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1 minute ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Actually a gambling addiction is very comparable to a junkie. Do some research.

Seconded. As someone who's sister had a drug addiction for years, this post is just.. words don't begin define how much of a bad take this is, Finite.

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2 minutes ago, Rathgrith027 said:

Seconded. As someone who's sister had a drug addiction for years, this post is just.. words don't begin define how much of a bad take this is, Finite.

Hmm. I don't think you got the gist of what I said at all. I said gacha players not gambling or gamblers. Please if I am quoted or responded to do not take my words out of context or put new words in my mouth. Thank you.

Edited by Finite
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Gambling addictions aren't confined to the grounds of a casino. Gacha mechanics are intentionally designed to hit that specific type of addiction. There's a reason Japan has been changing legislation around them, starting with the banning off Full Set Gachas. 

Please don't chalk up addiction to a lack of willpower. It's a sickness. And I know people right now who are freaking out at the thought that their fix is going away at the end of the month. It's brutal to witness. 

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42 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

That is the selling trick, to NOT do that.
Last week I saw a very nice shirt on someone, went to the store: a lot of lame colors are sold individually, the nice ones are only in the 25 colors (so pricey) fatpack.

Now see, that is just the kind of seller I avoid because they aren't willing to go the "extra mile" for a customer in the name of retention and profit from repeat customers. It's the repeat customers that keep a business in business, not the "buy one and dones". And in order to retain those repeat customers I will go that extra mile because they are my "gravy train". 

I'm also one of "those people" who don't allow merchants to shove products down my throat. I go where I can get what I am after. And if I can't find it anywhere else, I do without or substitute. 

It boils down to I will remain in control of my shopping and shopping experience. I will never relinquish that control to merchants.

Thank you though (seriously) for opening that door for me to speak up. Regardless of whether we agree on this or not, you're still good people and I won't hold it against you. 🤗

 

I am more likely to buy from merchants I know will go the extra mile than one who I don't know or am uncertain about.

Edited by Silent Mistwalker
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1 minute ago, Bitterthorn said:

Please don't chalk up addiction to a lack of willpower. It's a sickness. And I know people right now who are freaking out at the thought that their fix is going away at the end of the month. It's brutal to witness. 

But removing Gachas style products from S/L are not going to cure the 10% who have such an addiction but only send them off on a hunt for a substitution.

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2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

It is actually good having everyone post about their perceived loophole around things.  It makes it easier for Patch and Team to be able to name specifics in their FAQ, rather than folks later saying "It did not specifically say ABC, so..."

I don't see the need to be precise, just ban the twerps when they try to toe the line. Not only is toeing the rules breaking the rules, but rules are there to give us guidelines, it doesn't mean they exist to restrict what Linden Lab can do.

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15 minutes ago, Elvina Ewing said:

I understand that i will have to remove all of them. I really really really don't want to retire those items!! What choice do i have as a creator? I got a lot of hate and harassment in the past for making rares and ultras available for a high price in my store as a limited pack. I had to remove them all, and that was the main reason i decided to put those gacha machines back out in my store.

Would it be ok to offer the same old gacha items as copy/mod/ no trans version for a normal price in the store? Or will i be harassed and badmouthed for doing that again?

This is the sort of thing most people are looking at doing. What works best depends a bit on the gacha. Some might be best in a single bundle. Others splitting out the rares and ultrarares to sell separately. You know your items best when it comes to how to divide them.

I can't say whether your customers will react badly or not, but I'd suggest just banning anyone who is abusive. You don't have to put up with that.

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5 hours ago, Viche Hexem said:

In my wildest dreams I'd have hoped that this would lead to gachas becoming games where (based on how well you did in the game) prizes are won, or tickets are won which can then be used to buy prizes of varying values. Imagine: The Arcade being an actual arcade, fun games to play with prizes to make playing them worth it.

we can make these kinds of games already and they are allowed. We just have to mount them on Skill Gaming regions when they are pay-to-play

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6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

But removing Gachas style products from S/L are not going to cure the 10% who have such an addiction but only send them off on a hunt for a substitution.

