Future 'Feature' Request: Linden Shops (Commercial Addition to Linden Home Continent/Regions)

[Syo Emerald]

1 hour ago, Alwin Alcott said:

so shoot another fully armed canon at private landlords? ... also shopping in control by LL?...

How would that bring "shopping in control by LL"?  You aren't forced on where you have your shop (if you have any inworld store at all). Is having a store on mainland also "shopping in control of LL"? And if you think thats the case, hows that worse than "shopping in control of whatever glorified middle man plays landlord"?

[Teresa Firelight]

Speaking as a creator/store owner, I think I would strongly prefer to keep shopping out of Bellisseria.  (The only possible exception might be to allow people who make addons to BelliHomes be allowed to put a small tastefully done sign that is link to a marketplace page when they have the addon rezzed on one of their belli homes.)

I take great pride in having an attractive/inviting store -- but I find that probably at least 75% of the SL stores I have been in are just a jumbo of vendors that are not laid out attractively... and they are not pleasant surroundings. I really would hate to see that in Belli! Let's keep our communities and surrounding areas as beautiful and comercial free as they currently are.

[davidventer]

On 11/27/2021 at 3:13 AM, Nika Talaj said:

You are proposing that there simply be commercial LH parcels, where a shop owner must use a commercial mole build, but otherwise run their store just like they might on mainland?  Use whatever vendors they want, oblige LL support to endlessly monitor the commercial signage to be sure it's not too blatant, sell merchandise that is completely unrelated to the theme of the region the store is in?  Perhaps you're envisioning that really cool little stores, like art galleries and Hextraordinary, would populate LH commercial parcels? 

Yes, and what makes that any different from how Linden Homes are run? They too have a covenant in place with rules and restrictions and residents need to stay “in theme” when decorating their homes. The same should apply to Linden Shops. Linden homes seems to work well and people are mostly abiding by the rules. Why wouldn’t this work for commercial spaces? What’s the difference really? Other than being able to sell things, run public events, and being able to display the land in search and run classifieds from it?
 

The covenant could include a list of categories that aren’t allowed and when it comes to the placement of things, rather than a mailbox there could be a scripted store sign that you can load your store/cafe/bar/gallery/rp-restaurant /decor-shop/boutique etc. logo onto and you’re only allowed to place things inside the store; structure the parcel in such a way that it’s only possible to rez inside the building where parcel lines end by the shop’s front door and the only thing you can place outside is your logo on the scripted store sign. That’ll prevent any potential “eyesore” situations if shop owners ever happen to break covenant and category rules.
 

It wouldn’t even need much policing, as with Linden Homes; if someone sees something that shouldn’t be there, it can be reported, just like with Linden Homes. 

[davidventer]

14 hours ago, Chris Nova said:

Malls are dead. Have been dead for a long time. Shopping events took over. It would be a pretty stupid decision, even for LL, to go for this idea. Its a waste of mole resources and time. Just because you love living a "realistic" life, doesn't mean its a great idea and should be implemented. 

Suck it up and teleport like the rest of us.

It doesn’t have to be a mall, that was but an idea of a structure build. It can be individual shops with premade shop/office building options like we have premade home options on our linden home parcels. 

[Freddie Venus]

I think the compromise for this is maybe have a weekly or monthly market type thing at the fairgrounds. With vendors etc. I can't see a lot of the big creators wanting a 1024m parcel with limited capacity, they might be tempted by a market type stall weekly/monthly maybe. I don't know it's just an idea that came into my head.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Madonna666
Typing skills failure.

[davidventer]

4 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

so shoot another fully armed canon at private landlords? ... also shopping in control by LL?...

There would be rules of what is allowed and what isn’t. The LI and space would be limited as with Linden Homes. For bigger stores and a different set of rules, people would still rent land from land barons if they need more space and/or less restrictions. This doesn’t shoot anyone in the foot. It would be but another option to have for getting started in commerce or for quality established brands to apply for themed spaces to sell their goods in the region. 
 

There are so many possible ways to structure and run this that it can be made not to negatively impact existing land lords nor create eyesores in beautiful home regions. 

