[survey] Second Life questionnaire - 5th year thesis study

[Chaser Zaks]

I'll only do a survey "about second Life"  in one of two conditions:

1. You do your research on it and also actually go in-world and experience it for yourself, instead of just dropping a form link on the forums and leaving. 
2. You pay me like the last survey I did.

We see no.1 a lot, which is not enough to do a thesis. Researchers don't research lion behavior without seeing and observing lions first hand.

[Rolig Loon]

13 minutes ago, Chaser Zaks said:

We see no.1 a lot, which is not enough to do a thesis. Researchers don't research lion behavior without seeing and observing lions first hand.

Sadly, this is where I see the real lack of responsibility. A Master's thesis is supposed to be supervised research. I feel some sympathy for a student who puts together a survey like this and doesn't get professional guidance from a faculty advisor before releasing it into the wild. It leaves the student holding the bag for worthless results, having learned nothing about proper research design. This is not the way to prepare future professionals, and it doesn't serve the reputation of the academic program well.

[Drayke Newall]

7 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

What makes this thread even worse for me is that MY state just past a law that students (better put that in quotes) no longer have to prove that they can read, write or do math in order to graduate from HIGH SCHOOL. 

Seriously? What on earth does your state think that is going to achieve other than higher unemployment and higher welfare spending. The mind Boggles.

As to the OP, a thesis requires research on your behalf first, not a lazy attempt at getting others to do your work for you by using a generic survey that shows you dont even know anything about the topic you are researching.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[LittleMe Jewell]

8 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

7 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

What makes this thread even worse for me is that MY state just past a law that students (better put that in quotes) no longer have to prove that they can read, write or do math in order to graduate from HIGH SCHOOL. 

Seriously? What on earth does your state think that is going to achieve other than higher unemployment and higher welfare spending. The mind Boggles.

 

Not totally sure which state Chic lives in, but I read this a couple of weeks ago - about Oregon:

https://www.standingforfreedom.com/2021/08/09/no-child-left-behind-in-the-name-of-equity-oregon-gets-rid-of-math-reading-and-writing-requirements-for-graduation/

 

They claim that it will benefit minorities, though I would think that even the minorities would prefer that they figure out how to properly educate everyone at original high school standards rather than just lower the requirements for everyone.

[Silent Mistwalker]

9 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

 

Not totally sure which state Chic lives in, but I read this a couple of weeks ago - about Oregon:

https://www.standingforfreedom.com/2021/08/09/no-child-left-behind-in-the-name-of-equity-oregon-gets-rid-of-math-reading-and-writing-requirements-for-graduation/

 

They claim that it will benefit minorities, though I would think that even the minorities would prefer that they figure out how to properly educate everyone at original high school standards rather than just lower the requirements for everyone.

 

https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2021R1/Measures/Overview/SB744

[Drayke Newall]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

They claim that it will benefit minorities, though I would think that even the minorities would prefer that they figure out how to properly educate everyone at original high school standards rather than just lower the requirements for everyone.

How does that in any way improve equality? All it is going to mean is minorities that dont know how to read, write or do maths due to this law to be even more disadvantaged when it comes to university and the real world.

Dont get me started on that article linking to an article that encouraging a student to get the right answer in maths is now considered racist (apparently).

I fear for the future USA. The US already has a bad rep in the rest of the world for low education standards of graduates from high school this is just going to add icing to the cake.

[Bree Giffen]

https://thethousand.com/docs/1_Igor_Gazdik_The_Power_of_Stupidity.pdf

[Finite]

On 8/22/2021 at 10:35 PM, Drayke Newall said:

How does that in any way improve equality? All it is going to mean is minorities that dont know how to read, write or do maths due to this law to be even more disadvantaged when it comes to university and the real world.

Dont get me started on that article linking to an article that encouraging a student to get the right answer in maths is now considered racist (apparently).

I fear for the future USA. The US already has a bad rep in the rest of the world for low education standards of graduates from high school this is just going to add icing to the cake.

I am not entirely sure it's to help minorities and not the folks in east Oregon who think they can secede and become part of Idaho (who doesn't want them btw).

