New region idea: An Adult Region.

[Evangeline Ling]

12 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

This! 

It continues to puzzle me why people argue so strenuously against the very idea of a continent that they would never have to visit unless they wanted to do so. I don't want an Adult LH for myself, but I certainly don't begrudge others the chance to wish for an area that is rated Adult.

I mean, how exactly does people asking for Adult LHs affect me? Answer: not at all, so why not let them express their wishes without all the attempts to shut them down?

Thanks for being the voice of reason on this once again Sylvia...

Unfortunately there will always be people who will argue against something that never effects them simply because it does not fit into their own personal preferences.  As long as what you want or do parallels what they want they will be quiet but the moment you express a desire for something that gives them no benefit personally they will spend inordinate amounts of time dragging anyone who would dare express a preference for it.  

Reasonable people are going to look at a platform like Second Life and say, hey this is big enough for the things i want as well as the things other folks want as well... and as a key will PAY FOR... and since we are all paying customers the economic benefits in a way help all of us.

[Syo Emerald]

1 hour ago, Evangeline Ling said:

Thanks for being the voice of reason on this once again Sylvia

The only voice of reason is the one telling people to actually consider what M rated land allows them to do. Unless you want to run a brothel (which you aren't allowed in Linden homes anyway, independend of the rating) its really difficult to picture what the great benefit of A rated land is. (From my understanding making avatars invisible from outside the parcel fullfills the general need for "behind closed doors", a Mole/Lindne may correct me on that one, but this is how I precieved it so far.)

Considering this thing here was started claiming M rated land is for prudes and they want an empty parcel.... well...

I'm not against people expressing ideas, but if someone opens a forum thread I do think the purpose is that the idea is intended to be discussed, right? So this criticism of the critics comes a little bit off as "only yes-sayers welcome".

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

19 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

 Unless you want to run a brothel (which you aren't allowed in Linden homes anyway, independend of the rating) its really difficult to picture what the great benefit of A rated land is. 

Thank you for proving my point.

Why are people in here doing cross examinations of those who expressed a wish for Adult homes? Why do people feel that those who want Adult homes have to justify themselves to you? How about "I want one because I want one?" as a response? That should be sufficient. 

Seriously, why does anyone care enough to argue against it? 

[Kathlen Onyx]

15 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Seriously, why does anyone care enough to argue against it? 

Simple. Because money and resources could go into something that will benefit more people when there is already something that satisfies most of what people need. It would be way different if Linden homes were G rated and you were asking for a moderate rating. But right now you can do everything that is considered Adult on a M rated region, just behind closed doors. From what I've been told you can even walk around naked in Bellisseria if you like. Just no public sex.

Maybe if examples were given it might be better understood. What exactly do you want to be able to do that you can't do now? and don't say "anything we want" because the land will have a covenant so that won't be true. 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

3 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Simple. Because money and resources could go into something that will benefit more people when there is already something that satisfies most of what people need.

Using that argument, we can pooh pooh pretty much anything that anyone suggests they might want LL to start providing. 

Really, I think it boils down to people not liking the whole concept of "Adult", and therefore don't want the Adult community to be given anything. That whole thought process seems strange to me, but at the same time it's not totally surprising. Human nature is what it is.

[Kathlen Onyx]

40 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Using that argument, we can pooh pooh pretty much anything that anyone suggests they might want LL to start providing. 

Really, I think it boils down to people not liking the whole concept of "Adult", and therefore don't want the Adult community to be given anything. That whole thought process seems strange to me, but at the same time it's not totally surprising. Human nature is what it is.

Yet...no examples

[Syo Emerald]

1 hour ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Thank you for proving my point.

Why are people in here doing cross examinations of those who expressed a wish for Adult homes? Why do people feel that those who want Adult homes have to justify themselves to you? How about "I want one because I want one?" as a response? That should be sufficient. 

Seriously, why does anyone care enough to argue against it? 

