Jump to content

I can't be the only one who believe SL's Second Rising is not impossible, what do you think? - Strategic Overview


lucagrabacr
 Share

You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 909 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Recommended Posts

34 minutes ago, PixelBerry said:

Let's just not forget that there are 16 years old and younger people on Second life,......

and not everyone are into seeing those kinda things and can get scared off per se.

I'm just thinking in a way that would make Second life more inviting for new people in general.

16 year old have more seen in their discovering age than a majority of 50yr olds... they'r not shocked that easely, ánd most just come to SL to discover it..
Indeed.. not everyone wants to see it all the time and everywhere, i'm one of them
It won't make a change for a majority of new people. Unless they'r shocked by every inch of bare skin.

btw .. nudity and most explicit clothes, with exceptions, are  PG/G .. not A

Edited by Alwin Alcott
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

That is the gist of it actually. Notice how what you stated said that "Twitch has officially classified" where as most games have an official ESRB rating to determine the category instead. Due to SL not having that classification Twitch assumes the role of the Rating system and therefore refuses it based on their own guidelines.

From the link I showed "This nonexhaustive list is regularly updated and games may be added/removed in such situations where the status of the official ESRB rating changes or the content of an unrated game changes to bring it within our Community Guidelines".

The non ESRB rating is the main factor with second life. If for instance the ESRB rating for Second Life was M17+ then the game is allowed and the content that is streamed becomes the liability of the streamer and then Twitch's streaming guidelines come into play for the streamer to ensure what is and isn't shown on their stream.

Just as for instance you can download nudity and sex mods for Skyrim, however Skyrim can be streamed just not with those mods.

From Twitches Guidelines on user generated content games:

"User-Generated Sexual In-Game Content

Focusing your broadcast around sexual content or in-game nudity in an otherwise allowed game will result in enforcement action against your Twitch account. When interacting with in-game nudity or sexual content in a permitted game, users may only spend as much time as is required to progress. In addition, users may not engage in simulated sexual activity or erotic roleplay—which includes the specific behaviors listed under Sexually Suggestive Content above—with other players in online games. 

Games that primarily consist of user-generated content, in-game roleplay, or interactions in virtual reality are not exempt from this policy."

The spawning of unwanted content during a stream obviously is a concern but no different to a person playing an MMO which has nudity doing the same or rping in text and action.

:EDIT:

Take VRchat for instance this is Twitches take on AR avatars with regards to that game and nudity:

"VRChat is categorized as a game on Twitch, and in-game virtual reality models are not subject to our policy on Nudity and Attire. This content must still comply with our policy on Nudity and Sexual Content in Embedded Media and Games however, so you may not modify your game to include nudity, or make sexual elements a primary focus of your broadcast."

Also twitch states this:

Prohibited Sexual Games and Game Modifications

"Games featuring nudity, pornography, sex, or sexual violence as a core focus or feature are entirely prohibited"

Is nudity etc SL's core focus or feature? I would say no it is a 'mod' that people buy on a marketplace and add to their game. SL's base game has no nudity in it at all or sexual actions. It is added to the game by users through modification.

This was Twitch’s response to the blog that they were referring to in the article. Basically it is not only because SL is unrated but also because, at least in their view, often sexually explicit. And if you look at the company SL shares in the banned games list you can pretty much get an idea of how Twitch feels about SL. I won’t even list the names here lol it’s that bad. Granted I get the sense some of this is saltiness from former LL employees who now work for Twitch.

 Content in this game is unrated and often sexually explicity, which is content we do not allow on our services.

Edited by Finite
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Finite said:

Content in this game is unrated and often sexually explicity, which is content we do not allow on our services.

1873661871_ReactionHeadBash.gif.75e5bddb33c674ce9bd2a723a7ae90db.gif

That is exactly what I have stated is the reason. Content in the game is UNRATED. If ESRB rated second life M17+ then it would be allowed, no ifs or buts that is what it would be irrespective of what users do in the game. It is the UNRATED nature of second life that is the issue just as that response you posted shows. Now if ESRB rated it adult, then that is entirely different but as it stands Second Life is UNRATED and that is the issue.

All of those games on that page in the link I provided are all UNRATED games. In other words they are not banned because they are adult but because they are UNRATED (and contain adult content) by places like ESRB and therefore Twitch themselves rate them based on their own guidelines.