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Finite

[ValKalAstra]

14 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I really do NOT understand why these folks (not just the OP) come to SL (maybe for a day - maybe for a week) and expect to  do a thesis on the platform. I mean REALLY? 

In a way I can sort of understand where that is coming from. The research of Virtual Spaces is still a wild west in the social sciences. It lacks the philsophical giants to stand on that other disciplines have (one could argue that maybe Turkle or Link could be that but they both went their odd ways). The result is a mad dash to try and stamp their name on an emerging scientific field. If they can become the next Bourdieu or Weber of Virtual Spaces, the career is set for life.

The quality is befitting of a gold rush mentality and you get such absolute "masterworks all, you can't go wrong" like a decorated researcher claiming Diablo is a virtual metaworld simulation about emergent roleplay. Diablo. This Diablo. https://diablo3.blizzard.com/. On top of that, about 10 years ago or so, Second Life was all you would read about in journals. Second Life this, Metaverse that, Postmodern identity sprinkled in.

So you get an emergent field with opportunities to make a name but no set methods, a corpus of literature filled with at times dubious research but also an utter obsession with Second Life in earlier years - and you get wide-eyed students merrily walking into these pitfalls. As @Rolig Loonsaid, there's a considerable lack of supervision happening here. Because while above may explain why these people constantly pop up with odd ideas to boot - it doesn't explain the methodological failings. Simple survey design and picking the right method for the job should be part and parcel of any social science basic course.

I mean, you probably knew that - I just... got a bit passionate about the topic. Sorry? ^^

 

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

5 hours ago, Finite said:

I am not entirely sure it's to help minorities and not the folks in west Oregon who think they can secede and become part of Idaho (who doesn't want them btw).

You mean east Oregon.

There were a total of 7 counties trying to pull this bs. Idaho, as you said, didn't want them.

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/their-own-private-idaho-5-oregon-counties-back-a-plan-to-secede/

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/20/998660102/oregone-7-oregon-counties-vote-to-back-seceding-so-citizens-can-vote-gop-in-idah

https://www.wweek.com/news/dr-know/2021/06/05/can-we-bribe-the-voters-of-eastern-oregon-to-secede/

https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/more-oregon-counties-vote-to-secede-and-become-part-of-greater-idaho/

https://www.krem.com/article/news/politics/oregon-counties-secede-to-idaho/293-a3e04365-5694-4f5c-b40a-7484072ce96a

Edited August 23, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[Chic Aeon]

Honestly in many ways it makes sense for upper East Oregon to join with Idaho. It is so VERY different than the major population areas -- in thought processes, temperament and likely politics (don't know that for sure).

 

And yes, I am in Oregon down towards the end of the valley.  It might well be noted that our governor is NOT up for reelection next year,  BUT it is definitely a head shaking thing.    I have lived in Oregon most of  my life. Early years in California sometimes and a few years in New Mexico communing with the mesa.  Oregon traditionally is either the first or the last to do something. I sincerely hope that other states don't take this up.

 

I haven't done research but I am pretty sure that Oregon NOW is very close to the bottom of the education charts so perhaps this is just a way to get rated higher.  Again. REALLY???

 

So sad. As if we didn't have enough things to worry about and deal with.   

 

I never had kids, only a surrogate one, but if I would have they would have been home schooled in an aggregate home school group with one parent taking one day.  I did have three home schooled folks in an art class one summer (you had to petition to do that) and they were SO VERY IMPRESSIVE at 13 and melded right in with the old folks that made up much of the class.   

[Coffee Pancake]

We don't allow polls & surveys over on the Second Life subreddit.

There has been more than a few that were borderline fishing trips seeking to identify specific people or communities & data mine users under the guise of an educational project, those that were clearly identifiable as educational in origin often approached with a preconceived bias, other times its lead to users being directly contacted by freakshow daytime tv. (friends don't let friends Jerry Springer)

The Second Life community is not a readily available unique collection of cultural misfits and sexual deviants and it is in our interests to push back against this, there is nothing special or different about Second Life users as a social block other than the commonality of this platform.

