Can we have a political sub forum?

[Luna Bliss]

My Political Science teacher defined politics as "who gets what, and how".

This actual thread is more political than most, as its exact goal is an attempt to decide who gets what (a political thread), and how (in what way).

A large percentage of threads on the forum, even when only dealing with SL issues, are an attempt to decide "who gets what, and how".  What is fair, what is just -- is the nature of Politics.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Sid Nagy]

If one wants to discuss politics in connection with SL, rent some land in world, buy a soapbox, place some ads for your events at the right places. climb on you box and there you go.

Politics are becoming so toxic in many places of the world, let's infect these forums as little as possible with that poison.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Sid Nagy

[Luna Bliss]

20 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

If one wants to discuss politics in connection with SL, rent some land in world, buy a soapbox, place some ads for your events at the right places. climb on you box and there you go.

Politics are becoming so toxic in many places of the world, let's infect these forums as little as possible with that poison.

Since politics is "who gets what, and how" you can't really escape political discussion as this is frequently what we're discussing here -- possible attempts to limit adult content in the future, for example. Or attempts to decide if a fee increase is fair.

Whether in SL life or SL life, attempts to decide what is just or fair always enters in. 

It would make more sense to simply prohibit discussion of anything to do with RL on the forum. Unfortunately, RL would always seep into these instances as well,  because what happens in RL is the same dynamic anyone brings to the forum even though discussing SL issues (misogyny, for example. Or entitlement issues. Or on, and on).

I think it better when a topic veers off to what might be considered political by you that you simply scroll on by. You do have that capability don't you...the wherewithal to skip that part of the discussion or move on to a completely different thread?

Edited August 21, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Solar Legion]

... And cue the attempts at rationalization ...

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Since politics is "who gets what, and how"

no sweetiepie... that's what you tried to bring in ... your school teacher, remember, just a few posts ago...

[Velk Kerang]

I noticed mention of some groups in world regarding connecting in terms of social aspects and that would be very correct. The thing to remember is a lot of the groups you see out there are not regulated or ran by actual professionals. I know I vetted several of them over the years. My point being one unregulated section of the forum would make perfect sense. Be it for political topics or otherwise.

In the Star Wars Galaxies community (SWGEmu) you will actually find a locked off section of the forums called The Sarlacc Pit that you have actually look for and sign up for it in order for it to even be visible. This is the gloves off no holds barred section of the forums. The rules are very relaxed to almost non-existent. You have to really cross a serious line in order for someone to step in and break it up. Like threatening somebodies RL or something heavy like that. And if it hits that point you basically out right asked for it.

For people against a section like this I would say this on it. I've been part of that community since day one so we're talking as far back as 2003. I only just opted in that section about a year or so back for some popcorn fun as someone put it. lol So if it's not for you then just don't sign up for it.

So just like everything isn't regulated in world it only makes sense to have at least one unregulated section on the forums. I mean I seriously doubt LL will do it anyway just because somebody will always have something to cry about. They probably don't want to deal with that nonsense. I can't say I blame them in all honesty. lol I'm just simply pointing out the fact that having one wouldn't hurt anything other then those weak peoples feelings who like to push that report button a lot. I'm just saying. lol😎

[Bree Giffen]

I wouldn't want a political forum here. The hard feelings and grudges it would generate would eventually spill over to the rest of the forums. People who don't take part in it would become the victims.

[Velk Kerang]

15 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

I wouldn't want a political forum here. The hard feelings and grudges it would generate would eventually spill over to the rest of the forums. People who don't take part in it would become the victims.

You actually made a very good and valid point. Some people do have issues letting things go. Well said mate.👍😎

[Silent Mistwalker]

9 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

I wouldn't want a political forum here. The hard feelings and grudges it would generate would eventually spill over to the rest of the forums. People who don't take part in it would become the victims.

You haven't noticed that has been going on since the beginning of SL forums? It wasn't over political bs either. 

Well... ok. It was over "SL politics".  

