200 New SSPEs?

[Chloe Bunny]

With regards weddings and things being offered to people - I did not attend purely because I am not personally known to the couple - I visited later before it was all packed away and it looked truly mind blowing in terms of set-up. What an offer! Very generous of LL to offer to them. But again perhaps something that may have made more sense for the whole of the community was do something on a level playing field that encompassed all residents seeing as it was the opening of a community centre. As much as we wish this couple well - and we all do! - some of us would feel a wedding a more private affair - even with the open invite - as such I was not comfortable just turning up - it did not mean I wasn't interested in the opening or that an event was happening. 

[Evangeline Ling]

19 minutes ago, Chloe Bunny said:

With regards weddings and things being offered to people - I did not attend purely because I am not personally known to the couple - I visited later before it was all packed away and it looked truly mind blowing in terms of set-up. What an offer! Very generous of LL to offer to them. But again perhaps something that may have made more sense for the whole of the community was do something on a level playing field that encompassed all residents seeing as it was the opening of a community centre. As much as we wish this couple well - and we all do! - some of us would feel a wedding a more private affair - even with the open invite - as such I was not comfortable just turning up - it did not mean I wasn't interested in the opening or that an event was happening. 

This.... all this right here Thank you Chloe...

I was not going to say a word but now that i see this is a fairly open discussion I would like to add my agreement to what Chloe just said.  No disrespect to the couple at all, but after being treated to posts calling it "The Bellisseria Event of the Year" nevermind the fact there have been plenty of great events the entire year that were arguably far more inclusive of the whole community... I just think that the opening of a community area should be something that is for everyone.  I have no problem with weddings, rez days, anniversaries... etc... but perhaps they should all be relegated to something one reserves an area for and NOT on a release day of said region.  That way it is an even playing field...

That is of course unless the Lindens would like to announce what region release I get for my rez day and what Linden or Mole will be jumping out of a rez day cake for me...

All joking aside. I agree with Prok and Nika and Chloe on this one.  Love the idea of weddings in Bellisseria, Love the idea of community events, but perhaps this one should have been more thought out on the part of the Lindens.  I wish the couple a lovely future.  But I also wish that all Bellisserians have an equal playing field when it comes to things like this. If I was Linden Lab I simply would have released the region a week prior to the wedding and that would have fixed most of this.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Evangeline Ling

[Evangeline Ling]

deleted for duplicate

Edited November 22, 2021 by Evangeline Ling

[Evangeline Arcadia]

27 minutes ago, Chloe Bunny said:

 But again perhaps something that may have made more sense for the whole of the community was do something on a level playing field that encompassed all residents seeing as it was the opening of a community centre.

I think that is a good point, and I'm glad you mentioned it. 

I see both sides: I don't for a minute think that the wedding was somehow intended to be cliquey or for those in the know or part of a 'club'. I do think it was done in a genuine spirit of wanting to give the couple a lovely experience in SL.

But unfortunately it could come off, as has been suggested already in the thread (somewhere I think), that it was cliquey as others across the grid getting married don't have this unique experience that was offered. And I do get how that feeling can arise if you are looking from the point of view as someone not part of that group of friends, and I don't think we should dismiss that.

Maybe the community center should have had an opening party first, and then the wedding take place after.

 I wouldn't like to see the LL team refraining from interracting inworld due to situations like this.

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Evangeline Arcadia
Added text

[Syo Emerald]

- decided its not worth it to fight the language police -

Have a nice day. I bet that this still finds a lock somehow.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Syo Emerald

[Eirynne Sieyes]

Everybody was invited to the wedding. I don't know them either but I was invited. We all were. The invitation was on Belli chat and in the notices.

I thought the wedding was an amazing way to open up the beautiful  Fantessaria Community Space. We can all use it. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Eirynne Sieyes
tyyyypoooo

[Chloe Bunny]

29 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Everybody was invited to the wedding. I don't know them either but I was invited. We all were. The invitation was on Belli chat and in the notices.

I saw the invite - great to be invited and I think the couple were given an amazing gift, truly. It is just there is no one size fits all response or reaction and whilst we welcome being invited it is like an invite to someone else's party - rather than an event held for all of us - not all of us will feel the same attending an event like that. 

