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I very much agree when the item in question is entirely unknown, but what about trivial differences in items, such as different colors or textures?

For example, a series of identical shirts with different collectible colors or images that aren't available otherwise. I imagine that is also disallowed, but doesn't seem like it's as mean-spirited as gachas are currently. 

... Third attempt at posting

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1 hour ago, Mellorious said:

No, they didn't. No Devil/etc """skill gaming""" sims still exist just as much as they did before, and honestly they don't operate any differently on a fundamental level from the ones that were banned. It's legitimately nonsensical to go after creators' items first, it just funnels any of the problem gamblers that people keep talking about into the even worse option that LL themselves made and that they show no signs of getting rid of, and which is objectively more expensive to try at tbfh. If they cared about it from a gambling angle they'd be going about it differently, but they've gotten very quiet about the fact these sims still exist at all.

It's debatable whether no devil is a game of skill as the numbers come out randomly.

The only  alleged 'skill' in that  game is decided to use a number that may droop the spider  at a bad moment or hold and hope the number repeats.

 

it has about as much skill as a game of Pontoon, a gambling game that is banned.

It's not a cse of why did they go after creaters first, but why Nodevil is allowed to  avoid comming under the wire gambling  laws, and have been banned years ago.

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I'm almost glad, though I enjoy gachas. Recently I've bought a couple of gachas that automatically became copy/no transfer after opening the box which is crap in my book. Particularly since one of them didn't have 2 important pieces and the creator never returned my NC. I think it's time to get rid of my gacha stash though.

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2 hours ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

I always explained-equated gachas to a bubble gum machine.

You know for a quarter you will get a gum ball, but not the color-flavor.  I never felt it was gambling because gambling involves risk of loosing money, where as you get a prize every try with gachas.  
I know my opinion is my own & that there must be reasons the decision was made.  Just =/ to see they’ll be gone.

Well yes and now, this is true for single items in multiple colors. Whatever the color you get, you can still eat your gum ball. But when you see some creators dividing their outfits in 11 parts in multiple colors and needing one of the rare to get a complete outfit, you can do multiple pulls and end up with nothing useable

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Just now, Pazako Karu said:

I very much agree when the item in question is entirely unknown, but what about trivial differences in items, such as different colors or textures?

For example, a series of identical shirts with different collectible colors or images that aren't available otherwise. I imagine that is also disallowed, but doesn't seem like it's as mean-spirited as gachas are currently. 

... Third attempt at posting

Doesn't matter what is IN the gacha. If you pay for a chance to get a random item/color/whathaveyou then it's a gacha and no longer allowed.

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4 minutes ago, Pazako Karu said:

I very much agree when the item in question is entirely unknown, but what about trivial differences in items, such as different colors or textures?

For example, a series of identical shirts with different collectible colors or images that aren't available otherwise. I imagine that is also disallowed, but doesn't seem like it's as mean-spirited as gachas are currently. 

... Third attempt at posting

It has nothing to do with how mean-spirited a gacha is.. rules and regulations are happening as it pertains to lootboxes in gaming and gachas are being included in those regulations. You don't have to like it but, the law is the law.

Edited by Emms Sygall
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7 minutes ago, DeeJay Peapod said:

I mean if people enjoy playing them and they arent overly scammy which a good number arent, why should everyone suffer because people have a varying opinions? by this logic they should ban, anything thats fattening, cars, bikes, video games, music....potentially anything that may be harmful to someones dissenting opinion

The reason is that LL is likely to get sued or regulated out of existence. As for your list of things: LL has nothing to do with any of them so I dunno how they are relevant as comparisons.

The best thing about SL burgers is that you can eat as many as you want and *never* get fat (except by your own choice!)

Edited by Alan Cyr
spelling & clarity
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@Patch Linden

Reading through this thus far I have a few questions just to better understand.

1) Anything that has "a chance-based outcome as a result of a payment" is considered to be violating the Gaming Policy.

I am reading this as: the product obtained must be identical in every way upon delivery of purchase. Example: color, options, traits, etc.

Does this then mean:

1) Products that have any mystery of their potential content are violating this due to the chance of what might be obtained upon payment?

2) Breedables that provide a chance for traits, or other any other aspect, that are obtained as a result of payment violate this policy?

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3 minutes ago, DeeJay Peapod said:

I mean if people enjoy playing them and they arent overly scammy which a good number arent, why should everyone suffer because people have a varying opinions? by this logic they should ban, anything thats fattening, cars, bikes, video games, music....potentially anything that may be harmful to someones dissenting opinion

Uh oh. Time to ban the internet. It's fattening. All those people just sitting there doing nothing all day long in front of computers. 

