Lucia Nightfire Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said: Traffic is shown, which in my case is irrelevant and not what people look for. Most veterans know it is irrelevant/useless, but many if not most businesses are aware that the newer/newest users are not aware of this and structure their landing points and parcel layouts to achieve the highest results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucia Nightfire Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 46 minutes ago, Chris Nova said: We all know SL search sucks. Thats why we have Firestorm. It is a shame that legacy search's prevalence/significance is shunned in the Web meetings whenever adopting/improving it is brought up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Just now, Lucia Nightfire said: It is a shame that legacy search's prevalence/significance is shunned in the Web meetings whenever adopting/improving it is brought up. It's not considered part of the current product stack, the interfaces have been left enabled as a kindness to TPVs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucia Nightfire Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: It's not considered part of the current product stack, the interfaces have been left enabled as a kindness to TPVs. And I pray that doesn't get interrupted/broken with any of the coming changes to search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 One the website at least, you can change maturity level after search on the page that comes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 People don't use Firestorm exclusive for their search function. That's just silly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 37 minutes ago, Teagan Tobias said: Oh, okay, so what you like and I don’t like are not even the same thing. Well, I use Firestorm and never use web search when I'm inworld. When I'm not inworld, I obviously have to use their website. Is it different on a computer as opposed to my Kindle? It does rank in for traffic in the pull down menu on the right after you search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokofy Neva Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: Searching for "RavenGlass" with GMA, returns 167 results. The first 7 pages being exclusively your properties. You have to get to page 8 before some others start to creep in .. for obvious reasons. Search is functioning as expected. That's how it should look. That's how it was in 1.23. That's how it is now in Firestorm. And before it broke a year ago, it wasn't as good as that, but it was surely better, than the facelift. Why don't you try looking up "Coffee"? Edited November 23, 2021 by Prokofy Neva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokofy Neva Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 39 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said: It is a shame that legacy search's prevalence/significance is shunned in the Web meetings whenever adopting/improving it is brought up. Can you explain the zealotry around this issue? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said: That's how it should look. That's how it was in 1.23. That's how it is now in Firestorm. And before it broke a year ago, it wasn't as good as that, but it was surely better, than the facelift. A new search site does raise the potential of the viewer being able to query and format the results with in viewer UI, something we have asked for and should bring up at web meetings. It was impractical to do this for the old web search due to an almost impenetrable construction that seemed deliberately designed to make any such TPV efforts pointless (back during the "firestorm is why we cant have nice things" era, lets make it all a website). The new search results html does seem very sane, should be very possible to scrape, parse and then present. 9 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said: Why don't you try looking up "Coffee"? Coffee is a generic term, I would not expect to find myself near the top of any search. I am rightly buried by all the coffee shops (etc) and people with just the word "Coffee" as their display name. However, searching for "Coffee Pancake" I am right at the top of the list. 13 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said: Can you explain the zealotry around this issue? Why? It's not zealotry. it's a service that has been kept running for legacy and compatibility reasons. You might as well be asking why linden hair layers aren't getting love, something every single one of us still uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinRey Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said: Yeah, it's so "clean and modern" that it shows virtually nothing -- but that's the plan, eh? It's called Flat Design and it makes perfect sense for LL to introduce it now, just as everybody else are abandoning the concept. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokofy Neva Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, ChinRey said: It's called Flat Design and it makes perfect sense for LL to introduce it now, just as everybody else are abandoning the concept. Can you explain why the Lindens think it is "progress" to have 7 returns per page and not 26? Do they understand that in their laggy world, pushing past one or two pages becomes literally impossible sometimes? Whom do the Lindens think benefits from this outrageous interface, which only inspires people to say "How do I put it back the way it was?" Do they think search is not an actual thing needed, by consumers and merchants both? Are they just rewarding their friends who show up in the top 4-7 slots and punishing others and hoping they go away? Do they think "newbies" benefit from this because it's in large typefact with lots of space like a large print book for either a kindergartner or a senior citizen? Do they merely want a Malevich type artwork of squares that looks good on the first page, and really don't care what