POWER AND ITS EFFECTS

[Luna Bliss]

18 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

I think I remember that story before. Because I think I mentioned thinking your husband sounds like someone I would get a long with. lol I found that first video hilarious because it reminded me of the first year I got married. One of my first marital issues if we can even call it that, that got solved like a boss. lol😁

We had this neighbor who every time I seen him he always seemed like a nice dude. Back then I had just got my first job working on cars and my wife was telling me that when I was gone to work he'd be over there saying stuff to her complaining and getting nasty and stuff. Now what she was describing to me didn't sound right and I am like you sure it was him? She's said yes and told me it always seems to happen when I am at work.🤦‍♂️

So I didn't say nothing. The next day I woke up and called in a sick day. Wife was looking at me like your not going to work? Surprised because I don't normally call in a sick day. I love my money. lol I was like nah I'm just going to take a pause for the cause. She asks me if I needed anything and I told I just need to rest and I am going to stay right here in the back. Just go up front and do what you normally do. Act like I am not even here. And the way I said it I could tell by her facial expression she knew something was off because I stressed the act like I ain't even here part. lol👍😉

So I'm in the back and bust open the funny papers because that's the most important part of the papers and go in to chill mode. lol I'd say it was about maybe a few hours later there is this banging on the door. None stop banging. I mean the type of banging like there is a serial killer outside the house and the person outside is begging to be let in the of banging except it was that angry banging. lol🤦‍♂️

Terminator mode activated. lol With no pause or skips in my stride I immediately get up and walk at a fast pace towards the door. I see my wife standing up the hall and I say nothing. I just point the way for her to move. I musta had the crazy eyes because she immediately relocated. lol I grab the door handle and sling it open with a nice military drill sergeant type of yell informing him you have lost your forking mind. As this while still in motion. Remember no pause or skips in my stride.👍

Dude about falls over trying to get from me. He gains his balance and actually runs back to his yard as if he is being chased in a horror movie. I'm still walking. Same pace now. No pause or skips in my stride. lol👍

I stop dead on the property line. He's half way already threw his yard about to be in the other neighbors yard. lol He see's I stopped and he stops trying to catch his breath. I inform him if he ever sets foot in my yard again or comes at my wife in the manner of which he did that I will stop at the property line next time.👍

I also made him aware that next time I'd beat his behind with my door he loved to bang on so much and that in the future when dealing with my wife he can send his wife over and the women can hash out any issues between our house holds. And that we WILL be staying out of it.👍

I turned back around and walked right back inside. Told my wife I'm feeling much better now. I think I'll be going back to work tomorrow. lol Let me know if ya have any other issues. Mission accomplished. lol👍😁

That dude never once set foot in the yard again after that and while she seemed to think he was one of those type of men who like to bully women I told her I'm not gonna say he's not, but I'm not entirely sure he is either. The reason I gave for that was because I've heard how his own wife talks to him. It was pretty rough. I want to say I even heard her fussing at him when he went back in his house as I was walking off after that altercation.🤦‍♂️

I don't know if it's a case of dude being what they call a beta male now days and his family jewels are just in his wife's purse or if it's an abusive relationship type of situation or what. I will say I believe his wife sent him over which is why I told my wife that was the reason I let him know to send her over from now on. I think his wife put him in that situation and he almost copped a beating for it so looking at it from that angle I kind of feel bad for dude. lol🤦‍♂️

If out of either of them if I were going to suspect one of being racist it'd definitely be her. Before that he was always real nice, but she'd always give these nasty looks at us if we spoke. I wouldn't be surprised to find out dude snapped on her one day. I couldn't live with someone who talked to me the way she talked to him. In terms of power she definitely had it in that relationship. lol All I can really say is after all these years I hope they grew as people and got their act together.👍😎

Is an interesting story. And I know of incidents where the man was abused by the woman. In fact, this happened to a guy close to me.

I think think one of the worst kinds of abuse levied against men is this attitude that they have to be strong -- that's a lot of responsibility, and lets face it, there are difficult experiences in life that cause us to feel vulnerable and weak, be it with a man or a woman. In addition to having to feel overly-responsible, by not admitting to pain it prevents men from accepting that pain and moving on, and so they stay stuck in it. Dealing with the pain of life is a process, and when men are unable to deal with the grief it causes all kinds of havoc, with a tendency to act out that pain in destructive ways.

However, if a woman is expressing problems with being abused by a man it's best not to bring up the fact that it happens to men too right off the bat, but instead to respond to her abuse first. You do this a lot -- bring up 'the other side' when anybody mentions an injustice. I'm not sure why you do it -- are you in a way trying to defend yourself because you feel blamed as a man?  

Whatever the reason, I believe it's why you have all these women on the forum who are offended by you and call you a misogynist -- you seldom acknowledge their pain or reality but instead insist on bringing up the fact it happens to men too. You have a valid point in that it does happen to men -- but we have to face certain facts about abuse in society -- statistics demonstrate that wayyy more women are murdered by their male partners as opposed to the reverse. I don't remember the difference off the top of my head from a couple of years ago, but it was something like 10 times the amount.

There are ways you could interject your facts and stories (about men being abused by women) that might not cause such defensiveness in others. The key is to acknowledge their reality with empathy before adding your facts and stories.

I don't believe you are a prejudiced person, and I'm simply sharing some ideas that might help you not be perceived as such.

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Velk Kerang]

6 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Is an interesting story. And I know of incidents where the man was abused by the woman. In fact, this happened to a guy close to me.

I think think one of the worst kinds of abuse levied against men is this attitude that they have to be strong -- that's a lot of responsibility, and lets face it, there are difficult experiences in life that cause us to feel vulnerable and weak, be it with a man or a woman. In addition to having to feel overly-responsible, by not admitting to pain it prevents men from accepting that pain and moving on, and so they stay stuck in it. Dealing with the pain of life is a process, and when men are unable to deal with the grief it causes all kinds of havoc, with a tendency to act out that pain in destructive ways.

On this first part. I think part of the issue with how men deal with things is one we are generally hardwired a different way then the ladies so we process things a bit differently per say. The real issue is though is that not enough men have role models in order to teach them how to properly handle and deal with the abuse they've went threw. There is also that stigmata that men should be emotionless creatures and just suck it up and a lot of men try to live up to that. More often then not this is what causes that destructive behavior because it becomes so hardwired and ingrained in to their personalities. As for myself I was lucky enough to be taught at a young age how to handle it and I am pretty sure more often then not those experiences are why I have such an over protective personality for those who can't defend themselves.

6 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

However, if a woman is expressing problems with being abused by a man it's best not to bring up the fact that it happens to men too right off the bat, but instead to respond to her abuse first. You do this a lot -- bring up 'the other side' when anybody mentions an injustice. I'm not sure why you do it -- are you in a way trying to defend yourself because you feel blamed as a man? 

On this part I first want to say I wasn't aware I was doing that. I am sorry to anybody if it came out that way. It certainly didn't seem that way to me and it wasn't meant to be that way. I can't recall a single time someone has told me of their own personal experience where I would have done this. When I generally make comments on this topic it's not because I feel blamed as a man, but rather to point out the fact not every man is a bad as we are made out to be. It's the same conversation I have when discussing race issues. Just because you have a few bad apples it doesn't make that entire group of people bad. That is the message I am trying to convey.

Just like in that experience I shared the first initial impression was that dude was a woman bully. And like I pointed out I personally think there is more to that story causing him to behave the way he behaved. So to me when it comes to certain situations I think looking at it calmly from all angles is crucially important because depending on what the situation is peoples lives can seriously be messed over. So it's imperative to have all the facts. More often then not people are unjustly accused because anger and emotion blind people.

