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Once again, it is perfectly ok to play a child avatar


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  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/15/2021 at 6:05 AM, Mindy Metaluna said:

I have been reading the comments, here, about people's perceptions of child avatars. I do feel that most of your perceptions and feelings would probably change if you really got to know a few. This actually is the case with many people I have known over the years. I speak as someone who personally knows hundreds of child avatars and I do interact with dozens of them , at a time, on a regular basis. 

I've never actually encountered any child avatars/roleplayers in SL before, but it actually sounds like a lot of fun especially if there's a whole kid community out there playing on playgrounds and just running around having a good time! Where do you interact with so many? Are you part of a RP school/daycare or something like that? 😮

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Strange world we are living in, were the one who is violating certain terms is protected and those who are the victim of it remain victimized ... 

 

Yeah, sorry to say ... I dj in a place that is set as adult. No matter if you enter that place accompanied with "adult" alts, I will ask you to revert to an adult avatar. If you fail to comply to my request ... I call in the manager to ban you. Period, no discussion about that. That's not that I don't want you to RP your child fantasies, but that is to protect the club from serious troubles with Linden Labs.

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On 12/15/2021 at 4:24 PM, Dorientje Woller said:

Strange world we are living in, were the one who is violating certain terms is protected and those who are the victim of it remain victimized ... 

 

Yeah, sorry to say ... I dj in a place that is set as adult. No matter if you enter that place accompanied with "adult" alts, I will ask you to revert to an adult avatar. If you fail to comply to my request ... I call in the manager to ban you. Period, no discussion about that. That's not that I don't want you to RP your child fantasies, but that is to protect the club from serious troubles with Linden Labs.

What trouble? The fabricated panic scare that exists only in your mind? After 5 pages of this thread and many, many more along the same lines, you're still going to pretend that child avatars are against the ToS? Read it. You're not going to get in trouble because a child avatar TPed to your club unless your patrons start hitting on them.

Edited by HarrisonMcKenzie
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On 9/21/2021 at 6:10 PM, CoraxCorv said:

report them after a few minutes without warning If I notice them lurking on adult places

Just gonna leave this here: Child avatars ARE ALLOWED on Adult regions

Quote

Are child avatars allowed on Adult regions? 

Yes, child avatars (having been verified as being operated by adults in real life) are allowed in adult regions, but the existing rules prohibiting sexual ***** or proximity to sexual content still apply. Since Adult regions by design will often contain sexual content, child avatars should use caution in visiting those areas.

The rules are simple; don't engage in sexual activities as a child avatar. But, reporting or kicking child avatars for being on adult land... that's just ignorance and discrimination, and you're wasting the Linden's time because, they're not going to ban the "child" from Second Life for having been on an adult region. And it's not only child avatars that suffer this fate. Life-sized avatars experience the same kind of discrimination. 

My avatar is life-sized (6'2" - my RL height) which is technically quite tall, but "short" in SL terms, since everyone on here is 8-10ft tall. I also have facial hair, but I've been kicked/banned from places before for being "short" and wearing cartoony t-shirts because "child avatars aren't allowed on adult land"- Newsflash; I'm NOT a child, and even if I were, child avatars ARE allowed on Adult land, provided there's no sexual activity involved. I'm not even using a child avatar but, a child avatar going to a dance club on Adult land would be perfectly okay, as long as it's not a sex club and as long as no one is ****ing in the club. Even if some patrons are dancing practically nude - Nudity in itself is not considered Adult, and is even allowed on Moderate land.

On 12/16/2021 at 1:24 AM, Dorientje Woller said:

Yeah, sorry to say ... I dj in a place that is set as adult. No matter if you enter that place accompanied with "adult" alts, I will ask you to revert to an adult avatar. If you fail to comply to my request ... I call in the manager to ban you. Period, no discussion about that. That's not that I don't want you to RP your child fantasies, but that is to protect the club from serious troubles with Linden Labs.

As long as you're not engaging in sex as a child avatar, you're good to go, child avatars ARE ALLOWED on Adult regions, and anyone reporting or banning a child for simply being a child (where in my case, I'm not even a child, I'm just realistically life-sized) is just ignorant, discriminatory, and paranoid, and should raise more red flags about the person doing the reporting/banning than the “child” that’s getting reported and banned for simply being a "child".

If you see a child and immediately think about sex and want to report/ban them for what’s on YOUR mind, well, guess what, you’re the perv, not them. Take a good look in the mirror. 