In the specific case of this survey ... It's hard to see how 90% of the questions relate to UI/UX 🤔

[Dragon Mommy]

29 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

We don't allow polls & surveys over on the Second Life subreddit.

There has been more than a few that were borderline fishing trips seeking to identify specific people or communities & data mine users under the guise of an educational project, those that were clearly identifiable as educational in origin often approached with a preconceived bias, other times its lead to users being directly contacted by freakshow daytime tv. (friends don't let friends Jerry Springer)

The Second Life community is not a readily available unique collection of cultural misfits and sexual deviants and it is in our interests to push back against this, there is nothing special or different about Second Life users as a social block other than the commonality of this platform.

In the specific case of this survey ... It's hard to see how 90% of the questions relate to UI/UX 🤔

This ^

Fill our surveys at your own risk, folks. 

[Tari Landar]

I don't like most of these threads, primarily because people will come in and question the supervision of the "student", and I think that's a load of horsepoop. A student at this level shouldn't need someone to handhold and coddle them and tell them "this isn't proper research". This isn't a middle school or even high school student, this is a college student, at a high enough level to have some experience under their belt. If anything, less supervision should be necessary at this level, if only to be used as a learning experience teaching the "student" what not to do.

OP has no sl experience, and likely only chose this particular topic because they thought it would be an easy thing to "research" given the fact that there are wikis, blogs, these forums, another forum and plenty of people to do the basic legwork. Not to mention any information collected is done "anonymously"(not really, but I'll let op think so, lol) which means there is no citation(s) to be made other than the most basic. 

In all but one of my degree programs, people have tried to pull these same stunts, tried to write "papers" and "assignments" using these same stunts, and even some that were all about "video games" (mostly sl). I've even had to read and grade some of these, it's not pretty, it NEVER is, and I can easily tell which people actually have no experience, lol. Not a single one of them made any damn sense, none have ever gotten a very good grade, most are actually failing grades. They all lack actual research and come from people who are, well, to be frank, pretty damn lazy, because they thought they could get an easy grade. I would never encourage this kind of behavior in a student, regardless of where they are. Now a student just wanting to better understand the subject(s), but not making it an entire assignment, or worse a thesis, is not a bad thing. But it's only not a bad thing when it's used as PART of something and includes multiple subjects or areas (for example, online behaviors vs offline, online relationships as they relate to offline, etc...) especially with something as important as a thesis, which should be far more vast and encompassing of multiple subjects. 

This isn't likely to bode very well for this student, regardless of how many people answer this horribly put together survey (and I'm not counting the language barrier here, as that has nothing to do with the horrible nature of it), lol. I don't know a single professor or instructor that I have had who would accept this subject material to begin with, because it's too vague and op has no existing knowledge. It's quite likely the student has already been told this and just isn't listening. 

[Rolig Loon]

15 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

I don't like most of these threads, primarily because people will come in and question the supervision of the "student", and I think that's a load of horsepoop. A student at this level shouldn't need someone to handhold and coddle them and tell them "this isn't proper research". This isn't a middle school or even high school student, this is a college student, at a high enough level to have some experience under their belt. If anything, less supervision should be necessary at this level, if only to be used as a learning experience teaching the "student" what not to do.

Having gone through the process of writing graduate theses and then supervising them for a good part of three decades before I retired, I can assure you that supervision is a very important part of graduate education. Grad students are on the brink of becoming professionals.  They need guidance and an occasional nudge to stay focused and to sharpen their analytical skills, and to be sure that they learn how to avoid common pitfalls of research design.  A graduate advisor is a role model and mentor -- often one of the student's earliest and most important professional colleagues. An advisor who takes the role seriously is not only helping to catapult the student into a career but is also helping maintain the standards of the discipline.  Anyone who does not take it seriously is doing a grave disservice to both the student and the field.

[Tari Landar]

2 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

Having gone through the process of writing graduate theses and then supervising them for a good part of three decades before I retired, I can assure you that supervision is a very important part of graduate education. Grad students are on the brink of becoming professionals. 