The Bill Cosby case is a prime example of that. I mean if Mr. Cosby who presently maintains his innocence actually did those things then who wouldn't be mad? I think I can safely say we all would be. This is a man who made a career on the embodiment family values. Now I reference this not because I want to debate about Bill, but to point out this was a trial both politically and emotionally motivated, but when I try to look up evidence on the case I only can find allegations.

People who have spoken out to openly support him have been accused of being insensitive to victims of sexual abuse. Well what happened to the sensitivity of victims who have been falsely imprisoned for crimes they didn't commit? I mean the whole purpose of a justice system is to find out the facts. So as an average person from the outside looking in what I am seeing is people are all up in their feelings and not a single one that I've personally seen so far examining facts.

So on a situation like that I would have no opinion until I knew for sure because I believe in innocence until proven guilty. Which is why I believe in having all the information.

So in how it applies to this conversation is I've had bad experiences with women. I'm not going to say all women are bad. That is simply untrue. More often then not though when I respond to similar topics it's because what I read seems to me that it comes from a place of all men are bad and that also is simply untrue.

We do have bad people in this world though and I can totally see how those few people who are responsible for the negative experiences others have had would shape and distort the views of the rest. I just want people to realize that not everybody is a bad and evil POS. On the man side of the house I can honestly say that some of us would more then likely go to jail if we ever got our hands on some of these clowns. REAL TALK. lol👍

 

6 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Whatever the reason, I believe it's why you have all these women on the forum who are offended by you and call you a misogynist -- you seldom acknowledge their pain or reality but instead insist on bringing up the fact it happens to men too. You have a valid point in that it does happen to men -- but we have to face certain facts about abuse in society -- statistics demonstrate that wayyy more women are murdered by their male partners as opposed to the reverse. I don't remember the difference off the top of my head from a couple of years ago, but it was something like 10 times the amount.

There are ways you could interject your facts and stories (about men being abused by women) that might not cause such defensiveness in others. The key is to acknowledge their reality with empathy before adding your facts and stories.

I don't believe you are a prejudiced person, and I'm simply sharing some ideas that might help you not be perceived as such.

 

I admit that I probably articulate myself in a hard way and not so tactful manner at times. It's both a gift and a curse. lol I think part of the issue is my statements are being interpreted incorrectly as I am not acknowledging their pain and reality when the conversation is about the over all issue we happen to be discussing at the time. Now if I say something or share a view and someone takes it personal because of a past experience then I can't be responsible for that because for one I am not aware. If I were that might be a different situation in how I handle my communication with them.

Case in my point my earlier conversation in this thread. The word misogynist was used clearly out of anger and spitefulness. Had no relation to the conversation at hand. More often then not depending on who I am talking to I can already tell anything I say will be wrong. Because I am a man. It's not a my reality, my pain, or even a my truth thing. It's just how it is. People like to use these terms and sayings because it's trendy. I get it. Once upon a time chauvinist was the big word that got thrown around a lot.

I've had conversations on here were I tried to be sweet as pie and respectfully explain my point of view at first and I've had the word mansplaining thrown at me out of the blue with a side order of hostility to boot. So I read stuff like this and think to myself it don't matter what I say to those people because I am already discriminated against because I am a man. Anything I say will be considered and viewed as mansplaining and I can not win for loosing. I lost the minute I said hi. lol I generally look at those people and think that's a YOU problem. That's not a ME problem.

I personally don't have an issue being corrected by women. I get corrected by women in my life on a daily basis from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to sleep. lol I mean ya I am joking a bit, but it has a ring of truth to it so it's not to far off base. lol My Mother for example can utter a single command and stop me dead in my tracks. That's power and it's power she has because she has my complete respect. My brother should be thanking her. lol🤣

You do raise some valid issues I want to address though. First I want to put out there for the record is anyone that took my views and interpreted them for what ever reason as me pooping all over your experiences let me be clear that is so not the case. So to those people I'll apologize and say I am genuinely sorry if that's how your taking it. It is not how I am meaning it. I just want to get that out of the way first for foremost.

On the issues of abuse I believe we need harsher laws because people in general are being murdered at the hands of abusers which is why I am a strong advocate for harsher penalties for these type of crimes. Because I am old school I do hold men to a higher standard on this because we are supposed to be the protectors of our women and children in our communities. So as a man I feel we have a higher accountability for our behavior. A man who terrorizes his own family or anyone for that matter dishonors everything that we as men should stand for.

On your advice I do want to say thank you because I think it is really good advice. Not just for me, but for anybody because more often then not when I make a comment I have no more of an idea on a persons background then they have on mine. So I personally am going to try and be a little more mindful of that in the future.

On your last comment I first want to say thank you for saying that. I would hope that I am not coming off that way. Some times people want to perceive what they want to, but it is never my intent to come off that way. While some conversations may go bad due to personality and obvious differences between each other I think a lot of miscommunication happens sometimes because these conversations are in type. If they were voice conversations on Discord or in world I honestly feel like a lot of them would turn out a lot better then they do because you can get more of a sense on where the person is coming from just by the tone of their voice.

Overall again I just want to say thank you so very much. You've given me some things to think about and consider when trying to express my thoughts in to type out there like that and I do appreciate that. So thank you so very much for that.👍😎

Edited August 15, 2021 by Velk Kerang
Corrections.

[Mollymews]

On 8/15/2021 at 3:09 AM, Elysienne Nebula said:

Technically totalitarianism is any system (specifically system because the ideologies can vary, despite what political partisans will claim) that seeks totality over human social and personal life. Hannah Arendt defines it far better than I could however and she compares and contrasts both the Soviet and 3rd Reich systems as examples of totalitarianism. 

Let's not dilute the definition by implying that imposing rules/norms equals totalitarianism. In the latter, the former can certainly be used as mechanisms to achieve totality, but they're also useful as mechanisms to ensure that rule of law can function in a democracy. It's much like a knife - if you can excuse my analogy. You can use a knife as a weapon and some are made to be that way. But they are also useful tools that have enhanced the lives of billions. 

Velk said that when sufficient numbers of people go beyond the norms that it could lead to the breakdown of the society then a way to try to prevent this is to impose martial law. The implication being that martial law will impose the norms on the society

in its weakest form this would be authoritarianism. Unbridled authoritarianism is totalitarianism

there is some authoritarianism in any society for sure. Thou-shalt-not laws for example. Murder, robbery, etc

when people are just mouthing off about their rights (true rights or presumed rights) then while it can be a little bit annoying sometimes, is a little bit of a reach to impose martial law to get them mouthy people to be quiet

[Velk Kerang]

4 hours ago, Mollymews said:

Velk said that when sufficient numbers of people go beyond the norms that it could lead to the breakdown of the society then a way to try to prevent this is to impose martial law. The implication being that martial law will impose the norms on the society

in its weakest form this would be authoritarianism. Unbridled authoritarianism is totalitarianism

there is some authoritarianism in any society for sure. Thou-shalt-not laws for example. Murder, robbery, etc

when people are just mouthing off about their rights (true rights or presumed rights) then while it can be a little bit annoying sometimes, is a little bit of a reach to impose martial law to get them mouthy people to be quiet

Well my comments on martial law are more about public safety and preservation of life. With having our freedoms and civil rights there comes a certain responsibility. When people exercise their rights in a way that is destructive and dangerous that puts others at risk of harm and/or even death then they forfeit those rights. They don't deserve to have those rights. I personally could care less about their civil rights at that point because they have proven not to care about the rights of others or any value for life. I have no sympathy or tolerance for those type of people. As Arnold Schwarzenegger said, "Screw their rights.".👍😎

Edited August 16, 2021 by Velk Kerang
Corrections.