[Chaser Zaks]

I'd prefer not to encourage threads that would just end with residents fighting each other. Case and point: every political thread we have ever had.

Banning politics as a topic would be a better solution, with telling residents to go in-world to locations that welcome it debate politics(see: politics category in destinations guide). This would beneficial in various ways:

1. Place owner can get moderators dedicated to the specific task of moderating those topics.
2. Better for LL's public image, no more possible scaring away residents by making them think the community is toxic or making residents mad by assumed view on something by locking a topic.
3. Voice. (which some prefer, some don't)
4. More in-world engagement.

 

As a retired moderator on a different site, I can tell you having to keep a eye on a specific thread 24/7 and go to bed hoping that the users behave until you get up is not fun and gets tiring really quick. It is especially difficult when I have other things on the forum that need attention, which was always because the report queue would not stay empty for even 10 minutes.

Creating a whole sub forum for it would just be a nightmare for the forum moderators.

When there is a place dedicated to the topic, it is different because it is one thing to keep an eye on and that's what the moderator of said place expects to deal with.

I particularly didn't like to deal with political threads when I was moderating stuff on said different site(no name because advertising,but clarifying because don't want to misrepresent myself as a moderator), because if I did one thing wrong, people would take it as a view or opinion of myself, or worse, the company. So we just outright banned political topics, closed them with "No politics" and hid them away from view. No one could mistake it as a view or opinion, and we didn't have to deal with users fighting. It was a win/win solution.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Chaser Zaks

[CaithLynnSayes]

I'm actually all for this proposal. I'd love to see a political subforum. It's just like OP said, they are popping up occasionally. So why not have a subforum for them and if you don't wanna read them, don't read them.

The reactions to this proposal are sadly typical for 2021. "NO! i don't want that here!" "Take it to reddit, not in SL!" It's pathetic really. Open debate and discussion is healthy and enriching. If you don't want to be part of that, then fine, walk away, it's not for you then. don't read the subforum, but yelling and screaming that you don't want it on "SL" is very narrow minded.

SL does fall under the category social media, doesn't it? Where people come together and talk, right? I think talking about, debating and discussing politics is part of that. If it turns into a catfight then things can be monitored. Isn't that what forum monitors are for?

I find it kind of funny how it's really easy to run into ***** (the word got censored, lol - "sex with animals") in SL if only you visit a few adult sims or have the Adult category ticked on Marketplace and nobody bats an eye but when we want to talk politics, everyone runs around waving their hands in the air like we just murdered a baby unicorn.

Ricky Gevais says it best:

 

PS: There is someone here on the forums (a very active poster) that has a BLM logo as profile picture here on the forums, for years now. I had an "All Lives Matter" logo as my profile picture for a week and it was taken down. Not personally attacking this person with the BLM logo to be absolutely clear. I'm all for freedom of expression and if this person wants to display a logo of an actual racist organisation, fine, thats this person's right. But why did my ALM logo had to be removed. See my point? SL is hilariously selective on this. It's a really long shot of ever getting this subforum, also because the lot of you demonstrated that it is really easy to get you triggered on even the notion of talking politics. Unless you're on the side you "should"*** be.

Edited August 22, 2021 by CaithLynnSayes

[Coffee Pancake]

Ricky Gervais is a professional edge lord so it's no surprise fans of his would want a place here.

There are lots of other places on the internet for that.

What's that? It's no fun being an edge lord without an audience to provoke .. oh such a shame.

Go away.

[CaithLynnSayes]

19 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Ricky Gervais is a professional edge lord so it's no surprise fans of his would want a place here.

There are lots of other places on the internet for that.

What's that? It's no fun being an edge lord without an audience to provoke .. oh such a shame.

Go away.

You completely misunderstood what i've been trying to say. My main point is that we should have a spot on the forums to talk politics and you have the choice not to read it. The clip i chose from Ricky Gevais explains how when someone sees something they don't like to read, to just walk away from it. I don't care if he's an "edgelord", this is not the point, at all. You are missing it. I'm not a "fan" of him, yet you seem perfectly fine to put me in that category. Very telling.