[Harley Linden]

Hello people of the Second Life Forums. 

As it appears a reminder is needed: Differing opinions are allowed in the Forums. Being wrong is also allowed in the Forums. Name-calling, Flaming, Interpersonal Disputes, and Off-Topic posts? Still not allowed.

Please take a moment to review the rules of engagement: https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/403538-community-participation-guidelines/

Feel free to carry on within those guidelines. Otherwise:

 

[Chloe Bunny]

Thanks for not locking it outright despite a leaning to the inflammatory at times, I think some of the posts give a voice to the  thoughts/feelings of people who are either wanting to be more involved in Bellisseria but struggling to see how or not quite sure of the direction of Bellisseria - among other views. If those voices go unheard they might give up on the place.

[yestothis]

If 5 people voice an opinion, you can bet there are lots more than think it. Nothing stops the next person from making an event and also calling it the event of the year as well lol 

[Bertram Merlin]

On 11/21/2021 at 8:16 PM, animats said:

If that's the plan, it's not working. Look where people are.

Bellissaria, early sections. Lightly populated, mostly by people all alone. The mainland continents show about the same density this Sunday morning.

 

Zindra. Where people get together!

I have a non-adult business on Zindra, and I get enough walk-in sales to pay tier on it. I have a house on the seashore of Bellssaria, and I never see the neighbors.

 

 

For me, why Bellissaria is a mainland connect flop is, LL have put it one of the most stupid places. From the start of the 2 continents it connected to didn't have road access and limited water connection, ex in the snow land end. It just gets worse when the New area hit the continent, with the German part. No road, fly or water access to Ex. Blake Sea. And I have never understood why LL homes not have been built and set up on the tons of A banded existing mainland. That said, I love bellissaris and have house, just stumbled over these when search for where to get the BBB pass after landing in a private home following a link And oh... My home and heart for SL is at Zindra. I love to live there, and it's not be course it's adult, it's a quiet nice continent. Mainly maybe do to a moron, with LL ignorance have total cornered it and stole most land he doesn't sell or rent out. It's either empty or set with junk setup sim after sim. I have tried contact LL about they.. They don't care.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Bertram Merlin

[Eirynne Sieyes]

On 11/21/2021 at 3:44 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

This mantra of "balance" and "complementarity" is one I used always to affirm myself. Now, not so much for a number of reasons. Yes, much of the population (the majority?) of Bellisserian citizens have multiple homes, and many have Mainland properties as well. They're the solid middle class of SL that sustains the world and that's why I have always affirmed it.

But they are indeed discouraging Mainland now in a number of aggressive and subtle ways, and if you haven't seen this perspective from my posts here already, I'm happy to send you a list. People in business and merchant events whose Bellisseria home is merely a private resident or a kind of loss leader to give gifts to people, who are content with the arrangement can go on living as Happy People Eating Noodle Salads. It works for many people. But the happiness expression can get awfully aggressive and exclusive at times. 

And it is more than fair to ask why aggressive recruitment is going on to attract people to Bellisseria, or press them into friendship/commerce circles that benefit certain vehicle and travel businesses, etc. when the Mainland has so many untended issues. Issues not created by other residents exercising their free will to make chaos for others -- that part we get, and frankly, if you've ever spent an afternoon hunting for somebody's TV in Belli that you can hear on your parcel (as MOAP doesn't obey "keep on parcel" rules), then you grasp that the "chaos" can show up anywhere because: human nature.

Obelisks deployed to devalue land; grief prims never removed; land baron land chopping and blight; awkward auctions that create more chaos -- these are all within the Lindens' power to change without zoning Mainland, which they will never do, as long as they have Bellisseria.

And wouldn't it be easier for the Lindens if that's all there was besides private islands...

 

Prok, I think you are right in citing some of the numerous negative consequences of building Belli. Belli, like life, is a Ying and Yang. You can't have one without the other, and this duality jabs a thorn in the eye of many an idealist. Speaking of eyes, in mine, first and foremost, LL is a business. Their job is to fill their coffers. Typically, that is done by making the consumer happy. Everything else is incidental.