[Madelaine McMasters]

8 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

Well my comments on martial law are more about public safety and preservation of life.

Here's an overview of the use of martial law around the world...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law#United_States

My extended RL family contains quite a few Second Amendment enthusiasts who proclaim the need for martial law to suppress anarchy. When I ask them why the Second Amendment is so important to them, they say they must be able to protect themselves against the government.

Oh, I do love irony.

[Luna Bliss]

On 8/15/2021 at 6:26 PM, Velk Kerang said:

On this first part. I think part of the issue with how men deal with things is one we are generally hardwired a different way then the ladies so we process things a bit differently per say. The real issue is though is that not enough men have role models in order to teach them how to properly handle and deal with the abuse they've went threw. There is also that stigmata that men should be emotionless creatures and just suck it up and a lot of men try to live up to that. More often then not this is what causes that destructive behavior because it becomes so hardwired and ingrained in to their personalities. As for myself I was lucky enough to be taught at a young age how to handle it and I am pretty sure more often then not those experiences are why I have such an over protective personality for those who can't defend themselves.

On this part I first want to say I wasn't aware I was doing that. I am sorry to anybody if it came out that way. It certainly didn't seem that way to me and it wasn't meant to be that way. I can't recall a single time someone has told me of their own personal experience where I would have done this. When I generally make comments on this topic it's not because I feel blamed as a man, but rather to point out the fact not every man is a bad as we are made out to be. It's the same conversation I have when discussing race issues. Just because you have a few bad apples it doesn't make that entire group of people bad. That is the message I am trying to convey.

Just like in that experience I shared the first initial impression was that dude was a woman bully. And like I pointed out I personally think there is more to that story causing him to behave the way he behaved. So to me when it comes to certain situations I think looking at it calmly from all angles is crucially important because depending on what the situation is peoples lives can seriously be messed over. So it's imperative to have all the facts. More often then not people are unjustly accused because anger and emotion blind people.

The Bill Cosby case is a prime example of that. I mean if Mr. Cosby who presently maintains his innocence actually did those things then who wouldn't be mad? I think I can safely say we all would be. This is a man who made a career on the embodiment family values. Now I reference this not because I want to debate about Bill, but to point out this was a trial both politically and emotionally motivated, but when I try to look up evidence on the case I only can find allegations.

People who have spoken out to openly support him have been accused of being insensitive to victims of sexual abuse. Well what happened to the sensitivity of victims who have been falsely imprisoned for crimes they didn't commit? I mean the whole purpose of a justice system is to find out the facts. So as an average person from the outside looking in what I am seeing is people are all up in their feelings and not a single one that I've personally seen so far examining facts.

So on a situation like that I would have no opinion until I knew for sure because I believe in innocence until proven guilty. Which is why I believe in having all the information.

So in how it applies to this conversation is I've had bad experiences with women. I'm not going to say all women are bad. That is simply untrue. More often then not though when I respond to similar topics it's because what I read seems to me that it comes from a place of all men are bad and that also is simply untrue.

We do have bad people in this world though and I can totally see how those few people who are responsible for the negative experiences others have had would shape and distort the views of the rest. I just want people to realize that not everybody is a bad and evil POS. On the man side of the house I can honestly say that some of us would more then likely go to jail if we ever got our hands on some of these clowns. REAL TALK. lol👍

 

I admit that I probably articulate myself in a hard way and not so tactful manner at times. It's both a gift and a curse. lol I think part of the issue is my statements are being interpreted incorrectly as I am not acknowledging their pain and reality when the conversation is about the over all issue we happen to be discussing at the time. Now if I say something or share a view and someone takes it personal because of a past experience then I can't be responsible for that because for one I am not aware. If I were that might be a different situation in how I handle my communication with them.

Case in my point my earlier conversation in this thread. The word misogynist was used clearly out of anger and spitefulness. Had no relation to the conversation at hand. More often then not depending on who I am talking to I can already tell anything I say will be wrong. Because I am a man. It's not a my reality, my pain, or even a my truth thing. It's just how it is. People like to use these terms and sayings because it's trendy. I get it. Once upon a time chauvinist was the big word that got thrown around a lot.

I've had conversations on here were I tried to be sweet as pie and respectfully explain my point of view at first and I've had the word mansplaining thrown at me out of the blue with a side order of hostility to boot. So I read stuff like this and think to myself it don't matter what I say to those people because I am already discriminated against because I am a man. Anything I say will be considered and viewed as mansplaining and I can not win for loosing. I lost the minute I said hi. lol I generally look at those people and think that's a YOU problem. That's not a ME problem.

I personally don't have an issue being corrected by women. I get corrected by women in my life on a daily basis from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to sleep. lol I mean ya I am joking a bit, but it has a ring of truth to it so it's not to far off base. lol My Mother for example can utter a single command and stop me dead in my tracks. That's power and it's power she has because she has my complete respect. My brother should be thanking her. lol🤣

You do raise some valid issues I want to address though. First I want to put out there for the record is anyone that took my views and interpreted them for what ever reason as me pooping all over your experiences let me be clear that is so not the case. So to those people I'll apologize and say I am genuinely sorry if that's how your taking it. It is not how I am meaning it. I just want to get that out of the way first for foremost.

On the issues of abuse I believe we need harsher laws because people in general are being murdered at the hands of abusers which is why I am a strong advocate for harsher penalties for these type of crimes. Because I am old school I do hold men to a higher standard on this because we are supposed to be the protectors of our women and children in our communities. So as a man I feel we have a higher accountability for our behavior. A man who terrorizes his own family or anyone for that matter dishonors everything that we as men should stand for.

On your advice I do want to say thank you because I think it is really good advice. Not just for me, but for anybody because more often then not when I make a comment I have no more of an idea on a persons background then they have on mine. So I personally am going to try and be a little more mindful of that in the future.

On your last comment I first want to say thank you for saying that. I would hope that I am not coming off that way. Some times people want to perceive what they want to, but it is never my intent to come off that way. While some conversations may go bad due to personality and obvious differences between each other I think a lot of miscommunication happens sometimes because these conversations are in type. If they were voice conversations on Discord or in world I honestly feel like a lot of them would turn out a lot better then they do because you can get more of a sense on where the person is coming from just by the tone of their voice.

Overall again I just want to say thank you so very much. You've given me some things to think about and consider when trying to express my thoughts in to type out there like that and I do appreciate that. So thank you so very much for that.👍😎

Thanks for your heartfelt response...

From the following paragraph I understand better where you're coming from. You said:

"When I generally make comments on this topic it's not because I feel blamed as a man, but rather to point out the fact not every man is a bad as we are made out to be. It's the same conversation I have when discussing race issues. Just because you have a few bad apples it doesn't make that entire group of people bad. That is the message I am trying to convey."

Let me try and paraphrase....you are saying that when you hear people mention issues of sexism or racism that you want them to know not all people are racist or sexist, and this is why you bring up examples from 'the other side' of the issues?

I don't like stereotyping or generalization either, as it creates a black and white scenario with no shades of gray.