it's function is? I mean, they could just put a picture of a flower then. And then there's this: they claim this is merely tweaking an interface and making it easier or cleaner or prettier. But surely they can grasp that "cleaner" would mean taking the previous interface which also overdid it with space and too many lines per entry, and switching it just to one line? After all, you can click to expand it? And the political decisions made under color of merely making a clean interface -- traffic utterly removed -- not the traffic that puts a listing up top, but the traffic information for that individual parcel, that users might want to see if they are looking for "mall rentals" or "clubs" or something. I always tell tenants, "Traffic doesn't make sales; sales make sales" and to focus on quality products, key words, and word of mouth. Let's say I wanted to find a gatcha resale mall. Then I'd like to see the traffic for each venue. Most ludicrous as I mentioned before is the removal of "rentals" as a category in "places" although "rentals" is one of the categories on the about land menu. I believe that actually wasn't there before, either, but didn't stand out as much as a problem because at least (before it was broken last year), you got a list to work with. I'm sorry to see that Kool Viewer, which I use for respite from the SL viewer, has simply incorporated LL's new search interface. I'll have to look at Alchemy. 2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said: A new search site does raise the potential of the viewer being able to query and format the results with in viewer UI, something we have asked for and should bring up at web meetings. It was impractical to do this for the old web search due to an almost impenetrable construction that seemed deliberately designed to make any such TPV efforts pointless (back during the "firestorm is why we cant have nice things" era, lets make it all a website). The new search results html does seem very sane, should be very possible to scrape, parse and then present. Coffee is a generic term, I would not expect to find myself near the top of any search. I am rightly buried by all the coffee shops (etc) and people with just the word "Coffee" as their display name. However, searching for "Coffee Pancake" I am right at the top of the list. It's not zealotry. it's a service that has been kept running for legacy and compatibility reasons. You might as well be asking why linden hair layers aren't getting love, something every single one of us still uses. There is nothing "sane" about a search interface that has so much dead space around the returns that it might as well be the Gobi Desert. I didn't ask you about "why the zealotry" because you don't see that it *is* zealotry and I expect even those who go to these meetings and might be more rational don't even understand but let's see if Luca will answer. Edited November 23, 2021 by Prokofy Neva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinRey Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said: Can you explain why the Lindens think it is "progress" to have 7 returns per page and not 26? 7? I get 20 results on each page when I search and I don't think it should be more than that. As it is now it's actually a bit too much since you have to scroll a lot to see them all but that's because the interface is wasting so much space, not because the list is too long. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokofy Neva Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, ChinRey said: 7? I get 20 results on each page when I search and I don't think it should be more than that. As it is now it's actually a bit too much since you have to scroll a lot to see them all but that's because the interface is wasting so much space, not because the list is too long. There are 5-7 on the new interface on the new SL viewer. And yes it's because too much space is wasted and more than one line per entry is shown. Here's only 5 for "men's clothing". And yes, I've stretched the viewer out by pulling on the corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokofy Neva Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 5-6 only really. Notice I cannot pull down the categories because that will only make it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinRey Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said: There are 5-7 on the new interface on the new SL viewer. And yes it's because too much space is wasted and more than one line per entry is shown. Here's only 5 for "men's clothing". And yes, I've stretched the viewer out by pulling on the corners. Scrollbar there: But your point is still very valid of course. People don't like to scroll and besides, the color contrasts are so weak it's easy to miss the scroll bar completely. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokofy Neva Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Just now, ChinRey said: Scrollbar there: But your point is still very valid of course. People don't like to scroll and besides, the color contrasts are so weak it's easy to miss the scroll bar completely. Of course, Rey, I know how to scroll. But I'm sorry, but scroll bar be damned. It's not just that "they don't like it" or "colour contrasts are so weak," which is unconscionable and unnecessary when making something new, it's that it's unnecessary, when other viewers put 100 per page without any scrolling. And when scrolling is hard due to lag. Scrolling out of "only 7 returns" isn't the solution -- there should be no scrolling and 100 clean returns per page. Look at Alchemy Viewer. Thank God they haven't changed anything. 