Is SL too hard for newbies?

[victoravatar]

LOL SL is not hard for newbies. It really just depends on the person and how high their RL IQ is to understand all of it. Everything is explained right and there is a tutorial at the beginning explaining everything you need to know when you first create a new avatar and when you buy mesh bodies and heads there are tutorials on that too either on a notecard or somewhere else. PS a lot of newbie tutorials on youtube. It's just like learning photoshop, when you are a newbie at it at first it's very hard because you don't know where to start from but once you watch a youtube tutorial or something you get better at it. Ofc you'd have to pay attention to every single detail the tutorial has to offer

[Persephone Emerald]

I used to like how Second Life screened out people who we're unwilling or unable to learn how to use it. Now I think Linden Lab needs to make the onboarding easier, so they can retain more users and thus stay profitable.

Yes, it's too hard for most newbies. It's confusing and makes most newbies feel frustrated and lost.

Don't ruin the fun we old-timers have with this crazy virtual world, but help the new people get adjusted to it faster. There are plenty of examples of better game-play to draw from and plenty of smart, creative people working at Linden Lab who can iron out some of the wrinkles in this old game. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Persephone Emerald

[Marigold Devin]

36 minutes ago, victoravatar said:

LOL SL is not hard for newbies. It really just depends on the person and how high their RL IQ is to understand all of it. Everything is explained right and there is a tutorial at the beginning explaining everything you need to know when you first create a new avatar and when you buy mesh bodies and heads there are tutorials on that too either on a notecard or somewhere else. PS a lot of newbie tutorials on youtube. It's just like learning photoshop, when you are a newbie at it at first it's very hard because you don't know where to start from but once you watch a youtube tutorial or something you get better at it. Ofc you'd have to pay attention to every single detail the tutorial has to offer

I don't think it is dependent on a person's RL IQ. 

(Do you understand all of it?)

Edited November 24, 2021 by Marigold Devin

[BjorJlen]

   Being one with a semi moderate IQ myself imo, I do not think IQ plays as much a part of it as some people might think and assume. I think it involves a whole bunch of different things, which vary from person to person as the case may be. Yes there ARE some things in SL that could make learning things in game a bit easier, and LL caring enough to do something positive about it would go a long way too.
   But it also about how much time they want spend on learning the game, how much $$$/investment they want to put into it generally speaking, and even what they first experience when they first Rez into SL. Because lets face it, if anyone Rezzes into the training area or the newbie town there after, and encounters some smuck who griefs them bad, they might just decide that it's just not worth it in the long haul. And then go back to Call of Duty and shoot things to relieve their frustration. But it is rarely ever just one thing like IQ (for example)...

Peace...

Edited November 24, 2021 by BjorJlen

[Coffee Pancake]

5 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

Yes, you did. It was super restrictive and gave no hint to the fact that SL was much more than just navigating in your scene, visiting destinations and text chatting. 

This is very much the experience they tried to recreate in Sansar.

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 hour ago, victoravatar said:

LOL SL is not hard for newbies. It really just depends on the person and how high their RL IQ is to understand all of it. Everything is explained right and there is a tutorial at the beginning explaining everything you need to know when you first create a new avatar and when you buy mesh bodies and heads there are tutorials on that too either on a notecard or somewhere else. PS a lot of newbie tutorials on youtube. It's just like learning photoshop, when you are a newbie at it at first it's very hard because you don't know where to start from but once you watch a youtube tutorial or something you get better at it. Ofc you'd have to pay attention to every single detail the tutorial has to offer

I do not think that is the case for trying to understand a game of any type. I just think it is more dependent on how well put together a tutorial is, and in my opinion. LL did absolute crap on putting together a well-thought-out tutorial. They throw you onto a tutorial island with a bunch of HUDs, that doesn't really help. If they made it more hands-on and more focused on being as well put together as say a Tutorial from like the Elder Scrolls. Then maybe people would have a better chance to be able to get SL, but at the same time. They also practically leave you alone after and don't tell you what places would be best to go. In a virtual world like SL, knowing where to buy things and hangout after tutorial island, would also benefit new users as well. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, BjorJlen said:

   Being one with a semi moderate IQ myself imo, I do not think IQ plays as much a part of it as some people might think and assume. I think it involves a whole bunch of different things, which vary from person to person as the case may be. Yes there ARE some things in SL that could make learning things in game a bit easier, and LL caring enough to do something positive about it would go a long way too.
   But it also about how much time they want spend on learning the game, how much $$$/investment they want to put into it generally speaking, and even what they first experience when they first Rez into SL. Because lets face it, if anyone Rezzes into the training area or the newbie town there after, and encounters some smuck who griefs them bad, they might just decide that it's just not worth it in the long haul. And then go back to Call of Duty and shoot things to relieve their frustration. But it is rarely ever just one thing like IQ (for example)...