When Pixel Sideways said something like "the game development field is a misogynistic cesspool" it does seem on one level like she's saying there's nothing but misogyny there, so I can see why you'd want to bring up examples of women in the industry who are doing fine.  However, I took her comment to mean there's a lot of misogyny there, more than in other fields. If I asked her, I bet she'd say not all men in that industry are misogynists.  What can I say except communication is hard.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

On 8/15/2021 at 6:26 PM, Velk Kerang said:

Case in my point my earlier conversation in this thread. The word misogynist was used clearly out of anger and spitefulness. Had no relation to the conversation at hand. More often then not depending on who I am talking to I can already tell anything I say will be wrong. Because I am a man. It's not a my reality, my pain, or even a my truth thing. It's just how it is. People like to use these terms and sayings because it's trendy. I get it. Once upon a time chauvinist was the big word that got thrown around a lot.

I think they use the terms, misapplying them at times, because they see it as a way to have power now and win fights. What better way to discredit your opponent than to call them a racist and somehow make it stick, right? I'm not sure many of them even care about the people they're pretending to defend, but instead are only trying to win a fight and grabbing on to the means to do so in this day and age.

I don't know what to say about it except there should be a special place in hell for those who are misusing societal power in this way, as they are often making it worse for marginalized groups attempting to empower themselves.

It's such a shame what's happening with these false accusers. Thankfully the awareness has finally broken through in recent years that there has been a sh*tload of misogyny, racism, and homophobia that women, gays, and people of color have been dealing with for years -- it was more hidden in the past but these groups have been bonding together in an attempt to empower themselves and are fighting back with success. Society has become more aware and great strides have been made for people who don't fit the 'norm' or are in the minority.  Playing the 'race card' or any other 'card' is only going to make it worse for the marginalized groups attempting to gain their rightful place of respect in society.

[Luna Bliss]

On 8/15/2021 at 6:26 PM, Velk Kerang said:

The Bill Cosby case.... 

People who have spoken out to openly support him have been accused of being insensitive to victims of sexual abuse.

I haven't really investigated the evidence here so don't have an opinion. I do tend to believe that if many women come forth with allegations that it's more likely true -- not proof, but more likely.

Sometimes an individual becomes a symbol for something in a very strong way (as with Cosby via abuse of women), and when you even mention the other side in their defense you will get labeled as siding with the abuser as it appears to many you don't understand the perspective of the abused if you only speak about the perspective of the supposed abusers side.

All I an say is it's wise to be very careful in these cases -- to become aware of when someone has become a symbol for many in this way.  For example, say I happened into a forum where they were all up in arms about the atrocities committed by Hitler in the Holocaust -- it would not be wise to mention that Hitler appeared to have a sensitive side as he was a painter. lol  Context is everything -- 'reading the room' before you speak is advised, or you will be pummeled no matter how valid your points.

[Velk Kerang]

On 8/16/2021 at 10:57 AM, Madelaine McMasters said:

Here's an overview of the use of martial law around the world...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law#United_States

My extended RL family contains quite a few Second Amendment enthusiasts who proclaim the need for martial law to suppress anarchy. When I ask them why the Second Amendment is so important to them, they say they must be able to protect themselves against the government.

Oh, I do love irony.

I gotta say I absolutely love this statement. Reminds me of some conversations with some of my own family members. lol For me what I said doesn't really come from any political place. More of a place of basic survival. At the end of the day I am for what ever solution accomplishes this. I'm not hard pressed on any one solution. I just don't want people to die. It's just that simple.👍

In truth there are several options they could try before going that far. The problem is they don't. Everybody isn't on the same page. Prime example is the governor of Florida. That dude is a whole hot mess.🤦‍♂️

When this pandemic first broke out because we had little information on it I insisted on playing point man on going out for supplies if anyone in the family needed anything. That way if anyone got sick and died then I would be the one to take that bullet. I'd go out and when I got back I'd confine myself to my room for about two weeks after to make sure people were safe from me. I got a lot of arguments on this from them, but the attitude was I'd rather ya'll be alive and mad at me then dead and liking me. Better to ask forgiveness then permission. So I am totally ok with that decision. lol So at the end of the day I am for what ever keeps people alive.👍😎

5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Thanks for your heartfelt response...

From the following paragraph I understand better where you're coming from. You said:

"When I generally make comments on this topic it's not because I feel blamed as a man, but rather to point out the fact not every man is a bad as we are made out to be. It's the same conversation I have when discussing race issues. Just because you have a few bad apples it doesn't make that entire group of people bad. That is the message I am trying to convey."

Let me try and paraphrase....you are saying that when you hear people mention issues of sexism or racism that you want them to know not all people are racist or sexist, and this is why you bring up examples from 'the other side' of the issues?

I don't like stereotyping or generalize either, as it creates a black and white scenario with no shades of gray.

When Pixel Sideways said something like "the game development field is a misogynistic cesspool" it does seem on one level like she's saying there's nothing but misogyny there, so I can see why you'd want to bring up examples of women in the industry who are doing fine.  However, I took her comment to mean there's a lot of misogyny there, more than in other fields. If I asked her, I bet she'd say not all men there are misogynists.  What can I say except communication is hard.

Your very welcome and thank you. To answer your question that's part of it. It's also because a not all of the times when we examine particular issues and situations it's been my experience that things may not always be what they seem. For example and I'll use my daughter for this one. I got a phone call once back when she was in school. I am told my daughter got in to a fight with a little boy. Now on emotion and how I am traditionally wired my first instinct is to educate this young man on the fine arts of how to treat the little ladies.

Well come to find out my daughter, my little girl threw the first punch. The little boy did what he was supposed to do. He tried to walk away. I can't be mad at him. He followed the rules. Her reason? She didn't like what he was saying. I'm like hmm ok. So that was your excuse. So here I am shaking my head and having to give her the speech of just because you can beat someone up doesn't give you the right to.

Now I've done the whole try to approach her using logic, sensitivity and all that jazz in how as a parent I should try to relate to my girls differently then my boys. On some things my daughters logic is just not our Earth logic. lol So by the third or fourth time I get a call about her fighting boys and actually starting these fights I decided right or wrong this nonsense is about to cease and desist right on the spot.

She comes in already expecting a lecture. I can tell right off the bat. I let her know. I'm going to keep it short and simple this time so there is no more room for miscommunication. I look at her and tell her your trying to be hard. I get it. I let her know today I am making you a promise. The very next phone call I get about you starting fights with boy, girls, and squirrels I'm going to give you a shot at the title. You think you have the right to beat up on people. Well earn it then. Because your going to have to go threw me from now on. Her reaction was priceless. lol Now some time out parents out here may not be a fan of that approach, but I can tell you now that phone never rang again. Not even once. lol👍😁

Now had I not taken the time to see the big picture then I would have been focused on the wrong person and a problem where a problem did not even exist. Because I took that time to take a step back I was able to focus on the real problem at hand. Sometimes you just need to get your own house in order first before you can even worry about someone else's house and how it impacts you.👍

On the comment Pixel Sideways made I took it as a generalized comment of her opinion of that industry. Nothing more and nothing less because there was no real explanation behind that original comment. It was an opinion of which she is entitled to. Mine is obviously different. I really didn't read to far in to it anymore then I would if someone tried to sell me on the concept of white privilege and/or that all white people are bad. I validated and agreed with her in that I am sure such elements exists, but not in the large quantities that generalized statement implies. I do feel like we do have some people out here badly in need of some serious behavioral correction though.👍

 

 

5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think they use the terms, misapplying them at times, because they see it as a way to have power now and win fights. What better way to discredit your opponent than to call them a racist and somehow make it stick, right? I'm not sure many of them even care about the people they're pretending to defend, but instead are only trying to win a fight and grabbing on to the means to do so in this day and age.

I don't know what to say about it except there should be a special place in hell for those who are misusing societal power in this way, as they are often making it worse for marginalized groups attempting to empower themselves.

