New Search page how to change it back?

[Extrude Ragu]

What I suppose bothers me the most about all this is that clearly this is something LL has sunk time into, and it hasn't really in any meaningful way improved SecondLife, it's not a pleasing interface to look at, it functions the same if not worse because it penalizes curious users who just want to explore and don't know what they want to search for.

You know, I think what LL is lacking more than anything is leadership - Who is making these decisions and setting the priorities for employees? At the moment it feels like nobody, or perhaps a "yes man" who does not actually have a game plan. The leaders at LL need to be thinking about actual shortcomings of SecondLife that users encounter, rather than 'fixing' things that really aren't all that broken.

I feel like this pointless and slightly hard to look at UI change is symptomatic of a bigger issue.

[QwiQ]

Ok, I've only looked at the web search and I have to admit that from a general design and usability aspect it's an absolute shocker (UK vernacular for very bad 🙂) I won't detail everything wrong, just because the list would be lengthy.

If the LL Web team thought this was good... well not really sure what to say about that.

All I can think, and I've said this on another thread, is there is more going on behind the scenes here in terms of platform and positioning. We're talking revolution rather than evolution here, it's generally not the case that mammals revert to fish 🙂

Each individual announcement or initiative, taken separately, may be seen as pretty innocuous and with very small scope.

If you look at them as a whole, then they start to paint a picture (hopefully) of a more coherent pivot and significant change in direction coming relatively soon.

Put it this way, these are either interim measures, executed quite poorly in some cases by their "B" team ( because the "A" team have more important stuff to do), and which signal the onramp to something much much bigger - or SL is in a bit of trouble.

I don't mean to be a harbinger of doom, it may be all very good for everybody - including the existing user base, or it'll just be what's perceived as good for the future of the business. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive, but they definitely can be.

Edited November 23, 2021 by QwiQ

[Nick0678]

The interesting part is that "After 18 years of experience this is the Best they could do..."

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Nick0678

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, Extrude Ragu said:

The UI is not even responsive. The spinner at the bottom does not shrink when the page is shrunk, so you can't use it in a smaller window

Come on LL, I could have put together something better than this on my laptop in my bedroom, drunk.

https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer/src/master/

[Extrude Ragu]

33 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer/src/master/

Challenging me I see

Correct me if I am wrong but I think only the viewer source code is open source, not the web services.

[Phil Deakins]

10 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Most veterans know it is irrelevant/useless, but many if not most businesses are aware that the newer/newest users are not aware of this and structure their landing points and parcel layouts to achieve the highest results.

Also, many, if not most, businesses know that traffic makes a huge difference because it is the only ranking factor in the legacy search, and the most widely used viewer uses the legacy search as its default.

 

General comment

Regardless of what is good or bad about any search engine, it is up to those who want high rankings in them to take steps to achieve them. That's always been true with any search engine, and it is equally true with the SL one.

Search engines, including the SL ones, have never been 'fair' systems. E.g. a place won't be placed higher in the results just because it's bigger, has better quality stuff at lower prices, and gives excellent customer service. As far as a search engine is concerned, such places are on a totally equal footing with the grotty little store that sells lousy stuff at exorbitant prices, and ignores customers completely. Maybe LL has incorporated land area into the factors, though.

It's no good a person simply paying the 30L/wk and expecting the place to be placed in the results where s/he thinks it should be. Search engines don't work like that. They never have. Being in an SL business means being in a world that includes a search engine. Those who put the time and effort into finding out what will improve their rankings are those who will achieve them.

The reason I wrote that is because it is entirely up to each person, who wants a place to rank higher in the results, to put the time and effort in into finding out how to do it - and do it. Moaning about things doesn't work.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Phil Deakins

[Phil Deakins]

4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Hahaha Alchemy actually does have one tab which you can click and get the "new and improved SL Viewer search". The call that tab "AltaVista". LOL. 

Nope. Alchemy does have a tab called Alta Vista, but I've never been able to get it to produce a search box - or anything. It doesn't do anything.

[Phil Deakins]

3 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

We could not do fetching and parsing with the previous web search, this is why TPVs rushed to port forward the legacy search interfaces forcing LL to keep it alive.

I often wondered how you were getting the legacy listings.

[Inara Pey]

11 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Maturity cannot be changed post-search. You have to go back, change it, then search again.