If ESRB looked at the base game of second life as a social building game with inworld building and sandboxing it would be rated M17+, if that. It is the additional content that is added that is against Twitch's guidelines and therefore banned as they rated it not ESRB.

Let me put it this way, if ESRB rated second life prior to twitch coming to be as M17+ based on its default form, then Twitch would probably allow it with the conditions of other such games (like VRchat I posted earlier) that any sexual activity is not shown. Just like as I mentioned Skyrim is ESRB rated however people CAN make it just as sexually explicit as Second Life is through mods of which technically is what user content is to Second Life.

Having no ESRB rating is probably another reason why SL has issues as far as traction goes per the OP. For example the Teen Grid, even if unrated, would have been allowed on twitch but was discontinued.

Edited by Drayke Newall
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, PixelBerry said:

Such as people dressing very skimpy in a pg sim, people walking around naked in stores, people walking around in bdsm gear and being leashed at stores or any sim that they like, spankers, moaners in pg sims etc. Having pg, mature and adult sims don't really seperate them, which is why I'm wondering why they didn't implement pg, mature and adult tags for objects and clothes, like they did with copy, modify and transfer, that way people wearing adult tagged items can't access a pg or a mature sim for example, or people wearing pg items, or toddler items or being a toddler can't access an adult sim.

If they did, you would be less likely to see lewd stuff in a pg or a mature sim, and would make Second life more streamable among other things, and would actually seperate it better for the people who doesn't want to see those kinda things.

After all 16 year olds can join Second life, and I bet there are people who are younger in it as well, seeing how I was 13 when I first joined Second life in 2007.

It wouldn't be perfect of course, how can Second life tell whenever a person is simply naked, but it would be far better I think that way regardless.

There is NO PG rating in SL.  There is General, which is where anyone 16-17 is restricted to.  Moderate, I've always equated with a PG-13 to R rating in movies.  No one under 18 should even be in those regions anyway.  

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, PixelBerry said:

Such as people dressing very skimpy in a pg sim, people walking around naked in stores, people walking around in bdsm gear and being leashed at stores or any sim that they like, spankers, moaners in pg sims etc. Having pg, mature and adult sims don't really seperate them, which is why I'm wondering why they didn't implement pg, mature and adult tags for objects and clothes, like they did with copy, modify and transfer, that way people wearing adult tagged items can't access a pg or a mature sim for example, or people wearing pg items, or toddler items or being a toddler can't access an adult sim.

You think creators are going to honor that?

What about mod content?

You think Governance is going to evaluate & police all possible incorrectly labeled content?

They can't even delist listings on MP that dozens of people have flagged for keyword spam.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Hey @Linden Lab, lets get a rating (no, i'm being serious, do it)

Seeing as SL has very little content that /isn't/ user-generated:

Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB Game contains user-generated online content and communications that are independent of the rated content of the game itself. This notice was formerly worded as "Game Experience May Change During Online Play".[57]

Edit: then again. . .

https://www.esrb.org/ratings/36804/Roblox+for+Xbox/

Edited by Quistess Alpha
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

perse

Quote
Is it per se or Perse?
 
 
Per se is the phrase to use when you want to refer to a particular thing on its own. It is not this Latin phrase, per se, that is important, but rather the concept it represents. Per se is handy when you need to single out a particular element of a bigger thing.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/per se

Two words, please.

*ducks*

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, PixelBerry said:

Such as people dressing very skimpy in a pg sim, people walking around naked in stores, people walking around in bdsm gear and being leashed at stores or any sim that they like, spankers, moaners in pg sims etc. Having pg, mature and adult sims don't really seperate them, which is why I'm wondering why they didn't implement pg, mature and adult tags for objects and clothes, like they did with copy, modify and transfer, that way people wearing adult tagged items can't access a pg or a mature sim for example, or people wearing pg items, or toddler items or being a toddler can't access an adult sim.

If they did, you would be less likely to see lewd stuff in a pg or a mature sim, and would make Second life more streamable among other things, and would actually seperate it better for the people who doesn't want to see those kinda things.

After all 16 year olds can join Second life, and I bet there are people who are younger in it as well, seeing how I was 13 when I first joined Second life in 2007.