It's such a shame what's happening with these false accusers. Thankfully the awareness has finally broken through in recent years that there has been a sh*tload of misogyny, racism, and homophobia that women, gays, and people of color have been dealing with for years -- it was more hidden in the past but these groups have been bonding together in an attempt to empower themselves and are fighting back with success. Society has become more aware and great strides have been made for people who don't fit the 'norm' or are in the minority.  Playing the 'race card' or any other 'card' is only going to make it worse for the marginalized groups attempting to gain their rightful place of respect in society.

I agree with what your saying. I however believe society has always been aware of the problems. Some issues I believe have been blown way entirely out of proportion and others are long over due being addressed while some are not addressed at all because they fear the back lash from the public because it may not be politically correct.

The think the methods in some of these solutions are inexcusable. Problems get either ignored or they reach the boiling point and chaos results. Very seldom do I see peaceful resolutions. I'm happy when I do though. For example I made some people mad a while back because I am not an open supporter of BLM. When an organization to me takes it up on themselves to deface and destroy public property, businesses and endanger lives in their own community that is where my support gets lost.

However that having been said when they protest things like in that video I posted then they got my support on that minus the throwing the bottles at the police officers part because that to me is not peaceful. Why they were there I support them in that. The way they behaved I do not support that. I don't care how angry people are that does not give them the right to hurt other people. It's counter productive to what we as a people are trying to stop.

So to me it's imperative we handle these situations the right way otherwise we're just going in circles and history is just repeating itself. I'm to old for all of that. lol🤦‍♂️

4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I haven't really investigated the evidence here so don't have an opinion. I do tend to believe that if many women come forth with allegations that it's more likely true -- not proof, but more likely.

Sometimes an individual becomes a symbol for something in a very strong way (as with Cosby via abuse of women), and when you even mention the other side in their defense you will get labeled as siding with the abuser as it appears to many you don't understand the perspective of the abused if you only speak about the perspective of the supposed abusers side.

All I an say is it's wise to be very careful in these cases -- to become aware of when someone has become a symbol for many in this way.  For example, say I happened into a forum where they were all up in arms about the atrocities committed by Hitler in the Holocaust -- it would not be wise to mention that Hitler appeared to have a sensitive side as he was a painter. lol  Context is everything -- 'reading the room' before you speak is advised, or you will be pummeled no matter how valid your points.

I totally love your analogy. lol Your completely right on reading the room. lol I admit I am guilty of jumping in head first at times. And reading the room is very very important. Case in point I once walked in to a room full of angry women all mad at their husbands and men about something. I have no idea what, but I could feel the tension. The room stopped and all angry eyes on me. I just smiled and was like, "Ladies.", and turned right back around and ran out. Not walked, but ran out. lol Sometimes reading that room is a valid key to the success of self preservation. I'm just saying. lol👍😁

On the Bill Cosby thing I can understand that situation from both sides of the coin in all honesty. I won't go in to details on that because that's a book and a half alone (lol), but I will say from Bills side I know what it is like to be locked up just because someone claimed you did something. The only reason I got released was because I wasn't even in the state when they made their allegations. It is far to easy for a woman to claim a man did something and get his freedom taken away on word of mouth only with no proof. That is where I have a problem with the justice system of America.

On victims side of the house I am sympathetic to victims of abuse in general because I've been down that road. In the case of those ladies not so much, because it is way harder for a man to come out to the world then it is for women and I'm just sorry waiting twenty years or however long to do something about it is BS to me. So saying what they said is true I would ask them point blank. You let other people be abused because you didn't have the guts to put a stop to it? How do you live with yourselves? If it is true they contributed to the abuse by not stopping it in the first place when they had the chance to actually prove it and deserve no sympathy from me. None at all what so ever.

And I am sorry I know to some people that may make me sound like an insensitive jerk, but if I can stop someone if even just one person from going threw what I did then I am going to do it. Consequences be damned.

So like you I don't really have an opinion yet because I just don't see enough facts out there to support the claims other then word of mouth accusations.

I do love your analogy though. I may have to borrow and use that one on some of my mates the next time they try to sucker me in to a political conversation. lol I'll give you credit though. No worries. lol It is permanently stuck in my head now. lol Thank you so very much for that one. lol👍😁😂🤣😎

Edited August 17, 2021 by Velk Kerang
Corrections.

[Elysienne Nebula]

On 8/15/2021 at 8:38 PM, Mollymews said:

Velk said that when sufficient numbers of people go beyond the norms that it could lead to the breakdown of the society then a way to try to prevent this is to impose martial law. The implication being that martial law will impose the norms on the society

in its weakest form this would be authoritarianism. Unbridled authoritarianism is totalitarianism

there is some authoritarianism in any society for sure. Thou-shalt-not laws for example. Murder, robbery, etc

when people are just mouthing off about their rights (true rights or presumed rights) then while it can be a little bit annoying sometimes, is a little bit of a reach to impose martial law to get them mouthy people to be quiet

It depends. One could also see from historical examples that when sufficient numbers of people go beyond norms, societies simply adapt and incorporate the new ways and lifestyles.

In most cases, the general application of martial law simply intensifies resistance. It's not much more than an ego move by government and people who side with authoritarianism. It does little to actually quell overall resistance, especially if such is from a popular movement. 

We must also take care when discussing laws and rule of law. The existence of these does not imply authoritarianism. Especially not in modern democracies where people directly elect their lawmakers. 

People should be allowed to mouth off. Even if it hurts the feelings of political leaders. That is why free speech is considered a protected right in many countries. But yes, there are many, sadly, who feel free speech should be clamped down on.

[Mollymews]

59 minutes ago, Elysienne Nebula said:

We must also take care when discussing laws and rule of law. The existence of these does not imply authoritarianism. Especially not in modern democracies where people directly elect their lawmakers.

a thought on this

when we see thou-shalt-not laws passed by our elected representatives that we agree with then we can downplay what is happening by couching our agreement in nice phrasing as a way to deflect the arguments of those who don't agree with the passed law

like we use nice phrasing to suggest that the authority of the state to enforce the law is not authoritarian when it is, in the plainest meaning of the word

[Madelaine McMasters]

18 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

On victims side of the house I am sympathetic to victims of abuse in general because I've been down that road. In the case of those ladies not so much, because it is way harder for a man to come out to the world then it is for women and I'm just sorry waiting twenty years or however long to do something about it is BS to me. So saying what they said is true I would ask them point blank. You let other people be abused because you didn't have the guts to put a stop to it? How do you live with yourselves? If it is true they contributed to the abuse by not stopping it in the first place when they had the chance to actually prove it and deserve no sympathy from me. None at all what so ever.

There are many good reasons for abused people to wait decades before telling their stories...
https://www.npr.org/2017/11/15/564443807/why-some-survivors-of-sexual-harassment-and-assault-wait-to-tell-their-stories

It's not just women who suffer quietly for years...
https://www.steveboyd.com/blog/why-victims-of-sexual-abuse-stay-silent/

Sometimes you just have to open a door...
https://apnews.com/article/health-religion-coronavirus-pandemic-sexual-abuse-by-clergy-2bbc11dd595e8b966155eec377060e0c

Or start a movement...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_Too_movement

Rather than ask why people wait so long to tell their stories, perhaps we should ask why it takes so long to make the world safe for them to do so.

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Rather than ask why people wait so long to tell their stories, perhaps we should ask why it takes so long to make the world safe for them to do so.

Rather than ask why people wait so long to tell their stories, perhaps we should ask why it takes so long to make it safe for them to do so.