 

Not entirely correct.  Maturity filters are located on the left side of most search results (I cannot say "all", as have not checked everything, but I assume it would be reasonably consistent!). Altering them via said drop-down will cause an automatic refresh of results to reflect selected maturity level(s). 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Inara Pey
gif weirdly truncated after original upload.

[Phil Deakins]

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

No, not at all. Everybody knows by now about "fetching" and "parsing" and that's irrelevant here, totally.

Because there isn't the political will to do that fetching and make it usable. If there was, it would have been done a year ago, six months ago, or hey, even NOW.

I think you misunderstood what Coffee said. She was saying that TPVs can now fetch the html results, parse and sort them in different ways, and then display them. At the moment, search offers 5 ways to sort the results (relevance, traffic low to high and vice versa, and alphabetically both ways). She is saying that, with the new search, TPV's can offer more choices. Apparently, they couldn't do that with the previous search. I don't know why but that's what she says.

[Prokofy Neva]

56 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I think you misunderstood what Coffee said. She was saying that TPVs can now fetch the html results, parse and sort them in different ways, and then display them. At the moment, search offers 5 ways to sort the results (relevance, traffic low to high and vice versa, and alphabetically both ways). She is saying that, with the new search, TPV's can offer more choices. Apparently, they couldn't do that with the previous search. I don't know why but that's what she says.

I got what she said, It's not rocket science, despite the constant effort of geeks to mythologize it and complexify it. It does not matter. The relevance, etc. is truly irrelevant because of the way the results, regardless where they are fetched from, are displayed.

Your continued insistence on justifying the venality and even criminality of search manipulation never ceases to amaze.

@Extrude Ragu  That's an interesting theory. For one, they were without leadership, no? Oz Linden who was VP of Engineering left in February, and all this time there hasn't been an engineer until like just last month, no? Although I'm not sure that every work of code has to be cleared by him. I should think something like the search interface would be.

None of you can adequately explain why they wish to have so much space like a modern art show, and why they can't bring themselves to put more returns on the page. That is the single most important thing to actual users who don't want to scroll and turn pages. What is their crippling ideology on this?

[Rowan Amore]

2 hours ago, Inara Pey said:

Not entirely correct.  Maturity filters are located on the left side of most search results (I cannot say "all", as have not checked everything, but I assume it would be reasonably consistent!). Altering them via said drop-down will cause an automatic refresh of results to reflect selected maturity level(s). 

 

The only thing I noticed wasn't an option on the Land search.

ETA:  Logging in on my computer, it does show maturity level for rentals can be changed also.  It didn't do so on my Kindle.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[Prokofy Neva]

2 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Nope. Alchemy does have a tab called Alta Vista, but I've never been able to get it to produce a search box - or anything. It doesn't do anything.

Nope, you're wrong. Go and click on "Alta Vista" on Alchemy.  It is now the crazy new art show.

Like others here, you would benefit from occasionally logging into Second Life on the SL viewer and on other viewers besides Firestorm.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

2 hours ago, Inara Pey said:

Not entirely correct.  Maturity filters are located on the left side of most search results (I cannot say "all", as have not checked everything, but I assume it would be reasonably consistent!). Altering them via said drop-down will cause an automatic refresh of results to reflect selected maturity level(s). 

 

Inara, do the right thing. You have the eyes and ears of the Lindens always on you, and many top influencers. You are capable of sometimes criticizing their works, yes, I've seen you do it.

Say the obvious truths that need to be said about this modern art show that does not serve the world.

Whether or not maturity ratings work or don't work is not the main issue. You know in your heart that the huge amount of space, the few returns, forcing people to scroll, and more -- these are all wrong. 

For once, call it.

[Silent Mistwalker]

8 hours ago, ChinRey said:

Scrollbar there:

But your point is still very valid of course. People don't like to scroll and besides, the color contrasts are so weak it's easy to miss the scroll bar completely.

 

How many decades has the scroll bar on Windows been in that same place? On popups as well? 

When I see a list, one of the first things I do is locate the scroll bar so I can use it when ready.

People don't really look or listen. They'd rather scream and complain instead. Something I will never understand but I suppose it's because some people thrive on the stress.

 

[Teagan Tobias]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

None of you can adequately explain why they wish to have so much space like a modern art show, and why they can't bring themselves to put more returns on the page. That is the single most important thing to actual users who don't want to scroll and turn pages. What is their crippling ideology on this?

 

THIS, this, this, 1000% this, just why?