There was an empty space in SL that Bellieseria filled. Patch conceived of and flawlessly executed a brilliant plan that was fortuitously enhanced by pandemic timing. 

We, the customers, can't get enough of this pretty place where midair griefer prims do not live. Patch understood the problems with mainland and created a place where community, harmony, and attractions are more or less organized. And it is beautiful!

Of course, the people who have a knack for this stuff, will make a killing. They make it their business to know the players and possess the charm and/or talent to befriend and/or influence the useful. Others were simply in right place at the right time, much like yourself with the land you own near Belli. (However, you are loyal and fair-minded and won't renege on a promise despite potential profit.) Belli is also a magnet for community-minded folk who love to help create a friendly atmosphere and participate in and host attractions. Since there is no black and white, think shades of gray.

I love the mainland too. You can't beat the freedom - or the prim count. My challenge is always to find stable, long-time neighbors who for that reason are less likely to abandon or sell. But we all know there are no guarantees.

I think LL left mainland in favor of a new continent for a number of reasons. First it is easier to start fresh. But there are also good reasons to tread lightly with the mainland. With more freedom and more prims, you can make your presence beneficial - and many have done just that, or you can use it to take your aggression out on the innocents who surreptitiously decide you are in their way or are fun to annoy, etc.  This latter group is often comprised of unhappy souls who revel in being called out; their sense of power increases when they victimize, and it energizes them to retaliate harder. But they also spend money.

Why don't the Lindens clean the mainland up? I suspect that now that Belli has more housing, they may move in that direction. Keep in mind that even the unscrupulous land-chopping griefers with the obelisks and empty vendettas add to the economy, as do the bona fide landlords whose job is to bid up prices. The sale of abandoned land, which I hear has ticked lately, also adds to the Linden war chest despite who LL sells it to.

Now that more ample Belli housing exists, perhaps more attention will go to the mainland. It seems some roads have been added, and maybe a few other things I am out of the loop with. I think part of mainland's appeal is that it is like the Wild West of old. Lol!

The bottom line is that LL is a business; they want profitability, especially now given our new professional, corporate owners. They want as many of us as possible to be happy.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Eirynne Sieyes
spelling

[Prokofy Neva]

7 hours ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Prok, I think you are right in citing some of the numerous negative consequences of building Belli. Belli, like life, is a Ying and Yang. You can't have one without the other, and this duality jabs a thorn in the eye of many an idealist. Speaking of eyes, in mine, first and foremost, LL is a business. Their job is to fill their coffers. Typically, that is done by making the consumer happy. Everything else is incidental.

There was an empty space in SL that Bellieseria filled. Patch conceived of and flawlessly executed a brilliant plan that was fortuitously enhanced by pandemic timing. 

We, the customers, can't get enough of this pretty place where midair griefer prims do not live. Patch understood the problems with mainland and created a place where community, harmony, and attractions are more or less organized. And it is beautiful!

Of course, the people who have a knack for this stuff, will make a killing. They make it their business to know the players and possess the charm and/or talent to befriend and/or influence the useful. Others were simply in right place at the right time, much like yourself with the land you own near Belli. (However, you are loyal and fair-minded and won't renege on a promise despite potential profit.) Belli is also a magnet for community-minded folk who love to help create a friendly atmosphere and participate in and host attractions. Since there is no black and white, think shades of gray.

I love the mainland too. You can't beat the freedom - or the prim count. My challenge is always to find stable, long-time neighbors who for that reason are less likely to abandon or sell. But we all know there are no guarantees.

I think LL left mainland in favor of a new continent for a number of reasons. First it is easier to start fresh. But there are also good reasons to tread lightly with the mainland. With more freedom and more prims, you can make your presence beneficial - and many have done just that, or you can use it to take your aggression out on the innocents who surreptitiously decide you are in their way or are fun to annoy, etc.  This latter group is often comprised of unhappy souls who revel in being called out; their sense of power increases when they victimize, and it energizes them to retaliate harder. But they also spend money.

Why don't the Lindens clean the mainland up? I suspect that now that Belli has more housing, they may move in that direction. Keep in mind that even the unscrupulous land-chopping griefers with the obelisks and empty vendettas add to the economy, as do the bona fide landlords whose job is to bid up prices. The sale of abandoned land, which I hear has ticked lately, also adds to the Linden war chest despite who LL sells it to.

