do not fit their mold and who refuse to look the same, shop at the same places, push the same products? 

It's happening to the linden homes. I've put in so many tickets and jira reports since i've noticed the trend about 2 years ago and no body appears to care, or the ones who do are not getting the messages?. Imagine getting your first linden home and then noticing the thumbnail photo for the parcel was changed to a pornographic image by the previous owner and under the about land media and sound tabs have unsecure links saved so for what im guessing new resident gets some how hacked passivly just by being on their linden home parcel and infecting / compromising other residents they bring back to visit or passing by on the street? Imagine that 5 times per day per user times how many are doing it? 100s? 1000s.

Who would do such a thing? I've tried and tried and tried reaching out to the point of showing our leaders exactly what that would look like. Not once did they reply. I was only met with being attacked. My network was hacked, my iphone, my secondary computer system with security camera, my main computer files were stolen before my eyes, my phone goes crazy security camera computer goes crazy. I go crazy. I went crazy I smashed those computers and phone. But im back and sharing. A lot more careful. Don't get me started on those neat music players people wear that sends phantom cache files to your hard drive that execute and self terminate. 

That is why word of mouth, as far as, suggesting family or rl friends come here hardly exist. I could see this happening if I helped my grandma come here. How do get this porn photo off my house, who's that lady in the photo she looks underage, what's that "music"?  

Next time you get a "new" linden home be sure before you step foot on the parcel delete the previous owners UNSECURE media and sound links or whatever else links they put there by right clicking the parcel and selecting about land. 

I've recommended that when the land is released the about land settings go to default. Try mentioning security concerns like that in "offical groups" who pretend to care about residents, you better be prepared to be banned from the group. 

Yes Linden Lab people are activly seeking to destroy you and any opportunity they can exploit, as well as, your clients. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Paulsian
correction

[Rowan Amore]

25 minutes ago, Paulsian said:

Think the biker bar region recruiting underage females from the social island music portal was bad.

Sometimes I feel like there are well-organized people in this world who seek to destroy anything good and target kindness. I think the game for them is see how many new residents they can get rid of who do not fit their mold and who refuse to look the same, shop at the same places, push the same products? 

It's happening to the linden homes. I've put in so many tickets and jira reports since i've noticed the trend about 2 years ago and no body appears to care, or the ones who do are not getting the messages?. Imagine getting your first linden home and then noticing the thumbnail photo for the parcel was changed to a pornographic image by the previous owner and under the about land media and sound tabs have unsecure links saved so for what im guessing new resident gets some how hacked passivly just by being on their linden home parcel and infecting / compromising other residents they bring back to visit or passing by on the street? Imagine that 5 times per day per user times how many are doing it? 100s? 1000s.

Who would do such a thing? I've tried and tried and tried reaching out to the point of showing our leaders exactly what that would look like. Not once did they reply. I was only met with being attacked. My network was hacked, my iphone, my secondary computer system with security camera, my main computer files were stolen before my eyes, my phone goes crazy security camera computer goes crazy. I go crazy. I went crazy I smashed those computers and phone. But im back and sharing. A lot more careful. Don't get me started on those neat music players people wear that sends phantom cache files to your hard drive that execute and self terminate. 

That is why word of mouth, as far as, suggesting family or rl friends come here hardly exist. I could see this happening if I helped my grandma come here. How do get this porn photo off my house, who's that lady in the photo she looks underage, what's that "music"?  

Next time you get a "new" linden home be sure before you step foot on the parcel delete the previous owners UNSECURE media and sound links or whatever else links they put there by right clicking the parcel and selecting about land. 

I've recommended that when the land is released the about land settings go to default. Try mentioning security concerns like that in "offical groups" who pretend to care about residents, you better be prepared to be banned from the group. 

Yes Linden Lab people are activly seeking to destroy you and any opportunity they can exploit, as well as, your clients. 

You'd think we'd have seen it mentioned somewhere before if it were 1000s of people.  🤔

[Nick0678]

40 minutes ago, Paulsian said:

Imagine getting your first linden home and then noticing the thumbnail photo for the parcel was changed to a pornographic image by the previous owner and under the about land media and sound tabs have unsecure links saved so for what im guessing new resident gets some how hacked passivly just by being on their linden home parcel and infecting / compromising other residents they bring back to visit or passing by on the street? Imagine that 5 times per day per user times how many are doing it? 100s? 1000s.

