New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Drayke Newall]

16 minutes ago, Gryphon Ronas said:

OK, so you clearly have zero concept of the suggestion.

 

1. The gacha is history, you cannot keep it.

2. You stated that the purpose of the gacha was to let people have a fun way to not have to choose.  Why on Earth would someone keep spinning and not simply buy the freakin' thing?  Those people would not have used the gacha anyway, they'd have simple clicked and bought.

3. My suggestion was a way to approximate the experience.  I thought it was pretty plain to see, but I guess not.  The bottom line is that I saw someone losing an option, and thought Hey, I have an idea that will add some element of fun back....  Sorry, this is what I get for trying to offer ideas, and why I do not normally help unless I'm getting paid.  Just forget I mentioned it, and kiss your gacha goodbye.  Because the upshot of this is that the machine is on death row, it has no appeals left, and the execution date has been set.  R.I.P

You described a vendor with a button to make it randomly turn on an autocycle. Even with that it is still a vendor. The whole addiction and fun with gacha is that you get a prize every time you have a chance spin and therefore makes you keep going as you still are rewarded of which can sell later. It has nothing to do with the fun of pushing a button to get the prize. It is the end result. That is why it is considered predatory like lootboxes.

But hey if you think there is some worth in it and think people will stick around to spin a disc over and over and over for 20mins to get it to land on the item they want just so they can then and only then buy it. Go for it.

For me that just sounds frustrating and boring with no fun at all.

[Yuki Suki]

4 minutes ago, Finite said:

ha IKR? I don't even usually wear stuff like this but they look amazing. I had to get them. Now I'm at my friends dancing in my new schoolgirl outfit.

what do you mean. it looks good! ❤️

[Finite]

Just now, Hanjo Harvey said:

what do you mean. it looks good! ❤️

oh trust me Im loving this one.

[Gryphon Ronas]

1 minute ago, Drayke Newall said:

You described a vendor with a button to make it randomly turn on an autocycle. Even with that it is still a vendor. The whole addiction and fun with gacha is that you get a prize every time you have a chance spin and therefore makes you keep going as you still are rewarded of which can sell later. It has nothing to do with the fun of pushing a button to get the prize. It is the end result. That is why it is considered predatory like lootboxes.

But hey if you think there is some worth in it and think people will stick around to spin a disc over and over and over for 20mins to get it to land on the item they want just so they can then and only then buy it. Go for it.

For me that just sounds frustrating and boring with no fun at all.

Again....  You don't get it.  Drop it.  Have fun doing whatever you do.

[Faly Breen]

10 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

So if you dont feed them they basically become too sick to breed and consequently reduces their life span and breeding time. How is that a gacha? That's how normal husbandry works and the mechanic in SL is replicating that o.O.

okey. i think you need clearification.

again, The fennux will NOT be able to breed if you DONT pay for the food so basicly, you need to PAY that they CAN breed, got that?

And the OUTCOME will be somewhat random, of course, as well. So all similaritys of a gacha is there

You "PAY" for something "RANDOM". If you DONT "PAY", you get nothing out of it.

[Lucia Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Finite said:

I honestly think creators will just revert back to basic sets instead of the extravagant ones you see in gachas.

Or they'll just price things they already love creating accordingly and not based on how many pulls they think they can get?

There is obvious passion in creator's works. Gacha going away won't stop that.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Lucia Nightfire

[Drayke Newall]

4 minutes ago, Gryphon Ronas said:

Again....  You don't get it.  Drop it.  Have fun doing whatever you do.

No I get it. You are attempting to replicate the 'experience' of gachas by making a person spin a wheel that shows them what they can buy when it lands on that mark.

That is not a gacha and does not replicate a gacha experience at all. That is the equivalent of me holding a deck of cards upside down with various types of candy taped under them and saying pick a card and then if you dont like it you can put it pack in the hand and pick again.

[Drayke Newall]

7 minutes ago, Faly Breen said:

okey. i think you need clearification.

again, The fennux will NOT be able to breed if you DONT pay for the food so basicly, you need to PAY that they CAN breed, got that?

And the OUTCOME will be somewhat random, of course, as well. So all similaritys of a gacha is there

You "PAY" for something "RANDOM". If you DONT "PAY", you get nothing out of it.

If I have a red rose and a yellow rose and want to make a red and yellow rose. I put the two together (in basic terms) and then have to feed that plant to make it breed and survive. I cant see any difference between that and you having bought two horses and to make them survive and breed you have to give them food.

