Once again, it is perfectly ok to play a child avatar

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I have seen a fair few profiles that say 18+ and have considered putting it on my own as it gets to be a pain having to go through 20 questions as to whether I am old enough. The barely legal or teen babysitter I can't recall having seen specifically but then even so, neither state that they are underage and would be within the ToS. Are there regulations for what roleplays are legal between consenting adults?

We can go around on this all day, Arielle.  Most people can distinguish those women who are just petite and those trying to push the boundaries hoping to attract men into young girls.  Whether consciously or subconsciously, I have no idea.  The rules state no sexual activity with an avatar APPEARING to be underage.   What you state in your profile is irrelevant if your avatar LOOKS 14.  Simple as that.  If a lot of people keep.thinking your avatar is underage, well....

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Yes -- One major one:  No participant in sexual activities (or even being near sexual activities) is allowed by anyone role playing a child in SL -- despite the fact that said participant is a consenting adult in RL.

The under 18 avatar is not even allowed to be in proximity to adult furniture, depictions or activity.  Not just engaging in it.  This is why some adult region that may not advertise as sex places yet have adult furniture will not allow avatars that appear to be too young.  

[Silent Mistwalker]

3 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Per the Edit Shape window, Lil is 1.81 meters tall, which translates to 5.95 feet.  That is taller than my RL size of roughly 5.58 feet - and I am considered average height in RL -- yet most people in SL tower over me like giants.

Size does not necessarily dictate 'child' or not.  Facial features, overall appearance, how you act in SL, what your profile says, etc... are all more accurate indicators.

The only thing that says "child" about my avatar IS the height. I still got banned for being a child avatar at one place and they won't listen. Not that I give a damn about that particular place. I was following an old landmark when it happened. The security orb or whatever they were using kicked and banned me for being under sized. At 5' 4"/ 162-163 cm.

People who are that paranoid shouldn't be in SL.

[Arielle Popstar]

8 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Honestly, it all sounds like ways of justifying murky behavior.

Because it is murky, on both sides of the debate. Define what looks like an underage avatar, define their intent, define proximity to adult furniture, define underage roleplay, why is it that in virtual the perpetrator is the one who looks young whereas in the real world they are the victim? Rhetorical questions so no need to answer but something that I wonder about each time these sort of threads come up. GN

[Rowan Amore]

8 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

The only thing that says "child" about my avatar IS the height. I still got banned for being a child avatar at one place and they won't listen. Not that I give a damn about that particular place. I was following an old landmark when it happened. The security orb or whatever they were using kicked and banned me for being under sized. At 5' 4"/ 162-163 cm.

People who are that paranoid shouldn't be in SL.

Height, to me, is the least telling feature for saying someone is a child.  In the years I've been in SL, the average avatar is far shorter now than when I started.  I guess not everyone got that memo.  I'm tall in RL.  I love being shorter in SL!

Edited December 23, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[Silent Mistwalker]

12 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The under 18 avatar is not even allowed to be in proximity to adult furniture, depictions or activity.  Not just engaging in it.  This is why some adult region that may not advertise as sex places yet have adult furniture will not allow avatars that appear to be too young.  

I think everyone is missing one detail that is actually quite important and a pretty big one. LL has stated that the onus is on the visiting avatar.

 

(Stolen from Drake's post)

Quote

"Yes, child avatars (having been verified as being operated by adults in real life) are allowed in adult regions, but the existing rules prohibiting sexual ***** or proximity to sexual content still apply. Since Adult regions by design will often contain sexual content, child avatars should use caution in visiting those areas."

 

 

[Lucia Nightfire]

9 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

LL has stated that the onus is on the visiting avatar.

This isn't always the case, particularly if a child avatar engages in sexual activity with an adult avatar who is AFK on a sex bed in an AFK sex location. In this particular case, Governance has many times disciplined the adult avatar owner and not the child avatar owner. There have been a few forum threads about this particular problem in the AFK industry.

Child avatars in this regard can potentially be capable(weaponized) provocateur accounts.

[Nick0678]

So height is what determines adulthood...

[LittleMe Jewell]

55 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

why is it that in virtual the perpetrator is the one who looks young whereas in the real world they are the victim?

Yes, I know it was a rhetorical question, but I'm giving an answer anyway.

In RL, the child really is a child, to be protected - thus the victim.

In SL, everyone is an adult and the ones that wish to engage in sexual activity while pretending to be as close to a child as they possibly can get and still claim adulthood are often doing it because they want to push those age boundaries. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

Height, to me, is the least telling feature for saying someone is a child.

This is certainly true, but it's the case that it is the most easily quantifiable measure of the age that someone is representing, regardless of how accurate it is. (And it's not very accurate, as you and others have pointed out here.)

This is a real problem. How, without literally listening in on public and private chatter, is LL going to be able to detect this kind of activity when it happens. I take it as a given that no one wants that kind of intrusive and invasive surveillance from LL.

Any reasonably intelligent person, examining the descriptions of many groups and sims, not to mention profiles, would be able to surmise that age pl*y is going on -- but that's an awful lot of work, and it involves the kind of critical thinking that AI is not capable of performing.

