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New Gacha Policy Discussion


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1 minute ago, So Whimsy said:

Send me a nudge in world, I can't find you in search!^^

You can't? Wow! Then it really does work. Thanks LL! lol

Here's a list of groups you can find me in if you are in them. I don't think any of them cost to join. Sorry. Not changing my status inworld just in case something goes wonky.

Virtual Impressions Retail    
*SOIR* Design Inc.    
[ EvelineInTheBox ]    
7 Deadly s[K]ins
Peqe    
*LORIEN*
.:[RatzCatz]:.
Baby Monkey Junkies    
.: KC :. Couture \ NEWS & UPDATES 
[ND] Nahlani Design 

 

If you don't wanna, that's cool. Some of those groups may not exist any more. This is an old RP account I rarely use other than for adjusting poses and such so it's not a big deal.

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12 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

But that is exactely the problem. In an international business endeavour as SL the many many definitions of gambling matter. ALL OF THEM – AT ONCE! Each and every jurisdiction's definition whereever you try to do business in.

Yes, to a degree.  The definition across the world does matter as that is what impacts the laws around said items.  

But it is really more the laws themselves that have been made and the ones that appear to be coming upon the horizon that matter to LL in this particular issue.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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1 hour ago, Alaintha Loring said:

I find this very disappointing! Regulatory Changes be damned.. I highly doubt it has anything to do with that.  I L♥VE Gachas!! I even have taken gf's to Epiphany!! I do not see any regulation that could possibly be the cause for ending gachas permanently :(

The creators and designers have made unique items for gachas. Why curtail their creativity. It simply doesn't make sense. very, very sad to see my favorite gacha shops having to end their gacha sales :(

I now wonder what else LL is going to be doing to ruin our fun... ????

Regulatory changes be damned? Yeah, by all means LL should ignore laws, that will end well. It has everything to do with exactly that. No one's creativity is being stifled. They can still magically sell their items like anyone else.

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3 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:
18 minutes ago, So Whimsy said:

Send me a nudge in world, I can't find you in search!^^

You can't? Wow!

Web Search is still hosed - many folks can't be found.  The only guaranteed way to find anyone or any specific place is to use the legacy search in Firestorm (maybe in other TPVs also).

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1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Web Search is still hosed - many folks can't be found.  The only guaranteed way to find anyone or any specific place is to use the legacy search in Firestorm (maybe in other TPVs also).

The group thing  works just as well for those who aren't on FS. And since I didn't know (and didn't even think) to ask what viewer they were on I went with the first idea that popped up. 😊

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Acquiring a LL home on Bellisseria is like playing the gacha too:

Commons : The landlocked homes that everyone abandons

Rares : The sweet waterfront properties with a clear horizon ahead

Ultra Rares : Those rarest of homes on small private islands, 99.999% chance you'll never land one.

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2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Web Search is still hosed - many folks can't be found.  The only guaranteed way to find anyone or any specific place is to use the legacy search in Firestorm (maybe in other TPVs also).

(Off Topic)  Ya, I can only view my main account in Firestorm, websearch never works.

(On Topic)  I am wondering what Patch's responses will be now.  While some of us, myself included, have been a bit too emotional in our replies and comments...  To soon know more clearly what will be affected and the changes coming more clearly, would be a wonderful thing to know at least a couple of weeks before the 31st.

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24 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Resellers?  Sorry, but making money (if you did make any) off the hard work of others is over.

To be fair to the resellers, they're paying for the items just like any other customers. And they do provide the service of making some items available to people who otherwise wouldn't go near a gacha machine (at the expense of filling up the Marketplace with the Unicorn Puke variations of items no one wants).

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They're hoping to spend the money saved on litigation concerning gachas to hire more engineers and fix the search issue.  Or to hell with it!  Let's fight a losing battle in the courts for no apparent reason.

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14 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

You can't? Wow! Then it really does work. Thanks LL! lol

Here's a list of groups you can find me in if you are in them. I don't think any of them cost to join. Sorry. Not changing my status inworld just in case something goes wonky.

Virtual Impressions Retail    
*SOIR* Design Inc.    
[ EvelineInTheBox ]    
7 Deadly s[K]ins
Peqe    
*LORIEN*
.:[RatzCatz]:.
Baby Monkey Junkies    
.: KC :. Couture \ NEWS & UPDATES 
[ND] Nahlani Design 

 

If you don't wanna, that's cool. Some of those groups may not exist any more. This is an old RP account I rarely use other than for adjusting poses and such so it's not a big deal.

Isn't 7 Deadly s[K]ins pay to join? I believe it's free on special occassions.

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5 minutes ago, Komarimono said:

I am wondering what Patch's responses will be now. 

Yeah, given that it has been almost 2 days since the last update, I'm kinda expecting something soon™ *.

By the same token, I've never had an experience with a lawyer researching stuff that was ever fast.

 

 

* Now<----Kaplan Very Soon----Soonerino----Very Soon----Soon----Very Soon-ish----Soon-ish----Soonish...er---->End of Time

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Just now, Dorientje Woller said:

Isn't 7 Deadly s[K]ins pay to join? I believe it's free on special occassions.

I did say I don't THINK any of them are. It's been years since I joined them and have had no reason to look if they do charge.

If any of them are pay to join then the only reason I'm still in the group is because of the amount I had to pay to join. It's been long enough now I probably should log in this account and leave that group since I don't really care for their skins.

Thanks for reminding me! lol

😊

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Just now, LittleMe Jewell said:

Yeah, given that it has been almost 2 days since the last update, I'm kinda expecting something soon™ *.