Some guidance is needed, yes, the amount needed to tell them how to do research, at this particular level, absolutely not. It is doing the student absolutely no favors whatsoever. I both have been and currently am a graduate student (and postgraduate as well). I have also taught and advised them myself, so to expect the level of handholding necessary in order for a student to realize how horrible this kind of "research"(and I use that term as loosely as humanly possible, as it's really not) in a graduate student, is ridiculous. I see it all the time in  students and it only proves to make the entire educational journey even more complicated. It makes me question how the student managed getting this far to begin with (not to mention who let them get this far)

2 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

A graduate advisor is a role model and mentor -- often one of the student's earliest and most important professional colleagues. An advisor who takes the role seriously is not only helping to catapult the student into a career but is also helping maintain the standards of the discipline.  Anyone who does not take it seriously is doing a grave disservice to both the student and the field.

Most students only have advisors if they need them, they aren't there to monitor every single thing the student does. In fact, they are not even called graduate advisors in most places, they are simply called academic advisors and are primarily there to ensure the student does not get his or herself put on academic probation. They are not there to ensure a GRADUATE student knows how to research a topic. They are there to help advise when necessary, but graduate students are rarely encouraged to contact them about everything, as there is some level of expectation already there by the time a student gets that far. 

As I said, I have been responsible for not only grading some of these types of assignments, but also reading through them, and advising students. I have even guided students through these topics, more times than I could possibly count at this point (it's actually a very common topic, especially in IT related courses, which are my primary focus and always have been). I know what the vast majority of students are capable of, and I know what's expected of graduate students. Yes, they need some guidance, but if a graduate student needs to be told how to research a topic and have their hand held through every step, they are not ready to be a graduate student. They are also most definitely not ready to write a thesis on the topic they've chosen. That's not merely me being critical of the individual, which is also a necessary tool for an academic advisor, but also understanding through years of experience precisely how assignments like this often go. There is nothing wrong with a student not being academically ready for something, it just means more work needs to be put in. This is something I, quite often, have to explain to students, and it's rarely ever something anyone wants to hear. 

Undergrad students need far more assistance and guidance than graduate students do. Perhaps we should start setting our expectations a wee bit higher for people "on the brink of becoming professionals". Once they get out there, the handholding and coddling will be minimal, if any exists at all. One major purpose of a thesis is to show that a graduate student does not need the same guidance as an undergraduate student might. That he or she understands not only how to research a topic (whether or nor he or she has any experience or knowledge of it going in) and how to apply what is learned through proper research done. A these should not be reflective of an academic advisor's or even professor's/instructor's ability to walk a well established student through the entire process. 

This is why I do not like seeing people being critical of the advisor/professor/instructor, as at some point, their guidance does need to be minimal. That will allow the student to prove he or she knows what they're actually doing, what they have learned, and that they can continue to take all of that experience and knowledge with them into the real world. If the student isn't ready, then they're just not ready, it's not the end of the world. But sending them out into the world ill-prepared to do much of anything isn't going to help anyone. It's not always reflective on the educator's ability, nor should it be, at least not at this point. Students need to have some personal responsibility and accountability, too. If they need more guidance, it's available, they simply need to go get it, it's not going to jump out at them, though. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Tari Landar

[Rolig Loon]

6 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

Most students only have advisors if they need them, they aren't there to monitor every single thing the student does. In fact, they are not even called graduate advisors in most places, they are simply called academic advisors and are primarily there to ensure the student does not get his or herself put on academic probation. They are not there to ensure a GRADUATE student knows how to research a topic. They are there to help advise when necessary, but graduate students are rarely encouraged to contact them about everything, as there is some level of expectation already there by the time a student gets that far. 

Not at all, and certainly not in any discipline I am familiar with.  As a department chair, dean, and senior administrator, I would have been very critical of any program that did not expect its faculty to take an active role in supervising graduate-level work.  Advising is not a passive responsibility. Any faculty member who expects to make tenure and become a permanent member of the university community must take the active role of graduate supervision seriously.  Any faculty member who gets outside funding for research will also discover quickly that it's hard to maintain a research program and continue her own professional growth without involving students as partners.  Cutting a student loose and expecting her to find her own way into the professional world is irresponsible.