[Kathlen Onyx]

Why would you need this? Why not just TP to the store they already have? I mean, it's not like we are charged per TP or distance traveled. I see this as a big fail. We already have 1000's of events when merchants join and sell things and then they have their own store and MP.  It's unnecessary in Bellisseria. Heck, I don't even go to shops that are on ALL the lands where clubs are. Why would I go specifically here?

[Kathlen Onyx]

2 hours ago, Teresa Firelight said:

Speaking as a creator/store owner, I think I would strongly prefer to keep shopping out of Bellisseria.  (The only possible exception might be to allow people who make addons to BelliHomes be allowed to put a small tastefully done sign that is link to a marketplace page when they have the addon rezzed on one of their belli homes.)

I take great pride in having an attractive/inviting store -- but I find that probably at least 75% of the SL stores I have been in are just a jumbo of vendors that are not laid out attractively... and they are not pleasant surroundings. I really would hate to see that in Belli! Let's keep our communities and surrounding areas as beautiful and comercial free as they currently are.

Now this would be a good idea and one I could support. Sellers that sell addons FOR your home. It would be cool to see them on the different homes before buying.. 

[davidventer]

21 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Now this would be a good idea and one I could support. Sellers that sell addons FOR your home. It would be cool to see them on the different homes before buying.. 

Yes, this could be one of the rules of Linden Shops. To sell things related to the Linden Homes region they are in. Or to allow for other non-eyesore things like little RP Cafes or Art Galleries, etc. (Personally; I would love to have a little Cafe/bar type place where I can do some live DJ'ing while serving up Xeolife RP drinks and food, which isn't exactly related to Linden Homes decor but can still be made to look tasteful and in-theme with the surrounding area - and it would be really cool to have Linden Home Addon/decor stores as 'store neighbors').

There are so many ways that this can be done to make it look pretty and 'in-theme' and provide realistic little commercial zones in-between residential neighborhoods. The Lindens could even set it so that the shops aren't automatically assigned when claiming them, like with Linden Homes, but instead, maybe part of the setup/application process would be to include a link to a marketplace store of the things you do plan to put in your Linden Store, and/or a tick-list of activities you plan to do on the parcel (like run a cafe with live music, or art gallery for example) so that the lindens can review/approve what you do/sell before allocating/activating your Linden Shop parcel - Or something like that.

Edited November 29, 2021 by davidventer

[Patch Linden]

I think I've said somewhere in history that the original plan for Victorian was to have a commercial variant of the homes.  Much like you find in RL, where many of a particular style of Victorian homes that lend themselves to having 1st floor stores or shops and the living quarters on the 2nd or 3rd floors.  These homes would have been in their own zoning area that would have permitted that sort of activity and would be governed by a modified covenant.   Milbank was conceived originally as a community fair type region with communal use spaces that could have allowed for pop-up sales events, etc.

In general, I've been keeping the team focused on getting houses and community centers to everyone and not diverting our attention to some of the other features like commercial areas, but we do have a lot of thought and plans invested in doing something with it eventually.

[davidventer]

2 hours ago, Patch Linden said:

we do have a lot of thought and plans invested in doing something with it eventually

Exactly what I wanted to hear! This isn't something I expect to happen right away with the current focus being on Homes, hence the 'Future' mention in the OP title but this is great news, I'm glad it's being considered. Great things in store for the future of Second Life. Thank you!

Edited November 30, 2021 by davidventer

[Sean Heavy]

1 hour ago, Patch Linden said:

I think I've said somewhere in history that the original plan for Victorian was to have a commercial variant of the homes.  Much like you find in RL, where many of a particular style of Victorian homes that lend themselves to having 1st floor stores or shops and the living quarters on the 2nd or 3rd floors.  These homes would have been in their own zoning area that would have permitted that sort of activity and would be governed by a modified covenant.

I'd love this. I don't have a Linden Home now, but I would be first in line to get a commercial variant of a Victorian Linden Home! (Or any other style for that matter.)

