I can't be the only one who believe SL's Second Rising is not impossible, what do you think? - Strategic Overview

[Drayke Newall]

10 hours ago, Quistess Alpha said:

Seeing as SL has very little content that /isn't/ user-generated:

That is the problem that SL has faced from the start as it was and still is a unique genre of game and those boards do not know how to classify it. It is the same for say Gary's Mod in that it is also not rated.

Now you say that their may be Bias, that may be true but if that was the case and it was found out or even CALLED out by Linden Lab and made public, then there would be hell for Twitch to pay. I would also agree that there are other reasons to not allow SL however it isn't why you think.

Take Gary's Mod (GM). It is the same as second life a user generated content platform and unclassified by ESRB, yet allowed on twitch. This despite the fact that there is just as much adult content on GM as Second Life based on the percentage of players. The difference is LL have actively promoted their adult content and have been lazy in moderating it, GM hasn't. They allow it but that isn't the focus of GM. Second Life it is allowed and the focus. Twitch's guidelines simply state that in user generated content Adult content cannot be the focus. GM allowed SL not.

This also comes down to why many people dont want to play SL (per the OP) - its reputation as the brothel of the internet. Even after they locked adult content away on Zindra they didn't police it and worse yet, removed the locks to get to Zindra. Sure like people have said in this thread 16 year olds can only access G rated sims but that is only IF they say they're 16 at signup. When they locked Adult content on Zindra, you had to provide ID to LL to show your age, LL removed that and set it up like one of those farm stalls on the side of the road. Pay 1 dollar for fruit... we trust you to do the right thing... 🙄

I even remember meeting many a teen on the adult grid (before zindra) when the teen grid was still up, simply because they lied about their age. Apparently despite LL knowing they did this LL never learnt.

Then there is marketplace. Once again tick boxes to dis/allow access to Adult Content. Here's a fun exercise. Logout of marketplace (or search in general) and search for BDSM. What do you see? Straps, collars, leashes, whips, latex, nude figures, boobs, sexulised clothing etc. etc. Pray tell, why is BDSM even allowed to be searched on g rating and not flagged as an unsearchable keyword?

Now, I posted in another thread that LL are Lazy and got hounded for it. Yet here once again in something that HUGELY impacts on LL reputation is lazily ignored with 105 pages of BDSM Adult rated content shown to G Rated minors. 🙄

:EDIT:

BTW it isn't just BDSM, there is a huge amount of what would be classed under ESRB as M17+ or Adult visible on the marketplace to minors under 16 when searched under 'g rating'. I mean, seriously why is erotic art even a visible category under g rated and worse still some visible... just what a g rated person wants to see "Seductive Silhouettes 13". Here you wonder why there may be bias towards SL from twitch.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[Coffee Pancake]

22 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Now you say that their may be Bias, that may be true but if that was the case and it was found out or even CALLED out by Linden Lab and made public, then there would be hell for Twitch to pay.

No there wouldn't .. Twitch says no to Second Life for reasons .. everyone will just nod understanding and fill-in their own blanks. 

SL lets almost everyone in to do almost anything they like, there is something in SL to annoy anyone.

22 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Take Gary's Mod (GM). It is the same as second life a user generated content platform and unclassified by ESRB, yet allowed on twitch. This despite the fact that there is just as much adult content on GM as Second Life based on the percentage of players. The difference is LL have actively promoted their adult content and have been lazy in moderating it, Gary's Mod hasn't. GM ensure it is behind closed doors. They allow it but that isn't the focus of GM. Second Life it is allowed and the focus. Twitch's guidelines simply state that in user generated content Adult content cannot be the focus. GM allowed SL not.

GM is also published by the mighty valve .. one does not simply go against PCMR god emperor Gabe.

Twitch are barely willing to go after soft core porn on there own platform.

22 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

This also comes down to why many people dont want to play SL (per the OP) - its reputation as the brothel of the internet. Even after they locked adult content away on Zindra they didn't police it and worse yet, removed the locks to get to Zindra. Sure like people have said in this thread 16 year olds can only access G rated sims but that is only IF they say they're 16 at signup. When they locked Adult content on Zindra, you had to provide ID to LL to show your age, LL removed that and set it up like one of those farm stalls on the side of the road. Pay 1 dollar for fruit... we trust you to do the right thing... 🙄

The internet has far more mainstream actually hardcore brothels.

