New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Coffee Pancake]

There are lessons creators can learn from gachas going forward.

We like collecting junk.

We like trading junk.

We like a low cost to entry.

 

I propose the lucky vendor.

A simple, single product vendor. It contains all the items from a set, and periodically (not dependent on shoppers) switches the item being sold to a different one selected from the list randomly based on the same weighed chance gachas used (Say, every 4 hours). The item remains up for the set period of time before switching out to a new one. Every item is the same price. Shoppers are limited to how many copies of the item they can purchase in any one session.

Because this isn't a game, it's just artificial scarcity, it doesn't fall victim to any of the outlawed gacha mechanics and products could remain transfer enabling the secondary market.

Keeping an eye on vendors, checking back regularly, visiting "lucky events" more than once, pile ons when the rare appears, all the crazy fun stuff that drives engagement.

[hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian]

5 hours ago, AriaMoonlit said:

[...] now people will be forced to buy an item they see  clearly , only to make the next item available for purchase. [...]

No they won't. They have a choice. If they want to, they can just walk away and come back later to see if the item they want is the current one. Kinda like checking a lucky chair to see if your letter is now showing. (That's in the stores... at events, I would imagine the queue would move quite briskly. In fact, as has been pointed in the thread by several people,  events could become a clusterf.... quite quickly.... But that's another issue.)

I'd be interested to know whether the new system will have a periodic built in reshuffling of the queue, though, and at what interval. Otherwise, it's bound to get stuck on some items, which is good for neither the seller or the buyer.

[Alwin Alcott]

3 hours ago, Dratzo said:

Gacha ban is great work always disliked paying tons of L$ for stuff i didnt whant and had no idea what to do with it, Paying for what you like and sure to get it is lot better! bye bye gacha and stay away!

@Linden LabBut how about breedables with breedables you also dont know what you get those things are random and basicly walking gacha vendors even worse the foods are very expencive in a way banning breedables would have bin the correct start or both gacha and the breedables.... eitherway breedables worse invention in SL ever! take close look into breedables so i suggest.

please read the posts about this..( in short and skipping some details) You DON"T buy the offspring, you buy the PARENTS, and those need to be recognisable in the matter of what you buy. And if you sell the offspring it also needs to be recognisable what you sell.
Random box selling is not allowed.

[hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

There are lessons creators can learn from gachas going forward.

We like collecting junk.

We like trading junk.

We like a low cost to entry.

 

I propose the lucky vendor.

A simple, single product vendor. It contains all the items from a set, and periodically (not dependent on shoppers) switches the item being sold to a different one selected from the list randomly based on the same weighed chance gachas used (Say, every 4 hours). The item remains up for the set period of time before switching out to a new one. Every item is the same price. Shoppers are limited to how many copies of the item they can purchase in any one session.

Because this isn't a game, it's just artificial scarcity, it doesn't fall victim to any of the outlawed gacha mechanics and products could remain transfer enabling the secondary market.

Keeping an eye on vendors, checking back regularly, visiting "lucky events" more than once, pile ons when the rare appears, all the crazy fun stuff that drives engagement.

And I'd add: prices not to be more than - say - 10L or 20L or something equally low, to minimise losses to the buyer. How's that?

 

[Alwin Alcott]

2 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Linden staff might want to bring that to the legal team and shouldn't be approved.

it already is publicly approved. ... adding "shouldn't" doesn't matter when also is said more posts won't be read.

[Komarimono]

2 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

A little update --- the person came in to service our Lotto machine and VLTs and I showed him the print out and explained SL to him too. He has seen that type of mechanism before and is considered a gambling device since the next items up is random and maybe cause a player to keep feeding it to get the item they want. He said it's also possible the programming could make certain numbers on it could appear seldomly. The guy is from Saskatchewan Liquor and Gaming Authority (aka SLGA).

Linden staff might want to bring that to the legal team and shouldn't be approved.

I had a similar experience, but I'm not sure if the gambling aspect is why LL is removing current form Gachas.

We don't know why LL has moved forwards with the removal of them, what law if any has led them in that direction.  Someone in this thread kept spamming it with Laws this, and Laws that and I simply had to ignore their posts since was mostly spam and off-topic, since going forwards, we don't know the reason why until LL themselves comes out to say why other then their legal team recommended it.