 

Look, i understand you want your "safe space". I'm perfectly fine with that. I'm not trying to be edgy. Please read back what i said in my previous post. hou have such hilariously easy options: don't read it, don't engage in it. Block it if you need to. So simple.

 

I personally don't want to provoke anyone here. I do enjoy a good political discussion. Again, if someone is provoking here, that is what moderators and the report AND the block buttons are for. I really don't see the issue here that so many people seem to make of it. Other then maybe they don't like their ideologies shaken up a bit or challenged? 

Edited August 22, 2021 by CaithLynnSayes

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

Block it if you need to.

Unless LL has enabled the feature very recently, you can't ignore threads on this forum. Makes no sense to me why they don't enable it.

[LittleMe Jewell]

55 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

But if there are people who want to read and talk about politics

Then they should go to the places on the internet that already have such discussions. 

I just can't see a really good reason why the SL forums need to be cluttered with stuff that will almost guaranteed provoke lots of fighting.

Edited August 22, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[CaithLynnSayes]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Then they should go to the places on the internet that already have such discussions. 

I just can't see a really good reason why the SL forums need to be cluttered with stuff that will almost guaranteed provoke lots of fighting.

By that logic, i don't want to read about furries. Should i advocate for that to be banned?

 

OP mentioned that political topics do pop up in the general discussion forums. It's also been mentioned that LL doesn't really close them unless personal attacks occur in them. From what i can tell is that OP's idea was to put those in their own category/subforum. That on its own isn't a bad idea and as an added bonus, it gives everyone who doesn't want to read them, the opportunity to never ever click that subforum and read someone's political opinion.

 

Its happening anyway, so why not put them in their own "box", right?

[Solar Legion]

As stated earlier in the thread: There's already a place for such "discussions" over at an SL Adjacent forum, run by one of the users here.

You want to discuss Politics?

Go there.

It's that simple.

[LittleMe Jewell]

19 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

By that logic, i don't want to read about furries. Should i advocate for that to be banned?

Discussions about furries here in the forums do not 'almost always lead to personal fights', whereas any time something takes a political turn, it does "almost always lead to personal fights'.

Even in a separate forum area, where only those that want to discuss politics read and post, the people will disagree and there will be personal fighting/attacking, and very likely there will be more of it that usual, because the topics are political.  That means more work on LL's part to jump in and moderate the threads.

[Solar Legion]

2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Discussions about furries here in the forums do not 'almost always lead to personal fights', whereas any time something takes a political turn, it does "almost always lead to personal fights'.

Even in a separate forum area, where only those that want to discuss politics read and post, the people will disagree and there will be personal fighting/attacking, and very likely there will be more of it that usual, because the topics are political.  That means more work on LL's part to jump in and moderate the threads.

It also means far more spill over, elsewhere, than we see as it is.

[CaithLynnSayes]

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Discussions about furries here in the forums do not 'almost always lead to personal fights'

Not my point. I just used picked furries as a random subject i'm personally not interested in, pointing out that because i'm not interested in it, should i advocate tot to be banned.

3 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Even in a separate forum area, where only those that want to discuss politics read and post, the people will disagree and there will be personal fighting/attacking, and very likely there will be more of it that usual, because the topics are political.  That means more work on LL's part to jump in and moderate the threads.

So what? 3th time now i'm saying this. That is what moderators are for to enforce set rules. I'm saying like OP said, The political topics do pop up in general, so why not have its own subforum.

This is almost turning into a Monty Python sketch:

 

[Velk Kerang]

7 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

This back and forth between two people, on a tangent, is exactly why we don't need a political forum.  We have enough of that for LL to deal with and a political forum would just result in more of it.

You'll get no argument from me mate. The more I thought about it you all are probably right. What works in one community doesn't always work in another. Realistically@Bree Giffenhad a valid point about it bleeding out. I can see that happening on these forums and really they are toxic enough at times with out any additional help. So ya looking at it from that angle I had to change my vote. lol😎

[Velk Kerang]

3 hours ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

I'm actually all for this proposal. I'd love to see a political subforum. It's just like OP said, they are popping up occasionally. So why not have a subforum for them and if you don't wanna read them, don't read them.