There is nothing wrong with that either. No businesses are shunning the internet because smut exists.

22 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

I even remember meeting many a teen on the adult grid (before zindra) when the teen grid was still up, simply because they lied about their age. Apparently despite LL knowing they did this LL never learnt.

Lying about your age works both ways .. I remember lots of fully grown middle aged adults pretending to be under 18.

Anyone can be a 3000 year old vertically challenged half naked dragon in human form on the internet / in a video game.

22 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Then there is marketplace. Once again tick boxes to dis/allow access to Adult Content. Here's a fun exercise. Logout of marketplace (or search in general) and search for BDSM. What do you see? Straps, collars, leashes, whips, latex, nude figures, boobs, skimpy clothing etc. etc. Pray tell, why is BDSM even allowed to be searched on g rating and not flagged as an unsearchable keyword?

Because shiny clothing and collars are not inherently adult .. please remember we live in the same world as hot topic and high street adult stores.

22 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Now, I posted in another thread that LL are Lazy and got hounded for it. Yet here once again in something that HUGELY impacts on LL reputation is lazily ignored with 105 pages of BDSM Adult rated content shown to G Rated minors. 🙄

G rated is not exclusively minors.

[Drayke Newall]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Because shiny clothing and collars are not inherently adult .. please remember we live in the same world as hot topic and high street adult stores.

Right, so lets see, @Rowan Amore flagged a pic that contained an adult pic and wondered why it wasn't removed from the forums. Seems the answer according to you and it seems LL "it is not inherently adult". Thanks for the clarification Coffee. 🙄

From LL maturity rating webpage:"...General is not allowed to advertise or make available content or activity that is sexually explicit, violent, or depicts nudity." 

"Sexually explicit. , in relation to any goods, means goods depicting or portraying the nude human body, or parts thereof, in such a pose or posture that the viewer’s attention or concentration is focused on the female breasts or male or female genital areas which are exposed or provocatively emphasized or both." Sexually explicit Definition | Law Insider

It has nothing to do with being 'shiny' or whether the naked body is exposed or not, it has everything to do with the definition of Sexually explicit i.e. a provocative pose or posture focused on sexual parts of the human body and that they are visible to g rated individuals both as residents of second life and general public.

At the risk of getting banned, but to make my point... so according to you @Coffee Pancake BDSM is acceptable to be searched under g rating (or general public) (definition from LL above and defined legally above) despite it being full of items such as these (this is just a few of many on just the first 5 pages of the 105 pages):

Second Life Marketplace - "Transparent" Suit Mysterious Woman compl.Set Pink BOM

Second Life Marketplace - +Jumpsuit+ camouflage Orange transparent BOM

Second Life Marketplace - Plastic Style+HOT Lingerie Body Dark Green BOM

Second Life Marketplace - .::Arkan::. Sheila Harness + Fitmesh DEMO

Second Life Marketplace - HYPNOSE - CANISSA INITHIUM KUPRA

Second Life Marketplace - AURORA Agata Plastic Lingerie

Here's one from about 2007 Second Life Marketplace - Steel Chastity Marble Belt for Women

Or as per my edit about erotic art:

Second Life Marketplace - [Kres] Seductive Silhouettes - 13

Second Life Marketplace - ^Dejavu^ Couple Art 03

Second Life Marketplace - Erotic Art (3) And Easel

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

G rated is not exclusively minors.

No it isn't, however when any person can search for adult items on marketplace not logged in (general public including 5-10 year olds) and find material that is not general maturity rated as defined legally and by LL itself, then LL do have a obligation to minors irrespective if they use second life or not, especially where everywhere outside of LL and second life users, Second Life is classified as a GAME with NO rating.

That said, as defined by LL G rating is: General regions are areas where you should feel free to say and do things that you would be comfortable saying and doing in front of your grandmother or a grade school class.

Grade School definition: school where children were taught between the ages of five and thirteen

Plain and simply it should not be up to the residents to flag items over and over that are against the mp upload terms, maturity ratings etc. That should be LL responsibility via keyword blocking or proper item moderation. Other companies moderate their own platforms not just leave everything until they get an abuse flag. Why is it that as soon as I say LL are lazy for not doing things other companies do is considered taboo and SL users try to wiggle and weave every possible angle to prove they are not lazy?