That is my opinion, but wait for lab to confirm though cant see why they would say different.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[Faly Breen]

1 minute ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Or they'll just price things they already love creating accordingly and not based on how many pulls they think they can get?

There is obvious passion in creator's works. Gacha going away won't stop that.

i think @Finite is there more right since a lot gacha creators put (way to much) actual effort into their things willingly to know that some of their stuff is actually "rare". with this factor gone, where will be this factor if everyone can literally "just buy it"? I mean the "thing" about gachas was this "curiotisty" what you will get. with that literally gone, it will more or less end as a boring window shopping trip now.

[Gryphon Ronas]

Just now, Drayke Newall said:

No I get it. You are attempting to replicate the 'experience' of gachas by making a person spin a wheel that shows them what they can buy when it lands on that mark.

That is not a gacha and does not replicate a gacha experience at all. That is the equivalent of me holding a deck of cards upside down with various types of candy taped under them and saying pick a card and then if you dont like it you can put it pack in the hand and pick again.

You have proven well beyond a shadow of a doubt that you didn't get what I was saying.  Do you think your customers are that stupid that they would stand spinning the wheel till it came up what they wanted?  Such a low opinion of them. 

Or perhaps you simply forgot what you yourself said was the purpose of the gacha.

Either way, Not my circus, not my monkeys.  Don't care one way or another.  I tried, god knows why, but thanks for reminding me .

[Faly Breen]

1 minute ago, Drayke Newall said:

No, you are also paying for the food to make that animal live and not turn into a vanity pet.

Nooo...oi jesus... just go into Secondlife and look for the Fennux main land, im srsly growing sick of explaining this breedables like the 5.time now and i think thats understandable.

[Asadora Summers]

9 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

We would appreciate hearing about why a "changing regulatory climate" makes it necessary to outlaw Gatcha. One would assume that this is a consequence of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (UIGEA). The intent there was to make it illegal to gamble on the internet.... but how is "gambling" defined? The law includes the following as a definition of betting...purchasing an "opportunity" to win a lottery. Is that what a Gatcha is? Is it some sort of illegal lottery.

In Gatcha, one pays real money to receive a product (not an opportunity). The possible products are known. Depending on the buyer, some have more value than others.  Is this case covered by UIGEA? That would be a huge stretch!

Does this mean that LINDEN HOMEs will also be (in blog language) "sunsetted"?  In the Game of Homes, one pays a recurring fee to gain an opportunity to receive a Linden Home based on chance (assuming there are even any available). Sound familiar?

Tis a slippery slope we stand on!

Actually.....

When you pay for a premium membership, you get choices regarding a LL home or a plot of 1024sqm of Mainland - it's included in your membership, but you CHOOSE which one you want. If you want a free LL home it is a choice that you make. There are a slew of different LL homes in various LL regions with differing themes. Again you have a choice.
If you don't want a LL home and want to use that 1024sqm land on Mainland then you have even more choices!
So, no LL homes won't be 'sunsetted'.
A premium membership is a solid transactions of services in which one can choose from. You know exactly what you are gonna get with being a premium member.
One more thing, yes there are some LL homes that are more popular than others but again, it's your choice that you want to live there.
Ahh yes one more thing, when you log into SL you have entered into an agreement with LL and all it's services (including MP and third party vendors, like Tilia). LL is under no obligation to promise you what content creators make or sell.
Also, in the TOS Skill Gaming Policy Skill gaming is defined as the following:

Skill Game” or “Skill Gaming” shall mean a game, implemented through an Inworld object: 1) whose outcome is determined by skill and is not contingent, in whole or in material part, upon chance; 2) requires or permits the payment of Linden Dollars to play; 3) provides a payout in Linden Dollars; and 4) is legally authorized by applicable United States and international law. Games in which Second Life residents do not pay to play are not within the scope of this Skill Gaming Policy. “Skill Games” are not intended to include and shall not include “gambling” as defined by applicable United States and international law.
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Second_Life_Skill_Gaming_Policy

Gachas are chance which can be manipulated by the seller, not the buyer. Gachas are not a 'skill'.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Asadora Summers
Included Skill Gaming Policy Link

[qzxr]

I'll miss playing the gachas. I'm an adult and I have full impulse control, and not addicted personality disorder or anything. I have spent a lot on gachas in the past, but never more than I was planning to spend in advance. I totally get though, that some have spent more than they planned to, and that for some, it could become an addiction. There's a setting in account preferences where people can limit the amount of money they upload to SL, and I guess that's something that not everyone has done.