Now that more ample Belli housing exists, perhaps more attention will go to the mainland. It seems some roads have been added, and maybe a few other things I am out of the loop with. I think part of mainland's appeal is that it is like the Wild West of old. Lol!

The bottom line is that LL is a business; they want profitability, especially now given our new professional, corporate owners. They want as many of us as possible to be happy.

I think you have outlined the narrative very well. But I don't know what grounds you have for saying that now that the Lindens have launched and stabilized Belli, they will turn to the Mainland. I don't see any evidence for that. I see the opposite. I see them aggressively moving on a number of fronts in fact to diminish Mainland -- not answering griefing ARs, not adding improvements, burning through abandoned land and selling larger clumps of it to get it off their accounts, etc. If anything they will double down on Belli and soon we will see 4096 Bellis and homestead Bellis or some larger size to accommodate the "more prims". They wouldn't be cooking up this "ambassadors" stuff if their purpose was to "return" and replenish the Mainland. There, the purpose is to get people to move to Belli

No Linden in power has articulated any vision for Mainland, the way Philip would say "I'm building a world" and all the rest of it. He viewed islands as a necessary diversion to accommodate the problems spawned by the 'tragedy of the commons" and "the hell of other people" -- and I think he thought he could put corporations and universities on them and keep them sequestered off from SL society -- but of course he's gone now, and expressing doubts about the Metaverse as a whole, based on his deep understanding of all the problems of these worlds.

I don't know why you are saying "it seems some roads were added." Says who? Where. You say ""maybe a few other things". Like what? We haven't even gotten new premium presents in ages because the Lindens feel Belli is the present, with its ample content packs. I don't know what your purpose is here in making these claims which amount to speculation if not propaganda. There are no new roads. There are no new things. There are no old things that should be done, like removing grief prims. 

[Prokofy Neva]

On 12/2/2021 at 9:28 AM, Bertram Merlin said:

For me, why Bellissaria is a mainland connect flop is, LL have put it one of the most stupid places. From the start of the 2 continents it connected to didn't have road access and limited water connection, ex in the snow land end. It just gets worse when the New area hit the continent, with the German part. No road, fly or water access to Ex. Blake Sea. And I have never understood why LL homes not have been built and set up on the tons of A banded existing mainland. That said, I love bellissaris and have house, just stumbled over these when search for where to get the BBB pass after landing in a private home following a link And oh... My home and heart for SL is at Zindra. I love to live there, and it's not be course it's adult, it's a quiet nice continent. Mainly maybe do to a moron, with LL ignorance have total cornered it and stole most land he doesn't sell or rent out. It's either empty or set with junk setup sim after sim. I have tried contact LL about they.. They don't care.

That's quite an interesting idea, for the Lindens to put down Belli type areas on abandoned Mainland. Wouldn't that make a difference!

[Eirynne Sieyes]

The moles have added a long-requested connecting road to the mainland not too long ago. I read that in the forums, likely in Mainland Forum. Cannot tell you offhand where it is. If there is real interest, I will find it. Attaching mainland to Belli also displays increased interest. Those items along with the more aggressive selling off of long-standing abandoned property is what gives me hope that they will clean up their mainland act a little. But not enough to lose any customers. Lol! 

[Prokofy Neva]

2 hours ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

The moles have added a long-requested connecting road to the mainland not too long ago. I read that in the forums, likely in Mainland Forum. Cannot tell you offhand where it is. If there is real interest, I will find it. Attaching mainland to Belli also displays increased interest. Those items along with the more aggressive selling off of long-standing abandoned property is what gives me hope that they will clean up their mainland act a little. But not enough to lose any customers. Lol! 

Attaching Mainland to Belli is not "improving the Mainland". It's helping siphon the Mainland off into Belli.

Yes, do find this "connecting road". Just not seeing it. And if it is about "connecting to Belli," sorry, that's not on the scoresheet of "Mainland improvements."

Selling off abandoned land is not "cleaning up the Mainland" in the way it needs to be "cleaned up". I've explained this in detail elsewhere. It can have the opposite effect than intended, and actually lead to more rounds of abandoned land.