Edited by davidventer
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46 minutes ago, davidventer said:

Just gonna leave this here: Child avatars ARE ALLOWED on Adult regions

The rules are simple; don't engage in sexual activities as a child avatar. But, reporting or kicking child avatars for being on adult land... that's just ignorance and discrimination. And it's not only child avatars that suffer this fate. Life-sized avatars get the same kind of discrimination. 

My avatar is life-sized (6'2" - my RL height) which is technically quite tall. I also have facial hair, but I've been kicked/banned from places before for being "short" and wearing cartoony t-shirts because "child avatars aren't allowed on adult land"- Newsflash; I'm NOT a child, and even if I were, child avatars ARE allowed on Adult land, provided there's no sexual activity involved. I'm not even using a child avatar but, a child avatar going to a dance club on Adult land would be perfectly okay, as long as it's not a sex club and as long as no one is ****ing in the club. Even if some patrons are dancing practically nude - Nudity in itself is not considered Adult, and is even allowed on Moderate land.

As long as you're not engaging in sex as a child avatar, you're good to go, child avatars ARE ALLOWED on Adult regions, and anyone reporting or banning a child for simply being a child (where in my case, I'm not even a child, I'm just realistically life-sized) is just ignorant, discrimination, and paranoia, and should raise more red flags about the person doing the reporting/banning than the “child” that’s getting reported and banned for simply being a "child".

If you see a child and immediately think about sex and want to report/ban them for what’s on YOUR mind, well, guess what, you’re the perv, not them. Take a good look in the mirror. 

All of which is true with one caveat.  If an adult region has adult furniture in proximity to child avatars, that's a violation as noted in the official wiki...

Promoting or catering to such behavior or representations violates our Community Standards. For instance, the placement of avatars appearing to represent minors in proximity to "sex beds" or other sexualized graphics, objects, or scripts would violate our Community Standards, as would the placement of sexualized "pose balls" or other content in areas depicting playgrounds or children's spaces.

So, technically, there doesn't need to be sexual activity going on to be a violation.  I live on an adult parcel.  All my furniture is PG.  Child avatars could safely be there.  My skybox has adult furniture.  They should NOT be there.

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1 hour ago, davidventer said:

 

The rules are simple; don't engage in sexual activities as a child avatar. But, reporting or kicking child avatars for being on adult land... that's just ignorance and discrimination, and you're wasting the Linden's time because, they're not going to ban the "child" from Second Life for having been on an adult region. And it's not only child avatars that suffer this fate. Life-sized avatars experience the same kind of discrimination. 

 

And again, i can kick anyone i want from my land for NO reason whatsoever. I agree, dont report them unless they are engaging in activity that is inappropriate. 

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16 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

And again, i can kick anyone i want from my land for NO reason whatsoever.

Correct… no reason necessary…  But the places I got kicked/banned from I was given a reason: “this is an adult sim, no child avatars allowed” - except that they ARE allowed, and I’m not even a child, just short compared to the usual 10ft giants. 😂🤦🏻‍♂️

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On 12/15/2021 at 11:37 PM, LilNosferatu said:

I've never actually encountered any child avatars/roleplayers in SL before,

I think they just tend to keep to themselves and their families because of all the ignorant discrimination in most public places. I mean, I’m not even a child and I’ve experienced such discrimination just because I’m realistically sized and proportioned, I can only imagine that most people playing actual child avatars probably don’t feel very welcome or accepted in most public places, so we rarely see them. 

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3 hours ago, davidventer said:

Correct… no reason necessary…  But the places I got kicked/banned from I was given a reason: “this is an adult sim, no child avatars allowed” - except that they ARE allowed, and I’m not even a child, just short compared to the usual 10ft giants. 😂🤦🏻‍♂️

Where you are making your mistake is the fact the region owners and parcel owners can say "No child avatars" and make it stick. They are within the ToS to do so. Thier land, their rules regardless of region rating.

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1 hour ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Where you are making your mistake is the fact the region owners and parcel owners can say "No child avatars" and make it stick. They are within the ToS to do so. Thier land, their rules regardless of region rating

I know that, but the fact remains that “child” avatars are allowed on adult regions, so using SL TOS as an excuse to discriminate is invalid. If the land owners don’t personally want “child” avatars around, that’s fine, it’s their land; their choice. But many aren’t aware that it’s not against the TOS to have them around. It is allowed. So you have cases of pointless AR’s just from a “child” being on an adult region. Many are using fear of trouble from Linden Lab behind their reasoning, wrongly assuming that Adult-rated regions are completely off-limits to “child” avatars, which is not the case. I don’t think many people actually read the TOS or even look at the Knowledgebase.

