POWER AND ITS EFFECTS

[Luna Bliss]

Who has more power in any society, and how does this greater power affect those with lesser power?  Are there changing power dynamics in recent times (for example, more women in the gaming industry now, or more Black people in governmental positions)?
And what can be done to make the world a more equitable place so everyone has more of an opportunity to pursue their dreams? (Or perhaps you believe a more equitable world is not a worthy goal or even impossible)?

(I began this thread because the gacha thread where these issues were beginning to be discussed took that thread way off-topic).

[Velk Kerang]

Since this is a continuation from this thread I am just going to post up my last response and we can go from there and anyone else who has a point of view can feel free and welcome to join in if they like.😎

Well on your first point I disagree and the reason I disagree is because if whites had so much power to oppress then we would have never even had a black president in the first place. There would not be a buffet of programs and financial aid out there available to help minorities that are simply not available to help whites. People tend to forget it's not about the race. It's about money and power. Those who have and those who don't. There are several rich and successful back men and women in today's society who have just as much if not more then a lot of rich and successful white men and women. However the media and certain groups want to lay this claim about white privilege so people feed in to it. If being white was such a privilege there would not be white people out here struggling now to put food on the table for their children. People who have no type of programs they could turn to and the ones that are available more often then not they are turned down for being white. So I would argue being white is more of a handicap and a hindrance then a privilege.🤦‍♂️

And as for the topic of women in the gaming industry it is a well known fact there are many well respected and established developers who are both loved and adored by their entire communities. None of which deal with misogyny, but I find more often then not in today's culture women like to throw that word around with out even knowing what it really means. It's a word that gets thrown around way entirely to much and the majority of the time it doesn't even fit the situation. So in the context it was used in I found it to be simply untrue because we have a entire history of well respected female developers. If the gaming industry was as misogynistic as some people would like to claim then we would not have full on teams of female developers creating games for our entertainment.👍

On your last two point it's been my experience a lot of that greatly depends on your job and work experience. I've known many women to make just as much if not more then the men in some professions and others not. For example if a man and a woman are working security on a passenger ship out to sea more then likely the man will get paid let's say a dollar more. Why? Because when the ship goes down it's women and children first. So ya the man deserves that extra dollar to go down with the ship. I'm sorry that's just how it is. That's life mate. lol

As for work place situations that goes both ways so I'd say it all depends on the person. I worked once for a lady who tried to be all dominate with the men and throw her weight around and we took it. I took it. Until the day and time she over stepped her bounds and walked in on me in the bathroom while I was in the middle of taking a leak. Now right or wrong I am old school. There are things you do and things you don't. Let's just say I verbally lit up on her from one side up to the other. To the point everyone heard it. I ran her little behind back to her office and informed her on the proper etiquette of respect and let her know she was lucky because if she had been a man following a lady in to the bathroom like that then I would have laid her out. So are women treated differently then men? Absolutely they are. Because any man worth his weight in gold will tolerate more crap from a woman because we're trying to be respectful. More often then not it's stuff we will not tolerate from other men. Some women abuse that. So there are jerks on both sides of the coin in the work place. That's just life.😎

[Doris Johnsky]

10 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

 

On your last two point it's been my experience a lot of that greatly depends on your job and work experience. I've known many women to make just as much if not more then the men in some professions and others not. For example if a man and a woman are working security on a passenger ship out to sea more then likely the man will get paid let's say a dollar more. Why? Because when the ship goes down it's women and children first. So ya the man deserves that extra dollar to go down with the ship. I'm sorry that's just how it is. That's life mate. lol

 

I'm pretty sure if i am working security on a cruise ship they aren't sticking me on a liferaft simply because I am a woman.  I would think I would be busting hump getting passengers on the liferafts

SO, I get the same pay as you. . 

[Finite]

1 hour ago, Doris Johnsky said:

I'm pretty sure if i am working security on a cruise ship they aren't sticking me on a liferaft simply because I am a woman.  I would think I would be busting hump getting passengers on the liferafts

SO, I get the same pay as you. . 

It's a joke they heard watching Bill Burr (a comedian) say. Now apparently it's a new mansplaination. (2:40ish mark).

 

[Doris Johnsky]

7 hours ago, Finite said:

It's a joke they heard watching Bill Burr (a comedian) say. Now apparently it's a new mansplaination. (2:40ish mark).

 

Then he should put "j/k".  Not everyone watches Bill Burr

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

19 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

[1] Who has more power in any society, and how does this greater power affect those with lesser power?

[2] Are there changing power dynamics in recent times (for example, more women in the gaming industry now, or more Black people in governmental positions)?

[3] And what can be done to make the world a more equitable place so everyone has more of an opportunity to pursue their dreams? (Or perhaps you believe a more equitable world is not a worthy goal or even impossible)?

[1] Filthy rich, too big to fail corporate leaders who have the tendency to be more sociopathic and willing to exploit people and therefore have an edge over less sociopathic peers?

[2] Yes. More young, new, progressive people working their way up in politics through hard work, and not because their filthy rich moms and dads had a nice job for them?

[3] Legislation to promote more income equality (progressive taxes, banning dark election campaign money, etc.)?