That may be true, but the reality of the matter is this isn't solely for moral reasons (though to be honest if it were, I'm certain LL would have stepped in much sooner than this), but for legal ones as me and others have said numerous times before. If you want to complain about Gacha being banned, complain to your legislators.

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43 minutes ago, AriaMoonlit said:

Your paying for a surprise box. Not knowing what you will get.

Not knowing is no the same as random. When you buy anything on the MP without a demo, you don't know anything about it other than a general description and (usually) a picture, or maybe some reviews. Selling a /specific/ unknown item is allowed, like a subscription box, or an unfinished product (example: "pay me 500 now and I'll give you the next thing I release (which will be sold for 2000) when it comes out; trust me it'll be amazing.").

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16 minutes ago, Rathgrith027 said:

That may be true, but the reality of the matter is this isn't solely for moral reasons (though to be honest if it were, I'm certain LL would have stepped in much sooner than this), but for legal ones as me and others have said numerous times before. If you want to complain about Gacha being banned, complain to your legislators.

Well I would assume the powers that be in the countries that did ban Gacha style games, did so with a moralistic cover....or a way to stop the competition with their own gambling venues. My question would be how many countries have actually banned such games and is the example of EA with the Netherlands and Belgium laws a foretaste of what will happen with more countries exerting their will over international gaming software where a small minority have the power to dictate the morality allowed for the rest of the world.

Edited by Arielle Popstar
spelling and clarification
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1 hour ago, Maymay Matova said:

I just bought some gacha :D and came across this vendor which should be ok regarding the rule that you need to know what you are paying for.
And I like it much better than the usual ones because I know I won´t buy a double next.

ShinyShabby.jpg

But, but, I want item 7 :( Why can't I just buy item 7?

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1 hour ago, Chris Nova said:

That’s probably because of the way vendors and the marketplace are structured. LL made it a living nightmare to upload to the marketplace and it hasn’t been updated since. So those creators who made gachas but didn’t have a marketplace because it was too time consuming are probably just going to close. Same with using vendors, it’s very time consuming and asking them to take the time to put all their gachas into vendors? Yikes.

Nightmare?

I'm one of the most technically incompetent people you'll ever meet. But ...

It takes me 5 minutes to push a new painting to my gallery marketplace store, create the full listing, and click the "make it live" button. 5 minutes. I said before, if I can do it, anyone can.

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8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Well I would assume the powers that be in the countries that did ban Gacha style games, did so with a moralistic cover....or a way to stop the competition with their own gambling venues. My question would be how many countries haver actually banned such games and is the example of EA with the Netherlands and Belgium laws a foretaste of what will happen with more countries exerting their will over international gaming software where a small minority have the power to dictate the morality allowed.

I always got the sense they were regulated because those vendors were targeting children. Isn't gambling legal in Netherlands and Belgium?

Edited by Finite
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8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Well I would assume the powers that be in the countries that did ban Gacha style games, did so with a moralistic cover....or a way to stop the competition with their own gambling venues. My question would be how many countries haver actually banned such games and is the example of EA with the Netherlands and Belgium laws a foretaste of what will happen with more countries exerting their will over international gaming software where a small minority have the power to dictate the morality allowed.

 

https://screenrant.com/lootbox-gambling-microtransactions-illegal-japan-china-belgium-netherlands/

Yes, it is a foretaste of what will happen with more countries passing legislation regulating gachas.

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a. Why do 7seas fish now have to be no xfer? They have ALWAYS been transfer. If someone gets a fish from 7seas and gifts it / gives it away, that receiver or buyer knows *Exactly* what they are buying, so why this change / rule?
I do not understand why 7seas fish have to be no transfer when selling and trading them doesn't violate gaming laws and isn't gambling. The buyer knows exactly what they are getting.
 