So . . . LL, and many sim owners, rely instead on the most obvious and accessible measure that something untoward might be intended -- avatar appearance. It's a terribly crude measure, but it permits LL to say that it is "doing something" to prevent age pl*y. And that in turn makes sim owners nervous about avatar height -- because they recognize that this is the most usual way that LL makes its determinations.

[Silent Mistwalker]

23 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This is certainly true, but it's the case that it is the most easily quantifiable measure of the age that someone is representing, regardless of how accurate it is. (And it's not very accurate, as you and others have pointed out here.)

This is a real problem. How, without literally listening in on public and private chatter, is LL going to be able to detect this kind of activity when it happens. I take it as a given that no one wants that kind of intrusive and invasive surveillance from LL.

Any reasonably intelligent person, examining the descriptions of many groups and sims, not to mention profiles, would be able to surmise that age pl*y is going on -- but that's an awful lot of work, and it involves the kind of critical thinking that AI is not capable of performing.

So . . . LL, and many sim owners, rely instead on the most obvious and accessible measure that something untoward might be intended -- avatar appearance. It's a terribly crude measure, but it permits LL to say that it is "doing something" to prevent age pl*y. And that in turn makes sim owners nervous about avatar height -- because they recognize that this is the most usual way that LL makes its determinations.

Then it's pretty convenient for LL to forget that many underage kids are taller than the average adult. Look at these junior high and high school athletes.

That last pic are freshmen football players, 14- and 15-year-old kids. No, they won't pass for adults. Certainly not on height alone. 

LL playing dumb isn't going to stand up in a court of law and they know that. Or they should, by now.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

LL playing dumb isn't going to stand up in a court of law.

That's a very interesting question. But it would have to go to court before it could be tested, and it's difficult to imagine that happening -- or even how the necessary evidence could be compiled.

LL isn't, I think, terribly concerned about actual criminal proceedings. They worry about public relations and, possibly, political blowback from countries where this sort of thing is less tolerated than it frankly is in the US.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

That's a very interesting question. But it would have to go to court before it could be tested, and it's difficult to imagine that happening -- or even how the necessary evidence could be compiled.

LL isn't, I think, terribly concerned about actual criminal proceedings. They worry about public relations and, possibly, political blowback from countries where this sort of thing is less tolerated than it frankly is in the US.

Aye, there's the rub. 😉

[Drake1 Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Then it's pretty convenient for LL to forget that many underage kids are taller than the average adult. Look at these junior high and high school athletes.

That last pic are freshmen football players, 14- and 15-year-old kids. No, they won't pass for adults. Certainly not on height alone. 

LL playing dumb isn't going to stand up in a court of law and they know that. Or they should, by now.

Picked my daughter up from High School this afternoon, I pointed at one of the young ladies who was dressed well, no backpack and asked "Is that one of the new teachers aides?" She looked at me and said deadpan, "That's one of the freshmen, she's 14."
I would have sworn on a stack of bibles she was over 25.  Looks can be very deceiving.  And then you have the ones that look like extras from a Cardi B video... 

[davidventer]

4 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

If you retort to them was, "Child avs can go on any land" then yes, i would boot you as well as your response should have been, "I am an adult av."

No, I said “I’m not a child”. I mean, I don’t even look like one, not even in the slightest. But they were towering over me at like I dunno… max leg, torso and body height I guess, by the looks of it. They said child av’s are not allowed on adult sims per LL rules (which I also assumed as true at the time) and that I should make myself bigger if I want to be there. I said no, I’m not changing, I’m not a child. So they kicked and banned me.

Edit: I should mention, this wasn’t even a sex-themed place, no adult content; just a “normal” looking event/music venue on an adult region.

It’s actually that very incident that made me double check the community guidelines on the knowledge-base regarding child avatars on adult regions, since I’m life-sized and some people seem  to think that “small” (in comparison to them) = “child.”… then seeing that even if I were a “child”, I would’ve been allowed there. I think there’s just this inaccurate general assumption regarding the region ratings and even life-sized adults catch the brunt of it. So now, every time anyone brings up the topic, I chime in and drop the link to the Knowledgebase because, I think the majority of people have the wrong assumptions (like I did) before actually going over all the guidelines. But no one likes reading the fine print. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited December 23, 2021 by davidventer

[Drake1 Nightfire]

4 minutes ago, davidventer said:

No, I said “I’m not a child”. I mean, I don’t even look like one, not even in the slightest. But they were towering over me at like I dunno… max leg, torso and body height I guess, by the looks of it. They said child av’s are not allowed on adult sims per LL rules (which I also assumed as true at the time) and that I should make myself bigger if I want to be there. I said no, I’m not changing, I’m not a child. So they kicked and banned me.

It’s actually that very incident that made me double check the community guidelines on the knowledge-base regarding child avatars on adult regions, since I’m life-sized and some people seem  to think that “small” (in comparison to them) = “child.”… then seeing that even if I were a “child”, I would’ve been allowed there. I think there’s just this inaccurate general assumption regarding the region ratings and even life-sized adults catch the brunt of it. So now, every time anyone brings up the topic, I chime in and drop the link to the Knowledgebase because, I think the majority of people have the wrong assumptions (like I did) before actually going over all the guidelines. But no one likes reading the fine print. 🤷🏻‍♂️

But they aren't allowed everywhere.. Straight from that page you list. 