I added the question marks, because they're all hypotheticals, of course. Time will have to tell whether such strategies will really work.

[Elysienne Nebula]

We have to be careful when discussing power dynamics in our societies, lest we find some monsters staring back at us from our own mirrors. 

[Velk Kerang]

9 hours ago, Doris Johnsky said:

I'm pretty sure if i am working security on a cruise ship they aren't sticking me on a liferaft simply because I am a woman.  I would think I would be busting hump getting passengers on the liferafts

SO, I get the same pay as you. . 

Well I don't know what your background in security is, but mine is over 20 years in both Homeland and private sector and if we want to get technical about it then fine. When it comes to evacuations only key personnel stay behind. So if that's you then you get the dollar more same as me. Otherwise your hump is on that boat mate. lol😎

7 hours ago, Finite said:

It's a joke they heard watching Bill Burr (a comedian) say. Now apparently it's a new mansplaination. (2:40ish mark).

 

I actually had been using that saying for years, but I knew I had heard a version of it in someones act before. I just couldn't remember who it was to save my life. lol So thank you for posting that up mate.👍😎

42 minutes ago, Doris Johnsky said:

Then he should put "j/k".  Not everyone watches Bill Burr

I mean I was and I wasn't. It was more of an inside joke to me because it's actually a saying I used to use at work when shooting the breeze if we want to break it down. Depending on who I was talking to would depend on how I'd say it to fit the situation. At work the gist of it was if you want the extra dollar then take the promotion and deal with the extra BS otherwise you can't complain. lol In truth most of the women I worked with didn't want the promotion and extra BS to deal with.😁

In fact I've only ever worked with one lady in my life who actually did who has worked with me in search and rescue operations on several occasions and she was always in the clear before I was. In fact that was part of her orders to ensure the rest of the team got out safely. It was my detail and that's how I ran it. My team will always go home to their families before I do. So if that makes me politically incorrect and tramples on the sensitive feelings of today's society then I happily do so with a smile. lol In how I used it to apply to my analogy it pretty much fits the situation and applies. What dude said in his act isn't wrong mate. lol😎

[Pixie Kobichenko]

21 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Who has more power in any society, and how does this greater power affect those with lesser power?  Are there changing power dynamics in recent times (for example, more women in the gaming industry now, or more Black people in governmental positions)?
And what can be done to make the world a more equitable place so everyone has more of an opportunity to pursue their dreams? (Or perhaps you believe a more equitable world is not a worthy goal or even impossible)?

(I began this thread because the gacha thread where these issues were beginning to be discussed took that thread way off-topic).

Sadly the good old boys club still runs the world.  

[Velk Kerang]

2 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

Sadly the good old boys club still runs the world.  

If that were actually true then a lot of the crap going on in the world today would absolutely not be happening mate. lol🤣😎

[Innula Zenovka]

21 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Who has more power in any society, and how does this greater power affect those with lesser power?

Those who own the land and the means  of production, distribution and exchange, I think, and how it affects those with less power depends, ultimately, on what the law allows those with more power to get away with and from what the law fails to protect those who lack the power and agency to protect themselves..

Edited August 11, 2021 by Innula Zenovka

[Pixie Kobichenko]

11 minutes ago, Velk Kerang said:

If that were actually true then a lot of the crap going on in the world today would absolutely not be happening mate. lol🤣😎

Well, I was wondering when you would grace me with a snarky comment & laughing emoji.  It’s been a hot minute since you previously went out of your way to do so on every single one of my posts.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/20/rich-white-men-rule-america-minority-rule

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-courts-white-male-judges_n_5cb61c86e4b0ffefe3b835a6

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/january-6-minimizers/619634/

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/three-ways-to-stop-global-economic-system-working-only-for-rich-white-men/

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/culture/a35379486/why-does-the-world-reward-mediocre-white-men/

I could continue to google, copy & paste links, but I know it’s a wasted effort “mate”.

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Elysienne Nebula said:

We have to be careful when discussing power dynamics in our societies, lest we find some monsters staring back at us from our own mirrors. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[Luna Bliss]

58 minutes ago, Velk Kerang said:

At work the gist of it was if you want the extra dollar then take the promotion and deal with the extra BS otherwise you can't complain. lol In truth most of the women I worked with didn't want the promotion and extra BS to deal with.😁

I totally agree that if a job has increased responsibility or danger that any person (whether male or female) should receive higher pay. However, when I stated that women are frequently not compensated fairly I was not speaking to these jobs -- I'm referring to jobs where the responsibility is the same but men are paid more.

I can cite many studies proving this injustice, and have family members who were affected by the dynamic as well.
While your personal experience is important it is not representative of the entire world -- we have to look at all types of jobs, and gather information from surveys and statistics in order to see the big picture. 

This dynamic is insulting to women, of course, but even more important this dynamic lowers the quality of lives substantially, particularly in the case of children living in single-parent homes where mothers are paid less. From a third to a fourth of children in the U.S. live with a single parent, and most of those children live with their mother. Women who unjustly receive less pay for the same work as men is a major contributing factor in childhood poverty.