Interesting... thank you.

[Paulsian]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

You'd think we'd have seen it mentioned somewhere before if it were 1000s of people.  🤔

I'm unsure how many people/corporations are activing seeking to exploit and/or destroy us. They are organized and sl savvy.

 

[Rowan Amore]

8 minutes ago, Paulsian said:

I'm unsure how many people/corporations are activing seeking to exploit and/or destroy us. They are organized and sl savvy.

 

I've been in SL 12 + years.  I've rented on private estates and owned mainland and Linden homes.  Not once in all that time have I encountered a parcel media 'hack'.  That's not to say it couldn't happen as I'm not aware of how that all works.  

Actively seeking to.exploit or destroy us?  Umm...probably not.

[Paulsian]

14 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Actively seeking to.exploit or destroy us?  Umm...probably not.

But likely so.

 

[Paulsian]

Besides that madness I would suggest Linden Lab monitor videos on youtube named second life trolling (which are apparently gaining popularity and report them. I saw troll/s go into peoples homes and not leave, one was an elderly lady and I sware she was moments away from having a stroke or heart attack. She had a linden home. Is she still here? 

Assuming new residents know how to install a security orb (even though included in the content pack) is not enough. I can see it now but there's a notecard explaining... How many new residents understand what a notecard is or where to find it in inventory. But it pops up...click and drag it to the wall...I'm having a flash back on how to unpack or even get anything to rez where i wanted it to (in my meadowbrook home) when I first started. I grew up with gaming and even I was like what the (self censored). 

I would suggest every parcel pre-secure and if they want it figure out how to disable them they may do so vs leaving installation of security to new residents. I would suggest that to jira but I can already see it closed/unactionable.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Paulsian
after thought

[Chris71i]

14 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

I proposed something like this in another thread some time ago.  Instead of breezing  through the start area, give incentives for.completing tasks.  Changing clothes, opening boxes and using.whatever is in there, finding something in search, etc.  The new player is given 'points' like some stores do.  At the end, they can exchange their points for selected merchandise in that region.  Merchandise from actual SL creators.  Maybe a rotating set of items.  

 

That is a great idea. Actually a young girl newbie asked me how to get a beautiful looking head like I have (EvoX) I met in a sandbox a few days ago. Luckily she was really keen and had watched a couple of videos and was catching on fast in her first week. I was like do you really wanna take on a mesh head this quick?

Anyway I showed here where to get the Genus group gift head and showed her Freebie Galaxy and got her up and running a bit and gave her a one on one with HUDS. To tell the truth one of my fav things in SL is when someone helped you or you pay it forward and any in SL do just that at the drop of a hat        

[Chris71i]

14 hours ago, QwiQ said:

The only issue I had when I arrived last year was truthfully just other residents.

When I joined, you went through the whole induction thing which taught you the basics of how to get around and how to communicate, then you end up in some sort of communal open area with a mix of newbs and older residents just milling about.

It's just really off putting, it's silent because no one is talking in open chat, and daring to IM anyone was usually absolute carnage.

As a male avatar if I IM'd another male avatar, then it was tumbleweed city. I'm guessing because shooting the breeze with another guy wasn't his gameplan for SL that day (or any day).
IM a female avatar, and be prepared to jump through hoops to prove you're not the alt of some ex/current lover trying to catch them out in some way.

Most of the "New Resident" areas I visited were pretty much the same until luckily someone pointed me towards the Caledon Oxbridge University.

This place and the genuine open people there were what stopped me from throwing in the towel within the first couple of days. 

It seems to me it could act as a model and an inspiration for how new residents should be welcomed into SL.

(Please note I have no affiliation with Caledon, other than as a grateful noob 🙂)

At first it is a boring mess of technology then you meet someone who helps you and you realise it about relationships an socialising and your in a fancy sandbox/chatroom. Not too many other games ask you how your going and help you laugh at your crappy attempts at making an avi or building things..

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Chris71i

[Prokofy Neva]

On 12/13/2021 at 2:22 AM, Paulsian said:

Exactly, when I first started and I saw the light (at the I think it was orentation island) with the big aquarium the one that once you leave you can never return. I was like heck yah im going to explore every meter of this world thinking it was like world of warcraft. Not the case at all. I did google search for the best 3D sandbox building game and had some expectations.