100 returns on the first page! No scroll bar! Scroll bars don't solve the problem; scrolling is also a laggy enterprise. Neat, simple returns, one line, with traffic, click and teleport. And for extra credit, Alchemy also doesn't have that idiocy the Lindens recently introduced with landmarks, which became utterly messed up. When you go to a site, and click the top to get a landmark, it goes right into your landmarks folder where it belongs. It doesn't go into "My Favourites" which is just a broken, broken concept and implementation. Not every lot you go to and save a landmark at is "your favourite". "Favourite" should come after you've got a bunch of landmarks and then decide to save out some as "favourites". Or you are at a place you really love and you instantly fave it. Again, Concierge Lindens grasp this, admit it, likely because, you know, they come inworld and search for land a lot. Web Lindens seem oblivious to USAGE. To make ALL landmarks go into "My Favourites" is just sheer cruelty because you then have to go up to the top of the screen, where they are splayed out horizontally, and put them back into the landmarks folder -- and accidentally clicking on them sometimes and going somewhere you don't want to go to. I guess I will have to use Alchemy, which I like. I'd rather stay with the SL viewer simply because I'm used to editing. The one thing I don't like on Alchemy is the way it shows the zillion vertices of mesh when you go into edit mode, even with only "highlight selection". Probably some key has to be hit somewhere and it's just a nuisance to find it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokofy Neva Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Hahaha Alchemy actually does have one tab which you can click and get the "new and improved SL Viewer search". The call that tab "AltaVista". LOL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said: There is nothing "sane" about a search interface that has so much dead space around the returns that it might as well be the Gobi Desert. I didn't ask you about "why the zealotry" because you don't see that it *is* zealotry and I expect even those who go to these meetings and might be more rational don't even understand but let's see if Luca will answer. Completely missed the point of what I was saying. The HTML code behind the page is sane. This means it can be fetched and parsed by code. Which means we can take a query, fetch as many pages as we like, and then organize & present that in the viewer any way we like. You want an old style list view for search results? This new search is how we get the data to make that (something that was not possible with the previous web search). This is better than we could have hoped for, I'm sorry the search doesn't only return your rental parcels or behave exactly how you want it to, but realistically, that was never on the table. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 The buttons are different sizes... the fonts... urgh... This one opens upwards... This one opens downwards... AAAAAA 😡 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 The width of the page changes depending on which tab you're on.... You can't just enter an empty search and get some immediate results back.... The places wheel at the bottom of the page spins the wrong way when you click the arrows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokofy Neva Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: Completely missed the point of what I was saying. The HTML code behind the page is sane. This means it can be fetched and parsed by code. Which means we can take a query, fetch as many pages as we like, and then organize & present that in the viewer any way we like. You want an old style list view for search results? This new search is how we get the data to make that (something that was not possible with the previous web search). This is better than we could have hoped for, I'm sorry the search doesn't only return your rental parcels or behave exactly how you want it to, but realistically, that was never on the table. No, not at all. Everybody knows by now about "fetching" and "parsing" and that's irrelevant here, totally. Because there isn't the political will to do that fetching and make it usable. If there was, it would have been done a year ago, six months ago, or hey, even NOW. Indeed what really WAS on the table and not as theory but practice was lists of 100 in 1.23 (still in Firestorm and others), which became more clunky with Viewer 2.0 but right up until last year, functioned to return lists not of thousands but of hundreds -- clean lists on the regular SL viewer. So Lindens deliberately broke that, and to ascribe to them some notion that "oh wow, now we have a nice interface we can fetch anything we want to into it" is just plain wrong. It doesn't matter if it is "theoretically possible". The reality is they had a year in fact to make search itself work, all the while not breaking it, but instead they chose this strange diversion of place-holding and walking in place with a new interface. Search malfunction is now a key reason why people go on Firestorm. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: This one opens upwards... Only when there isn't sufficient space below. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 The UI is not even responsive. The spinner at the bottom does not shrink when the page is shrunk, so you can't use it in a smaller window Come on LL, I could have put together something better than this on my laptop in my bedroom, drunk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said: No, not at all. Everybody knows by now about "fetching" and "parsing" and that's irrelevant here, totally. Because there isn't the political will to do that fetching and make it usable. If there was, it would have been done a year ago, six months ago, or hey, even NOW. We could not do fetching and parsing with the previous web search, this is why TPVs rushed to port forward the legacy search interfaces forcing LL to keep it alive. LL don't support the legacy search interfaces in their viewer, wanted to depreciate those interfaces and are unlikely to ever go back to that, nothing "political" about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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