It wouldn't be perfect of course, how can Second life tell whenever a person is simply naked, but it would be far better I think that way regardless.

The coding for this would grind any platform to a stand still. Lag would be a pleasure compared to what you want. And no, I don't have sex in SL. Never have. That isn't why I signed up. 

The system in place does work and it works as expected. The fail is on the part of the residents, not LL. When you can figure out how to get people to cooperate, then you will have the solution. 

You won't find the solution to that in programming. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Quistess Alpha said:

Let's also not forget that they can only access g-rated regions (/not/ 'm') and have a permanent underwear layer stuck on.

Also, anyone 13-15 is restricted to LL specific educational type regions.  I don't believe they can even access standard G rated regions.  They also require parental consent to be allowed into those educational regions and cannot TP anywhere else.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

An 18 years profitable run, is a pretty good score for a game/platform.
Let's enjoy it while it is there. There are still years left in it with these user base numbers.

But we should stop dreaming that SL will ever become more than what it is now.
Sure there are things that can\need to be improved, so that SL can hang on for a longer time.
But if you are dreaming for a platform with other usability and infrastructures than the current SL without displeasing and loosing chunks of the current users...... keep dreaming.
SL oldbies are pretty conservative about the way they want their browser, land and what not to look like.

 

Edited by Sid Nagy
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Also, anyone 13-15 is restricted to LL specific educational type regions.  I don't believe they can even access standard G rated regions.  They also require parental consent to be allowed into those educational regions and cannot TP anywhere else.

Quote

2. ELIGIBILITY TO USE SECOND LIFE

2.1. Age Requirements for Use of Areas of Second Life

Over 19 Users. If you are at least nineteen (19) years of age (and the legal age of majority in your jurisdiction, if greater), then you may access certain areas of Second Life, in accordance with our Skill Gaming Policy.

Over 18 Users. If you are at least eighteen (18) years of age (or the legal age of majority in your jurisdiction, if greater), then you may use any public area of Second Life, in accordance with our Content Guidelines and Maturity Ratings.

Under 18 Users. If you are less than eighteen (18) years of age (or the legal age of majority in your jurisdiction, if greater) and over sixteen (16) years of age, then you may access the General area of Second Life in accordance with our Content Guidelines and Maturity Ratings.

2.2. Second Life Age and/or Location Verification for Moderate, Adult Only, and Skill Gaming.

In order to access Second Life regions or listings designated as "Moderate" or "Adult Only" Content (which Content may be explicitly sexual, intensely violent or otherwise designated as Adult under our Maturity Ratings ("Adult Only Content")), you affirm that you are at least eighteen (18) years of age, or the age of legal majority where you reside if that jurisdiction has an older age of majority. You further agree that as a condition to accessing Moderate and/or Adult Only Second Life, you will submit to account verification as required by Linden, and provide only true and accurate identification documentation to Linden Lab or its third party service providers to verify your age. You further acknowledge that you will comply with our Maturity Ratings, and conduct any activities we have defined as Moderate and/or Adult only within regions designated as Moderate and/or Adult.

 

https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/second-life-terms-and-conditions

Quote

 

Requirements for sponsoring organizations

All organizations serving users under the age of 16 must keep their estates private, with 13-15 year old accounts limited to their estate. Access to the estate by users 16 or older will be at the discretion of the owner of that estate, using estate privacy and whitelist features.

To serve 13-15 year old users, you must limit them to your Second Life estate. To do this, you must:

Use the Registration API.

Have a private region (island) in Second Life.

Bring teens onto this island through your own website.

You can form groups that include teens and IM and exchange objects with teens who come in through your Reg API. However, in this case, these accounts will NOT be able to leave your island and visit other spaces, search within Second Life or purchase from the Marketplace. In this "closed island" model, you can form groups, IM, and exchange objects with them; but all these activities are limited to your island.

 

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Teens_in_Second_Life

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

You think creators are going to honor that?

What about mod content?

You think Governance is going to evaluate & police all possible incorrectly labeled content?

They can't even delist listings on MP that dozens of people have flagged for keyword spam.

 

3 hours ago, Quistess Alpha said:

Let's also not forget that they can only access g-rated regions (/not/ 'm') and have a permanent underwear layer stuck on.

...It was just a suggestion, a stupid one I guess :U Let me just hide back in my cave where I do not get stomped on for giving one.