*internet is officially banned*

Hmm. For some strange reason millions of people are out of jobs now. Nah. It couldn't possible be because we no longer have internet.

 

Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it. In spades.

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2 minutes ago, Argent Stonecutter said:

Was there any consideration to just banning "complete gatcha" where you needed to successfully collect multiple items to get a product?

That's included in this umbrella-ban, but I don't think those were particularly the reason for the ban in the first place, though. But those are far worse yeah.

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1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Uh oh. Time to ban the internet. It's fattening. All those people just sitting there doing nothing all day long in front of computers. 

*internet is officially banned*

Hmm. For some strange reason millions of people are out of jobs now. Nah. It couldn't possible be because we no longer have internet.

 

Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it. In spades.

God i dont wish for any of that but seriously.....all the blanket laws...and just one bad decision after another by politicians and the general populace at what point does it end....

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This is a terrible decision. As a content creator, I know that a good portion of merchant income comes from gacha machines. I can say with confidence that it will also deeply impact the fund raising that Second Life does for real life causes. My two little gacha machines I put into the American Cancer Society Spring Home & Garden Expo raised a combined L$23,000 during that one event (roughly $100 US dollars) for ACS. Removing gachas will add up to a significant loss of donations to many worth while causes. I am fortunate because my store holds it's own with or without gacha machines, but this decision will cause some merchants to close their doors with insufficient income to pay their tier. Linden Labs will feel this in their own pocketbooks. I believe that society needs to stop punishing everyone because of the few who do not take responsibility for their own actions. Adults should decide for themselves how to spend their money. No one forces anyone to play a gacha machine. If someone does not wish to take a chance on the game, simply move on and do not play it. If you have an addiction problem... get help. It is not everyone's responsibilty to change because you have an issue. With all this being said, where do these types of decsions stop? Will all the pixel bars in SL close next because some people are real life alcoholics? 

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1 minute ago, DeeJay Peapod said:

God i dont wish for any of that but seriously.....all the blanket laws...and just one bad decision after another by politicians and the general populace at what point does it end....

About the time humans either eliminate themselves or realize they are on the verge of extinction before too much longer and change their ways.

I hate it but it's true.

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1 minute ago, rasterscan said:

BANNING GACHAS ? THAT'S IT ! I'M OFF ! PREMIUM MEMBER HERE WITH 47 YEARS IN THE GAME YA FINALLY LOST ME GRRR

Oh my god, so happy to meet someone who has been in Second Life since 1974!

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9 minutes ago, Fionne Burleigh said:

I'm almost glad, though I enjoy gachas. Recently I've bought a couple of gachas that automatically became copy/no transfer after opening the box which is crap in my book. Particularly since one of them didn't have 2 important pieces and the creator never returned my NC. I think it's time to get rid of my gacha stash though.

This happened to me as well. I rez'd it to see if i wanted to keep it or sell it and it turned copy/no trans on me lol.

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1 minute ago, Roxy Bergiere said:

This is a terrible decision. As a content creator, I know that a good portion of merchant income comes from gacha machines. I can say with confidence that it will also deeply impact the fund raising that Second Life does for real life causes. My two little gacha machines I put into the American Cancer Society Spring Home & Garden Expo raised a combined L$23,000 during that one event (roughly $100 US dollars) for ACS. Removing gachas will add up to a significant loss of donations to many worth while causes. I am fortunate because my store holds it's own with or without gacha machines, but this decision will cause some merchants to close their doors with insufficient income to pay their tier. Linden Labs will feel this in their own pocketbooks. I believe that society needs to stop punishing everyone because of the few who do not take responsibility for their own actions. Adults should decide for themselves how to spend their money. No one forces anyone to play a gacha machine. If someone does not wish to take a chance on the game, simply move on and do not play it. If you have an addiction problem... get help. It is not everyone's responsibilty to change because you have an issue. With all this being said, where do these types of decsions stop? Will all the pixel bars in SL close next because some people are real life alcoholics? 

Gosh how did fundraisers ever do before Gacha's were a thing!?

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The big difference I can see is that in EA games, et al,  you pretty much NEED the loot boxes in order to stay competitive in their games.  That or dedicate thousands of hours to grinding to get the same pay off.

Since there's no competitive advantage to loot boxes here, I don't think its an equitable comparison.  I don't much care for gachas. I've played a few where I don't really care what color I get.  But many people enjoy them and I'll be sad to see them go.

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I haven't read the whole thread but my only question is what happens to gatchas that are inworld and the makers have gone and the store is a zombie?

 

Also, I feel sad that a lot of the stuff that was in gatcha will probably just go away.

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