What we do know is that yes Gacha was considering gambling, and legally the current proposed Conveyor is.  Pretty much anyone who has been to Vegas in the past 6 months, has seen the new Slot Machines where on the screen, the Jackpot bonus Image ya need to match changes randomly, but it does show what the Jackpot Bonus image is you need to match up.

What we don't know is what exactly LL has been told to change and why, but even if conveyor is approved, we must respect it for now.  LL's platform, LL's rules.  We'll just speak with our money as always.

[cutencuddlybreedables]

On 8/4/2021 at 10:25 AM, CelestineDemetria said:

Yes, most starter packs/ LE Packs are No-Trans.

It's the randomization of what's in the packs that's in question. Some of the packs even state on the outside they are Randomized. So, it's a chance based outcome resulting from a payment. 

EX:  You buy a pack it's 2 females and you need a male and female to breed. So you as a purchaser need to pay and play again at a game of chance. That maybe, the next time you pay you will get the male and female you need. When in actuality you will probably get more females and need to buy more sets to get what you are intending to buy. It's similar to Gacha mechanism granted it's not called a gacha you are paying & playing the initial purchase from the creator the same way. 

You as a purchaser don't know what you are getting till after purchase. So, a chance based outcome resulting from a payment.

As a breedable creator [who bred many other types of animals before creating my own] I have to correct you here.

90% of breedables starters AND LE's are transferable. Many people will pre-buy LE's etc and hold them for ages then sell them for a profit. its a common $ making technique. That happens in almost every breedable.

We are pleased that LL has said we are uneffected at this time with the gacha ruling, however we do have some concerns about Starter Animals as they do have random coats, eyes, ears etc - but we are working on implementing a system that will remove that from initial starters to ensure we are compliant.

It is still a big shake up - maybe it was needed, maybe not. but regardless I just wanted to ensure that you had the correct information.

[Prokofy Neva]

11 hours ago, Irina Forwzy said:

As I said I'm progressive, doesn't mean that I in all areas though.  I have democratic socialistic ideas in most areas but in some I think they overdo it. The same with other areas.  One doesn't necessarily need to believe everything in a political party, or in a political establishment.  That type of mentality is what creates polarity in political establishments.

That being said, I'm seeing both sides.  I see the gacha creator,  I'm seeing the gacha buyer. And the same mechanism that corporations, companies can be bad comes from the philosophy that they are comprised of said invidiuals that tend to have centralized viewpoints.  In the event of a gacha creator, they are seeing the maximum profit,  and it may be their RL livelihood.  For items they can more than likely sell for X10 the gacha value, but then no one would buy them outright.  Then there's those that abuse the gacha system because they create gachas with 100 pieces, that cannot be used individually or just are plainly mesh from other 3rd party websites.

I get the gacha buyer,  you have a 2k budget but you pass it. But here's the thing,  If I want to control the gacha seller, I must also ask the gacha buyer to also control their own instincts. Both parties are to blame.  Had gacha buyers not bought the gachas, then the need for gacha events throughout the grid would have gone down. But people went for them and flocked for them like bees on a flower.

My take:  They need to sell their gachas at reasonal prices.  Small gachas 500l - 750l. Break the market, so that sellers need to align to their cost or less to compete.  Those of us that played gachas and were reselling due to inventory, will understand. Those that played gacha as a business, will go out of business. Those,  they should have NEVER existed.  Those falsely drove up the gacha demand.

As for the creators that do that, that's probably because you will see an alt of them sell their gacha items as "no copy", "transfer" at markup value to do their sales. Those are the creators by the way, that were also driving up the cost of gacha and were not here for creative, nor for financial independence. Just to acquire maximum profit from us. Shame.

 

I have never heard of a single gatcha machine that has 100 pieces or even 100 and most do not have 25 even. Some have only 6; seems most have no more than 12. I also note that the top gatcha creators don't use mesh models, they make their own mesh. That's why they are valued. The top events sometimes have rules that you can't be admitted if you use mesh models or full perm models made by other creators but have to have all unique creations. That seems unnecessarily snobbish to me but I imagine the event organizers are driven by a need to avoid consumer complaints about violation of an individual model creator's TOS or the LL TOS. I don't know what you mean by the point "cannot be used individually". Gatchas have to be on transfer; it's the rare creator who violates this rule that is set down not only by event organizers but demanded by consumers. So every gatcha has use to be resold. Do you mean the creation of some piece of an outfit that by itself without the rest of the outfit is useless? Like an arm brace or an outfit top without a bottom? Again, I don't think there are that many of such gatchas that vex end-users, especially because they can go on the MP and buy those odd pieces.