Edited September 20, 2021 by Drayke Newall
added a link from 2007

[Rowan Amore]

8 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Right, so lets see, @Rowan Amore flagged a pic that contained an adult pic and wondered why it wasn't removed from the forums. Seems the answer according to you and it seems LL "it is not inherently adult". Thanks for the clarification Coffee. 🙄

From LL maturity rating webpage:"...General is not allowed to advertise or make available content or activity that is sexually explicit, violent, or depicts nudity." 

"Sexually explicit. , in relation to any goods, means goods depicting or portraying the nude human body, or parts thereof, in such a pose or posture that the viewer’s attention or concentration is focused on the female breasts or male or female genital areas which are exposed or provocatively emphasized or both." Sexually explicit Definition | Law Insider

It has nothing to do with being 'shiny' or whether the naked body is exposed or not, it has everything to do with the definition of Sexually explicit i.e. a provocative pose or posture focused on sexual parts of the human body and that they are visible to g rated individuals both as residents of second life and general public.

At the risk of getting banned, but to make my point... so according to you @Coffee Pancake BDSM is acceptable to be searched under g rating (or general public) (definition from LL above and defined legally above) despite it being full of items such as these (this is just a few of many on just the first 5 pages of the 105 pages):

Second Life Marketplace - "Transparent" Suit Mysterious Woman compl.Set Pink BOM

Second Life Marketplace - +Jumpsuit+ camouflage Orange transparent BOM

Second Life Marketplace - Plastic Style+HOT Lingerie Body Dark Green BOM

Second Life Marketplace - .::Arkan::. Sheila Harness + Fitmesh DEMO

Second Life Marketplace - HYPNOSE - CANISSA INITHIUM KUPRA

Second Life Marketplace - AURORA Agata Plastic Lingerie

Or as per my edit about erotic art:

Second Life Marketplace - [Kres] Seductive Silhouettes - 13

Second Life Marketplace - ^Dejavu^ Couple Art 03

Second Life Marketplace - Erotic Art (3) And Easel

No it isn't, however when any person can search for adult items on marketplace not logged in (general public including 5-10 year olds) and find material that is not general maturity rated as defined legally and by LL itself, then LL do have a obligation to minors irrespective if they use second life or not, especially where everywhere outside of LL and second life users, Second Life is classified as a GAME with NO rating.

That said, as defined by LL G rating is: General regions are areas where you should feel free to say and do things that you would be comfortable saying and doing in front of your grandmother or a grade school class.

Grade School definition: school where children were taught between the ages of five and thirteen

Plain and simply it should not be up to the residents to flag items over and over that are against the mp upload terms, maturity ratings etc. That should be LL responsibility via keyword blocking or proper item moderation. Other companies moderate their own platforms not just leave everything until they get an abuse flag. Why is it that as soon as I say LL are lazy for not doing things other companies do is considered taboo and SL users try to wiggle and weave every possible angle to prove they are not lazy?

And just an FYI, even though the mods came in and deleted the 3 trolling threads fairly quick for a Sunday, the fully naked breasts are still there for all to see.  Did anyone else happen to report them after my post?  Are.they still ignoring it?

 

[Drayke Newall]

14 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

And just an FYI, even though the mods came in and deleted the 3 trolling threads fairly quick for a Sunday, the fully naked breasts are still there for all to see.  Did anyone else happen to report them after my post?  Are.they still ignoring it?

 

Its shockingly bad and your link and those I posted need a full explanation from @Linden Lab staff as to why it is still allowed under G rated content and is why I am calling them lazy of late. Is it because there is no CEO and as the saying goes, when the cat's away the mice will play?

It shouldn't even need to be reported by users. LL should have a staff member that browse the Second Life marketplace specifically to remove that content. As far as the forums go, they already have mods that are employed specifically to monitor those kind of posts you linked and even still not only do they ignore it, they move the thread and ignore your reporting of it.

You probably didn't see my edit to that post but I put in a link of something from 2007ish that should have been removed a decade ago from general search. Until LL take moderation and their platform seriously Second Life will stagnate in relation to new users.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[Rowan Amore]

There is an entire 38 pages of erotic furniture in General, too.

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/products/search?search[category_id]=89&search[maturity]=General&search[page]=1&search[per_page]=12

[Drayke Newall]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

There is an entire 38 pages of erotic furniture in General, too.