The fact that the EU is putting an end to lootboxes in all games is not something LL can be blamed for, obviously. A huge chunk of SL's player base is from EU, and from what I have read in this thread, it seems like many states in the US are following in those footsteps. The one thing I will miss the most, is stuffing my friends inventories with random gachas. Sure, I can just buy a giftie instead, but it's not the same. And there's nothing exciting about a normal vendor.

LL has to follow the law, and that's just the way it is, but I'll still miss the gachas.

Just my 2 cents. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

I get what people are saying about breedables. It is highly unlikely that LL will classify them as gachas. Mainly because they do not met all the "technical" requirements of a gacha. some of you are splitting hairs with the food thing. Having to buy food to keep a breedable alive doesn't make it a gacha, nor does the randomness of any features that may result from breeding. It's not like you are placing bets on what color the critter will be when it's born.... or are you?

 

[Drayke Newall]

6 minutes ago, Gryphon Ronas said:

You have proven well beyond a shadow of a doubt that you didn't get what I was saying.  Do you think your customers are that stupid that they would stand spinning the wheel till it came up what they wanted?  Such a low opinion of them. 

Or perhaps you simply forgot what you yourself said was the purpose of the gacha.

Either way, Not my circus, not my monkeys.  Don't care one way or another.  I tried, god knows why, but thanks for reminding me .

This is what you said:

"If they spin a 5, they buy #5 and you have accomplished the same thing. The key difference is that when they made that transaction, they know what they were getting."

Sorry but that read exactly like I said it does. A person spins a board and it lands on 5 and then they can buy that. You say that accomplishes the same thing as a gacha. I am saying it achieves nothing like a gacha, not even close to the same thing, experience or anything else.

[kiwi Wulluf]

i'm not a gatcha critic, though i can see why they might genuinely cause problems with some. i do have some ideas though

1) rather then ban them outright, could we put a limit on how many we can buy? for instance, one purchase per kiosk per day. or having only a limited amount available at any given time, say 100 per day

2) make it so we can only buy them in packs of 7 or something. in RL, i'm much more likely to buy multiples of things like blind bags, then packs of something like football stickers or pokemon cards. while i could buy as many packs as i like, it's not left to me to decide exactly how many i need, since i can only but them in quantities of 10 or whatever the case may be. it's no longer possible for me to have just one, and unlikely for me to be left with left with duplicates (i know swapsies and reselling are things too. allot of the gatchas i have are from where friends have offloaded dupes to me, the rare bunnybean i wear now being one such case)

3), this is my favourite; what often prevents me from indulging on gatcha-like venders  in RL is that fact that they often require a curtain coin. recently i've come across machines that offer small plastic sloths of llamas in exchange for 2 £1 coins. nothing else will do. you can't use cards, notes or any other combination of coins. it's like those coin crusher machines, where you often need a £1 coin as well as your penny, to crush

what i'm thinking is venders where you can't buy with L$, but instead take some sort of gatcha token. these tokens are non transferable and have a daily cap. you can offer them as part of the premium membership too. combined with the multipack idea, we could thereby be limited to 5 packs of 10 items per day, which should be enough for anyone

wouldn't something like this be better then an outright ban? as apposed to actual gambling, you do get something for you're money with gatchas. rather then spending L$1k on one avatar of a chosen colour or style, we can have 6 random L$150 avs to play with and still have change. we can buy one (or snag one from a friend) to see if we like it. while i can see how they could be genuinely addictive, it would be a massive bummer to see them go away entirely

[Asadora Summers]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I get what people are saying about breedables. It is highly unlikely that LL will classify them as gachas. Mainly because they do not met all the "technical" requirements of a gacha. some of you are splitting hairs with the food thing. Having to buy food to keep a breedable alive doesn't make it a gacha, nor does the randomness of any features that may result from breeding. It's not like you are placing bets on what color the critter will be when it's born.... or are you?

 

Regarding breedables this is the way I look at it:

It's a breedable meaning that it has to be paired in order to give an offspring. And as Humans we should all understand that we don't know what our babies are gonna be until they are birthed.
Compare that to Gacha it's all in the name: Got ya! .... sucker....

😁😂

[Drayke Newall]

14 minutes ago, Faly Breen said:

Nooo...oi jesus... just go into Secondlife and look for the Fennux main land, im srsly growing sick of explaining this breedables like the 5.time now and i think thats understandable.