Just a minor adjustment simply because there is no way to make the world safe. I don't think engineers have come up with a way to control the weather and the planet yet. 😉🤫

[Innula Zenovka]

7 hours ago, Mollymews said:

a thought on this

when we see thou-shalt-not laws passed by our elected representatives that we agree with then we can downplay what is happening by couching our agreement in nice phrasing as a way to deflect the arguments of those who don't agree with the passed law

like we use nice phrasing to suggest that the authority of the state to enforce the law is not authoritarian when it is, in the plainest meaning of the word

Yes, but that's the whole point of having a state -- that in order to enjoy the benefits of living in a society of any size and complexity, everyone has to agree that, ultimately, when anyone has a dispute of some sort with someone else that they can't settle between themselves, they agree to submit to the judgment of a court, that enforces a known set of rules, and from that a lot of other things follow.

The state has to have the monopoly on deciding what is and isn't the legitimate use of force, and it has to be able to enforce its decisions.   That's what it's for.

All states are authoritarian, in that sense, because states can and do impose their authority or they wouldn't be states. 

 

ETA:   I saw the collapse of the USSR, and what followed, up close for a few years, and saw what it's like when the state collapses, and people turned to the various mafias for protection and dispute resolution rather than the courts.    It's an experience that has stayed with me.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Innula Zenovka

[Rolig Loon]

1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Yes, but that's the whole point of having a state -- that in order to enjoy the benefits of living in a society of any size and complexity, everyone has to agree that, ultimately, when anyone has a dispute of some sort with someone else that they can't settle between themselves, they agree to submit to the judgment of a court, that enforces a known set of rules, and from that a lot of other things follow.

One of the benefits of having a legal system is that it gives us a set of rules that remind us how we have successfully resolved conflicts in the past, so that we don't need to treat each troublesome event as if we'd never thought about it before.  Our experience with past conflicts and -- most especially -- with how we got through them helps us make consistent decisions. It gives us hope that we can get through today's trouble too. Laws can have a way, too, of helping us recognize basic principles in complex situations. They don't necessarily point to black and white solutions, but they help us separate factors at play so we can discuss them rationally. A state is the agency we trust to help create and apply the laws.  Ideally, the state keeps our memory of past troubles and gives us both an arena for resolving new ones -- the courts -- and a forum for rethinking the rules we will apply next time -- the legislature.   There's no way to eliminate conflicts, but a state helps us face them together.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Rolig Loon

[Velk Kerang]

8 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

There are many good reasons for abused people to wait decades before telling their stories...
https://www.npr.org/2017/11/15/564443807/why-some-survivors-of-sexual-harassment-and-assault-wait-to-tell-their-stories

It's not just women who suffer quietly for years...
https://www.steveboyd.com/blog/why-victims-of-sexual-abuse-stay-silent/

Sometimes you just have to open a door...
https://apnews.com/article/health-religion-coronavirus-pandemic-sexual-abuse-by-clergy-2bbc11dd595e8b966155eec377060e0c

Or start a movement...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_Too_movement

Rather than ask why people wait so long to tell their stories, perhaps we should ask why it takes so long to make the world safe for them to do so.

First thank you for the articles and stuff. I appreciate that. I get what your saying. I do. That having been said on your last statement I'll just say this much on it. If my Mother had applied that logic and type of mentality then I'd more then likely be dead today. She didn't sit around waiting for the world to be a safe place. She womaned up and was ready for war. So I'm here today because Mom wasn't about that BS. Mom was ruthless. lol That woman did not play. lol👍

Now I know sometimes my comments may come across hard, but contrary to popular belief it is because of my Mother that I have a huge respect for women and I know for a fact women are inherently strong creatures. More so then men on a lot of different things. So knowing the strength that women posses and for a fact with out a shadow of a doubt they can be a force to be reckoned with and knowing all of this and knowing we had resources available to them even as far back as forty years ago I would still ask the same questions.👍

I admit though. I'm not a psychologist. That wasn't my field and I have no expertise other then my personal experiences and professional ones in dealing with rope victims who I've seen first hand go threw some horrid crap to stop it from happening to other people. That's the extent of my experiences. Just for me it's hard to wrap my mind around waiting that long. So if people are waiting around for the world to be a quote, unquote safe place then they are going to be waiting forever. That's just not realistic to me.🤦‍♂️

I do at times have some deep conversations about stuff like this with my SL wife/partner Jaden on these topics and she does try to help me see the other persons perspective I guess you could call it. Where I run in to my road blocks are I would think if something bad like this has happened to you then you should want to put a stop to it and do it at that crucial time when acting matters the most. That way no one else ever has to live threw it. So my understanding of those who don't is really still an on going processes. To me it's like knowing someone is a serial killer and you don't stop them because your all up in your feelings about it. That's just crazy to me. lol🤦‍♂️

Anyway that's sort of where I am with that topic right now and how I personally feel about it.😎

Edit: I want to add this too. If I were going to ask a version of your question it would be directed to the particular communities of these women. The question would be why did these women feel they could not come to you? Because we had resources for women in place back then. So if there is a specific reason for that then they are every bit as responsible. There is no excuse they could give to justify that to me. None.🤔😎

Edited August 19, 2021 by Velk Kerang
Corrections.

[Silent Mistwalker]

It always comes down to one thing. Blame the victim. That never changes. It doesn't do a damn bit of good to come forward if the blame is put on the victim and not the perpetrator regardless of any pittance of help that might be available. Yes, I've been there and bs like I just read is the reason why we don't come forward. How long are we supposed to live in hell because others refuse to accept the fact that it was not our fault? So far, it's been 48 years for me. The system and the people that run the system are broken and always have been in the US.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[Pixie Kobichenko]

33 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

It always comes down to one thing. Blame the victim. That never changes. It doesn't do a damn bit of good to come forward if the blame is put on the victim and not the perpetrator regardless of any pittance of help that might be available. Yes, I've been there and bs like I just read is the reason why we don't come forward. How long are we supposed to live in hell because others refuse to accept the fact that is was not our fault? So far, it's been 48 years for me. The system and the people that run the system are broken and always have been in the US.

*hugs* Something happened to me in high school & when I reported it I was told by a family member that “you must have liked it or you’d have stopped it.”  Then I was taken to the county sheriff to file a complaint- which lingered for months.  Upon checking on it I was told by the officer I filed the report with that I didn’t seem upset enough to pursue anything. 
 

I have no real words of rebuttal for some of the responses shared here (not Silent’s) You either understand, really understand- or you don’t &  have no room to talk about empowerment.  

Edited August 19, 2021 by Pixie Kobichenko

[Rowan Amore]

There is still way too many people who think wrongly about sexual assault.  

@Velk Kerangdo you not remember this particular asshat?   And you wonder why women don't come forth sooner?  This was a supposedly educated man.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/todd-akin-abortion-legitimate-rape_n_1807381

[Finite]

32 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

There is still way too many people who think wrongly about sexual assault.  

@Velk Kerangdo you not remember this particular asshat?   And you wonder why women don't come forth sooner?  This was a supposedly educated man.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/todd-akin-abortion-legitimate-rape_n_1807381

It's amazing what people say to generate votes from the lowest of lows of society. I doubt he believed what he was saying. He just knew he wouldn't lose any votes for saying it and would actually gain votes. Even backtracking and saying he "misspoke" doesn't matter since he had already let out the dog whistle.

[Velk Kerang]

1 hour ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

It always comes down to one thing. Blame the victim. That never changes. It doesn't do a damn bit of good to come forward if the blame is put on the victim and not the perpetrator regardless of any pittance of help that might be available. Yes, I've been there and bs like I just read is the reason why we don't come forward. How long are we supposed to live in hell because others refuse to accept the fact that it was not our fault? So far, it's been 48 years for me. The system and the people that run the system are broken and always have been in the US.