Funny story: When I was newer than I am now, I went to social island and discovered the portals. I took the music portal (unsure the logic for where those portals send people) I ended up on someones private biker club region and they only welcomed females. (dont get me started on how disturbing that is). I was confronted by a very angry person telling me to bugger off, so I was like cheers, went back to social island thinking that was crazy. Took the music portal again and it kept teleporting me to the bikers whatever. The guy was even more angry and I was like could you please ban me so I can teleport to somewhere normal? lol funny story actually, I will never forget unfortunately. 

I've recommended map overlays that show what is public linden owned and what is private. A total map overhaul would help everyone. Getting the Map button added to the Toolbar was a major milestone. Considering it's a building "game"/platform and new people love to build and learn building, if we could just get that little hammer added on the side Toolbar with maybe a sub pop up for educational sandboxes that does not require a group memberships, dare I say a Linden Academy, Linden Homes would benefit from a phone system that can be left on wall and or taken for new linden home residents who never built in 3D. Residents would click it and be provided with directory of resources tips and tricks via | Utility Linden Virtual Assistant Hologram | "Welcome to your new home, if you would like to change the style of home click the mailbox, while your there looking at the styles be sure to click the content pack and when you are finished I will help you place some home furnishings maybe a desk and office chair "when you have time lets learn some new building skills" "Would you prefer to learn about model trains, doll houses, or general building?" while seated at the desk we can practice with larger objects and then work to smaller object model sets as we progress.

It would be powerful to be able to explore and build with ease. Not get blocked, banned, bannished, bullied, and so on while trying to learn. I guess learning all this stuff the hard way is possible and has proven to be somewhat sustainable? I don't want anyone else to feel this way or have any negative experiences related to official content. This is the best building game/platform/world in the world in my option. It's an aquired taste of creations dating back going on 19 years. It has history that should never be lost. Roblox nope, Ylands nope, Facebook..Meta Never, Unreal blah. (The unreal engine is beautiful but not a fan of their building.) I only work with the best. If I have to work with what I got with the best I will do so. 

 

 

What I wonder about this "portals" story is how the venues were selected that went into the portals. Randomly? They must have been if the people greeted you angrily with rules like "only females."

But it has been my suggestion for some 16 years that the Lindens make these portals be essentially billboards you can rent and pay a fee, so that your venue will be put in them. That way you get traffic from newbies, and they get merchants who really want them.

The forums harpies always object to this idea, saying it will fill up with XXX or low quality stuff -- but then isn't a random system doing that as you describe? Or just WHAT is their system and what is it NOW? 

They object that it will be too "commercialized". And what is wrong with that? It's a commercial world, with a marketplace. People spend money in it, sometimes lots. Why not be able to pick a billboard (not be sent randomly) of where you want to go? Shopping, music, exploration, hang-out, racecars, horses, whatever. 

It can rotate so that you have two weeks and then you cannot get an ad again for X time. This was how the Lindens' old telehub ad system works, and it is how I discovered great places like the (now gone) Riverwalk when I was a newbie.

The price can be set high to keep out cheapie places with AFK avatars and junk. The Lindens can have rules -- no adult venues, or at least -- if not random, properly marked -- staff must be present, or whatever rules they need. They have such rules for welcome areas, but those rules are too high a bar for most venues. For welcome areas where the managers are expected to teach newbies and provide freebies of substance, perhaps it makes sense. But for a music club? It can state that it is open only on weekends, or whatever.

It would open up a whole new area of valid advertising which is sorely needed in this world with broken search. I think this simply has to be done. And it will be done when Lindens come along who shed their aversion to commerce, common with the early technocommunists, or their aversion to low and middle brow entertainment, common to certain other technoutopians. 

 

[Prokofy Neva]

On 12/12/2021 at 7:18 AM, Marigold Devin said:

Mine is a similar story. I landed in Korea2, and met up with a couple of other relative newbies who had been fortunate enough to be picked up on their first day by people who had shown them a few welcoming places. They shared these destinations with me. None exist now, but they were great. One was a smallish parcel of land on Boonootoo sim. Really, looking back, it was what they called camping, you placed yourself on a dance mat and were paid a few Linden dollars every hour, but we were really sociable people, would go exploring and meet up there regularly to chat and swap notes. Another place I was taken to was amazing - The Lost Gardens of Apollo - one of the guardians of the sim was just wanting to share this glorious experience with people, and I felt so privileged.  It only exists as a historical build now and is usually deserted. Another place we all regularly visited, again no longer in existence, was This Second. There were some shops I recall, and a couple of major real life companies used to advertise there, so I guess that was how it was funded.  We went for the music, which was soothing and sexy Spanish guitar music, and the hammocks and dance floor. 