By the same token, I've never had an experience with a lawyer researching stuff that was ever fast.

 

 

* Now<----Kaplan Very Soon----Soonerino----Very Soon----Soon----Very Soon-ish----Soon-ish----Soonish...er---->End of Time

Lawyer wise?   Depends...  This is probably something expensive and time consuming though.  I know my attorney had to dig into some weird research when it came to DCMA against me, but I won in the end so was worth the wait.  God forbid what poor LL and their lawyers are going through right now.

I sympathize for them, I really do.  It's not a easy thing to research and not easy to see how their user base acts I am sure.

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20 minutes ago, Sinvares Tenk said:

Well lets just put it this way then, your donating to that vendor and in return your getting a random Free gift you can continue to donate to that vendor and continue to recieve a random Free gift. Now its no longer considered gambling. Now you can resale that FREE gift on the market to recieve some money back.

 

Problem solved. (drops Mic)

The fact that you can resale that "free" gift to receive some money back (linden dollars which can be converted to real money and cashed out) is an aspect that some jurisdictions are looking at in order to determine if loot boxes should come under their gambling laws.  According to the chart in the article https://www.natlawreview.com/article/legality-loot-boxes-primer showing some of the positions taken in the EU, in France, loot boxes only come under the gambling law when the player has the possibility to sell in real currency the prizes won in the form of virtual objects or game levels.  

Granted, a gacha machine is not exactly the same as a loot box in a standard video game, but there are aspects that could be considered similar, and law often seems to be about the nuances of something being like something else - often worked out in courts of law, with results then becoming precedents for future  similar cases.  Regulations also are not static forever - as new situations or circumstances arise,  they can be amended or modified to either include some new situation or to include some new situation. 

 

 

Many jurisdictions (countries or states/provinces) have separate regulations for various types of in-person gambling, for various types of online gambling and different regulations for online skill gaming.  I'm not too sure about whether trying to "shoe-horn" the gacha experience into a skill game (as some others have mentioned in previous posts) would be a workable idea or not.  LL has a comprehensive policy and set of requirements around skill gaming so that they are in compliance with applicable U.S. and international law.   It would seem to me that a skill game which would hand out an item (rather than linden dollars) would still need to follow the regulations and certifications that existing skill games are required to follow.  It would limit where these gacha prize skill games could be located and would limit who could access those areas.  It also involves applications being submitted by the game creator and by game operators.  Even if LL modified the policy to allow skill games that give out an item, it seems like a lot of extra work just to try to 'retain' the 'game/fun' aspect of gachas. 

I would rather see the creators simply put the items for sale in their stores, at a price that the creator feels is the right price-point for the item, and/or create fatpacks to sell what would have been an entire gacha collection (at the price the creator feels is right for their work). 

No matter what happens to replace gachas, resellers can continue to resell gacha items that they currently have, and with all the gacha sales going on right now, they have an opportunity to pick up additional inventory at a reduced price, to extend the length of time they can resell gacha items.

 

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8 minutes ago, Mr Amore said:

Acquiring a LL home on Bellisseria is like playing the gacha too:

Because you can't resell a house on Bellessaria, it's not considered "gambling" in jurisdictions that regulate loot boxes. It's the "cashing out" feature of SL that makes gachas gambling.

 

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Hopefully the LInden's and their lawyers are really working out a survival plan for themselves and all of the members.   As far as the gachas are concerned good riddance.  However,  7Seas fishing is huge in Second Life and the issue is the transfer of Bait and other prizes.  If all prizes and things such as Bait must be set to No Transfer the game is going to be severly damaged.  Second LIfe was touted as a virtual world "Created by it's members".   So if the members can't choose to transfer their creations is that no longer true?   We have members who have created prizes and gifts that are set Transfer and they are no longer in Second Life.  We cherish having some of these in their memory.  And the memory of their creativity.   If we have to purge them why should any of us create anything?  I hope that Linden Labs and it's lawyers will very quickly explain these changes in better detail.  It looks as if this decision was made in haste and without studying the ramifications before announcing.   Please clarify soon. Thank you.

 

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3 minutes ago, Caleb Kit said:

Second LIfe was touted as a virtual world "Created by it's members".   So if the members can't choose to transfer their creations is that no longer true?   We have members who have created prizes and gifts that are set Transfer and they are no longer in Second Life.  We cherish having some of these in their memory.  And the memory of their creativity.   If we have to purge them why should any of us create anything? 

Outside of Gachas, since I have no clue on the numbers there, I'd be willing to bet that the majority of content in SL is No Transfer -- mostly because people want Copy items.

While Fishing may be huge in SL, I'd still bet that the prizes represent a very small minority of items in SL.

Thus, you can be sure that SL will surely not die, despite what the final fallout regarding the Fishing might be.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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1 hour ago, Sinvares Tenk said:

Given the fact id have to agree that gochas just are not gambling, Its what we call a great marketing oppurtunity, While you can resale them and possibly not of the same gatcha price you can safely say you will get something back in return.

<TRADE OFFER>

I get: Money.
You get: Random stuff I made which might be what you wanted... ot not.

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2 minutes ago, Caleb Kit said:

Second LIfe was touted as a virtual world "Created by it's members".   So if the members can't choose to transfer their creations is that no longer true?  

Please clarify soon.

let me point you to the first post in this thread, and click the link to the blogpost.

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6 minutes ago, animats said:

Because you can't resell a house on Bellessaria, it's not considered "gambling" in jurisdictions that regulate loot boxes. It's the "cashing out" feature of SL that makes gachas gambling.

 

Finally, someone who can put some rational to it. That only took 110 pages including several LL posts. 

Thank you Animats

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