[Silent Mistwalker]

4 minutes ago, Teagan Tobias said:

 

THIS, this, this, 1000% this, just why?

 

The main reason for doing it is to target a younger demographic and make it more appealing to them. Another word for it is marketing.

[Bonnie Bowenford]

All the technical arguments aside, simply from the standpoint of usability, this is just unequivocally a complete train wreck.  Unresponsive and slow ... I mean so slow!  Just scrolling down to get to different filter options is ponderously lagged.  No easy way to just get to a listing of events of a specific type, by time, without jumping through hoops.  Want to get to a list of live music events for the day, by time, and scroll through them?  Nope, that's no longer a couple clicks and a drop down.  This used to take seconds.  I've timed it multiple times now using the new search.  My best time is 52 seconds.  Visually cluttered results are a complete mess.   I could go on and on, but why bother.  I don't know, it's so confusing how anyone could have looked at this and said, "Yup, boys and girls, good work, we're done with this project, let's launch it!"

[Chris Corvinus]

Who's saying its responsive?

This is from my galaxy note 20 ultra.

I didn't know slideshows were still a thing...

[Teagan Tobias]

16 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

The main reason for doing it is to target a younger demographic and make it more appealing to them. Another word for it is marketing.

 

My first thought was, why, are the kids half blind and unable to read a single line?

But here is a question, why not put both in the Tool Bar Tool Box and make everyone happy?

Because that is what will make new people stay in Second Life.

 

And by the way, when the tool bar tool box was introduced I was excited, I thought it would expand to pages and pages in no time at all, but now extremely sad at how little its used. LL could give everyone everything they desire and more. I don’t even care if I had to restart the viewer for things.

 

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Nope, you're wrong. Go and click on "Alta Vista" on Alchemy.  It is now the crazy new art show.

Like others here, you would benefit from occasionally logging into Second Life on the SL viewer and on other viewers besides Firestorm.

You are superb at jumping to wrong conclusions, aren't you   I am logged into SL most of every day - with the Alchemy viewer - and I've never been able to get the Alta Vista tab to do anything. It shows nothing. Not even a search box.

I did say that I have never been able to get it to do anything. Judging by your post, it seems like it works for others.

As for other viewers, I log into them to check things before I post. And I only ever used Firestorm for a day or two once.

So many wrong conclusions jumped to

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Phil Deakins

[Silent Mistwalker]

39 minutes ago, Teagan Tobias said:

 

My first thought was, why, are the kids half blind and unable to read a single line?

But here is a question, why not put both in the Tool Bar Tool Box and make everyone happy?

Because that is what will make new people stay in Second Life.

 

And by the way, when the tool bar tool box was introduced I was excited, I thought it would expand to pages and pages in no time at all, but now extremely sad at how little its used. LL could give everyone everything they desire and more. I don’t even care if I had to restart the viewer for things.

 

 

I'm no kid and I find it easier to read. I'm glad they chose the blue instead the green or yellow that blinds me like so many sites have gone to that I no longer can even look at because Astigmatism. Something that is very common. Mine started out mild. Decades later I need reading glasses and another pair to regain the long-distance vision I once had. 

https://www.nei.nih.gov/learn-about-eye-health/eye-conditions-and-diseases/astigmatism

It won't make everyone happy. There is no way to make everyone happy. 

The only thing that will make people stay in SL is a desire to stay.

[Phil Deakins]

I have to agree with those who say that too much space is wasted in the results pages. It's poor design from a usability point of view. Why anyone would think it's a good idea to show only 5½ results on-screen (not on the page as someone insists) when the search floater is at maximum size, is beyond me. It's nowhere near as bad as the idiotic design of a national table tennis website here in England, where a third to a half of the front screen is given over to a heading that consists of 2 or 3 words.

I won't go so far as to say the design is actually bad, because I've seen so much worse in terms of wasted space, but it is very poor, bordering on bad.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Phil Deakins

[ChinRey]

7 hours ago, Extrude Ragu said:

You know, I think what LL is lacking more than anything is leadership

And UI designers.

[ChinRey]

1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

I won't go so far as to say the design is actually bad, because I've seen so much worse in terms of wasted space, but it is very poor, bordering on bad.

I don't know. LL obviously has put some thought into this. That alone is an improvement compared to so many other changes they've made to the UI over the last decade or so. I know this may sound like sarcasm but it isn't.