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New Gacha Policy Discussion


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19 minutes ago, CelestineDemetria said:

Was thinking maybe skirts.. You could breed a whole herd of wearable outfits.

🤪

🤣  Brilliant...breedable clothes...now you can breed the rares, to hell with gacha 😂

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1 minute ago, CelestineDemetria said:

To me the way you put it sounds correct. "Known" attributes need to be known to buyer "Unknown" things are okay for down the line. 

But who knows it's SL.-Shrugs-

Exactly why they need to re-word that to say something more along the lines of "known/visible or base traits must be disclosed at the time of purchase", although I'm certain they can word it much, much better, lol. Otherwise it's just going to be another point of contention and another 50 pages of personal interpretations. I'm sure they'll fix it though, they'll get enough backlash from people that they'll have to, lol. 

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1 minute ago, Tari Landar said:

Exactly why they need to re-word that to say something more along the lines of "known/visible or base traits must be disclosed at the time of purchase", although I'm certain they can word it much, much better, lol. Otherwise it's just going to be another point of contention and another 50 pages of personal interpretations. I'm sure they'll fix it though, they'll get enough backlash from people that they'll have to, lol. 

Hahaha. Right.

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14 minutes ago, Dictatorshop said:

Having read the majority of this thread's pages, with suggested workarounds and rolling vendors I just really need to ask why this even needs to be a thing?  Seriously as a creator and merchant of long standing in SL I honestly cannot understand why people cannot simply put a FAIR PRICE on their work and sell it without the need to turn their customers into shills.  

I realize what a sucker punch this must feel like right now to some, but is it so hard to contemplate just being straight with you customers and giving them a good value for their linden dollars?

I have read many justifications for why gachas are good, low point of entry etc. But it just doesn't pass the smell test if you lean in for a good whiff.

I encourage creators to take this as an opportunity.  All the gacha creators are in the same boat and instead of paddling in circles to try to find ways around the new ban just go about your business the way that those of us without significant gachas have been doing it for years.  You MIGHT do better than you think.  Just my two lindens for what it's worth.

Thank you, this is literally why my blood has been boiling.

From what I have noticed those that create gachas tend not to create store releases or stand-alone items.  Their stock is likely entirely based off of using gachas to predate on their customers as some sort of cash cow. This new "conveyer system" is just the same as Gacha but reversed. Even though a customer may know what they are getting - they do not know what they might be getting next.  This does not take the gambling out of the machine, instead it just retroactively reversed the process and created extra steps and increased the potential for abuse and customer infighting.

TLDR: Customers may KNOW what they are getting, but they do NOT KNOW what they are getting NEXT - still gambling. In other words, instead of gambling for a chance at random item, they are gambling for a chance to have a chance to buy the intended item. Eventually I am sure there will be a law against this as well so I have no idea why Linden Labs would clear this.

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So now instead of paying for something unknown that might be what you really want, you pay for things you know you don't want in order to get what you do want.  

* walks off, shaking her head, mumbling something about a fool and his money.

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6 minutes ago, xAmbiguityx said:

Eventually I am sure there will be a law against this as well so I have no idea why Linden Labs would clear this.

lawyers give legal opinions of what they understand the law/regulations to be at the moment. Not on what it might be in the future

for sure the regulations/laws might change, til then it seems Linden are content to go with it as it is now

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11 minutes ago, xAmbiguityx said:

TLDR: Customers may KNOW what they are getting, but they do NOT KNOW what they are getting NEXT - still gambling. In other words, instead of gambling for a chance at random item, they are gambling for a chance to have a chance to buy the intended item. Eventually I am sure there will be a law against this as well so I have no idea why Linden Labs would clear this.

Buying a roll and getting a known trash item is just worse every way you look at it, it's almost like they are primed to exploit addictive tendencies in ways gacha could only ever dream.

Because lets not pretend. You're not buying the item on display, you're buying a chance to buy something else.

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6 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Buying a roll and getting a known trash item is just worse every way you look at it, it's almost like they are primed to exploit addictive tendencies in ways gacha could only ever dream.

Because lets not pretend. You're not buying the item on display, you're buying a chance to buy something else.

Exactly, it's disturbing it is even being considered as allowable.  The only difference is what you're gambling for, you're still not getting what you want either which way.

10 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

lawyers give legal opinions of what they understand the law/regulations to be at the moment. Not on what it might be in the future

for sure the regulations/laws might change, til then it seems Linden are content to go with it as it is now

Though they understand the law/regulations at the moment, they should also look into the future. Gachas have always been gambling but they skirted the rules because you didn't lose - you always win, just not what you want. So to avoid another situation like this Gacha ban, it'd be much easier to do a blanket ban, elsewise we'll be having this same conversation a few months/years later down the line - because these two systems are same process.  It's all gambling, in one you're gambling for the item, in another your gambling for the chance to pay for the item.  Doesn't seem all that appealing does it?