One of the destinations our group shared a group of regions including Alady Island and Noob Island. These belonged to a wonderful and very generous-spirited person. There were plenty of freebies on offer, including accommodation that you could either use for the time you were logged in and therefore experience a different kind of home every time you were there. I plumped for a town house one day with a "sea" view, and a loft apartment another time. I rented an apartment for a few months so I could furnish it and have a home base, met a few more people, including one who came crashing through my window. He showed me a few more great places in Second Life, I returned to Boonootoo to share these with my original friends. 

Then I randomly was teleporting around the grid and found myself in a skybox. It was resellers store. One of the co-owners was very patient and kind and became my mentor and best friend.  He gave me a HUD called Hoppy Pay - again no longer in existence - to use to explore the grid, and I found a lot of new places and people that way too.  

Those initial experiences in Second Life are what makes people want to stay in the majority of cases I think.

Linden Lab has, over the years, attempted different ways of retaining users.  I recently created a brand new alt to see if the orientation process had changed and it had. It was far less tedious than the previous version had been (my perception of it at any rate, everyone has a preference obviously), and I had a choice of places to go to when I was ready to leave.  The problem is though, a lot of people just want to skip the preliminaries and get on with the game, and especially if they have a lot of gaming experience - which I certainly didn't - Second Life is bound to feel stilted and boring, because there are no actual aims or prizes.  Second Life is and always will be a niche market, but even so it's not doing too badly.  The recent upsurge in premium accounts because of the success of the new Linden homes must be proving very lucrative to Linden Labs. Having said that, there is always room for improvement, and any suggestions are taken on board. 

I remember a few years ago, I sent a letter - an actual snail mail - to Linden Lab suggesting what might be a good idea would be a dedicated island of mentors that anyone, new or old, could access if they got stuck with something, because here on the forums we were seeing very much a lot of the same problems coming up time and time again. Coincidentally, or maybe because several people suggested something similar at around the same time, Linden Lab did indeed create a couple of islands where with just one click of a "Help" button in world you could be teleported across and meet face to face with official mentors and other volunteers and find solutions to issues.  It unfortunately did not last long, and I don't actually know why.

There are also a lot of places that established residents will recommend via these forums as being places to receive extra tutorials on specific interests - building, scripting, textures, suchlike - and a ton of videos are available on Youtube.  

Human nature comes into play, and with the best will in the world, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink! But as I said earlier, never be afraid to contact Linden Lab with any suggestions. They do listen, and of course they do want Second Life to continue going from strength to strength.

No "mentors" please.

Such a system always ends in tears and gets ended -- and the Lindens have gone through bunches of them. I remember when I was new, SL was small enough that if you clicked "help," you got a live person, and those people would sometimes be Lindens, sometimes resident volunteers. The residents would often try to hustle you on their stores, and sending you landmarks or take you there, you'd click on the TP and be in their store or venue.

Some of them loved playing police, and a tenant once IM'd me in alarm that one of these "helpers" was in her house, trying to tell her what to do. She hadn't figured out how to use ban yet despite getting instructions. I went and ejected him.

The Lindens need to put paid, benefited, full time staff on this boring but hard and important job. Not contract Moles or contract people of any kind. Full-time, benefited staff. It helps force change more rapidly, for one, when people who can make decisions are deployed.

Simple things like turning off Voice would help as this is constantly abused to heckle and annoy and harass people, sometimes sexually.

I remember Jack Linden, an accomplished programmer, started out as a "liaison" as they called Lindens who dealt with the public back then, working the welcome area. That's how many people came to know him. He then worked his way up to VP, although it wasn't called "VP of Product" as it is now, it was something more like "VP of Community".

He was slow in making change, sometimes due to his computer ideology, sometimes due to other Lindens, but he did eventually make important changes. And his office hours were real, with real protests and real answers. Not somebody reading off what is already on the blog.

Just like Door Dash is sending the engineers out to do actual door dashes, so the Lindens need to send all staff out to the welcome areas for newbie duty.