And thank you for underlining my point. So this is a thing not open to discussion then? Unless you are not 100% YEAH GREAT IDEA, WHOOOOO!!! you aren't allowed welcome to comment? That is not how this forum has ever worked at any point. I don't get whats the great problem about just elaborating a bit, when asked a question.

[Nick0678]

1 hour ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

From what I've been told you can even walk around naked in Bellisseria if you like.

Nope..

(..of course if someone disagrees they could try walking around with a naked male avatar somewhere near to a mole/linden and tell us how fast they got banned.)

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 minute ago, Nick0678 said:

Nope..

(..of course if someone disagrees they could try walking around with a naked male avatar somewhere near to a mole/linden and tell us how fast they got banned.)

I actually remember a post I made where I thought not either but was promptly told I was wrong.

https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/466857-linden-homes-and-nudity/

 

[Abnor Mole]

Let's try to keep the topic the point of discussion, not people. Ad Hominem is a logical fallacy in discussions like this one and is only going to inflame, escalate, and end up with the thread being locked. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Abnor Mole
added photo

[Coffee Pancake]

9 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

I actually remember a post I made where I thought not either but was promptly told I was wrong.

https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/466857-linden-homes-and-nudity/

 

It doesn't matter if it's technically ok, it's culturally not ok. Belli is more conservative than the covenant and land ratings alone dictate.

No one wants to push their luck and find out for real where the line is by wandering around openly inviting abuse reports.

[Nick0678]

7 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

I actually remember a post I made where I thought not either but was promptly told I was wrong.

https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/466857-linden-homes-and-nudity/

 

Maturity ratings exist for a reason and are very clear. Anything else is secondary.

(of course someone could take the risk and do whatever they like and i will report them since they are in an M region. They can later discuss with Governance about their avatar being naked because they didn't want it to have sun tan lines.)

Quote

Moderate 

Second Life's Moderate designation accommodates most of the non-adult activities common in Second Life. Dance clubs, bars, stores and malls, galleries, music venues, beaches, parks, and other spaces for socializing, creating, and learning all support a Moderate designation so long as they do not host publicly promoted adult activities or content and do not use adult search tags. Groups, events and classifieds that relate to this broad range of activities and themes generally should also be designated as Moderate.

Residents in these spaces should therefore expect to see a variety of themes and content. Stores that sell a range of content that includes some "sexy" clothing or objects can generally reside in Moderate rather than Adult regions. Dance clubs that feature "burlesque" acts can also generally reside in Moderate regions as long as they don't promote sexual conduct, for instance through pose balls (whether in "backrooms" or more visible spaces). However if any of these businesses uses adult-oriented search tags, the region may be categorized as Adult and blocked from appearing in non-Adult search.

 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

50 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Maturity ratings exist for a reason and are very clear. Anything else is secondary.

(of course someone could take the risk and do whatever they like and i will report them since they are in an M region. They can later discuss with Governance about their avatar being naked because they didn't want it to have sun tan lines.)

 

The article you quote from here contains a link to the LL WIki for clarification re: nudity:

Quote

 

Is simple nudity without sex Adult?

Depending on context, nudity may not require an Adult rating. For example all of the following could be rated Moderate:

A nude beach without sexual activity.

Skin vendors showing a nude skin to display the product.

Nude art that is not sexual.

Strip clubs that do not use adult words in search or host sex furniture.

Depending on the context, exposed genitalia may not be considered Adult. For example:

Hanging out at a nude beach would be fine.

Walking around pants-less on the mainland could be inappropriate.

Non-sexualized depictions of nudity are Moderate NOT Adult.

 

One can always roll the dice to find out what "could be inappropriate" means, but it can be read as "not necessarily prohibited". 

[Nick0678]

6 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

The article you quote from here contains a link to the LL WIki for clarification re: nudity:

One can always roll the dice to find out what "could be inappropriate" means, but it can be read as "not necessarily prohibited". 

Sure that why i will report them and they can figure it out with the Lindens.