Edited by davidventer
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1 hour ago, davidventer said:

I know that, but the fact remains that “child” avatars are allowed on adult regions, so using SL TOS as an excuse to discriminate is invalid. If the land owners don’t personally want “child” avatars around, that’s fine, it’s their land; their choice. But many aren’t aware that it’s not against the TOS to have them around. It is allowed. So you have cases of pointless AR’s just from a “child” being on an adult region. Many are using fear of trouble from Linden Lab behind their reasoning, wrongly assuming that Adult-rated regions are completely off-limits to “child” avatars, which is not the case. I don’t think many people actually read the TOS or even look at the Knowledgebase.

Any region or parcel owner doesn't need to use the ToS as an "excuse" to eject/ban any resident, except for LL employees logged in on their official account, at any time. Linden Lab will not get involved in resident-to-resident disputes. Full stop.

If they are not aware of what is in the ToS that is on them. They chose to not educate themselves. They will get themselves banned if they continue to file false ARs. LL doesn't play around with that.

You know what they say about ASS U ME ing things, don't you? You are assuming any of this is happening when nothing of the sort is.

Edited by Silent Mistwalker
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On 12/16/2021 at 12:24 AM, Dorientje Woller said:

Strange world we are living in, were the one who is violating certain terms is protected and those who are the victim of it remain victimized ... 

 

Yeah, sorry to say ... I dj in a place that is set as adult. No matter if you enter that place accompanied with "adult" alts, I will ask you to revert to an adult avatar. If you fail to comply to my request ... I call in the manager to ban you. Period, no discussion about that. That's not that I don't want you to RP your child fantasies, but that is to protect the club from serious troubles with Linden Labs.

if the club doesn't have any ADULT* activities... very specific... underaged avatars are violating none, geen, no ..(fill in more at will) ..guidelines TOS or other rules in SL.
Just Adult land means nothing.

*] violent or sexual explicit content where they COULD participate or witness

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Landowners can restrict their land how they want.  That's been clarified hundreds of times by support and governance.

Landowners are the ones paying the tier on their bit of second Life so are perfectly correct to want to protect it and themselves.

So if the landowner asks you to leave because they think your Avi is childlike then there's absolutely nothing you can complain about.  There are hundreds of other venues you can go to.

Edited by belindacarson
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2 hours ago, belindacarson said:

Landowners can restrict their land how they want.  That's been clarified hundreds of times by support and governance.

Landowners are the ones paying the tier on their bit of second Life so are perfectly correct to want to protect it and themselves.

So if the landowner asks you to leave because they think your Avi is childlike then there's absolutely nothing you can complain about.  There are hundreds of other venues you can go to.

All true, except the "nothing you can complain about" part. People can complain about any damned thing they want.

What if people want to claim that all landlords who ban child avatars are themselves creepy pedos? Tough.

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2 hours ago, belindacarson said:

Landowners can restrict their land how they want.  That's been clarified hundreds of times by support and governance.

yes totally agree, but that is nót the case here. They try to seek confirmationto be able to ban the non adult avatars in the guidelines and TOS.
And that's big bs.
Simple state non adults are not welcome because they hate them, not trying to make it LL to blame.
 

 

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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38 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

Simple state non adults are not welcome because they hate them, not trying to make it LL to blame.

   Hate is a strong word.

   There are many reasons you might not deem it suitable for child avis to be on your land, same as non-human avatars, or indeed human avatars. There are much too many layers of context required for any given situation to reduce it to 'they hate, I oppressed'. 

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13 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Hate is a strong word.

   There are many reasons you might not deem it suitable for child avis to be on your land, same as non-human avatars, or indeed human avatars. There are much too many layers of context required for any given situation to reduce it to 'they hate, I oppressed'. 

this is the new way the  topic goes now, quoted again..., not the other reasons that got in again.
They hide their real reasons behind a non existing rule in the guidelines /TOS
It is only valid when there are adult activities, not just because it is adult land.
If the point ( a landlord can do what he wants) they simply should state, "get out" and not use the TOS because that'not the case.

On 12/16/2021 at 12:24 AM, Dorientje Woller said:

Strange world we are living in, were the one who is violating certain terms is protected and those who are the victim of it remain victimized ...