[Luna Bliss]

27 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

Some guidance is needed, yes, the amount needed to tell them how to do research, at this particular level, absolutely not.

Wow, what school are you involved with....Hippy U or Anarchy Academy?  😁😉

It has always been amazing to me just how little those graduating with a 4-year degree actually know, and graduate level students do indeed need ample supervision to attain professional standards. Even post graduates do.

[Tari Landar]

5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Wow, what school are you involved with....Hippy U or Anarchy Academy?  😁

 

Do you actually know what the word anarchy means, or even hippy for that matter? It's sort of evidenced here that you don't. That was also a terrible insult, you should try harder next time. I'm very proud of my degrees, my areas of study, my capabilities, my experiences, and my accomplishments both academically and throughout my years of  employment. I'm sorry you cannot say the same. 

5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

t has always been amazing to me just how little those graduating with a 4-year degree actually know

What you think you know, and what you actually know, are vastly different from one another, clearly. The same can be said of many students, especially those that need their hands held through everything. 

5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

graduate level students do indeed need ample supervision to attain professional standards. Even post graduates do.

As I said, SOME guidance, absolutely, a complete handholding session that points out how to research things, no. There is a difference between offering guidance and support, and expecting an educator to tell you every single thing you need to do, in order to research, at a graduate level. To me, that is indicative of someone not being ready to perform research who needs more help academically (in other words, the need to go back, study harder, and try again), so they can get to the point that they can do some very basic research on a topic. Remember, we're discussing someone here who has no idea HOW to research a topic, has no experience with it, and no knowledge of sl at all. This is not a person being failed by a lack of guidance or supervision, but rather someone who is attempting to write a thesis on the basis that it's going to be an easy grade. I have seen these projects, these topics, these papers, firsthand, they all look quite similar and it never bodes well for the student. It's not a lack of guidance or supervision that makes them so, it's a failing on the part of the student.  Those being critical of this person's guidance, ought to be more critical of this person's capabilities, especially academically, which does not fall entirely on the shoulders of the educators. 

[Tari Landar]

5 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

Not at all, and certainly not in any discipline I am familiar with.  As a department chair, dean, and senior administrator, I would have been very critical of any program that did not expect its faculty to take an active role in supervising graduate-level work

As I said, some supervision and guidance, absolutely, it's always necessary. The level of guidance and supervision, however, should wane somewhat once a student reaches a certain level. Personal responsibility and accountability are as important academically as they are in a place of employment.  How can you expect a graduate student to become professional enough to make it in their field of study, if you don't expect that same level of professionalism to grow throughout their academic journey? That would be like throwing a 6th grade student into the field of immunology after they had one test about the common cold, unlike throwing a graduate student who has studied immunology into the field and expecting them to have more knowledge about the common cold. (expectations are different at different academic levels)

5 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

Any faculty member who gets outside funding for research will also discover quickly that it's hard to maintain a research program and continue her own professional growth without involving students as partners.  Cutting a student loose and expecting her to find her own way into the professional world is irresponsible.

Where did I said anything at all about cutting a student loose? I specifically said some supervision and guidance is necessary. It is not the responsibility of ANY educator at the graduate (and beyond) level to be expected to walk a student through "how to begin your research", there simply aren't enough hours in any given day for an educator to do this with each and every student and it also removes responsibility from the student too. Just as it should not be expected, at that level, for an educator to continue to explain why wikipedia is not an academic source of information. That's something a student should already know and understand at that point. I would expect that any place of higher education would expect their graduate students to know the very basics of how to start, and if they do not, to ask for assistance (which then may call their academic capabilities into question, though). Undergraduate students are far more likely to need more assistance with the beginning steps of research, but graduate students should already have some capability under their belt. How on earth would a student make it to being a graduate student without this knowledge? Perhaps the universities I have attended have higher expectations for students in that they expect them to not only know how to begin, but also how to ask for help should they need it as well. Perhaps they also expect more from graduate (and further) students, as well, than others experienced. I know I have been in classes with students who weren't up to par for the level we were at, and it had nothing to do with a lack of supervision and guidance, but rather that they simply weren't ready. Like I said, it's not the end of the world to not be ready. 