[Lindal Kidd]

I semi-agree with Prok.

Where I agree with her is the desirability of having actual Linden personnel on the ground, doing liaison and newbie help.

But, while I acknowledge the downsides of resident mentors that she cites, I would also say that most of the resident helpers I've encountered have NOT been in it for glory, or for "playing policeman", or for generating traffic to their store or venue. They've been genuinely helpful.

[Chris71i]

On 12/18/2021 at 3:06 AM, Lindal Kidd said:

Thanks for the nod to COU, we're happy that we were able to give you a better start in SL!

Other excellent newbie-helping places are New Resident Island (White Tiger Mentors), Firestorm Help Island, Ajuda SL Brasil (for Portuguese speakers), New Citizens Inc. (NCI, several locations), and Builders Brewery.

Actually I dropped in on social island and saw some new players trying to lean with a couple of  avis stirring people up (acting really immature). Asking if anyone needs a hand someone who was keen said so.  After explaining Sl is a bit more fun  than a newby place seems, a quick Tp tour of some cool places  and that person got keen to learn how to play.  Anyway I got a new friend in my time zone and had some fun. Some awesome feedback was some people already had been helpful and friendly and that person felt really welcome. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Chris71i

[Caroline Takeda]

On 12/17/2021 at 7:41 PM, Paulsian said:

I'm unsure how many people/corporations are activing seeking to exploit and/or destroy us. They are organized and sl savvy.

 

All right, this real life trend to see conspiracies everywhere finally came to Second Life as well.
 

Quote

I go crazy

We knew that already.

[cunomar]

Heres an idea .

Hows about an SL history sim dedicated mostly to the evolution of avatars , no challenge or test tied to mothers apron strings but rather just the components allowing users to teach themselves in their own time how to shuffle the cards to make a suit . Free stuff from every era that can't be removed from the sim , which will likely bore the experienced clowns , attract those who want to help , and save newbies spending on all the wrong things .

And if the destination guide is to continue promoting the same 10 usually silent or empty or both sims in whats hot or newbie friendly categories, then add a link to the history sim so newbies can find it of their own accord .

 

[Lucia Nightfire]

42 minutes ago, cunomar said:

Heres an idea .

Hows about an SL history sim dedicated mostly to the evolution of avatars , no challenge or test tied to mothers apron strings but rather just the components allowing users to teach themselves in their own time how to shuffle the cards to make a suit . Free stuff from every era that can't be removed from the sim , which will likely bore the experienced clowns , attract those who want to help , and save newbies spending on all the wrong things .

And if the destination guide is to continue promoting the same 10 usually silent or empty or both sims in whats hot or newbie friendly categories, then add a link to the history sim so newbies can find it of their own accord .

 

Newbs already get enough of a glimpse of SL's horrible avatar history if/when they take off their default avatar's alpha mask(s).

[cunomar]

I guess you have been here long enough to know nothing is compatible and nothing makes sense , why won't this fit my system av , why wont that fit my mesh av , I've heard some with years of experience ask what the hell is bom . Instructions - drag it to the floor , right click and open then drag it to your inventory , it doesnt work oh maybe its the other kind or maybe the other .

Imagine if era's were separated and everything fit that era's av , you only have to learn how to unpack and dress , figure out what the hell an alpha is .

Then you move to the next level where you learn all the same again by a different (mesh) method layers etc  , Then the next level BOM .

At least a new player can go forward from there with some basic understanding of how messed up everything is and an idea of what questions they should ask .

[rasterscan]

Finding someone helpful is essential for newcomers. The new user experience is just an obstacle course. Do you still earn fake lindens there that get taken away upon course completion ?

[Lindal Kidd]

4 hours ago, rasterscan said:

Finding someone helpful is essential for newcomers. The new user experience is just an obstacle course. Do you still earn fake lindens there that get taken away upon course completion ?

No. That was part of the Social Island tutorial setup. The new Welcome Island does not use this, but it does provide instruction on how to get things and then find them in your inventory.

[Chris71i]

On 1/12/2022 at 11:55 PM, rasterscan said:

Finding someone helpful is essential for newcomers. 

Very true, often people join SL because they are lonely or bored and meeting someone helps them through the fist few weeks of familiarisation with everything. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Chris71i said:

often people join SL because they are lonely or bored

and end up lonely and bored in SL. 🥴