Yeah, sorry to say ... I dj in a place that is set as adult. No matter if you enter that place accompanied with "adult" alts, I will ask you to revert to an adult avatar. If you fail to comply to my request ... I call in the manager to ban you. Period, no discussion about that. That's not that I don't want you to RP your child fantasies, but that is to protect the club from serious troubles with Linden Labs.

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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2 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

They hide their real reasons behind a non existing rule in the guidelines /TOS

   If I want to ban all gingers off my land because I don't like the smell of cinnamon (which is a lie, I think it's lovely), that's that. There's nothing to discuss. Oh and, it obviously wasn't discrimination because all I said was that I don't like the smell of cinnamon - and the only 'thing' I did against you was remove you from my property, which is my right to do.

   You're quite free to question why someone would ban people from their land.

   They're quite free to give no response whatsoever.

   That there are people who don't understand (if they even ever read) the TOS or guidelines, who make strange decisions based on hearsay, misunderstandings, and misinformation:

MistyBowedEasternglasslizard-size_restri

   I don't go around whinging about not being allowed at venues that are for women exclusively, I go to places where men are welcome instead. 

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We really don't know what pervy stuff goes on at Dorientje's club. Everybody knows that merely being on Adult rated land would be an uninformed or disingenuous excuse to ban a child avatar, but there's no telling what unholy depravity is hosted there which combined with the mere presence of child avatars would put the club in violation on the "sex furniture" grounds cited above.

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I would prefer not to have children in my store. I mean, there really isnt a reason for one to be there as i sell clothing made for adult bodies. Nothing will fit a child av and if they tried it would look very very wrong. Yes, there is some furniture with adult poses in it. And yes, if there was a child av present, while someone was using said furniture, i would ask the child to either change avs or come back later. If there was a child av present and someone wanted to use said furniture i would ask them to wait till child av left. 

That being said, while child avs can go anywhere in SL, there are places they really have no need to go to. 

What really messes with my head is when they rp as a toddler in a mall, or big store. Then get really really miffed when you ask where their parents are and suggest they go home and wait for them. 

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There is no question at all about this. As @Alwin Alcott and others have stressed, there in NOTHING in the ToS/Guidelines to prevent child (or, for that matter, child-like) avatars being on Adult rated land.

The RL laws relating to the depiction of child pornography, in most European countries, including mine, are far-reaching, with draconian penalties. Internet activity is regularly monitored by the authorities. On the parcel that I am jointly responsible for, facilities for adult activities are provided all over the parcel. The possibility that a child avatar could end up seen or photographed, maybe perhaps only in the background, having just "walked round the corner" and, worse still, published, is not something I am prepared to risk.

Should I hive off a separate parcel for child avatars, with a nursery enviroment perhaps? A primary school etc.? That would keep us safe from any risk. Unfortunately for child avatars, I'm paying for adult space, not that.

Result: No child avatars permitted because I say so.

The ToS/Guidelines are pointless in this respect and should never be given as a reason.

 

Footnote to "realistically-sized" avatars:-

Tread carefully! The height scale given in the Shape Editor bears little resemblance to the general scaling of SL and it is very easy to make yourself appear child-like. Also, having full adult shapings on a small female avatar (particulary if "ample") might be regarded as "sexualising a child image". Do not get grumpy if you are asked to change or leave. 

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In real life I am 5' 3 3/4" and if I make my SL avatar to match my RL height at 5' 4", I get accused of being a child avatar when I have never been a child avatar in the 18 years I've been in SL. My avatar has never even remotely resembled a child and yet, in order to keep the trigger-happy landowners happy, I MUST make my avatar no less than 5' 8".

Most children in RL, 13 and over, are taller than me but I'm punished/penalized for being a little shorter than most people.

You don't want to know what I really think about the discrimination in SL against short people.

So go ahead and ban me now since I won't increase the height of my av from 5' 4" just to convince you I am not a child. I don't want to be around assholes like you anyway. 

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22 minutes ago, Odaks said:

Footnote to "realistically-sized" avatars:-

Tread carefully! The height scale given in the Shape Editor bears little resemblance to the general scaling of SL and it is very easy to make yourself appear child-like. Also, having full adult shapings on a small female avatar (particulary if "ample") might be regarded as "sexualising a child image". Do not get grumpy if you are asked to change or leave.

   All of my avatars are 'realistically-sized', but it'd take a blind moron to think they're children.

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