"Yes, child avatars (having been verified as being operated by adults in real life) are allowed in adult regions, but the existing rules prohibiting sexual ***** or proximity to sexual content still apply. Since Adult regions by design will often contain sexual content, child avatars should use caution in visiting those areas."

They are not allowed near adult furniture and sexual content. Which includes pronographic images. 

[davidventer]

12 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

But they aren't allowed everywhere.. Straight from that page you list. 

"Yes, child avatars (having been verified as being operated by adults in real life) are allowed in adult regions, but the existing rules prohibiting sexual ***** or proximity to sexual content still apply. Since Adult regions by design will often contain sexual content, child avatars should use caution in visiting those areas."

They are not allowed near adult furniture and sexual content. Which includes pronographic images. 

I am able to read. I did in fact, read all the content on the page from the Knowledgebase link I posted. I know the guidelines, I’ve read them. Thanks. You’re seriously just trolling now.  🙄🤦🏻‍♂️

18 minutes ago, davidventer said:

Edit: I should mention, this wasn’t even a sex-themed place, no adult content; just a “normal” looking event/music venue on an adult region.

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by davidventer

[belindacarson]

1 hour ago, davidventer said:

I am able to read. I did in fact, read all the content on the page from the Knowledgebase link I posted. I know the guidelines, I’ve read them. Thanks. You’re seriously just trolling now.  🙄🤦🏻‍♂️

 

That's a funny thing, calling someone a "troll" because they disagree with you 🤔

[davidventer]

1 hour ago, belindacarson said:

That's a funny thing, calling someone a "troll" because they disagree with you 🤔

Disagree with what exactly? I posted a link for the purpose of sharing its contents. They then quoted the contents, at me, as if I haven’t read it. I’m not sure what disagreement you’re referring to? Not to mention, I’ve “Liked” some of their previous responses, because we are in agreement.   🤷🏻‍♂️😂 

I was kicked/banned from a "normal" event/music location, with nothing drug/violence/sex-related in sight, simply because it was on an adult-rated region, even though I AM an adult, mistaken for a "child" due to life-sized height. "Child" avatars ARE allowed in that location, they're just apparently not welcome due to ignorant or paranoid venue owners using LL Guidelines (that they clearly didn't even read) as an excuse for their discrimination.

Edited December 23, 2021 by davidventer

[bigmoe Whitfield]

my alt is 4 foot 11, she's a smaller version of basically what my forum image is.  but it's clearly stated she's in her 40's, she is an adult, she is not a child.   I still get issues form time to time.   

[Silent Mistwalker]

9 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Picked my daughter up from High School this afternoon, I pointed at one of the young ladies who was dressed well, no backpack and asked "Is that one of the new teachers aides?" She looked at me and said deadpan, "That's one of the freshmen, she's 14."
I would have sworn on a stack of bibles she was over 25.  Looks can be very deceiving.  And then you have the ones that look like extras from a Cardi B video... 

Looks can be deceiving yes, but I'm not talking about looks. I'm talking about being declared a child by height alone and using a security system of some sort to monitor avatar height and kick/ban those who are just barely below average ADULT height for being in a child avatar that is NOT a child avatar. Maitreya doesn't make a child avatar. I can't afford to spend money I don't have on several different mesh bodies, so I have ONE ADULT BODY, not petite, ADULT.

"Mistaking" adult avatars for children based on height alone is just flat-out wrong no matter how you slice it. It reeks of severe paranoia.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[Coffee Pancake]

My avatar is 5'6" in heels .. Which isn't far from my actual RL height.

I don't look like a child.. unless I stand next to an 8' SL avatar .. or outside a linden home .. made for an 8' avatar.

Height in SL has been FUBAR forever, it has zero use as measure of an avatars apparent age.

[Rowan Amore]

There was a club that used to ban shorter women until almost all women became shorter.  They turned it around and started booting people (usually men) for being too tall.  The owner took issue with the height difference more so than the actual height of any specific avatar.   When you're standing next to a woman and she only come up to your bellybutton, that just looks odd especially in a sex club.  So, men got shorter.

[Nick0678]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The owner took issue with the height difference more so than the actual height of any specific avatar.   When you're standing next to a woman and she only come up to your bellybutton, that just looks odd

Yeah well that reminds me of people who say that couples should also have the same skin color, gender, language, religion etc... and how do we call such people?

I 've dated shorter and also taller women IRL, height doesn't mean anything unless you are a basketball player.

[Silent Mistwalker]

10 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Yeah well that reminds me of people who say that couples should also have the same skin color, gender, language, religion etc... and how do we call such people?

I 've dated shorter and also taller women IRL, height doesn't mean anything unless you are a basketball player.

 

As I said earlier, I'm just under 5' 4". Hubby is 6' 3".

Whatever I do, I have to remain cautious when in close contact and remember not to look up too far. I'm really not interested in studying his sinus cavities.