Thanks @Patch Linden

[Sparkle Bunny]

5 hours ago, davidventer said:

(Personally; I would love to have a little Cafe/bar type place where I can do some live DJ'ing while serving up Xeolife RP drinks and food)

People do have cafes and art galleries in their Linden Homes, you know. They just have to forego the tip jars. And Mainland is full of galleries and little cafe/bar type places with empty tip jars, so it's not like they're losing out on a fortune here. True, hosting an event in a Linden Home is not a great idea because your neighbours may wish to hang out in their living room without getting lagged to death, which is why we have community spaces; but much the same applies to a hypothetical Linden shop. Even if it does let you put out a tip jar,  your neighbours will be actual shops who would ideally like their customers to be able to get into the region and buy things from them. So now we're needing commercial community spaces so all the DJ's can put out their tip jars; and I have to question why we need that when Mainland exists, and Estate land exists. I get that teleporting breaks your immersion, but you can actually sail or fly to Mainland nowadays, and finding an empty mall or cafe once you get there is probably going to be quicker than driving to a venue IRL.

(I would also be very surprised if said hypothetical Linden shops weren't an exclusive part of the equally hypothetical premium-plus package, but, whatever, when they need the extra revenue we'll find out.)

[Rabid Cheetah]

Shops make neighborhoods better.  It certainly works that way in, say, City: Skylines.

 

But this isn't a city simulator.  This is Second Life.  And Belli in particular.

The covenant prohibits commercial activity;  It's doesn't prohibit shops -- provided those shops offer their goods for free, and stay in-theme.  So we've already got LH shops.  Fun places that stay in theme, pretending to sell stuff, for a low density commercial feel without actual commercialization of Beautiful Belli.

 

 

 

[Rabid Cheetah]

[Chris Corvinus]

8 hours ago, Patch Linden said:

Much like you find in RL, where many of a particular style of Victorian homes that lend themselves to having 1st floor stores or shops and the living quarters on the 2nd or 3rd floors. 

Except RL doesn't have lag. You really want people to live above a store on a virtual platform that is well known to have heavy lag? Really, Patch? 

 

[davidventer]

4 hours ago, Sparkle Bunny said:

People do have cafes and art galleries in their Linden Homes, you know. They just have to forego the tip jars. And Mainland is full of galleries and little cafe/bar type places with empty tip jars, so it's not like they're losing out on a fortune here. True, hosting an event in a Linden Home is not a great idea because your neighbours may wish to hang out in their living room without getting lagged to death, which is why we have community spaces; but much the same applies to a hypothetical Linden shop. Even if it does let you put out a tip jar,  your neighbours will be actual shops who would ideally like their customers to be able to get into the region and buy things from them. So now we're needing commercial community spaces so all the DJ's can put out their tip jars; and I have to question why we need that when Mainland exists, and Estate land exists. I get that teleporting breaks your immersion, but you can actually sail or fly to Mainland nowadays, and finding an empty mall or cafe once you get there is probably going to be quicker than driving to a venue IRL.

(I would also be very surprised if said hypothetical Linden shops weren't an exclusive part of the equally hypothetical premium-plus package, but, whatever, when they need the extra revenue we'll find out.)

I do already have a nice little chill area in my back yard with my DJ decks out, some space for dancing, and plenty of relaxation-type furniture, and all my home contents including all furniture, food, and drink items have been scripted to be Xeolife RP Hud compatible, so I already have the kind of hangout area and vibe that I want, right at my Linden Home...

That said, this is still my private home where I like to do private things. It's not a public chill spot, and I still think it would be awesome to have dedicated public spaces for places like this in a 'commercial' setting within the same theme, on the same continent, even in the same region or neighborhood, where I am able to get in my car, drive there, or walk there, and where I'm able to sell things, show the land in search, and create events and classifieds from the land. It would also be cool to have other shops nearby that sell things related to the region theme like; Linden home add-ons or clothing related to the region theme (summer clothing stores near the beach, for example), or art, or other hangout spots and cafe's created by other residents, in a dedicated space where I know it's okay to enter, rather then seeing something cool at a Linden Home and not being sure if that particular home owner would even want random strangers on their property. And signing up for such spaces through a system that works the same as claiming a Linden Home would be really awesome and super convenient. 

 

[Rabid Cheetah]

What a great location, and decorated well!

Do you have ban lines?  A security orb?  A giant sign that says "GIT OFF MAH LAWN" ?

No?

Then you already have a public space!  Post the SLURL so folks can check it out.

