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Enough with TIME LIMITED DEMOS


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23 hours ago, Jules Catlyn said:

I make cars and after years of testing several ways to provide demos, for me the best way is the timed demo. It still wont please everybody but it seem the most accepted way for my category of product.I can see the aggravation for clothing and such but i dont see why they would be a bad thing for every product.

I will probably catch criticism for this. I dont really care. I just go what experience has taught me over the years, 

I've only really ever bought one car in SL and it was very similar to my first RL car I bought off my mum for $600Aud. A 1960 VW beetle.
The model with flip out blinkers on the door posts and little brake lights. (the one after the "little back window" model.

The thing about a demo was that I could try it again after a good nights sleep in RL.
It was soooo exciting waking up in RL and remembering I had it in SL.
I ended up buying the full version of course. 😍 

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8 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

It would be funny if that is the case, since it actually makes content theft easier.

If I steal your shirt with "demo" plastered all over it, now I have a shirt with "demo" plastered all over it. I have to develop some texture skills to get rid of the demo texture and make my own.

If I steal your timed demo, now I have a perfectly good product I don't have to edit at all.

That's the thing with these kind of content creators. They dont actually know how 'content' is stolen in Second Life and therefore think they can stop the theft of their content with gimmicks like this.

If they actually knew how content is stolen in Second Life, they would be using the methods that have been around for ages like as you state demo text on the texture or mesh where small irregularities are added etc.

These timed demos are the same as those that argue that charging lindens for a demo or setting actual bought items to 'no mod' stops content theft. None stop content theft at all.

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23 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

That's the thing with these kind of content creators. They dont actually know how 'content' is stolen in Second Life and therefore think they can stop the theft of their content with gimmicks like this.

If they actually knew how content is stolen in Second Life, they would be using the methods that have been around for ages like as you state demo text on the texture or mesh where small irregularities are added etc.

These timed demos are the same as those that argue that charging lindens for a demo or setting actual bought items to 'no mod' stops content theft. None stop content theft at all.

I dunno if demo texture would actually help. Assuming the ripped mesh is going to be fully mod for them since the game thinks they created it. All they need is workable faces and it's likely if they ripped the mesh they probably ripped the texture map as well. Which means they'll be able to edit it in photoshop. Even if you've never used photoshop you could probably learn how to mask out the "demo" text watching a 20min or so youtube video.

From my understanding there isn't a whole lot that can be done to protect content. It can be datamined or ripped directly off the game using certain viewers. They literally only have to see the mesh and it's in their memory. Granted if they're smart enough to do this they're probably pretty good at making their own things so it's likely this doesn't occur as often as people think. And if they're dumb enough to use hacker viewers then you probably don't have to worry since them or their PC probably won't be around for long.

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4 hours ago, Finite said:

I dunno if demo texture would actually help. Assuming the ripped mesh is going to be fully mod for them since the game thinks they created it. All they need is workable faces and it's likely if they ripped the mesh they probably ripped the texture map as well. Which means they'll be able to edit it in photoshop. Even if you've never used photoshop you could probably learn how to mask out the "demo" text watching a 20min or so youtube video.

From my understanding there isn't a whole lot that can be done to protect content. It can be datamined or ripped directly off the game using certain viewers. They literally only have to see the mesh and it's in their memory. Granted if they're smart enough to do this they're probably pretty good at making their own things so it's likely this doesn't occur as often as people think. And if they're dumb enough to use hacker viewers then you probably don't have to worry since them or their PC probably won't be around for long.

Not always. Even in the "hacker" communities, there are viewers you can get that are from... we'll use the word 'reliable' sources. They use a quid pro quo sort of system. They call it "contributing to the community". A lot of the types in that community are happy to provide ripped content to each other, but it's hard to get said content without a viewer you can "trust". So for the sake of the community, they'll actually go to some lengths to make sure they're downloading decently safe viewers.

And even if not, the smarter ones make alt accounts and keep everything fairly disassociated from each other.

While you're right that there's no real way to stop it, those aforementioned types would be deterred a little by a messy demo texture or messy mesh.

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On 8/29/2021 at 9:04 PM, Coffee Pancake said:

Seriously.

Having a demo object that just poofs after a couple of minutes and then demands you return to the vendor to get a fresh demo, most aggravating system ever.