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/products/search?search[category_id]=89&search[maturity]=General&search[page]=1&search[per_page]=12

Doesn't surprise me at all. I gave up reporting things on MP years ago as it just was never removed and if it was, placed back up again 2 days later under a different name under the same rating.

I think people get stuck up on the oh but the pic isn't adult and fail to realise that being in general means general flagged SL users can buy and use them.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[Alwin Alcott]

44 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

 Is it because there is no CEO and as the saying goes, when the cat's away the mice will play?

It shouldn't even need to be reported by users.

adult content and promotion is around for many years, they simply ignore reports about that unless they are shocked themself.

Imagine your 11 yr old reads here.. sees employment posts, and asks.. mum(dad) what is lovense... are you going to explain that's a adult toy so daddy can play with mum while she is shopping or at work?... insane...

or "camgirls" ... mumm?.... is that a girl that makes selfies?

[Rowan Amore]

I'd also asked about the events page.  Granted, you can't see adult events unless you are logged in and have it set to see those but on their own page where you must agree to the terms to list an event it says...

The event descriptions need to conform to General guidelines, consistent with the overall Second Life website policy - so no overt sex descriptions; sex for money, sex chat, simulated sex, strong violence, or anything else broadly offensive.

Go take a look at the events page. The tags used for one club...I'm sure you'll have to fill in a.lot of blanks.

sex club strippers escorts ***** daddy bachelor party sexy *****s bad girls naughty ***** adult fantasy dom bdsm bondage dominance domination dominated submissive subs fantasies freaks high end gangbang threesomes bimbos bbc interracial cuckold adult baby girl financial domination findom hiring work jobs employment earn milf domme fetish

[Drayke Newall]

47 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

adult content and promotion is around for many years, they simply ignore reports about that unless they are shocked themself.

Hence why I was trying to show to the others in this thread that there are plenty of games allowed on twitch that 'have' adult content it is just moderated and not the focus; and that LL (and by extension SL) has a really, really bad rep as far as Adult content moderation goes. Hence any bias received from twitch or even steam where, shock horror, it isn't even allowed on DESPITE other adult games being fair game on steam is deserved based on their community guidelines.

Apparently however, despite LL's lazy attitude to it, it isn't LL's or SL's fault (according to certain SL users) but twitch's fault. But.. but.. Gary's Mod is owned by steam so they get preferential treatment... they claim.🙄

Edited September 20, 2021 by Drayke Newall
grammar

[Drayke Newall]

8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I'd also asked about the events page.  Granted, you can't see adult events unless you are logged in and have it set to see those but on their own page where you must agree to the terms to list an event it says...

The event descriptions need to conform to General guidelines, consistent with the overall Second Life website policy - so no overt sex descriptions; sex for money, sex chat, simulated sex, strong violence, or anything else broadly offensive.

Go take a look at the events page. The tags used for one club...I'm sure you'll have to fill in a.lot of blanks.

sex club strippers escorts ***** daddy bachelor party sexy *****s bad girls naughty ***** adult fantasy dom bdsm bondage dominance domination dominated submissive subs fantasies freaks high end gangbang threesomes bimbos bbc interracial cuckold adult baby girl financial domination findom hiring work jobs employment earn milf domme fetish

[Akane Nacht]

1 hour ago, Alwin Alcott said:

Imagine your 11 yr old reads here.. sees employment posts, and asks.. mum(dad) what is lovense... are you going to explain that's a adult toy so daddy can play with mum while she is shopping or at work?... insane...

I had no idea what that was so googled it. Aiyo... S'pore based. On behalf of my countrymen i am ashamed (but not terribly surprised) 😅

[ChinRey]

13 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

But we should stop dreaming that SL will ever become more than what it is now.

Dreaming is always allowed.

[Coffee Pancake]

10 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

There is an entire 38 pages of erotic furniture in General, too.

 

If I had to guess, maybe it's because a chair or a padded room without an avatar to give it context are just a chair and a padded room (etc etc). Same as a toddler avatar on A rated land.

Yes, there is content that is incorrectly categorized. That will always happen and in the grand scheme of things probably isn't a super high priority. There are only so many hours in the day and more immediate pressing concerns.