[Luna Bliss]

23 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

21 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Who has more power in any society, and how does this greater power affect those with lesser power?

Those who own the land and the means  of production, distribution and exchange, I think, and how it affects those with less power depends, ultimately, on what the law allows those with more power to get away with and from what the law fails to protect those who lack the power and agency to protect themselves..

So true, and I'm happy to see that in recent years laws have changed (via the pressure from Social Workers) to better compensate women for their childrearing work. Previously women who didn't have a good work record (due to spending time caring for children at home instead of working outside the home) would receive less social security in old age, and far more women lived in poverty in old age compared to men because of it. Fortunately the laws are changing and these factors are being taken into account when setting social security benefit amounts.

[Pixie Kobichenko]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I totally agree that if a job has increased responsibility or danger that any person (whether male or female) should receive higher pay. However, when I stated that women are frequently not compensated fairly I was not speaking to these jobs -- I'm referring to jobs where the responsibility is the same but men are paid more.

I can cite many studies proving this injustice, and have family members who were affected by the dynamic as well.
While your personal experience is important it is not representative of the entire world -- we have to look at all types of jobs, and gather information from surveys and statistics in order to see the big picture. 

This dynamic is insulting to women, of course, but even more important this dynamic lowers the quality of lives substantially, particularly in the case of children living in single-parent homes where mothers are paid less. From a third to a fourth of children in the U.S. live with a single parent, and most of those children live with their mother. Women who unjustly receive less pay for the same work as men is a major contributing factor in childhood poverty.

When my hubby & I got together 20+ years ago, I had a college education, he at that time did not.  I had sales, customer service & retention experience in a call center environment.  He had experience working in a cell phone kiosk at a big box store.  We were hired to the same company for the same job thru a staffing firm.  (We knew each other & were together prior). The job was selling insurance  policies  & servicing claims for over the road commercial truck drivers.  I think he was hired on at more than $2.00 an hour more than me.  
Same positions & I had equal to or more experience.  🤷‍♀️. The work environment sucked & one day we went to lunch & didn’t return.   Aaaah to be 23, ignorant, & stupidly carefree. 

[Luna Bliss]

21 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

Well on your first point I disagree and the reason I disagree is because if whites had so much power to oppress then we would have never even had a black president in the first place.

 

21 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

And as for the topic of women in the gaming industry it is a well known fact there are many well respected and established developers who are both loved and adored by their entire communities.

Because we see more Black people in positions of power, and more women in the gaming industry, does not mean the problem is solved.  It's getting better for marginalized groups, for sure, but a few outliers for a few does not make the problem disappear for all those who endure prejudice and disadvantage.

[Luna Bliss]

21 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

People tend to forget it's not about the race. It's about money and power. Those who have and those who don't.

It is about money and power, yes. But societies stratify and organize into levels, placing certain types of people at the lower levels where the least amount of benefits are available.  And Blacks have been the latrine of America for years, and still are depending on the area of the country you live in or the person you happen to talk to.

[Ceka Cianci]

Bill Burr is funny..hehehe

[Ayeleeon]

22 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

And what can be done to make the world a more equitable place so everyone has more of an opportunity to pursue their dreams?

Reduce the power and reach of centralized government and give people the liberty and freedom to pursue those dreams.

[Luna Bliss]

9 hours ago, Finite said:

11 hours ago, Doris Johnsky said:

I'm pretty sure if i am working security on a cruise ship they aren't sticking me on a liferaft simply because I am a woman.  I would think I would be busting hump getting passengers on the liferafts

SO, I get the same pay as you. . 

It's a joke they heard watching Bill Burr (a comedian) say. Now apparently it's a new mansplaination. (2:40ish mark).

I would like to see him make a joke about a macho man and how they feel they must be strong in all situations. Maybe he has made such jokes elsewhere.  Anyway, it would be as good of a joke as making fun of the woman pretending to be strong until she needs help and begins acting like a helpless child.

In other words, both parties have fault in this dynamic...women who expect men to never show weakness as well as men who feel their place is to dominate the world (and women) with their macho behavior that won't admit to weakness.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Ayeleeon said:

22 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

And what can be done to make the world a more equitable place so everyone has more of an opportunity to pursue their dreams?

Reduce the power and reach of centralized government and give people the liberty and freedom to pursue those dreams.

Oh dear God, not this again.  lol

Why do you trust these people you want to give liberty and freedom to?  They are the same as the people in government...they elected the people in government.  Getting rid of government is not a panacea.

[Jaylinbridges]

21 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

Since this is a continuation from this thread I am just going to post up my last response and we can go from there and anyone else who has a point of view can feel free and welcome to join in if they like.😎

Guess you were censored...

 

[Ceka Cianci]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Oh dear God, not this again.  lol

Why do you trust these people you want to give liberty and freedom to?  They are the same as the people in government...they elected the people in government.  Getting rid of government is not a panacea.

I thought it was WE that elected the people in government,as well as They.

[Madelaine McMasters]

4 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Guess you were censored...

Or that Luna's and Velk's off topic posts were removed from the Gacha thread, as Luna suspected they might, causing her to create this thread?

Luna anticipated this, why didn't you and Velk?