Your socialist demand for a "reasonable" price isn't one that I can endorse in a free market. What I *can* endorse is for *event organizers* to set an upper limit of pull prices overall, as I did in symbolic calls to boycott one big event, because they were beginning to be resented by consumers who couldn't afford them, and cut into the market for items priced reasonable sold on non-transfer from stores. I think price-lowering can be driven by masses of consumers refusing to buy $100 gatchas, not by brow-beating creators to drop their prices. If somebody has a very intricate music box that they spent hours making and scripting and they feel $100 is justified for their gatcha, that's the kind of thing I think would have been better off sold in their store, and on no-copy or possibly even on copy.

Nobody paid the slightest attention to my call except the organizers who banned me, although many, many consumers have grumbled a great deal of how the spirit of gatcha changed to drive up prices from the 25 and 50 level to 75 and 100. (You could also complain about how the spirit of certain events meant to be cheap and on sale in the double digits escalated to the triple and quadruple digits, undermining the original point). I think it's more than fine if a range and variety of prices and quality develop in a market. I personally am going to match the middlebrow and even lowbrow taste of my tenants by buying at weekend sales and even humble sculpty and prim creators whom I still admire especially in the fantasy theme. That's to keep down my costs but also because I think creativity can shine in any element and doesn't have to be mesh or top quality mesh.

I don't want the SL economy to become a Ren Faire where only the most skilled artisans get to sell and everyone else is a peasant and barred from economic activity, forced to passively consume. I don't want it to be a communist commune where only freebies are blessed as virtuous or everything has to be low-cost which then comes to mean shoddy. I think diversity and freedom help SL's economy thrive and it simply must have ways for people to enter the economy other than by sex work or heavy manual work.

The further farmization of SL with breedables is going to be sad to watch and laggy, too.

As for this:

My take:  They need to sell their gachas at reasonal prices.  Small gachas 500l - 750l. Break the market, so that sellers need to align to their cost or less to compete.  Those of us that played gachas and were reselling due to inventory, will understand. Those that played gacha as a business, will go out of business. Those,  they should have NEVER existed.  Those falsely drove up the gacha demand.

Watch actual creators are doing right now, as they don't heed calls for socialism or RenFaire-ism! They are announcing that they are pricing their new editions like old gatchas -- 75L for "commons" on transfer -- these will be like cheaper, smaller items or in limited supply -- or $400 or $500 for "rares" -- more complex or larger or more valued items. They will roughly match then the valuation of gatchas on the Marketplace, not in the machines. That seems eminently reasonable to me. So let's say there is a collection of animals. The commons in their different colours or with their different funny hats or props will go for 75L, but the lion in the crown who may be on animesh even will go for $500. They will be on transfer so that people can re-sell them. They now won't have extras or a rare landfall in order to be motivated to sell. They will be more motivated to sell to make a living or offset SL costs. We can't know yet how much the market will glut with these; how much the new product market will replace old gatchas, it's too early to tell. But I applaud them for keeping the spirit of transferability or affordability for the resale market alive.

I can NEVER endorse an idea that those who played gatcha as a business should "never" have been in such a business, let alone made a RL income from it. You simply cannot pick and choose if you want a free economy. There are few that had the resources and stamina to get any significant yield out of this hard-scrabble business but one of the most fascinating pieces to this story for me is that two friends I had who were in this high-end resale business, putting together and selling especially retired sets for 50,000L got out of this business months ago and one essentially left SL for another platform.

Why? Because the gatcha business has been dwindling, with quality lessoning, the number of items proliferating as more and more people needed income in the pandemic. The era of the great "story" gatcha keys with elaborate designs that themselves told a fantasy story of some kind is long over. The Golden Age of heroes declined and the Iron Age of mass reproduction ensued, with a zillion little hamsters in different colours or a zillion little cages with candles in them in different colours or mugs and pillows. The creation of mugs, pillows, candles in cages and especially balloons are always a sign of deep creator fatigue and exhaustion of creativity. Maybe that's part of the reason why the Lindens decided to step in now with this devastating policy -- it will hurt less than it would have two years ago.