[Syo Emerald]

1 hour ago, Nick0678 said:

Maturity ratings exist for a reason and are very clear. Anything else is secondary.

(of course someone could take the risk and do whatever they like and i will report them since they are in an M region. They can later discuss with Governance about their avatar being naked because they didn't want it to have sun tan lines.)

 

 

7 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Sure that why i will report them and they can figure it out with the Lindens.

Yes and there are official statements by Linden Lab, that you can be naked. Now I feel like some people here - want - M rated land to be more prude than necessary for the sake of it. And those people should go to G rated land, honestly.

Maybe we do need A rated Belli. Not because M wouldn't provide everything the average private residence would need, but because people.

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It doesn't matter if it's technically ok, it's culturally not ok. Belli is more conservative than the covenant and land ratings alone dictate.

No one wants to push their luck and find out for real where the line is by wandering around openly inviting abuse reports.

Seems to me then that the rating system is up for interpretation, which IMO should not be.  I think it would be especially confusing to new people who have no idea what is culturally ok or not as we have residents from all countries.  It should be cut and dried. You allow nudity or not. Plain and simple. But of course this is only my opinion and LL has left it open for individual interpretation via being able to AR them.

[Nick0678]

1 minute ago, Syo Emerald said:

 

Yes and there are official statements by Linden Lab, that you can be naked. Now I feel like some people here - want - M rated land to be more prude than necessary for the sake of it. And those people should go to G rated land, honestly.

Maybe we do need A rated Belli. Not because M wouldn't provide everything the average private residence would need, but because people.

I don't recall the Moles making any NUDE beaches in Belliseria.

Until the moles decide to make dedicated places for nudity, whenever i see a person (male or female) walking around naked on the street or the forest, river etc i will simply AReport them and of course they can discuss with the Moles/Lindens if they were trying to connect with virtual "mother nature", doing "art" or whatever..

[Evangeline Ling]

4 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

(From my understanding making avatars invisible from outside the parcel fullfills the general need for "behind closed doors", a Mole/Lindne may correct me on that one, but this is how I precieved it so far.)

 

See you don't even know what that means either because it has NEVER been clarified and has ALWAYS been left to be vague.  I have had people say hiding view does equal "behind closed doors" i have had others say no you also need physical walls.

 

So if @abnor Mole or @patch Linden or some other linden wants to give us a once and for all hands down undeniably CLEAR definition of this once and for all it would be helpful. 

I would think if just clicking a box on your about land page was enough then YES that would clear up most of the issues for a lot of people (not everyone, but a lot).  But as long as I cannot use my adult animated pool at my home then i for one will always want an Adult rated Linden Home.  It is not an imposition as a customer to state what i want as a product feature.  Nor will i find myself going into threads batting down ideas of what other features people want simply because they don't suite my own preferences.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Evangeline Ling

[PrudenceAnton]

I've glanced to this topic on and off. Having role played on Medieval-Fantasy and Post Apocalyptic role play regions, many where set to Adult, due to the subject matter and adult rated furnishings.  It was not solely about having slex either. Sometimes the topic in role play was aggressive, violent, hostile, obscene language that fell under what is consider 'adult subject matter'.  I honestly see nothing wrong with premium members wanting to have Adult rated premium home regions.  In my own experience, yes, there will be strong sexual content, that happens even in Moderate rated regions, but this also opens the channels for adult content in general, non-sexual and sexual, and protects those residing there from offending or breaking convent and allowing them to feel comfortable in their homes without the worry of someone being offended and filing an AR against them, for their own preference of life style they chose in Second Life.

Although I'm comfortable in my moderate rated premium home, I often have to put in security scripts in my Adult rated furniture, just in case, which I would not have to worry about this if I was residing in an Adult rated region. The end questions come down to, 'yes there is a large enough population in Second Life to desire such a continent of premium homes and fill them up, but is it profitable, beneficial to Linden Labs to do this for said audience'?  Best of luck to those seeking LL's attention to this subject, they've seen requests before and fulfilled them, perhaps this too, will come to pass.