Caught with yer pants down at the disco ?

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On 8/29/2021 at 8:52 PM, Jules Catlyn said:

I make cars and after years of testing several ways to provide demos, for me the best way is the timed demo. It still wont please everybody but it seem the most accepted way for my category of product.I can see the aggravation for clothing and such but i dont see why they would be a bad thing for every product.

I will probably catch criticism for this. I dont really care. I just go what experience has taught me over the years, 

Vehicles are the ONLY product where a timed demo seems reasonable, but even then, there is  a major caveat. The length of the time is extremely important, and some vehicle creators don't realize this. Some people seem to think ten minutes is sufficient, I question whether or not they remember what it is like to try something new, lol. While I, personally, fall under a minority category in this (which I recognize), ten minutes is still rarely sufficient for even the most well versed vehicle handler that I know, lol, but it's the most commonly used time frame that I've seen. 

Me, I'm a terrible driver, admittedly so, and I do love test driving different kinds of vehicles in sl. If the timed demo doesn't last for at least 15 minutes, it's a no go for me (even then, it's pushing my envelope). I need time to ensure I can, somewhat, handle the vehicle (or well, my version of it, which is still terrible, lmao). I need time to check out the options, read any notecards-hopefully the version(s) included with the full product, figure out controls, preferably test in different areas/terrains when at all possible (not a fan of places that will only let me temp rez a vehicle at their store, which has limited space for testing and certainly only one type of terrain...but, I digress, different topic, lol). I would much prefer a vehicle creator give me a few less options, like texture/color differences (if their vehicle has that built in), or lights/particle smoke effects, etc.. and a longer timer, than a shortened timer with full features. Some things aren't nearly as important as others, and vehicle handling, and basic functions are way more important than showing me the array of different textures and colors and other small things it can do. I can be given a few, or limited, textures/colors and still be able to test the creator's ability to make something look awesome. But a shorter timer makes figuring out the ins and outs of vehicle more of a pain in the butt. 

I've seen people that handle vehicles way better than I who struggle to actually test a vehicle with the timers I've seen on some demos, it's part of why some vehicle makers who used to only allow people to rez right there in the location no longer do that, it's too limiting (and more still no longer exist). That doesn't guarantee a lost sale, some folks will buy anyway if they like it enough. I've had that bite me in the behind more than once and have since learned my lesson. My terrible driving is bad enough, I don't need products that don't quite work right (because I couldn't fully test them long enough) on top of it, lol. 

Of course, all creators are free to do as they wish, and if what they choose works for them, that's awesome. I'm not suggesting my way(s) work better, just that they work better for me, as a consumer of vehicles (one of the few things I do purchase and pay attention to, since fashion is pointless, boring and stupid to me, lol). So no criticism really from me, just my own experiences with timed demo vehicles. 

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On 8/30/2021 at 2:52 AM, Jules Catlyn said:

I will probably catch criticism for this. I dont really care. I just go what experience has taught me over the years, 

Not from me. For "drivables", such kind of demo kinda does make sense, unlike for clothing or hair.

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23 hours ago, Finite said:

I dunno if demo texture would actually help. Assuming the ripped mesh is going to be fully mod for them since the game thinks they created it. All they need is workable faces and it's likely if they ripped the mesh they probably ripped the texture map as well. Which means they'll be able to edit it in photoshop. Even if you've never used photoshop you could probably learn how to mask out the "demo" text watching a 20min or so youtube video.

The majority of people I would dare say that do the content ripping are not those proficient in mesh or texture creation. If they were, they would be able to easily make the content themselves instead of going to the trouble and risk of ripping the content only to then try and sell it on MP. There is also the factor of 'time is to worth'.

As to editing the textures to remove the demo text, it comes down to how well done the demo text is. Some well done ones would be near impossible to remove without altering the texture from its original look. As for mesh the same applies.

Sure you will get some people that know how to do it and do it, but you will never stop those people who would be in a very small minority.

These methods like timed demos do absolutely nothing to protect the created content, make it easier for a person to get a full creation as opposed to having to spend time editing it ( a turn off) and only ever impact on the profit those content creators could achieve. To each their own, but, there needs to be some form of education among content creators as to how such systems only negatively impact them and do nothing to stop content theft.

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