By "story" I mean the era where you could collect a set and be Grandma in her old house with her knitted and home-cooked items all around you, or a Story-Teller, or a witch with an elaborate outfit and spell book and spell-casting wands, or dwell among mermaid dog princes (?!) or have an entire post-apocalypse crumbling stone house with everything from a satellite on the roof to chickens in the yard to old console games or a finely-crafted old past century building with intricate gardens or the props of an asylum, which I will use in a re-creation of Nabokov's "A Visit to a Museum". I've been collecting notes of the these "greats" in the last year and the gatchas themselves, which are retired in some cases, like the "Noah's Art Spice Rack" to try to understand WHY they declined. I would sometimes ask their makers especially if they ceased the gatcha business completely. They were part of a trend that brought the best creativity that SL had to offer. Why did they stop?

Sometimes the answer I got was that they got tired of irate consumers complaining how they didn't get the rare after 50 plays, betraying themselves as products of the American education system with poor math skills. Sometimes I got the impression the makers hated that some re-sellers made more than they did and they lost control of the sale of their own products but that was not common as most gatcha makers made a lot of money from them. Lack of understanding of "first sale" doctrine and RenFaire-ism is at fault here. I also suspect that old gatcha sets reflected a given creator's past sculpty or even mesh first attempts and they didn't like seeing that out in their store now that their mesh skills were better, they wanted their wares to show them at their best. I think we will never know now that they are outlawed anyway.

I can't get on the moralistic camp meeting bandwagon here that condemns people who wish to make a maximum profit. That's because a lot of them are poor people in poor countries, Russian designers or Spanish designers who, if they relied on Shutterstock, for example, or Upwork would see a huge chunk of their profits get gouged out by the platform providers. Let them get whatever they can wrest out of this sinking boat.

I had never really contemplated the notion that some gatcha re-sellers are the creators themselves, selling an endless supply of their own rares. Is that really common? I don't see that it is? Why would they need to engage in such shifty behaviour that might get caught out, as alts often give themselves away? Why, when the sales of their gatchas were plenty and even helped them make a living?

I have often chatted with the people selling expensive rares and they really seem like different people with different speech and behaviour patterns than the creators of those admired gatchas whom I also know. There's only one seller on the MP whom I suspect is a sophisticated copybotter because of the regularity of which they can obtain and flip expensive and retired rares but most honourable ones whose stores I have visited don't offer those rares or valued commons with any regularity enough to suspect them of copybotting. I actually think most people are honest and decent, precisely because they come out of the Calvinist and socialist and Buddhist traditions that prevailed in their countries' histories. This is based on my vast experience of my tenants, most of whom pay on time, don't overprim, don't harass their neighbours, and don't grief. SL is a world of snarling, bare-teeth suspiciousness and hatred especially on the forums based on the experience of the few on incidents that aren't the norm, an impression that proliferates in a world with no free press or independent judiciary. Inworld, my groups are open and build is left on most parcels because again, most people are decent and law-abiding. 

[AriaMoonlit]

50 minutes ago, hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian said:

No they won't. They have a choice. If they want to, they can just walk away and come back later to see if the item they want is the current one. Kinda like checking a lucky chair to see if your letter is now showing. (That's in the stores... at events, I would imagine the queue would move quite briskly. In fact, as has been pointed in the thread by several people,  events could become a clusterf.... quite quickly.... But that's another issue.)

I'd be interested to know whether the new system will have a periodic built in reshuffling of the queue, though, and at what interval. Otherwise, it's bound to get stuck on some items, which is good for neither the seller or the buyer.

Yes it seems I originally said all that in my previous posts. that's the problem it will get stuck if it's a common that no one wants. Especially if they're trying to get the rare. And being around the machine to snipe at the rare last second. I also mentioned events and such would be a mess too , since it's buying till you reach the rare you see coming down the path, there will be more than one person playing at a time, and with lag, full sims - (and things not working even with the friends only option clicked ) I repeat , there will be chaos. And sims crashing. Getting around the ban is a mess.

[Prokofy Neva]

15 minutes ago, AriaMoonlit said:

Yes it seems I originally said all that in my previous posts. that's the problem it will get stuck if it's a common that no one wants. Especially if they're trying to get the rare. And being around the machine to snipe at the rare last second. I also mentioned events and such would be a mess too , since it's buying till you reach the rare you see coming down the path, there will be more than one person playing at a time, and with lag, full sims - (and things not working even with the friends only option clicked ) I repeat , there will be chaos. And sims crashing. Getting around the ban is a mess.

