New Gacha Policy Discussion

[s2Pandora]

2 minutes ago, SativaStaryk said:

Where do we draw the line on this? What about random prize givers or lucky chairs? Its the same concept of a gacha. Will everything in fun be banned because some consider it "gambling" This is not skilled gaming, its all luck of the draw. Will we consider SL in its entirety gambling as it costs money to do anything...

Lucky chairs show no exchange of money. That is the line. If no money(or Linden) is used in getting that item out of luck, then I don't think it's affected.

[DeeJay Peapod]

Just now, Buddhy Singh said:

I totally support this decion, as this is identical to lottery.

Good desition, an alternative would be to play for it on gaming regions, and offer a direct buy.

explain how this is identical to the lottery? 

[Lucia Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Krow Ames said:

The only people that agree with this change are the ones that want items from gachas, but don't want to play the game.

You mean don't want to gamble and instead, just want to pay money for the make/model/style/color they want.

[Enoch SpiritWeaver]

Excellent. It is about time. Thank you, LL. 

[Jaiya Cloud]

2 minutes ago, SativaStaryk said:

Where do we draw the line on this? What about random prize givers or lucky chairs? Its the same concept of a gacha. Will everything in fun be banned because some consider it "gambling" This is not skilled gaming, its all luck of the draw. Will we consider SL in its entirety gambling as it costs money to do anything...

As long as the person isn't required to pay for it to get it, it's not gambling. Prize givers are fine.

[LukaWolfDog]

What a fantastic change.

I honestly hated gachas so much because even if I play yeah I get an item but that item to resell is sometimes worth less than the 75L or so L$ used to play. So in my opinion you can play and still be losing money since unless you're rolling a lot of items that *do* sell above the 75 or so play fee you're never making that money back. 

 

Besides its just a huge scam anyway especially for clothing. Upload one mesh and make 4 copies with each having 1 different texture and maybe one unique rare aside from it with a slightly different mesh. It always came off as a lazy way to generate revenue. I am not knocking the creative work that goes into these meshes but when you only have to model 1 static set and have it be in 6 colors and 1-2 rare, unique sets in 1-3 different colors, it becomes difficult to not see how much of a scam it is. That's not even mentioning that once 1 color texture is done how easy it is to change it on the fly in editing programs. 

[Torric Rodas]

I predict that people will change their machines to show the next 5 or 6 prizes in sequence, meaning that you have to pay the Gacha a known amount of times to get the big prize, or elect not to play at all if the prize you want is not shown.

If you knew the sequence of prizes, would this obviates the 'random chance' element and therefore make it 'legal'?

Furthermore if you display the next 5 prizes only and the big prize is actually 20 turns away, you could still say that those buying the 5 on display, still knew exactly what they were buying.  Thus its no longer a game of chance.

Actually you could just show the 'now' and 'next' prize in a hover text..  up to the resident if they want to buy it, and move ever closer to the big prize?

Would that be a solution?

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Torric Rodas

[Mellorious]

25 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

Why stop at casinos? They were banned in SL long ago. But using the line of thinking you refer to can also be extended to chocolate. Is chocolate the next thing to get the ax?

No, they didn't. No Devil/etc """skill gaming""" sims still exist just as much as they did before, and honestly they don't operate any differently on a fundamental level from the ones that were banned. It's legitimately nonsensical to go after creators' items first, it just funnels any of the problem gamblers that people keep talking about into the even worse option that LL themselves made and that they show no signs of getting rid of, and which is objectively more expensive to try at tbfh. If they cared about it from a gambling angle they'd be going about it differently, but they've gotten very quiet about the fact these sims still exist at all.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Mellorious

[Sora Cyclone]

2 minutes ago, Javen Latte said:

I think their hands are tied in this. It isn't only about lootboxes but also wording mentions microtransactions for items or partial items. I think that part of it is what really hurt gachas.

One could probably argue that there's a 'cash out' cycle with gacha items, too.  It takes some mental gymnastics, but selling the items for lindens and then cashing out those lindens could fall into a grey area as far as gambling goes.  If I can think of it, you know some bored and salivating regulator has.

2 minutes ago, DeeJay Peapod said:

I mean....LL gets that money regardless of gachas....i mean breedables act on the same principle.....

Breedable creators should be considering their options as well, since if they fall under the new 'gacha' policy, they're in violation as well.

[Patch Linden]

6 minutes ago, Dark Nebula said:

@Patch Linden If a creator has a giveaway gacha machine that gives items out for free, is this still a acceptable method of items being given out, even though those items have difference chances of being gotten. 

Correct, it would be the combination of the act that both paying in to then receive something back by chance that is one of the issues at hand...  If the "machine" is giving you a random item at chance with no pay in, that would be ok.  

For everyone else, I'm trying to stay caught up, but you are posting so fast that as I form up a post to address a handful of things, 12 more rolls in.  I'll try to get something out shortly for some of the other concerns I'm seeing.

[Courtney Huntsman]

Hoping this isn't a bit too much ::pops on my headphones::

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Courtney Huntsman
mispelling

[Send Starlight]

I have a dave & busters or chuckee cheese style board game hangout where a ticket system I developed gives "tickets" with zero linden value that can be turned in to retrieve random gachas from signs for fun. Will I need to remove this system completely?

In addition, I provide a "mulitplier" that allows players to tip the sim to get x2, x3, x4 tickets for up to 10 plays when they win so they acquire tickets faster. I also provide a 1x for free that provides 10 tickets a game. Paying for this is not required to play or receive the prizes. Players generally pay with effort and time spent simply playing the board games.

Even with this freeplay feature and the fact that the tickets don't hold value, will I be required to remove my system and the gacha prizes. Or, do I need to modify the way it works or remove it?