Peace...

 

There are only three things you need for SL. Lots of patience, perseverance, and tolerance. If, like me, you're a bit short on tolerance (some things just NO) then the ability to ignore or overlook comes in handy. Most people don't really have the patience.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[animats]

2 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Lots of patience, perseverance, and tolerance.

Those are so last-cen.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, animats said:

Those are so last-cen.

No, those are qualities every human needs and too many sorely lack.

[BjorJlen]

   Absolutely Silent, I couldn't agree with you more! Great words of advice. Oh and animats, what the heck does "last-cen" even mean? I would look it up on Google, but I am afraid I just don't have the patience for that (hehehe )...

Peace...

[Arielle Popstar]

I do think IQ has a fair bit to do with becoming a resident of S/L vs a VW like IMVU. Having come from IMVU and promoted S/L a fair amount to friends after I did transition, I found a very common objection was that it was just too difficult to grasp the ins and outs of the S/L viewer. To be fair, the IMVU viewer is substantially easier and user friendly, being much more graphically oriented in its inventory along with navigation buttons that simplify the shopping and dressing experience to a point where even younger teens readily grasp the knowledge required to get around inworld. Though IMVU has tutorials like S/L does, many really don't need them and find it user friendly enough to be able to get by without needing to resort to getting additional help. That is a fair bit different than in S/L where I see the Firestorm support group almost non stop busy fielding questions about how to sort out the finer points of the viewer. The S/L viewer itself not having a support group like the FS one is probably a major reason why there is no new user retention as even I find that viewer a pita. 

Probably more important though is the S/L social scene. Of the various social worlds I have been to, I found the S/L one the most difficult. I did come with a partner which helped immensely but within a few months of joining S/L, we found the Opensimulator grids and though they had a lot less people, there was a more small town feel to them wherein it was much easier to break into the social circles there. For me it is the social life that provides a lot of the motivation to keep coming back to a virtual world. Can have all the bells and whistles, but if the social life sucks, people are not going to stick around long, especially if a newbie of less than 30 days is being ostracized for their dress or lack of time in. New people are really the most important people because without them, S/L or any other social world will just whither and die. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, BjorJlen said:

   Absolutely Silent, I couldn't agree with you more! Great words of advice. Oh and animats, what the heck does "last-cen" even mean? I would look it up on Google, but I am afraid I just don't have the patience for that (hehehe )...

Peace...

I used up the last of my patience 20 years ago.

Now I just smoke a bowl and shine them on. 🤭

[Claireschen Hesten]

3 hours ago, victoravatar said:

Everything is explained right and there is a tutorial at the beginning explaining everything you need to know when you first create a new avatar

That might be the case now, when i joined 13.5+ years ago there was no such thing i rezzed somewhere was handed a couple of LM's by a kind person and plunged straight in to the deep end no orientation process i had to figure everything out for myself. If i was someone that had no previous computer gaming experience, not very computer savvy i wouldn't have stuck around as long as i have

[Solar Legion]

Rest assured, there was indeed a decent enough orientation process back in 2007/8 - they'd just swapped over to a newer one than what I saw in '06.

Frankly? I am glad the control scheme is different to "games", same with the UI. There is no reason to encourage people to lump Second Life in with MMOs and the like - none. Learn the controls or go play Summoning of Responsibility 23: Hurr Durr, Shoot 'em All.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Solar Legion

[Lindal Kidd]

1 hour ago, BjorJlen said:

what the heck does "last-cen" even mean?

Last century. Old, tired, outdated, passe'.

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

 If i was someone that had no previous computer gaming experience, not very computer savvy i wouldn't have stuck around as long as i have

That was me.  I skipped most of the learning island too or whatever it was 12 yrs ago.  I'm still here!   I still have no gaming experience and I'm somewhat (cough) computer literate but even that, I figured out on my own.

[animats]

LL might actually be lurching toward solving the "too hard" problem.

First, there are viewer speedups coming from LL, per the Lindens at the last content creators meeting. Maybe as fast as 2x-3x. Also, on the Firestorm side, automatic quality adjustment to keep the frame rate up is coming. There's interest in doing simplified rendering of distant avatars, or forcing them to impostor mode. This would relieve a pain point for new users. Plus, multi-thread loading of assets is already in test. As is getting the 2D UI out of the main render thread. The overall effect should be to get viewer performance into acceptable gamer range. (All this is independent of the stuff I've been working on in Rust, which is much further away.)