That's why I think the new "conveyor" vendor will not benefit events because there will be more people waiting in line, staying longer, on laggier sims, and more of a demand for cam sims to be put out, which is limited to the sides of a sim, and which gets expensive. So that means having to rent sims for longer periods for events, I don't see how they will make this work, too many costs.

They are much better for individual stores, and smaller, permanent malls, and that's a good thing in my view as it drives traffic back to those original creators and their associations rather than just benefits middlemen.

[hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian]

10 minutes ago, AriaMoonlit said:

[...]  Getting around the ban is a mess.

That's not a bad thing, I think. For me as a buyer, it's much nicer to be able to buy the item I want without faffing about with random outcomes. I do think it could have been achieved by mandating that anything that could be bought from a gacha should also be on sale in the regular way (at a reasonable price - and I'm aware that "reasonable" is a subjective term). Seems to me that would please both the set of people who enjoy the gambling aspect and those who don't, but, eh, I don't make the rules.

[AriaMoonlit]

49 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

That's why I think the new "conveyor" vendor will not benefit events because there will be more people waiting in line, staying longer, on laggier sims, and more of a demand for cam sims to be put out, which is limited to the sides of a sim, and which gets expensive. So that means having to rent sims for longer periods for events, I don't see how they will make this work, too many costs.

They are much better for individual stores, and smaller, permanent malls, and that's a good thing in my view as it drives traffic back to those original creators and their associations rather than just benefits middlemen.

This won't stop origin stores/malls from getting full or crashing but I do see the benefits of removing a middle man. I've heard event fees for sellers to be PRETTY high just for the chance to sell something. I guess an event fee is the price for exposure.( It's better +sidenote +that sellers put DEMOS in their shops so events aren't full of people going in to only try on a demo after hours of trying to get in.  yes there are stores that still don't put DEMOS out during events , in this way they will get traffic when people come to try on the item they won't have to do it while at the event...)

[Cackle Amore]

5 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

A little update --- the person came in to service our Lotto machine and VLTs and I showed him the print out and explained SL to him too. He has seen that type of mechanism before and is considered a gambling device since the next items up is random and maybe cause a player to keep feeding it to get the item they want. He said it's also possible the programming could make certain numbers on it could appear seldomly. The guy is from Saskatchewan Liquor and Gaming Authority (aka SLGA).

Linden staff might want to bring that to the legal team and shouldn't be approved.

Honestly that how I felt about it too.

Sure the item your directly paying for might not be random, but people aren't gonna care about the current item, they're going to be gambling for the next item. All it does is just shift the pay for chance to betting on what the next item will be.

It's still manipulating the exact same brain ticks.

 

Personally, if I was to try and reinvent the gacha, I'd just have it cycle through items on it's own timer, somewhere around the range of 1-5 minutes depending on if it's in a normal store or at an event.  It doesn't change until it's timer counts down, and anybody can buy into it's current available item, that way it takes away the player influence, and just becomes a matter of a time sink instead of a money sink.

One downside though is it might cause an issue of camping

[Marianne Little]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

That's why I think the new "conveyor" vendor will not benefit events because there will be more people waiting in line, staying longer, on laggier sims, and more of a demand for cam sims to be put out, which is limited to the sides of a sim, and which gets expensive. So that means having to rent sims for longer periods for events, I don't see how they will make this work, too many costs.

They are much better for individual stores, and smaller, permanent malls, and that's a good thing in my view as it drives traffic back to those original creators and their associations rather than just benefits middlemen.

When people manage to get in the event, they will not teleport out because they can not get in again. So they will wait for the items to appear in the conveyor machine(s). Some will pay to speed up the rotation, others will wait to try and swipe up the good ones. It will be screams and accusations when some lost "their" item.

If the events can register who stand around and not buy, and eject them, it will be the rule of "Buy something you do not want, or be ejected". How will that be seen in legal terms?

The one or two most popular vendors will block entry to the event and stop sales for all others, who have paid the same for their booth. This will not end well.

I hope - with childish glee - that this actually happens, so the conveyor events will die after massive drama.