Calling LL staff lazy is however the least effective way to motivate the outcomes you want to see, especially when dragging what is essentially a meta thread off the rails to do it. 

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

If I had to guess, maybe it's because a chair or a padded room without an avatar to give it context are just a chair and a padded room (etc etc). Same as a toddler avatar on A rated land.

Yes, there is content that is incorrectly categorized. That will always happen and in the grand scheme of things probably isn't a super high priority. There are only so many hours in the day and more immediate pressing concerns.

Calling LL staff lazy is however the least effective way to motivate the outcomes you want to see, especially when dragging what is essentially a meta thread off the rails to do it. 

I haven't called them lazy.  However, having a simple thing such as the post I've reported on the forums ignored and allowed to remain even when they've obviously come in on the weekend to delete several offensive posts, is unacceptable.  It makes me think that some employees do not even understand LL's rules themselves.  The forums must be General in nature even in the Adult section which is readable by anyone with an account.  Logged in or not.  If they, themselves, aren't following their own rules, why would anyone else?  Events must be General and not contain offensive language or pictures.  It says so in THEIR own words yet is ignored repeatedly.  Either change the rules or don't bother having any.  It sends a bad message to users.

[PixelBerry]

What if they "hired" users who have time and doesn't mind getting paid in lindens to do marketplace check up on wrong tagged items?

They are not losing money that way, they will also give someone something to do, and maybe make the marketplace a tiny bit better when it comes to that.

Actually... never mind that would be stupid, if that ended up in the wrong hands :U

[Coffee Pancake]

47 minutes ago, PixelBerry said:

What if they "hired" users who have time and doesn't mind getting paid in lindens to do marketplace check up on wrong tagged items?

They are not losing money that way, they will also give someone something to do, and maybe make the marketplace a tiny bit better when it comes to that.

Actually... never mind that would be stupid, if that ended up in the wrong hands :U

Every attempt to create super residents has ended in abuse of some kind.

Although that is primarily a management issue, there is no reason why (t use the SLM as example) a list of flagged listings couldn't be presented to resident mods, who then check and vote on a non destructive course of action as it applies to the rules (eg, change category or maturity rating etc), and once its gotten sufficient votes it goes onto a priority list of pre-vetted actions for a linden to perform.

[Silent Mistwalker]

23 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Every attempt to create super residents has ended in abuse of some kind.

Although that is primarily a management issue, there is no reason why (t use the SLM as example) a list of flagged listings couldn't be presented to resident mods, who then check and vote on a non destructive course of action as it applies to the rules (eg, change category or maturity rating etc), and once its gotten sufficient votes it goes onto a priority list of pre-vetted actions for a linden to perform.

And then...

 

the monkey flips the switch.

🤭

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

And then...

 

the monkey flips the switch.

🤭

Confession .. I actually enjoyed that movie. It set out to be a dumb campy space romp and it delivered. Shame some of the early CGI work doesn't stand up so well today.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Confession .. I actually enjoyed that movie. It set out to be a dumb campy space romp and it delivered. Shame some of the early CGI work doesn't stand up so well today.

I loved it!

Of course, I watched the original series when I was a kid before it got real campy. 😄

[Drayke Newall]

11 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

If I had to guess, maybe it's because a chair or a padded room without an avatar to give it context are just a chair and a padded room (etc etc). Same as a toddler avatar on A rated land.

You have missed the point again Coffee. It isn't about it being just a chair or just a padded room it is the fact that LL rules state that adult content cannot be sold or advertised to G rated users of second life and content must be G rated to the public. Whether it has an avatar or a picture to give it context isn't the issue here. Rules are rules and LL need to follow them as well to set an example.

The issue is that those adult furniture items going back to 2007ish are listed in an general rating and therefore are available for general rated users to buy and interact with. The issue is that those BDSM or Erotic art items I linked going back to 2007 would be clearly considered 'pron' on any other internet site or platform and yet LL quite wilfully allow such things not only to a general rating but to the general public.

It is that their inactivity on such things shows a clear disregard for their own rules. If they dont follow their own rules, what's the point of AR's or flagging or users following them?

11 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Yes, there is content that is incorrectly categorized. That will always happen and in the grand scheme of things probably isn't a super high priority. There are only so many hours in the day and more immediate pressing concerns.