Splat.

Edited by PixelBerry
  • Haha 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

They don't even police the content on the forums with, even in adult section, should be mostly General in nature.  There has been nudity posted there for days and no one has deleted it yet show a sliver of nipple in the picture section and they pounce on it, no questions asked.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

They don't even police the content on the forums with, even in adult section, should be mostly General in nature.  There has been nudity posted there for days and no one has deleted it yet show a sliver of nipple in the picture section and they pounce on it, no questions asked.

Did you report the thread? That would alert the Mod Squad to take a look at it and take appropriate action if needed or they find it against the rules.

Edited by Kimmi Zehetbauer
Need to learn to spell!
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Still waitin on the mods to approve a hidden post from this morning .... 

You'll be waiting forever unless you message a mod about it. I don't think they even check the hidden posts for approvals, just deletes them without even reading them.

It's easier and quicker to just reword the post a little in a new post. You can usually tell what is causing the post to be hidden. Rewording or using an alternate term takes care of it.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Did you report the thread? That would alert the Mod Squad to take a look at it and take appropriate action if needed or they find it against the rules.

Reported it when it was in the wrong section.  Reported it again when it was moved to the correct section yet the mods didn't even bother looking at the picture?  I was dumbfounded.  Slight nipple peekage in the regular section and they toss it but full on naked breasts are ok in the adult section?  Are they not aware that you don't even need to be logged in to see that?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

1873661871_ReactionHeadBash.gif.75e5bddb33c674ce9bd2a723a7ae90db.gif

That is exactly what I have stated is the reason. Content in the game is UNRATED. If ESRB rated second life M17+ then it would be allowed, no ifs or buts that is what it would be irrespective of what users do in the game. It is the UNRATED nature of second life that is the issue just as that response you posted shows. Now if ESRB rated it adult, then that is entirely different but as it stands Second Life is UNRATED and that is the issue.

All of those games on that page in the link I provided are all UNRATED games. In other words they are not banned because they are adult but because they are UNRATED (and contain adult content) by places like ESRB and therefore Twitch themselves rate them based on their own guidelines.

If ESRB looked at the base game of second life as a social building game with inworld building and sandboxing it would be rated M17+, if that. It is the additional content that is added that is against Twitch's guidelines and therefore banned as they rated it not ESRB.

Let me put it this way, if ESRB rated second life prior to twitch coming to be as M17+ based on its default form, then Twitch would probably allow it with the conditions of other such games (like VRchat I posted earlier) that any sexual activity is not shown. Just like as I mentioned Skyrim is ESRB rated however people CAN make it just as sexually explicit as Second Life is through mods of which technically is what user content is to Second Life.

Having no ESRB rating is probably another reason why SL has issues as far as traction goes per the OP. For example the Teen Grid, even if unrated, would have been allowed on twitch but was discontinued.

Hi, I am not sure what the head banging is for. I was agreeing with you for the most part other than the part where you suggest being unrated is only reason. Even in my quote from Twitch itself you highlight the "Unrated" part while ignoring everything after the "and"... 

13 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:
  14 hours ago, Finite said:

Content in this game is unrated and often sexually explicity, which is content we do not allow on our services.

Above is a quote from Twitch said during an interview with the blogger quoted previously. It's not my quote or even my opinion. Basically I am just saying being unrated isn't the only reason since Twitch themselves have stated its because they also feel it's sexually explicit. And in my own opinion because there's some saltiness amongst former LL employees who now work for Twitch.

When looking at the ban list one can clearly see by their names the other games aren't just banned only for being unrated.

https://help.twitch.tv/s/article/list-of-prohibited-games?language=en_US

The only way I ever see Twitch allowing SL rated or not is if there's some Streamer Beware clause where the streamer takes full responsibility for the content that's displayed by them or by some random stream sniper spawning (richards) all over the place.

Edited by Finite
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Finite said:

And in my own opinion because there's some saltiness amongst former LL employees who now work for Twitch.

 

This was distinctly the impression we got after we added twitch api support to catznip and then submitted it for an api key, at the time their excuse was about ownership of on screen content, but it was an obvious excuse all the same .. seems they have since settled on it being unrated .. and should SL jump though that hoop, you can bet they will fall back to smut (which is a bit rich coming from soft core porn central).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 909 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...