16 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

So now instead of paying for something unknown that might be what you really want, you pay for things you know you don't want in order to get what you do want.  

* walks off, shaking her head, mumbling something about a fool and his money.

Precisely, which leaves a very bad taste in my mouth; both as a creator and a customer. The whole idea is gross/predatory and will likely come to a head as just as Gachas are now. People need to boycott these systems if/when they come out - otherwise its just a rebranded Gacha Epidemic.

Edited by xAmbiguityx
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3 minutes ago, xAmbiguityx said:

Exactly, it's disturbing it is even being considered as allowable.  The only difference is what you're gambling for, you're still not getting what you want either which way.

Though they understand the law/regulations at the moment, they should also look into the future. Gachas have always been gambling but they skirted the rules because you didn't lose - you always win, just not what you want. So to avoid another situation like this Gacha ban, it'd be much easier to do a blanket ban, elsewise we'll be having this same conversation a few months/years later down the line - because these two systems are same process.  It's all gambling, in one you're gambling for the item, in another your gambling for the chance to pay for the item.  Doesn't seem all that appeal does it?

Precisely, which leaves a very bad taste in my mouth; both as a creator and a customer. The whole idea is gross/predatory and will likely come to a head as just as Gachas are now. People need to boycott these systems if/when they come out - otherwise its just a rebranded Gacha Epidemic.

"New" Vendor System. "A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing". Same deal just Rebranding of the model.

Glad as a creator you say something. Because this Idea was supposedly thought up to help the current creators continue to be able to sell. More like the current buyers getting the same "thrill".

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2 minutes ago, CelestineDemetria said:

"New" Vendor System. "A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing". Same deal just Rebranding of the model.

Glad as a creator you say something. Because this Idea was supposedly thought up to help the current creators continue to be able to sell. More like the current buyers getting the same "thrill".

I can assure you from the circles I am in, this is most defiantly not the case. I feel for the creators that need gachas to pay their bills, but employing an addictive practice unto their customers is not the Hill to die on.

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3 minutes ago, xAmbiguityx said:

Exactly, it's disturbing it is even being considered as allowable.  The only difference is what you're gambling for, you're still not getting what you want either which way.

Though they understand the law/regulations at the moment, they should also look into the future. Gachas have always been gambling but they skirted the rules because you didn't lose - you always win, just not what you want. So to avoid another situation like this Gacha ban, it'd be much easier to do a blanket ban, elsewise we'll be having this same conversation a few months/years later down the line - because these two systems are same process.  It's all gambling, in one you're gambling for the item, in another your gambling for the chance to pay for the item.  Doesn't seem all that appeal does it?

Precisely, which leaves a very bad taste in my mouth; both as a creator and a customer. The whole idea is gross/predatory and will likely come to a head as just as Gachas are now. People need to boycott these systems if/when they come out - otherwise its just a rebranded Gacha Epidemic.

At this point, seeing any merchant using that systems will tell me, and I'm sure many others, just what that merchant is all about.  But you know what?  People will be lining up to play...right after their GA meeting.

 

1 minute ago, CelestineDemetria said:

"New" Vendor System. "A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing". Same deal just Rebranding of the model.

Glad as a creator you say something. Because this Idea was supposedly thought up to help the current creators continue to be able to sell. More like the current buyers getting the same "thrill".

But without the thrill.  You already KNOW you're buying something you don't want.  That anticipation, waiting for the notice of what you got?  Gone.  Crap, the next thing isn't what I want either.  Dangit.  This one isn't it either but I'll buy it anyway.  Oh hell,  have to pee....can't leave or I'll get locked out and that person next to me will swoop in and get the one I want.   Rather comical.

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25 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

So now instead of paying for something unknown that might be what you really want, you pay for things you know you don't want in order to get what you do want.  

* walks off, shaking her head, mumbling something about a fool and his money.

Exactly! As a consumer I think I'm just going to boycott all the stores that adapt this "conveyor belt" system and patronize the creators that create things and sell them without a "gimmick" for a fair price.  I don't think creators are thinking this through very well and the fact that ALL their customers are on this thread reading how they are trying to get their customers to spend more money instead of just being fair and selling the item for what it's worth. Walks off right behind you.

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9 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

At this point, seeing any merchant using that systems will tell me, and I'm sure many others, just what that merchant is all about.  But you know what?  People will be lining up to play...right after their GA meeting.

 

But without the thrill.  You already KNOW you're buying something you don't want.  That anticipation, waiting for the notice of what you got?  Gone.  Crap, the next thing isn't what I want either.  Dangit.  This one isn't it either but I'll buy it anyway.  Oh hell,  have to pee....can't leave or I'll get locked out and that person next to me will swoop in and get the one I want.   Rather comical.