[Eirynne Sieyes]

 It wasn't about connecting mainland to Belli. Abnor connected two routes in Satori last Summer.

In addition, I did not say that the Lab would now turn its attention to the mainland. I said that I saw evidence of some constructive change as per above and think that doing so may be in the Lab's economic interest if done in a way that retains the paying customer.

We agree that selling off abandoned property can go either way, however, it fills their coffers now.

About connecting the mainland, I think it is a mixed bag. Personally, I like the idea for many reasons. I don't know if Belli will subsume the mainland. I hope not and don't think this would be in the Lab's interest since these are different markets that appeal to different folk. We will see in time. However, connecting the mainland has bid up prices. The Lindens and some customers are making money. That is the goal of any business. Let's see where this goes.

My comments come entirely from an economic perspective. The Lindens have a business plan they likely adjust based on the numbers. Since I like it here, I am rooting for them to succeed. The only thing I am confident about is that this is a business and LL wants to grow it. To do so they need to keep the residents happy and attract new ones. Hopefully they make the best choices with the fewest unintended consequences. While the fallout from their educated guesses is incidental, it does affect some residents more than others.

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Eirynne Sieyes
completed post

[Prokofy Neva]

4 hours ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

 It wasn't about connecting mainland to Belli. Abnor connected two routes in Satori last Summer.

In addition, I did not say that the Lab would now turn its attention to the mainland. I said that I saw evidence of some constructive change as per above and think that doing so may be in the Lab's economic interest if done in a way that retains the paying customer.

We agree that selling off abandoned property can go either way, however, it fills their coffers now.

About connecting the mainland, I think it is a mixed bag. Personally, I like the idea for many reasons. I don't know if Belli will subsume the mainland. I hope not and don't think this would be in the Lab's interest since these are different markets that appeal to different folk. We will see in time. However, connecting the mainland has bid up prices. The Lindens and some customers are making money. That is the goal of any business. Let's see where this goes.

My comments come entirely from an economic perspective. The Lindens have a business plan they likely adjust based on the numbers. Since I like it here, I am rooting for them to succeed. The only thing I am confident about is that this is a business and LL wants to grow it. To do so they need to keep the residents happy and attract new ones. Hopefully they make the best choices with the fewest unintended consequences. While the fallout from their educated guesses is incidental, it does affect some residents more than others.

 

I think one short road that joins up abandoned land with other land isn't what I would call "constructive change". It's probably the result of special pleading. 

I don't take this attitude of "Linden business uber alles". The track record shows that they harm their business when they harm us. And harm us they have in myriad ways since their founding, whether crashing the auction years ago and devaluing prices overnight, or introducing VAT without any ramp-up, or removing telehubs and devaluing all the land and stores around them (they could have left them as hubs and added p2p without any trouble; after all, telehubs are what are landings on islands, you know? Or suddenly, arbitrarily banning gatchas, or hundreds of big or little things I could mention.

So it's a balance, so if they chase after one sector of customers that seems to be growing and prosperous, like the middle class of Bellisseria, but then Mainland suffers where there are also major customers, and not just Blake Sea sailors, not to mention islands, then ultimately their business suffers. 

And keep which residents happy, how? They aren't a uniform commodity. There are all kinds of sectors and interest groups and levels. You are putting far too positive a spin on their "unintentional consequences" and "educated guesses" when some of their actions have been undertaken with narrow-eyed cynicism and even glee, like removal of the telehubs and ban of gatchas, with their forums fan base in the "amen" corner. It's not always the benign business-oriented approach as some things they do are purely ideological, and aren't in their business interests or any business interests one could postulate.

 

[Eirynne Sieyes]

59 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I think one short road that joins up abandoned land with other land isn't what I would call "constructive change". It's probably the result of special pleading. 

 

Hahaha Prok! I love how you coin terms! "Special pleading!" I think you may be right, and that would live under the Human Nature section of Incidentals.

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

I've had enough of the manipulative emotional language and conspiracy theories and assumptions of why others make the business decisions they do.  If people want the Lab to work only for them, then they should provide something of enough monetary value that it makes a good business decision to follow the suggestion. The arrogance of actually thinking that if the lab would "only see the light and do things my way" the world and everyone in it would be better off.  My way would make trumpets call from on high!  Everyone is against me.  Every decision hurts me and provides no value to others.