Second, LL seems to be becoming aware that Roblox has solved the clothing layer fit problem and they might have to catch up. That's a tough retrofit for SL; Roblox is adding layered clothing; they didn't have it. But now that somebody did it, we can look at how. Also, it' easier to sell management on catching up with a competitor than doing something new.

Third, the destination guide has been improving. There's more fun stuff listed. This will help new users answer the "what do I do now" question.

Those are the three big new user pain points.

 

[rasterscan]

5 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

... I skipped most of the learning island too or whatever it was 12 yrs ago.  I'm still here!   I still have no gaming experience and I'm somewhat (cough) computer literate but even that, I figured out on my own.

Good one ! I came, went, came, went, came and stayed on the third attempt. Seeing what was possible but ignorant of the how put me off the first two times. On the third attempt I met a lovely lass in a sandbox where I was wearing a delivery box instead of the new shoes I'd got for free on the MP.

That lass taught me so much that evening, about how to play the basics. She ended that session asking if she could kiss me goodnight, I readily agreed. Three months later I had to buy a 'potion' off the MP at 600L$ to 'get my soul back'. She was a vampire and that kiss was a bite. Laughs now

Edited November 24, 2021 by rasterscan

[cunomar]

12 hours ago, victoravatar said:

It really just depends on the person and how high their RL IQ

Lol , as if IQ has anything whatsoever to do with computers .

Any fool can be trained to use a computer , or to be a mechanic or A chef , and as with anything those who will excel are those who find genuine enjoyment in it .

Funny thing is you prompted me to do an online IQ test and guess what , it says my results are above average and i only need to pay i think it was $17 to have them emailed to me 🤣 who is dumb enough to do that lol

I bet the designer of that website would die of starvation if their microwave oven and phone died on the same day .

[Adam Spark]

12 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This is very much the experience they tried to recreate in Sansar.

Sansar was much better when you consider that as a platform, it was never more than a half baked beta test before they spun it off -- if it isn't still that half baked beta lol. This was a viewer that made SL feel like a half baked beta a few years after it could claim that it was.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Adam Spark

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Adam Spark said:

Sansar was much better when you consider that as a platform, it was never more than a half baked beta test before they spun it off -- if it isn't still that half baked beta lol. This was a viewer that made SL feel like a half baked beta a few years after it could claim that it was.

Beta tends to mean finished yet unpolished. 

In Sansars case, the fundamental platform we got on the first day was representative. Everything alluding to greater things in the future was just hype that predicated such additional functionality on growth.

Or in other words, none of the promise would be delivered if people didn't jump on the beta as though it was already perfect.

[cunomar]

Rather than quoting myself from the what works in SL thread , i will simply ask why isn't there a gateway to Sansar in SL , why isn't it just another sim with alternative parameters .

[Theresa Tennyson]

3 hours ago, cunomar said:

Rather than quoting myself from the what works in SL thread , i will simply ask why isn't there a gateway to Sansar in SL , why isn't it just another sim with alternative parameters .

Why isn't there a gateway to Mars on Earth, why isn't it just another place with alternative parameters?

Edited November 25, 2021 by Theresa Tennyson

[Lindal Kidd]

It's not too hard for SOME newbies!

Last night, I met one who thought he was playing "Firestorm", asked me if the freebie landmarks I had sent him was needed to complete "the quest", asked if he only had the one avatar, and asked if I was "the owner".

But in spite of his misperceptions, he was very sharp. He caught on quickly and by the end of an hour or so he'd tried out several avatars, made and manipulated his first prim, understood the concept of making and importing mesh, and was following my suggestions to fix an inventory issue.

Sadly, we didn't manage to fix it. All of his Library folders were empty, except for the Clothing folder and the Linden DPW content. This should NOT happen to a newbie!

[Extrude Ragu]

On 11/24/2021 at 7:08 AM, animats said:

First, there are viewer speedups coming from LL, per the Lindens at the last content creators meeting. Maybe as fast as 2x-3x. Also, on the Firestorm side, automatic quality adjustment to keep the frame rate up is coming. There's interest in doing simplified rendering of distant avatars, or forcing them to impostor mode. This would relieve a pain point for new users. Plus, multi-thread loading of assets is already in test. As is getting the 2D UI out of the main render thread. The overall effect should be to get viewer performance into acceptable gamer range. (All this is independent of the stuff I've been working on in Rust, which is much further away.)

I had noticed a pretty substantial looking commit in SecondLife's viewer repo named 'Rigged Mesh Rendering Overhaul' which had me wondering if they are working on performance things 🤔 Maybe related,