People will honestly just use alts. Boop between both and get to the item quicker. If ya just have to be in proximity of the machine easy enough.

Right.LOL.

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22 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Buying a roll and getting a known trash item is just worse every way you look at it, it's almost like they are primed to exploit addictive tendencies in ways gacha could only ever dream.

Because lets not pretend. You're not buying the item on display, you're buying a chance to buy something else.

And this will lead to even more complications as well.  Imagine if these replace current Gacha shopping Events?  First, you have the standard sim lag since LL, much as I love them, can't handle the load at any event, ever.  I know exactly how this is going to go.

-Right Click, Pay, Error Device in use(If they can even add that to LSL)

-Right Click, Pay, Get an Item you didn't want, since a dozen or so are using the machine at the same time.

-Right Click, Pay, Due to server Latency the sold item is not being displayed properly with the improper texture being loaded after someone just used it.

-Right Click, Pay, Wait....  Wait....  Get Item, not the one you want due to server latency as someone had already purchased the displayed item.

-Right Click, Pay, Ten people used the machine, each one wanting that one item, each one now has a different item or the script broke, only one person has the item that was displayed

And of course, my personal favorite

Wait... wait....  come on, someone buy this junk!   I don't want to roll the dice to buy, I want item #7 not Item #11!  Woo, someone bought something twenty minutes later!  Oh....  It's now item #3.   How is this NOT still a Gacha?!

Only way this would even remotely work, is changing it to Lucky Chair style, and that displayed Item will remain for a Set time of like 5 minutes, and randomly change every 5 minutes so purchase isn't necessary to change.

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2 minutes ago, CelestineDemetria said:

People will honestly just use alts. Boop between both and get to the item quicker. If ya just have to be in proximity of the machine easy enough.

Right.LOL.

Side thought. Is this not like people who open up lootboxes or similar selling "Boxes" and sell off the items as people see them? Bunch of "DUD items pop out but Ohh a Cool item, I'll take it.

Its just a opened "Gacha" where you can choose to get through the content you don't want in hopes of that one cool thing popping up that you do want.

Shrugs. Smh

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20 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

At this point, seeing any merchant using that systems will tell me, and I'm sure many others, just what that merchant is all about.  But you know what?  People will be lining up to play...right after their GA meeting.

 

But without the thrill.  You already KNOW you're buying something you don't want.  That anticipation, waiting for the notice of what you got?  Gone.  Crap, the next thing isn't what I want either.  Dangit.  This one isn't it either but I'll buy it anyway.  Oh hell,  have to pee....can't leave or I'll get locked out and that person next to me will swoop in and get the one I want.   Rather comical.

Side thought. Is this not like people who open up lootboxes or similar selling "Boxes" and sell off the items as people see them? Bunch of "DUD items pop out but Ohh a Cool item, I'll take it.

Its just a opened "Gacha" where you can choose to get through the content you don't want in hopes of that one cool thing popping up that you do want.

Shrugs. Smh

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1 hour ago, Elyssa Artis said:

No, I don't, but without giving a firm guideline (aka, not something that has the word example anywhere), you can see 3 people at least had 3 different ideas about what it meant.
So if that comes down to only color being known, then say that. Color must be known, all other traits being unknown is acceptable.
Sometimes the shortest answer is the clearest.

You are asking for something to be cut and dry that can't be cut and dry.

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1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

bouncing of the HUD idea

we would mostly likely have to grant debit permission to these kinds of HUDs

Not happening. Ever. 

I mean, no way in hell will I ever agree to granting debit permission. I know where that leads. No effing way.

Edited by Silent Mistwalker
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12 hours ago, MoiraKathleen said:

Patch said in the FAQ regarding breedables "Lastly, the resale of any breedables will require at the time of purchase that the purchaser knows what they are purchasing at the root level (for example, it is a blue cat). "  

To me, the key part of that sentence is the "what they are purchasing at the root level" where I would interpret "root level" to be the most important aspects/traits to be known about that type of breedable which is in the box or bag being purchased  (such as color for a cat, for example). 

I don't do breedables, so I don't know what the most important aspect(s) are for any given type of breedable,  so if for cats, it's color, ear shapes and tail, than perhaps that's what should be included in the description, just to be on the safe side - if those are things that are actually known?   

 

Example: 

Persian, Smoke tortoiseshell, Male

Labrador, Chocolate, Male

Tennessee Walker, Bay, Female

 

Not so complicated.

 

Edit: @Patch Linden

If applicable, you can use my examples for the FAQs, just in case permission is needed.

Edited by Silent Mistwalker
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