Arbitrary this, glee that, they purposely make bad business decisions for fun because watching customers suffer is great, blah blah blah, the whole business is based on favoritism (because it's not revolving around me)

Seriously, I do wonder if complaining is what people live for.  They (general 'they) should do something to change their circumstances to better serve themselves or make the tough decision that it is in their best mental health interest to leave and find another outlet for their conspiracies.  Offering suggestions and listening to the feedback received is adult.  Making up reasons for why everyone else is bad is kind of childish.  Things change.  Businesses make decisions that need to be made to make their businesses more profitable whether it is for a international reasons or closer to home.  Sometimes those decisions do not benefit everyone.  Sometimes decisions are walked back because they did not have the intended outcome.  It is not personal.  It is not against a few individuals as a personal attack on them just to do them harm.  Businesses are usually around to make a profit.  Where can they get the biggest bang for their buck?  That is where a majority of their resources will go.  Belli is not the only thing that helps to make a profit, so it will not be the only thing that they want to take care of.  It is "in the news now" because it has been successful, but it is not the only thing they offer or encourage.  I am pretty sure any business will spread out and care for the profitable parts.  No one want to put all their eggs in one basket.  It is short-sighted to think only one thing can be focused on at a time.  Equally short-sighted to think they do not have any future plans just because they haven't shared them with you.

[Prokofy Neva]

6 hours ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I've had enough of the manipulative emotional language and conspiracy theories and assumptions of why others make the business decisions they do.  If people want the Lab to work only for them, then they should provide something of enough monetary value that it makes a good business decision to follow the suggestion. The arrogance of actually thinking that if the lab would "only see the light and do things my way" the world and everyone in it would be better off.  My way would make trumpets call from on high!  Everyone is against me.  Every decision hurts me and provides no value to others.

Arbitrary this, glee that, they purposely make bad business decisions for fun because watching customers suffer is great, blah blah blah, the whole business is based on favoritism (because it's not revolving around me)

Seriously, I do wonder if complaining is what people live for.  They (general 'they) should do something to change their circumstances to better serve themselves or make the tough decision that it is in their best mental health interest to leave and find another outlet for their conspiracies.  Offering suggestions and listening to the feedback received is adult.  Making up reasons for why everyone else is bad is kind of childish.  Things change.  Businesses make decisions that need to be made to make their businesses more profitable whether it is for a international reasons or closer to home.  Sometimes those decisions do not benefit everyone.  Sometimes decisions are walked back because they did not have the intended outcome.  It is not personal.  It is not against a few individuals as a personal attack on them just to do them harm.  Businesses are usually around to make a profit.  Where can they get the biggest bang for their buck?  That is where a majority of their resources will go.  Belli is not the only thing that helps to make a profit, so it will not be the only thing that they want to take care of.  It is "in the news now" because it has been successful, but it is not the only thing they offer or encourage.  I am pretty sure any business will spread out and care for the profitable parts.  No one want to put all their eggs in one basket.  It is short-sighted to think only one thing can be focused on at a time.  Equally short-sighted to think they do not have any future plans just because they haven't shared them with you.

I think it's amazing that you landed that log cabin right overlooking the Rigamarole gorge. 

[Prokofy Neva]

6 hours ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Hahaha Prok! I love how you coin terms! "Special pleading!" I think you may be right, and that would live under the Human Nature section of Incidentals.

It's not a term I coined. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I think it's amazing that you landed that log cabin right overlooking the Rigamarole gorge. 

I feel incredibly lucky.  The region release was mentioned in the "When Did You Last See..." thread.  I quickly logged in and got it on my 4th roll of the dice.

[Prokofy Neva]

2 hours ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I feel incredibly lucky.  The region release was mentioned in the "When Did You Last See..." thread.  I quickly logged in and got it on my 4th roll of the dice.

4th roll, you say?

[Prokofy Neva]

The Russian historian Yuri Afanasyev used to have this great phrase to describe the conformists: "the aggressively obedient majority."