Being an advisor is something I do take seriously, and if I find a student lacking the academic capabilities to be at the level they are, I will do something about it. I have in the past and I have no qualms doing it again. It is not my fault, or my failing that somehow a student managed making it through high school, through an undergraduate program, to a graduate program, and still not know some of the most basic aspects of research. This is indicative of a bigger problem which could mean the student isn't ready for a graduate program, yet, could mean they need additional assistance (both very easy to fix), or as with many assignments and projects concerning this topic, is more indicative of a lazy attitude (which needs to be nipped, but still rests entirely on the student's shoulders if they continue moving forward with it). 

[Maryanne Solo]

I did the survey. Normally I stay away from these but I was curious.
Despite the outcome any benefit will soon be negated when the candidate starts to
live their life according to the indoctrinations of the tutors & institution.

As above in the closing paragraph written by Tari, I find that the age of the candidate is the most limiting factor
and once again, the lack of desire to work HARD to achieve admirable results can be overcome, but wow it's
so emotionally exhausting to guide students along this path for a few years.
I hope to be "done" with assisting students start/end 2022.
That's ten years worth of "best behaviour" & community help from me.  
I have witnessed many many, truly miraculous and incredibly satisfying results in empowering students
but the ongoing cost to my own mental health is too high.

I'm very happy to choose my own path in life, educate myself, (in specialties of no risk) and not have to tolerate the opinions of others.
For any reason. 😛🥳
 

[Rolig Loon]

1 hour ago, Tari Landar said:

Where did I said anything at all about cutting a student loose? I specifically said some supervision and guidance is necessary. It is not the responsibility of ANY educator at the graduate (and beyond) level to be expected to walk a student through "how to begin your research", there simply aren't enough hours in any given day for an educator to do this with each and every student and it also removes responsibility from the student too.

I think we're quibbling about details at this point. I was somewhat overboard by using the term "cutting the student loose" and you, I think, were exaggerating by using the language of "hand holding".  We seem to be in agreement that guidance is necessary and that a student has to take increasing control of her own path toward a degree.  The balance between the advisor's responsibility and the student's is a delicate one.  In my experience, all but a few students need more hands-on guidance near the beginning of a M.S. or PhD program than they do once they are well into their research.  Research design is particularly challenging for anyone who has never done it before, regardless of how much "book knowledge" s/he may have.  It's rarely a matter of intelligence; it's one of experience and confidence.  I would never dream of letting a student embark on a thesis or dissertation without spending long hours thinking it through together.  A novice has too many blind spots and is too easily thrown into panic as unexpected problems happen.  I can't believe that you would ever cut a student loose and tell her to sink or swim. And I don't believe I have ever held a student's hand more than is appropriate to get her feet on the ground and give her a healthy shove.  The advisors who make me nervous -- the ones I had in mind when I wrote my initial post -- are the ones who don't keep a sharp eye on a student's progress and jump in before those inevitable confidence-shattering failures fly out of control.  A grad student is in many ways an apprentice, deserving of professional guidance. In my opinion, the OP should never have released her survey here without first getting a lot more advice from whoever is guiding her.  

[Love Zhaoying]

Good luck, we don't want to see you back here next year! 😹

[LittleMe Jewell]

The OP hasn't returned to this thread since about an hour after the original posting last Friday.  I don't think that bodes well for the survey or resulting paper.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

The OP hasn't returned to this thread since about an hour after the original posting last Friday.  I don't think that bodes well for the survey or resulting paper.

I don't think there will be a thesis on SL. I'm not sure there really was one. I think it was supposed to be about games and gamers. While there are gamers who are residents of SL, SL isn't a game so the student was wasting her time here from the beginning.