It should be a high priority if LL want to actually improve on its reputation to help garner new users, be part of the metaverse etc. You say there isn't enough hours in the day for them to do this? That is just a cop out and you know it. 🙄

Here's an idea that would take them LITERALLY one day to do. Change the website code of the Marketplace to not show EROTIC or BDSM categories on general or when logged out. Oh but wait, according to you they are SO busy they cant even do such a simple change to their own website that would resolve the issue immediately.

11 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Calling LL staff lazy is however the least effective way to motivate the outcomes you want to see, especially when dragging what is essentially a meta thread off the rails to do it. 

No, I was the one that called LL lazy not Rowan and you say it is the least effective way. Then how do you propose to motivate them to do such moderation? Clearly AR's, flagging on MP, messaging LL directly or tagging them in forum posts about it doesn't work. I even highlighted these issues to them on their 2 MP feedback requests they made many years ago yet that didn't even work.

Additionally, you say that talking about these issues in a thread like this is taking it 'off the rails' where is your evidence of such? It is beneficial for them to be highlighted to LL regarding their position in the metaverse.

From the OP:

"There are pathways for Second Life to play an important role in the upcoming Metaverse future
Development and cost-effective surgical rebranding plus change of user experience can be done,"

Moderating content directly plays a part in the user experience, rebranding (its reputation) and IS a pathway for Second Life to play a role in the Metaverse. Without proper rating moderation Second Life will never be a part of the metaverse as it simply lacks the controls needed to put itself in that position. Even if it is a segmented metaverse where each 'verse' is separate (i.e. facebook, epic, linden lab, steam etc), no one would want to be advertised alongside a company that has 'pron' visible to general public and their shared users.

Why do you think LL and SL aren't shown in such meetings or discussions? They have more experience than any of those companies combined in virtual metaverse's with even fortnite's tech being inspired by SL, yet LL and SL are notably absent. And no it isn't because the other's are bias or because Second Life has Adult Content. It is because of LL's and SL's reputation that needs rebranding and to do that moderation plays a key role.

The argument about twitch is EQUALLY relevant to the topic as twitch is one of the advertising tools that is part of a metaverse. LL's non presence on there needs to be fixed and based on what Lindens have said they are looking at trying to get added to twitch. Pointing out these kind of moderation issues will help that happen.

Sorry for the long post but it gets frustrating when you bring strawman arguments to discussions that ARE relevant to the topic at hand.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[Moondira]

19 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

You have missed the point again Coffee. It isn't about it being just a chair or just a padded room it is the fact that LL rules state that adult content cannot be sold or advertised to G rated users of second life and content must be G rated to the public. Whether it has an avatar or a picture to give it context isn't the issue here. Rules are rules and LL need to follow them as well to set an example.

The issue is that those adult furniture items going back to 2007ish are listed in an general rating and therefore are available for general rated users to buy and interact with. The issue is that those BDSM or Erotic art items I linked going back to 2007 would be clearly considered 'pron' on any other internet site or platform and yet LL quite wilfully allow such things not only to a general rating but to the general public.

It is that their inactivity on such things shows a clear disregard for their own rules. If they dont follow their own rules, what's the point of AR's or flagging or users following them?

It should be a high priority if LL want to actually improve on its reputation to help garner new users, be part of the metaverse etc. You say there isn't enough hours in the day for them to do this? That is just a cop out and you know it. 🙄

Here's an idea that would take them LITERALLY one day to do. Change the website code of the Marketplace to not show EROTIC or BDSM categories on general or when logged out. Oh but wait, according to you they are SO busy they cant even do such a simple change to their own website that would resolve the issue immediately.

No, I was the one that called LL lazy not Rowan and you say it is the least effective way. Then how do you propose to motivate them to do such moderation? Clearly AR's, flagging on MP, messaging LL directly or tagging them in forum posts about it doesn't work. I even highlighted these issues to them on their 2 MP feedback requests they made many years ago yet that didn't even work.

Additionally, you say that talking about these issues in a thread like this is taking it 'off the rails' where is your evidence of such? It is beneficial for them to be highlighted to LL regarding their position in the metaverse.