First at no point in anything I said was blame the victim even remotely in any of that. Let me correct you there now. Where in the hell did you even get that at? Secondly being a victim of a crime doesn't exempt you of the responsibility of doing something about it. I am so sick of people playing the blame the victim card as their excuse to sit with their thumb up their asses while other people get victimized. That is the real BS.😡

Now I'm real sorry about what happened to you. I truly am. However if you sat back and did nothing and other women were harmed then that's on you. That is your fault. Not the abuse you suffered, but the abuse anyone after you did. You could have stopped it. You didn't. Paint it any color you want to in order to sleep at night, but at the end of the day that is on your head for not stopping it when you had the chance.😡

Are you seriously going to tell me you sat on your behind for 48 years and did nothing and expect me to honestly feel bad that you let other people suffer? I'm sorry I don't. I'm sorry for what you went threw, but it stops there.😡

Not trying to be disrespectful or hurt your feelings or anything, but I am going to keep it real with you. Right is right and wrong is wrong and no amount of BS is going to change that simple fact. I'm sorry it's just not.👍

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

There is still way too many people who think wrongly about sexual assault.  

@Velk Kerangdo you not remember this particular asshat?   And you wonder why women don't come forth sooner?  This was a supposedly educated man.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/todd-akin-abortion-legitimate-rape_n_1807381

First off that guy is stupid anyway. Not everything out his mouth makes sense. Secondly I'm Pro-Life and I do not believe in abortions. I believe it's murder. I certainly wouldn't have the debate of abortions on what that idiot has to say. lol I mean you can read the article and when he says the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down he's already telling you that he don't know jack. lol I can't even see how your trying to apply that to how many people view sexual assault. I mean I can't even take that dude seriously. lol Just so I am clear though when I discuss the topic of abuse I am talking about ALL abuse. Just not sexual. All.😎

[Drake1 Nightfire]

On 8/10/2021 at 1:24 PM, Velk Kerang said:

Since this is a continuation from this thread I am just going to post up my last response and we can go from there and anyone else who has a point of view can feel free and welcome to join in if they like.😎

Well on your first point I disagree and the reason I disagree is because if whites had so much power to oppress then we would have never even had a black president in the first place. There would not be a buffet of programs and financial aid out there available to help minorities that are simply not available to help whites. People tend to forget it's not about the race. It's about money and power. Those who have and those who don't. There are several rich and successful back men and women in today's society who have just as much if not more then a lot of rich and successful white men and women. However the media and certain groups want to lay this claim about white privilege so people feed in to it. If being white was such a privilege there would not be white people out here struggling now to put food on the table for their children. People who have no type of programs they could turn to and the ones that are available more often then not they are turned down for being white. So I would argue being white is more of a handicap and a hindrance then a privilege.🤦‍♂️

And as for the topic of women in the gaming industry it is a well known fact there are many well respected and established developers who are both loved and adored by their entire communities. None of which deal with misogyny, but I find more often then not in today's culture women like to throw that word around with out even knowing what it really means. It's a word that gets thrown around way entirely to much and the majority of the time it doesn't even fit the situation. So in the context it was used in I found it to be simply untrue because we have a entire history of well respected female developers. If the gaming industry was as misogynistic as some people would like to claim then we would not have full on teams of female developers creating games for our entertainment.👍

On your last two point it's been my experience a lot of that greatly depends on your job and work experience. I've known many women to make just as much if not more then the men in some professions and others not. For example if a man and a woman are working security on a passenger ship out to sea more then likely the man will get paid let's say a dollar more. Why? Because when the ship goes down it's women and children first. So ya the man deserves that extra dollar to go down with the ship. I'm sorry that's just how it is. That's life mate. lol

As for work place situations that goes both ways so I'd say it all depends on the person. I worked once for a lady who tried to be all dominate with the men and throw her weight around and we took it. I took it. Until the day and time she over stepped her bounds and walked in on me in the bathroom while I was in the middle of taking a leak. Now right or wrong I am old school. There are things you do and things you don't. Let's just say I verbally lit up on her from one side up to the other. To the point everyone heard it. I ran her little behind back to her office and informed her on the proper etiquette of respect and let her know she was lucky because if she had been a man following a lady in to the bathroom like that then I would have laid her out. So are women treated differently then men? Absolutely they are. Because any man worth his weight in gold will tolerate more crap from a woman because we're trying to be respectful. More often then not it's stuff we will not tolerate from other men. Some women abuse that. So there are jerks on both sides of the coin in the work place. That's just life.😎

I'm really not sure where you are getting your info from. There are plenty of programs for all poor people in the US. The DTA doesnt care if your are black, white or purple. Plenty of white families getting welfare and SNAP benefits. Plenty of poor white kids getting scholarships and financial aid for college. 

Your wording shows just how much privilege you have. "There are several rich and successful black men and women in today's society" Several? Wow. So many rich POC out there as compared to the thousands of rich whites. 

You keep saying how bad poor white people have it yet say you have worked in high paying jobs for the past 20 ish years. I suppose my question is, how would you know? 

You havent watched any female gamers stream, have you? There are horrible misogynistic comments in each one. Like, really nasty stuff. Just because they have huge followings, does not negate the asshats that attack them every time.

 

[Elysienne Nebula]

22 hours ago, Mollymews said:

a thought on this

when we see thou-shalt-not laws passed by our elected representatives that we agree with then we can downplay what is happening by couching our agreement in nice phrasing as a way to deflect the arguments of those who don't agree with the passed law

like we use nice phrasing to suggest that the authority of the state to enforce the law is not authoritarian when it is, in the plainest meaning of the word

If the authority of the state to enforce the law is based itself on the principle of rule of law within some system of democratic governance, then no, it's not authoritarianism. In both cases authority is used, but the goals are different. 

You can argue that it's "nice phrasing" and claim it's "deflecting arguments" but it won't change the reality that societies and nation-states need a commitment to rule of law if anything resembling self-governance, openness, and democracy are to flourish within them. 

 

[Luna Bliss]

On 8/17/2021 at 2:57 PM, Velk Kerang said:

On victims side of the house I am sympathetic to victims of abuse in general because I've been down that road. In the case of those ladies not so much, because it is way harder for a man to come out to the world then it is for women and I'm just sorry waiting twenty years or however long to do something about it is BS to me. So saying what they said is true I would ask them point blank. You let other people be abused because you didn't have the guts to put a stop to it? How do you live with yourselves? If it is true they contributed to the abuse by not stopping it in the first place when they had the chance to actually prove it and deserve no sympathy from me. None at all what so ever.

You've made this into an 'all or nothing' conflict by insisting all people who have been abused should have reported the abuse in order to protect others. Solutions to conflicts are almost never black and white though, and the reality is that some women likely had the emotional ability to report the abuse but didn't give a damn about anybody else and so did not report it to keep further abuse from happening to other women, while some women truly didn't have the strength or ability to do so.

I think you are looking at this from your own identity (older, male) and imagining these women should have the same capabilities as you do. You're going to have to step outside your psychological makeup and make some effort to understand those who are not like you though -- develop some empathy. 

There are many reasons women don't come forth immediately to report abuse.
The dynamics around abuse are complicated, and we'd have to get into a lot of psychology to understand it well. But to keep it short, there are several key reasons it is not reported immediately:

1. Fear of retaliation by the abuser. Acts of revenge by the abuser who has been reported can be severe. A great percentage of women who are murdered by partners were murdered at the point they confronted their abuser via reporting them or attempting to disengage.