The reactions to this proposal are sadly typical for 2021. "NO! i don't want that here!" "Take it to reddit, not in SL!" It's pathetic really. Open debate and discussion is healthy and enriching. If you don't want to be part of that, then fine, walk away, it's not for you then. don't read the subforum, but yelling and screaming that you don't want it on "SL" is very narrow minded.

SL does fall under the category social media, doesn't it? Where people come together and talk, right? I think talking about, debating and discussing politics is part of that. If it turns into a catfight then things can be monitored. Isn't that what forum monitors are for?

I find it kind of funny how it's really easy to run into ***** (the word got censored, lol - "sex with animals") in SL if only you visit a few adult sims or have the Adult category ticked on Marketplace and nobody bats an eye but when we want to talk politics, everyone runs around waving their hands in the air like we just murdered a baby unicorn.

Ricky Gevais says it best:

 

PS: There is someone here on the forums (a very active poster) that has a BLM logo as profile picture here on the forums, for years now. I had an "All Lives Matter" logo as my profile picture for a week and it was taken down. Not personally attacking this person with the BLM logo to be absolutely clear. I'm all for freedom of expression and if this person wants to display a logo of an actual racist organisation, fine, thats this person's right. But why did my ALM logo had to be removed. See my point? SL is hilariously selective on this. It's a really long shot of ever getting this subforum, also because the lot of you demonstrated that it is really easy to get you triggered on even the notion of talking politics. Unless you're on the side you "should"*** be.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I actually think it would be healthy. Like it was pointed out though it'd bleed in to other sections of the forums because of those people who like to hold grudges. The forums are at times very one sided and toxic as heck and that's on a normal day. Out of every community I've been in these forums are actually the worse. I'm not even kidding on that. A lot of times it's very one sided around here and if you don't fall in line like your some sheep then you basically have a target on your back. So you definitely need a thick skin.👍

More then likely your ALM logo got removed because somebody cried about it or you weren't falling in line and being politically correct with the rest of the herd. lol New people get it the worst. I feel so bad for new people on these forums because more often then not they are met with stupid smart ass remarks. Which is why my visits more often then not are in short bursts. I'll be active one minute and then ghost for several months once the BS meter hits the full mark. lol When it's on empty I return for a refill. lol🤣

I mean it's funny and yet pathetically sad to read some of this stuff that some people say on here because you sit back and think dang so people like you are why the world is in the poop state it is in today. Same people though will be the same ones crying for help when the world goes in diarrhea mode. lol By then it'll be to late. That's some sad stuff. lol Which is why I felt if we had a section where people could take all that noise then maybe it wouldn't be as bad. The reality is it more then likely would be abused and just get worse. If that's even possible. lol😎

Edited August 22, 2021 by Velk Kerang
Corrections.

[Paladin Tyran]

On 8/20/2021 at 2:13 AM, Janet Voxel said:

The genie is out of the bottle. Political threads are going to keep popping up in general.. Locking threads is only going to lead to more saltiness, micro aggressions and little passive aggressive jabs. Wouldn’t it just be better to have them contained in one place that you can choose not to view if you don’t want to? Even better why not make it something you can opt into? That way, you won’t even see the sub forum unless you really wanted to.

We can't even have a quiet discussion about having a sub-forum on politics and you want a discussion about politics?

[Velk Kerang]

7 minutes ago, Paladin Tyran said:

We can't even have a quiet discussion about having a sub-forum on politics and you want a discussion about politics?

I know, right? lol Poor @Janet Voxel. lol Either laughing or probably wishing she hadn't even started this thread. lol Let's get serious here people. Quiet discussion time. lol👍😜😁😂🤣😎👍

Edited August 22, 2021 by Velk Kerang
Corrections.

[Rat Luv]

If people want to argue about politics and not get threads locked, you could go and do it in Forum Polskie...the mods never check there