From the OP:

"There are pathways for Second Life to play an important role in the upcoming Metaverse future
Development and cost-effective surgical rebranding plus change of user experience can be done,"

Moderating content directly plays a part in the user experience, rebranding (its reputation) and IS a pathway for Second Life to play a role in the Metaverse. Without proper rating moderation Second Life will never be a part of the metaverse as it simply lacks the controls needed to put itself in that position. Even if it is a segmented metaverse where each 'verse' is separate (i.e. facebook, epic, linden lab, steam etc), no one would want to be advertised alongside a company that has 'pron' visible to general public and their shared users.

Why do you think LL and SL aren't shown in such meetings or discussions? They have more experience than any of those companies combined in virtual metaverse's with even fortnite's tech being inspired by SL, yet LL and SL are notably absent. And no it isn't because the other's are bias or because Second Life has Adult Content. It is because of LL's and SL's reputation that needs rebranding and to do that moderation plays a key role.

The argument about twitch is EQUALLY relevant to the topic as twitch is one of the advertising tools that is part of a metaverse. LL's non presence on there needs to be fixed and based on what Lindens have said they are looking at trying to get added to twitch. Pointing out these kind of moderation issues will help that happen.

Sorry for the long post but it gets frustrating when you bring strawman arguments to discussions that ARE relevant to the topic at hand.

Removing Pron will save the day!!!!!   And whip those lazy workers into shape!!!!  ok we got it!!  Thanks for your astute feedback.

[Coffee Pancake]

20 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

It should be a high priority if LL want to actually improve on its reputation to help garner new users, be part of the metaverse etc. You say there isn't enough hours in the day for them to do this? That is just a cop out and you know it. 🙄

It's going to take a lot more than a little house keeping, and I hope you realize the pearl clutchers wont ever be satisfied until LL burn the adult community to the ground and turn this into a sterile ghost town.

The only acceptable virtual world is one with no one in it.

SL will die and a few people will be able to smugly say LL tried, but sadly, SL was just too old and this is for the best.

20 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Here's an idea that would take them LITERALLY one day to do. Change the website code of the Marketplace to not show EROTIC or BDSM categories on general or when logged out. Oh but wait, according to you they are SO busy they cant even do such a simple change to their own website that would resolve the issue immediately.

No, it would just create different edge cases.

20 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

No, I was the one that called LL lazy not Rowan and you say it is the least effective way. Then how do you propose to motivate them to do such moderation? Clearly AR's, flagging on MP, messaging LL directly or tagging them in forum posts about it doesn't work. I even highlighted these issues to them on their 2 MP feedback requests they made many years ago yet that didn't even work.

Take it up with the governance and web user groups.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:User_Groups

 

20 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Additionally, you say that talking about these issues in a thread like this is taking it 'off the rails' where is your evidence of such? It is beneficial for them to be highlighted to LL regarding their position in the metaverse.

Working on the presumption that the relevant Linden staff are lurking in this thread hanging off our every word? Sure.

20 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Moderating content directly plays a part in the user experience,

You don't speak for all users.

20 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

rebranding (its reputation) and IS a pathway for Second Life to play a role in the Metaverse.

We will get a flurry of media attention about how were rebranding and now called ____________. Any such coverage will be sure to include how up in arms the user base are over the change.

Questions about how LL plan to make ________ part of the conversation and take their place at the table will be asked .. and .. oh wait, we're right back here having spent a ton of money reprinting all the stationary with no roadmap or goals or exciting new toys to drive growth.

But I'm sure everyone who's not signing up because of categorization issues on the SLM will be in. so there is that.

20 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Why do you think LL and SL aren't shown in such meetings or discussions?

It's not the pron.

No one gets invited to the conversation, LL have to make the conversation about how they are going to achieve the thing.

Maybe if there was a stated thing to get excited about.

 

[Drayke Newall]

22 minutes ago, Moondira said:

Removing Pron will save the day!!!!!   And whip those lazy workers into shape!!!!  ok we got it!!  Thanks for your astute feedback.

I never said it is the be all and end all fix. I said it would help with one aspect of LL's reputation and their position in the metaverse.

You brought nothing to the discussion relevant to the topic and comments like yours are nothing more than an attempt to derail the thread into a flame.

Congratulations you have shown yourself to be the epitome of a troll.

Oh wait I forgot to add the obligatory !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sammy Huntsman]

The only way SL is gonna ever have a second rising, is if they fix all these dang bugs first. Before they start adding more features and adding more bugs, to their ever long pile of bugs they have to deal with.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Sammy Huntsman