Apologies I edited my post afterwards and removed the "to live" part whilst you were clearly responding.

Let me put it this way:

Do you have to go to your horse, right click and pay L$100 on it and the horse gives you a new horse that is different? No.

You are using food as a trigger to breed two ALREADY OWNED horses together to get a breed that can only result from an outcome from those horses you already own. The food is a trigger to breed something already owned. It is not you purchasing an unknown item from a box.

:EDIT:

The script for the randomness of the breeding is in the horse not the food. This shows that the food is simply a trigger and not a gacha.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Asadora Summers said:

Regarding breedables this is the way I look at it:

It's a breedable meaning that it has to be paired in order to give an offspring. And as Humans we should all understand that we don't know what our babies are gonna be until they are birthed.
Compare that to Gacha it's all in the name: Got ya! .... sucker....

😁😂

 

*coughs* ultrasound/sonogram *coughs* 🤭

[Altier Verwood]

This is a very good choice, and the people complaining or wanting a way around it just want more time to scam more people out of their hard earned money, shame on them. Gatchapon are gambling and in SL are unregulated, I have seen several videos logs and other things exposing content creators putting their rarest item at a 0% chance to be drawn.

good for you LL.

[Tetsuryu Vlodovic]

Good riddance. I for one won't miss people splitting complete sets or outfits into individual parts with multiple colours with essential pieces made into rares, making them nearly impossible to complete without throwing thousands of lindens at resellers. And what if I end up spending so much money trying to complete the set at a gacha machine myself that in the end I might've spent LESS money just buying that reseller fatpack instead? Yeah, no thanks. Gacha may benefit creators but is an absolute disease on everybody else.

2 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

You are using food as a trigger to breed two ALREADY OWNED horses together to get a breed that can only result from an outcome from those horses you already own. The food is a trigger to breed something already owned. It is not you purchasing an unknown item from a box.

So like having to buy a key for a box you can get for free? That just sounds like a lootcrate.

 

[Asadora Summers]

Just now, Drayke Newall said:

Apologies I edited my post afterwards and removed the "to live" part.

Let me put it this way:

Do you have to go to your horse, right click and pay L$100 on it and the horse gives you a new horse that is different? No.

You are using food as a trigger to breed two ALREADY OWNED horses together to get a breed that can only result from an outcome from those horses you already own. The food is a trigger to breed something already owned. It is not you purchasing an unknown item from a box.

 

I just want to take this time and say that it is heartwarmingly concerning that people are worried about their breedables. I'm hoping this is out of love for their breedable pets and not out of personal greed of profit.
I love my KittyCatS! They keep me company on my land. Before I had them, legacy prims were my companions; however, I'm so used to having my virtual cats push me, throw butterfiles at me and demand to be picked up... that I'd be sad if they were gone.
Seriously though, your post is on point. It's not gambling if your two paired up mother and father of breedables have an offspring, that's just nature.

[Asadora Summers]

3 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

*coughs* ultrasound/sonogram *coughs* 🤭

Oooo yeah! I forgot about that! Well, as you can tell I don't have kids. But I was making a point, dang it!

😂😂

[Drayke Newall]

13 minutes ago, Tetsuryu Vlodovic said:

So like having to buy a key for a box you can get for free? That just sounds like a lootcrate.

No because you are already enjoying the two horses you ALREADY OWN of which you can interact with, pretty up your sim etc without the need to use a trigger. The only time you need to use the food is if you want to breed your already owned horses.

A lootbox you cannot enjoy until you open it.

:EDIT:

Of course Linden Lab could disagree with me and say otherwise, however they would be making a huge mistake if they did.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[Finite]

13 minutes ago, Altier Verwood said:

This is a very good choice, and the people complaining or wanting a way around it just want more time to scam more people out of their hard earned money, shame on them. Gatchapon are gambling and in SL are unregulated, I have seen several videos logs and other things exposing content creators putting their rarest item at a 0% chance to be drawn.

good for you LL.

Me paying less for a superior product is somehow me being scammed? Enjoy paying 2500L for premade color changer fatpacks. And check your inventory, it's very likely you've bought the same outfit twice from different vendors. I'll sit back and laugh while unpacking all my old gachas xD. I love the notion that buying something outright in SL is somehow more frugal than playing a gacha. No matter how you do it, you put money into a video game. There's nothing frugal about it regardless of what you bought with it.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Finite