I am going to be so upset at you guys if you force the creators of 7seas to make all of their fish no-xfer. It ruins the game for me and basically everyone else.  I understand no Gachas - but at what point is too far?
 
b. How is this going to affect vendors that give out random breedables. For instance: I have a vendor that sells quail eggs...but the quail eggs are all 100% different. The vendor simply states "Female Quail $1L " and no other details. Is this vendor still going to be allowed since I am simply selling them a quail, and they know this, even though the quails color will be random?
As someone who breeds breedables, there is literally no way I can put out every breedable of every color into their own separate vendor - especially considering there are millions of colors.
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will gaming sims be affected by this? (or whatever the regions are that actually allow for gambling)

edit: as far as my opinion on this goes, i'm seriously glad for it. i mean, instead of banning it completely, make it limited - like, "no clothing gachas" for example. some creators just abuse the system and make things that should NOT be gachas into gachas. but i'm glad this is being dealt with in some way at least.

Edited by Eksynn
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7 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

https://screenrant.com/lootbox-gambling-microtransactions-illegal-japan-china-belgium-netherlands/

Yes, it is a foretaste of what will happen with more countries passing legislation regulating gachas.

From that article:

"In April of 2018, the Netherlands Gaming Authority conducted a study of 10 unnamed games, and concluded that four of the games were in violation of Netherlands laws concerning gambling. To be exact, the study said (via PC Gamer), "that the content of these loot boxes is determined by chance and that the prizes to be won can be traded outside of the game: the prizes have a market value.".......

.......To date, only four countries have active laws regulating or banning the sell of loot boxes, but more are surely on the way. More and more countries have put together reports examining the problem, and the United States and the United Kingdom both have lawmakers calling for laws to be put into place. "

So to me the Netherlands has at least a better justification on this with the laws specifically geared to loot boxes that have value outside of the platform itself. Other than that, there is at present only 3 other counties who have laws in place and it is complete conjecture as to how stringent other counties will make their laws if and when they pass them through.

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1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

From that article:

"In April of 2018, the Netherlands Gaming Authority conducted a study of 10 unnamed games, and concluded that four of the games were in violation of Netherlands laws concerning gambling. To be exact, the study said (via PC Gamer), "that the content of these loot boxes is determined by chance and that the prizes to be won can be traded outside of the game: the prizes have a market value.".......

.......To date, only four countries have active laws regulating or banning the sell of loot boxes, but more are surely on the way. More and more countries have put together reports examining the problem, and the United States and the United Kingdom both have lawmakers calling for laws to be put into place. "

So to me the Netherlands has at least a better justification on this with the laws specifically geared to loot boxes that have value outside of the platform itself. Other than that, there is at present only 3 other counties who have laws in place and it is complete conjecture as to how stringent other counties will make their laws if and when they pass them through.

 

Read the whole article.

Quote

To date, only four countries have active laws regulating or banning the sell of loot boxes, but more are surely on the way. More and more countries have put together reports examining the problem, and the United States and the United Kingdom both have lawmakers calling for laws to be put into place. However, even if laws are passed, developers and publishers will likely still find loopholes. For instance, Bungie removed their version of loot boxes from Destiny, only to replace them with more predatory microtransactions. Time will tell how the political battle plays out but microtransactions aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

Edited by Silent Mistwalker
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46 minutes ago, Finite said:

I agree with this. I don't agree with the relationship between that and playing SL's version of gacha. Sorry.

Addiction?

Based on the first definition (below), and the obvious amount of irritability and angst on display among those who are seemingly going to miss gachas, or are trying to find dubious workaround for what is a simple to understand thing (legally gachas are going away) posting in this thread, seems to be indicative of something akin to addiction; i.e., the same dependance a junkie feels.

We're spinning wheels here, though. So many people are unable to admit the very simple fact of the why this is happening. Legal reasons. Simple as that. There's really nothing more to add.

1: a compulsive, chronic, physiological or psychological need for a habit-forming substance, behavior, or activity having harmful physical, psychological, or social effects and typically causing well-defined symptoms (such as anxiety, irritability, tremors, or nausea) upon withdrawal or abstinence
2: a strong inclination to do, use, or indulge in something repeatedly
 
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52 minutes ago, Finite said:

Hmm. I don't think you got the gist of what I said at all. I said gacha players not gambling or gamblers. Please if I am quoted or responded to do not take my words out of context or put new words in my mouth. Thank you.

Gosh (smh) ... gacha is gambling. Paying money for a result you can't know.

Edited by Katherine Heartsong
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