Before, in the gacha events, people stood there and played until they ran out of money, or they got what they wanted. Then they left. And made room for others. And they spent money the whole time they were there, they did not stand around idly and waited.

Conveyor machines spread out in stores will work better, but there will also people hang around, teleport in and out to check if the item they want is up. But will it be more income of it? And eject people who do not buy anything... that will make customers happy, right? "I was waiting for the vendors to load, and then you a**hole eject me?"

[Darius Vayandar]

On 8/2/2021 at 12:33 PM, Teresa Firelight said:

Did the higher powers somehow decide that gachas are too much like gambling? is that the reason behind this?

Its a chanced based mechanic that involves spending money for a chance at getting anything, literally the same thing as a slot machine, you put money in you get a prize, might not be the one you want but that's what you got. Anyone who claims this isn't gambling is just trying to make excuses, or trying to call them 'surprise mechanics'

I also wanna point out to people that Gachas are a recent thing, SL economy was perfectly fine and frankly better before and it will be fine after.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Darius Vayandar

[Mollymews]

1 hour ago, Cackle Amore said:

Personally, if I was to try and reinvent the gacha, I'd just have it cycle through items on it's own timer, somewhere around the range of 1-5 minutes depending on if it's in a normal store or at an event.  It doesn't change until it's timer counts down, and anybody can buy into it's current available item, that way it takes away the player influence, and just becomes a matter of a time sink instead of a money sink.

One downside though is it might cause an issue of camping

yes it will I think. People waiting round for the item they want to appear. Which some shops will be happy to do I think

is kinda inverse camping. The camper person rewards the shopkeeper in L$ as opposed to traditional camping where the shopkeeper rewarded the camper

[Sukubia Scarmon]

7 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

A little update --- the person came in to service our Lotto machine and VLTs and I showed him the print out and explained SL to him too. He has seen that type of mechanism before and is considered a gambling device since the next items up is random and maybe cause a player to keep feeding it to get the item they want. He said it's also possible the programming could make certain numbers on it could appear seldomly. The guy is from Saskatchewan Liquor and Gaming Authority (aka SLGA).

Linden staff might want to bring that to the legal team and shouldn't be approved.

Makes me so angry.
It's clearly still a gacha, and yet it got greenlit, and worse, we'Re forbidden from calling it what it is - why? So it doesn't catch the eyes of whomever makes the laws? If it quacks like a duck, I'll not call it a dog.
Extremely dissapointed they just want to do the barest of minimums and even then they fail because, well, still gacha.

[Cackle Amore]

8 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

yes it will I think. People waiting round for the item they want to appear. Which some shops will be happy to do I think

is kinda inverse camping. The camper person rewards the shopkeeper in L$ as opposed to traditional camping where the shopkeeper rewarded the camper

Yeah, in a way it'd be more  like an evolution of the old lucky chairs, just minus the letter part.

 

To add to the idea, to help give that little rush people like for rares, the timer could be shorter when those pop up, maybe anywhere from 25-50% shorter than the normal time

Edited August 8, 2021 by Cackle Amore

[Mollymews]

47 minutes ago, Cackle Amore said:

Yeah, in a way it'd be more  like an evolution of the old lucky chairs, just minus the letter part.

adding on to this. I think a pay-to-play chair (items randomised like a conveyor belt) would work quite well

right-click and Sit the chair. Then you get say 30 seconds to pay for the item(s). If you don't pay in the time allowed for each item (as they are conveyed) then it unsits you and anyone else can sit

i think Sit is better than Touch to lock the machine to a player.  It will make it easier for everyone when the venue is busy. Nobody else will bother trying to Sit on the chair when some one else is already

it also solves the sniping problem

edit add:

would also solve the problem of fish having to be No-Transfer. Instead of selling fishing rods and bait. Sell fishing chairs. Rods and bait free. When you catch a fish, pay up or get kicked off the chair

Edited August 8, 2021 by Mollymews

[Stella Davros]

13 hours ago, Irina Forwzy said:

Perfect coding world. I know how some coders work however. I expect lag issues and glitches.   More than likely with the first few machines and events. I do see a refinement eventually though.