The system is located here: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Indian Paradise/117/69/2513

I need some guidance here.

[811Lord]

when i want to buy eggs, i don't stand in front of a slot machine until my whole shopping cart is full of non-copyable living food, and then maybe i get the eggs i want.....

[Asadora Summers]

10 minutes ago, Miu Margetts said:

lol just start making normal packs and stop shaking down whales

Yup! I agree!

Just take things and put them in a normal vendor and sell as is. I'm not sure as to why the minority of the people on this thread is making a big deal about needing more time than a month.
If someone wants to sell a rare, then just put it in a vendor or a box on it's own with an advert and price it as high as your hearts content.
 

[Sora Cyclone]

Just now, Send Starlight said:

I have a dave & busters or chuckee cheese style board game hangout where a ticket system I developed gives "tickets" with zero linden value that can be turned in to retrieve random gachas from signs for fun. Will I need to remove this system completely?

In addition, I provide a "mulitplier" that allows players to tip the sim to get x2, x3, x4 tickets for up to 10 plays when they win so they acquire tickets faster. I also provide a 1x for free that provides 10 tickets a game. Paying for this is not required to play or receive the prizes. Players generally pay with effort and time spent simply playing the board games.

Even with this freeplay feature and the fact that the tickets don't hold value, will I be required to remove my system and the gacha prizes. Or, do I need to modify the way it works or remove it?

The system is located here: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Indian Paradise/117/69/2513

I need some guidance here.

I think as long as there's no lindens/money involved, it should be fine.  The issue is using real money for a chance at an item, so your tickets with a zero-dollar value, should be fine.

[SativaStaryk]

3 minutes ago, s2Pandora said:

Lucky chairs show no exchange of money. That is the line. If no money(or Linden) is used in getting that item out of luck, then I don't think it's affected.

Lucky chairs require you to join the group at times, they groups sometimes cost L's again, where is the line. Me thinks people are just sore losers and cant control themselves, thus others suffer for their lack of control

 

[meowmeowzer]

19 minutes ago, Krow Ames said:

Based on desire. Because the creator puts "RARE" on it does not mean it's the most desirable item in the gacha. If a kid wants the blue gumball rather than the red one, the blue one is now more valuable. So now we have to regulate the level of desire? This is absolutely absurd. You're reaching for straws to justify your hardline stance against gambling. How authoritarian of you.

In a normal gumball, you'd have equal chances of getting the blue and the red. Most of the cases, the manufacturer even does the gumballs all the same flavor, just different colors, because they KNOW that if you put a more desirable flavor people will try and take the flavor they want. With all the same flavors, even if you like a gumball that is the color blue, you would be "eh, that's okay. I have a gumball anyway" and go on with your life.

 

What we see right now with gachas, is that you'd have a machine with 70% red gumballs that taste like rotten fish, 29% blue gumballs that are Ok At Best and will last you like 10 seconds of chewing, and 1% that is The Perfect Golden Gumball.

There are few creators that really use the Gumball Analogy on their gacha machines, and I can recite them by head. But listen, I've seen gachas that you HAD to have ALL the items for the gacha to work properly, INCLUDING THE RARE. I've seen gachas that you would roll L$75 and had the chance to win A SINGLE PANTY ITEM. How is that fair to the consumer? How would you "desire" a trash item that you don't want in your inventory? Some people will roll, and roll, and roll until they get what they want. There are people that spend hundreds of dollars in gachas because they see the value in it. How is that not gambling??

Edited August 2, 2021 by meowmeowzer
i don't know proper english lmao

[DeeJay Peapod]

well then we should all ban, breedables, sploders, any of the fishing games where you have to buy worms, because its all based on chance that you may or may not make a profit in return ergo if you breed horses but your not getting the value of those original horses after food and all the stuff thats required to maintain them, then its technically chance. sploders should be banned simply because its more gambling.

[Vic Mornington]

2 minutes ago, 811Lord said:

when i want to buy eggs, i don't stand in front of a slot machine until my whole shopping cart is full of non-copyable living food, and then maybe i get the eggs i want.....

881Lord drops the mic and walks off stage...

If a Gatya was done in RL it WOULD be regulated as gambling, no if's no but's.

[DeeJay Peapod]

1 minute ago, Vic Mornington said:

881Lord drops the mic and walks off stage...

If a Gatya was done in RL it WOULD be regulated as gambling, no if's no but's.

then why arent the claw machines or sticker machines outside of grocery stores and what not regulated as gambling?

[Alina Atheria]

Very simply, gachas were fun. I never saw this as gambling.  Will be missed.

[Cinos Field]

Finally.

Now creators will just have to prepare their virtual wallets because I'm going to buy all the ex-gacha items I want that they opt to keep selling.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

1.  I don't care much for gachas myself. But I'm really sorry for my fellow merchants and friends who love them. So, my sincere condoleances.

2. To anyone who thinks this will cause another mass exodus of SL residents: my guess is that LL weighed the odds and determined that mass exodus though gacha ban < avatar genocide though country ban.

3. I guess I can kiss my own little ongoing dev project, the Lucky Dip Random Gacha Resell Barrel, goodbye too.

 

[Vic Mornington]

Just now, DeeJay Peapod said:

then why arent the claw machines or sticker machines outside of grocery stores and what not regulated as gambling?

They are in a lot of countries.  The shop who has them has to have a license.

[PippaScott]

so whats the difference between a gacha and a grab bag? its still a random item.  this is going to put a ton of people out of business and make shopping to give gifts much harder than it has to be.  I get that the global gaming laws are at issue but i guess my question is this.  what ARE we allowed to do? low cost, high traffic gacha vendors made things accessible that maybe a lot cant afford at 2 or 3 k each