[Abnor Mole]

The problem with black/white clearly specific definitions is they can never be clear or specific enough. If the rule is nudity is allowed but being a state of arousal is not, that will only lead to questions of just how much angle to the dangle constitutes an aroused state. Once you go down that rabbit hole it never really ends. Certain vagaries leaving some things open to interpretation to a degree causes people to err on the side of caution rather than looking for a loophole.

[Evangeline Ling]

13 minutes ago, Abnor Mole said:

The problem with black/white clearly specific definitions is they can never be clear or specific enough. If the rule is nudity is allowed but being a state of arousal is not, that will only lead to questions of just how much angle to the dangle constitutes an aroused state. Once you go down that rabbit hole it never really ends. Certain vagaries leaving some things open to interpretation to a degree causes people to err on the side of caution rather than looking for a loophole.

Ok then how about a CLEAR definition on unchecking the box that allows avatars to see in...

 

Question:  If I have an outdoor adult rated pool on Moderate Bellisseria and I uncheck the box on the about land page and now NOBODY can see avies unless they literally invade my space and walk onto my property.  Am I "BEHIND CLOSED DOORS"  or am I not "BEHIND CLOSED DOORS"?

I would like a specific answer to this specific scenario

[Abnor Mole]

The question everyone should probably be asking themselves really is "What would an adult Linden Homes area probably look like? And would I want to live there?" It's an enticing prospect when you think about the things you could do. It is another when you think about what those around you could (or probably would) do. Remember that Linden Homes are a neighborhood community with many people in close proximity. "You do you and I do me" doesn't always work in an environment like that. Thinking about your neighbors is written into the covenant. In an adult environment where the general idea is "anything goes", are people likely to hold to that concept or are they more likely simply pepper the outsides of their yards with BDSM furniture, animesh figures engaging in activities and other graphic displays of an adult nature simply because they feel they can now and neighbors be damned? Would it really look like Bellisseria or would it look like a red light district? Be careful what you wish for. People are always gonna people. 

[Abnor Mole]

9 minutes ago, Evangeline Ling said:

Ok then how about a CLEAR definition on unchecking the box that allows avatars to see in...

 

Question:  If I have an outdoor adult rated pool on Moderate Bellisseria and I uncheck the box on the about land page and now NOBODY can see avies unless they literally invade my space and walk onto my property.  Am I "BEHIND CLOSED DOORS"  or am I not "BEHIND CLOSED DOORS"?

I would like a specific answer to this specific scenario

I cannot give you one. I'm not in Governance.

[Evangeline Ling]

1 minute ago, Abnor Mole said:

I cannot give you one. I'm not in Governance.

ok can @Governance16 Lindenor any of the other numbers answer that question?

[PrudenceAnton]

5 minutes ago, Abnor Mole said:

The question everyone should probably be asking themselves really is "What would an adult Linden Homes area probably look like? And would I want to live there?" It's an enticing prospect when you think about the things you could do. It is another when you think about what those around you could (or probably would) do. Remember that Linden Homes are a neighborhood community with many people in close proximity. "You do you and I do me" doesn't always work in an environment like that. Thinking about your neighbors is written into the covenant. In an adult environment where the general idea is "anything goes", are people likely to hold to that concept or are they more likely simply pepper the outsides of their yards with BDSM furniture, animesh figures engaging in activities and other graphic displays of an adult nature simply because they feel they can now and neighbors be damned? Would it really look like Bellisseria or would it look like a red light district? Be careful what you wish for. People are always gonna people. 

What if the convent stated that pornographic nature items must be kept inside the home, but adult rated furniture is allowed as long is it isn't sexual looking in nature or BDSM in style? To keep the neighborhoods looking clearly home friendly and nice to the visual appetite, avoiding a red light district appearance?  In case grandpa and grandma stopped by for a visit.