But this machine will be used only into stores and not in a events as the creator said into his post on flickr....for the event they still working on it...personally i suggested to use an hud combine with this machine like this everybody can play at same time 

[Mollymews]

2 hours ago, Cackle Amore said:

 

 

Personally, if I was to try and reinvent the gacha, I'd just have it cycle through items on it's own timer, somewhere around the range of 1-5 minutes depending on if it's in a normal store or at an event.  It doesn't change until it's timer counts down, and anybody can buy into it's current available item, that way it takes away the player influence, and just becomes a matter of a time sink instead of a money sink.

One downside though is it might cause an issue of camping

more conversation about how a not-a-gacha machine in name only could be done

31 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

yes it will I think. People waiting round for the item they want to appear. Which some shops will be happy to do I think

is kinda inverse camping. The camper person rewards the shopkeeper in L$ as opposed to traditional camping where the shopkeeper rewarded the camper

 

24 minutes ago, Cackle Amore said:

Yeah, in a way it'd be more  like an evolution of the old lucky chairs, just minus the letter part.

 

To add to the idea, to help give that little rush people like for rares, the timer could be shorter when those pop up, maybe anywhere from 25-50% shorter than the normal time

 

8 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

adding on to this. I think a pay-to-play chair (items randomised like a conveyor belt) would work quite well

right-click and Sit the chair. Then you get say 30 seconds to pay for the item(s). If you don't pay in the time allowed for each item (as they are conveyed) then it unsits you and anyone else can sit

i think Sit is better than Touch to lock the machine to a player.  It will make it easier for everyone when the venue is busy. Nobody else will bother trying to Sit on the chair when some one else is already

it also solves the sniping problem

addendum

would also solve the problem of fish having to be No-Transfer. Instead of selling fishing rods and bait. Sell fishing chairs. Rods and bait free. When you catch a fish, pay up or get kicked off the chair

[Stella Davros]

4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

That's why I think the new "conveyor" vendor will not benefit events because there will be more people waiting in line, staying longer, on laggier sims, and more of a demand for cam sims to be put out, which is limited to the sides of a sim, and which gets expensive. So that means having to rent sims for longer periods for events, I don't see how they will make this work, too many costs.

They are much better for individual stores, and smaller, permanent malls, and that's a good thing in my view as it drives traffic back to those original creators and their associations rather than just benefits middlemen.

The creators of this machine clearly said that is fitte for stores and not for events, for me at events they have to use one hud combine with this machine where everybody can play at same time like this 

https://www.google.com/search?q=ppcket+gacha+hud&source=lmns&tbm=vid&bih=717&biw=384&client=ms-android-samsung-gn-rev1&prmd=ivn&hl=it&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKrpntqKHyAhXGNOwKHd07DEcQ_AUoAnoECAAQBQ#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:df103155,vid:6YFJPQI9k68,st:0

[Pixels Sideways]

On 8/3/2021 at 11:56 PM, Gwin LeShelle said:

 

I do agree that law is law, but this would be uncalled cruel.

Let's think of stores like Amitomo (one of my favest btw) that 99 percent gacha and many other creators, that make a living off SL.

 

 

 

Anyone who depends on SL to "make a living" is foolish at best.

LL created a platform and a currency for people to play with.  LL is not obligated to be the sole foundation for anyone who chooses to engage in commerce in SL in order to "make a living."

Making money in SL is encouraged because it feeds the LL beast that keeps the game engine running and generates profits for LL.  There is a cyclic dependency in that but LL holds all the cards and those who engage in commerce in SL to make money do not.

LL could fold up shop tomorrow and nothing would happen to them as they are undoubtedly indemnified six ways from Sunday legally. And for those who have invested significantly and built a business on a house of cards, they will be left with nothing and no legal recourse.  It's in the TOS which no one reads because why be bothered with that knowledge.

Creating a dependence on income derived in SL is a huge gamble with significant risks because you have zero control over the decisions the company you are floating your business on makes.

 

[Maryanne Solo]

[Rei Waifu]

44 minutes ago, Pixels Sideways said:

Anyone who depends on SL to "make a living" is foolish at best.

LL created a platform and a currency for people to play with.  LL is not obligated to be the sole foundation for anyone who chooses to engage in commerce in SL in order to "make a living."

SL isn't going to last forever either, in fact with the creaky old engine we're plodding along with at the moment, i'd give it another five years before it either breaks or they need to make major upgrades and changes.

People need to have a contingency plan for finances that doesn't rely on second life, and especially shady practices like gacha and other gambling systems