[Aethelwine]

On 11/30/2021 at 6:39 AM, Chris Nova said:

Except RL doesn't have lag. You really want people to live above a store on a virtual platform that is well known to have heavy lag? Really, Patch? 

 

If you are living at ground level at all then you are contending with lag. Just because you don't want doesn't mean others won't . 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Aethelwine

[Aethelwine]

I used to love the old sailors cove, built like a little quaint fishing village with little cafes, ice cream parlours, art galleries and little shops with interesting curios. I can imagine something similar working well in Bellisseria, the community centres and places of interest give reasons to step outside your door and go out exploring a few more could make for interesting places to visit and meet people. 

[davidventer]

7 hours ago, Rabid Cheetah said:

What a great location, and decorated well!

Do you have ban lines?  A security orb?  A giant sign that says "GIT OFF MAH LAWN" ?

No?

Then you already have a public space!  Post the SLURL so folks can check it out.

Thank you! 

I meant it’s private in the sense that I walk around nude at my house and “play” there with my friends, iykwim lol. But no, no ban lines, and I am using the Linden Home Security System but it’s set to group access and if you step on the welcome mat (it says “welcome”, not get off my lawn… haha,) it’ll invite you to the group. So, strangers are able to check it out but it’s still my private property where you may encounter some things you may not necessarily want to see. For that reason, I don’t consider it a public space. 😛🙈

[Chris Corvinus]

5 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

If you are living at ground level at all then you are contending with lag. Just because you don't want doesn't mean others won't . 

Lag is literally everywhere in SL. From ground level to 5000 meters in the sky. Yes, its more down on the ground, but living above a store? The more avatars around you, the laggier it is. The more stuff that's out, the laggier it is. The more scripts are running, the laggier it is. 

So if you're living above a store, on ground level, that has customers browsing, all the scripted items for sale, other randomly scripted stuff, the probably scripted landscaping (I haven't even gotten to the person who rented out the apartment above)...dare I say that poor soul will probably be waiting 5 mins for their sofa to rez much less everything else they want to decor with (much of it also probably scripted). They also probably wouldn't be able to move.

But hey, there's probably a few people who would bite. More power to em. Just won't be me because I'm not that stupid and I don't even have a potato pc. 

And isn't Bellarissa already a lagfest? Why not add more to that mess 😂

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Chris Nova said:

Lag is literally everywhere in SL. From ground level to 5000 meters in the sky. Yes, its more down on the ground, but living above a store? The more avatars around you, the laggier it is. The more stuff that's out, the laggier it is. The more scripts are running, the laggier it is. 

So if you're living above a store, on ground level, that has customers browsing, all the scripted items for sale, other randomly scripted stuff, the probably scripted landscaping (I haven't even gotten to the person who rented out the apartment above)...dare I say that poor soul will probably be waiting 5 mins for their sofa to rez much less everything else they want to decor with (much of it also probably scripted). They also probably wouldn't be able to move.

But hey, there's probably a few people who would bite. More power to em. Just won't be me because I'm not that stupid and I don't even have a potato pc. 

And isn't Bellarissa already a lagfest? Why not add more to that mess 😂

In a few years after Meta bought everything, all mainland will get dumped and mr Suikerberg will only keep Bellisera, chop the legs of and harvest all other infor about the users, and if not carefull even the organs in rl... why get mad now...let go 

[davidventer]

2 hours ago, Chris Nova said:

but living above a store?

Y’all getting mad over something the Lindens already decided NOT to do. It was considered for the Victorian style homes but they didn’t do it, did they? Calm down lol. I wouldn’t want to live above a store either but having stores nearby and in theme would be awesome and would feel way more realistic, like a real neighborhood. 

[Aethelwine]

I don't live at my houseboat, if I did it would be in a skybox away from all the neighbours texture and object lag. My houseboat is set up as a cafe. I have other parcels on Bellisseria and elsewhere set up as art galleries, cafes.. Little interesting places to visit. There are plenty of others that do similar, some listed in the landmark list. 

If or when patch returns to the "commercial" theme I know I would seriously consider getting one to set up as a gallery\cafe. I might even spare some prims for my alt to have their skybox.