2. Shame. The woman feels guilty or bad when someone abuses them and so to get rid of these feelings they pretend it didn't happen or do everything they can to get rid of the feelings as quickly as possible. Often you'll find abuse victims questioning whether they did something wrong to cause it (was I dressed wrong, did I say something wrong, did I go to some place I shouldn't have). 
Under severe stress it's easy for anyone to slip into child-like ways of perceiving the world and feel if one encounters pain they are bad and did something to cause it. It's difficult to gather the strength to fight back if you feel somehow responsible for what happened to you.

3. Some women are very shy and don't want to cause a scene. It can be uncomfortable to have the public look at you and consider sexual matters at all (in the case of sexual abuse). Easier to just forget about, push painful feelings away from consciousness, at the time.
 
4. The younger someone is the less likely they will have even acquired the skills to defend against those taking advantage of them. That's why abusers often prey on young woman, or women they perceive as having low self-esteem. Abusers have reported scanning for victims who have their head down, or who are disheveled in appearance, or walking as if they have no confidence in themselves -- much like animals hunt for their prey these abusers target an easy mark.

5. It's been the case up until recent years that for the most part women simply weren't believed should they come forth with sexual abuse accusations. Society at large tended to believe she deserved the abuse if dressed too provocatively, or that she was leading her abuser on and really "wanted it". It has taken a lot of work to get the truth out as to what really causes sexual abuse -- that many men feel they have a right to control women.

6. More Societal Beliefs
Not that long ago  it was perfectly acceptable for a man to hit a woman -- to do whatever he wanted with "his woman". It's even still the case in many backward religions, and we have a huge population of evangelicals who believe the man should be the head of the family and that the woman should obey her husband. How could that ever jive with reporting him for abuse?

Some even believe that rape can not happen in a marriage, as if women are obligated to be available for sexual purposes 24/7 no matter their desires.

We live in a very victim-blaming culture. People tend to believe if something bad happens to another they somehow brought it on themselves and could have done something to avoid it. A lot of this attitude is a kind of macho defense for one's own psyche, a way to believe one can control anything bad happening to themselves with some sort of strength or willpower the victim simply didn't choose to manifest.

7. PTSD  Many survivors of abuse live with chronic PTSD (CPTSD). This makes it difficult to take care of and defend themselves. Confronting their abuser and dealing with what is usually a prolonged court battle is simply too much to deal with. Many survivors of abuse have been abused before and are suffering from its effects when subsequent abuse occurs, thereby making it difficult to report what might seem like a mild case of abuse (sexual harassment at work, for example).

For the above reasons and more it's perfectly understandable why a woman might wait until later to report abuse. She's older and better able to defend herself as time goes by.  And if other women reported the exact same man she has needed support to bring forth her claim and feels it's more likely others will believe her too if it also happened to other women.
After gaining some wisdom and dealing with the effects of abuse (for some it's been quite horrific) you'll see many survivors develop a desire to protect other women too, and understanding that standing up and coming forth helps to achieve this goal.

[Luna Bliss]

On 8/17/2021 at 2:57 PM, Velk Kerang said:

On victims side of the house I am sympathetic to victims of abuse in general because I've been down that road. In the case of those ladies not so much, because it is way harder for a man to come out to the world then it is for women and I'm just sorry waiting twenty years or however long to do something about it is BS to me. So saying what they said is true I would ask them point blank. You let other people be abused because you didn't have the guts to put a stop to it? How do you live with yourselves? If it is true they contributed to the abuse by not stopping it in the first place when they had the chance to actually prove it and deserve no sympathy from me. None at all what so ever.

You've made this into an 'all or nothing' conflict by insisting all people who have been abused should have reported the abuse in order to protect others. Solutions to conflicts are almost never black and white though, and the reality is that some women likely had the emotional ability to report the abuse but didn't give a damn about anybody else and so did not report it to keep further abuse from happening to other women, while some women truly didn't have the strength or ability to do so.

I think you are looking at this from your own identity (older, male) and imagining these women should have the same capabilities as you do. You're going to have to step outside your psychological makeup and make some effort to understand those who are not like you though -- develop some empathy. 

There are many reasons women don't come forth immediately to report abuse.
The dynamics around abuse are complicated, and we'd have to get into a lot of psychology to understand it well. But to keep it short, there are several key reasons it is not reported immediately:

1. Fear of retaliation by the abuser. Acts of revenge by the abuser who has been reported can be severe. A great percentage of women who are murdered by partners were murdered at the point they confronted their abuser via reporting them or attempting to disengage.

2. Shame. The woman feels guilty or bad when someone abuses them and so to get rid of these feelings they pretend it didn't happen or do everything they can to get rid of the feelings as quickly as possible. Often you'll find abuse victims questioning whether they did something wrong to cause it (was I dressed wrong, did I say something wrong, did I go to some place I shouldn't have). 
Under severe stress it's easy for anyone to slip into child-like ways of perceiving the world and feel if one encounters pain they are bad and did something to cause it. It's difficult to gather the strength to fight back if you feel somehow responsible for what happened to you.

3. Some women are very shy and don't want to cause a scene. It can be uncomfortable to have the public look at you and consider sexual matters at all (in the case of sexual abuse). Easier to just forget about, push painful feelings away from consciousness, at the time.
 
4. The younger someone is the less likely they will have even acquired the skills to defend against those taking advantage of them. That's why abusers often prey on young woman, or women they perceive as having low self-esteem. Abusers have reported scanning for victims who have their head down, or who are disheveled in appearance, or walking as if they have no confidence in themselves -- much like animals hunt for their prey these abusers target an easy mark.

5. It's been the case up until recent years that for the most part women simply weren't believed should they come forth with sexual abuse accusations. Society at large tended to believe she deserved the abuse if dressed too provocatively, or that she was leading her abuser on and really "wanted it". It has taken a lot of work to get the truth out as to what really causes sexual abuse -- that many men feel they have a right to control women.

6. More Societal Beliefs
Not that long ago  it was perfectly acceptable for a man to hit a woman -- to do whatever he wanted with "his woman". It's even still the case in many backward religions, and we have a huge population of evangelicals who believe the man should be the head of the family and that the woman should obey her husband. How could that ever jibe with reporting him for abuse?

Some even believe that r-a-p-e can not happen in a marriage, as if women are obligated to be available for sexual purposes 24/7 no matter their desires.

We live in a very victim-blaming culture. People tend to believe if something bad happens to another they somehow brought it on themselves and could have done something to avoid it. A lot of this attitude is a kind of macho defense for one's own psyche, a way to believe one can control anything bad happening to themselves with some sort of strength or willpower the victim simply didn't choose to manifest.

7. PTSD  Many survivors of abuse live with chronic PTSD (CPTSD). This makes it difficult to take care of and defend themselves. Confronting their abuser and dealing with what is usually a prolonged court battle is simply too much to deal with. Many survivors of abuse have been abused before and are suffering from its effects when subsequent abuse occurs, thereby making it difficult to report what might seem like a mild case of abuse (sexual harassment at work, for example).

For the above reasons and more it's perfectly understandable why a woman might wait until later to report abuse. She's older and better able to defend herself as time goes by.  And if other women reported the exact same man she has needed support to bring forth her claim and feels it's more likely others will believe her too if it also happened to other women.
After gaining some wisdom and dealing with the effects of abuse (for some it's been quite horrific) you'll see many survivors develop a desire to protect other women too, and understanding that standing up and coming forth helps to achieve this goal.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Luna Bliss