Blush Bravin Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Just now, Deathly Fright said: that's what I have been saying.. no money must be used, but can be. hell, there are other freebie schemes in SL that drive traffic that can be combined with a conveyor to allow for both winning for free and buying It's the can be that crosses the line. A person spending money to buy something on the conveyer to advance the conveyer hoping that the rare will come up is gambling. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
So Whimsy Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Just now, Deathly Fright said: no... money...needs...to..be...spent...to...get...the...rare. and Silent talked about my reading comprehension Considering there is plenty of people (myself included) questioning your idea, it points to you not having thought it through fully/the idea being against policy/you not comprehending the folly in it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Just now, So Whimsy said: Considering there is plenty of people (myself included) questioning your idea, it points to you not having thought it through fully/the idea being against policy/you not comprehending the folly in it. Doesn't matter. When LL tells her no then she will comprehend. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucia Nightfire Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 12 hours ago, Cayenne Republic said: Nadi making test vendors while everyone else is gnashing teeth. ♥ (and those dragons are awesome!) And those test vendors have not been cleared by LL. Just because they preview what you're buying, if they randomize the offered content on a timer or after purchase, that does not mean LL can't say that they still perpetuate the gacha mechanic in whole. Then what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Hexem Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Blush Bravin said: It's the can be that crosses the line. A person spending money to buy something on the conveyer to advance the conveyer hoping that the rare will come up is gambling. Laid out like that yeah, but it's not a gamble with the product they're purchasing like the new policy explicitly states. The conveyor just shows people new products they can choose to buy if they like and they know full well which product they get when they buy it, according to the letter of the new policy they're just spending money to manipulate the vending machine which is just incidental. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathly Fright Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said: Doesn't matter. When LL tells her no then she will comprehend. then they tell me that it's not allowed 🤷♀️. I have no interest in selling or buying gatchas. I'm worried it's going to push makers away from SL 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmi Zehetbauer Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: It's the can be that crosses the line. A person spending money to buy something on the conveyer to advance the conveyer hoping that the rare will come up is gambling. Time to nip the conveyors in the bud. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Viche Hexem said: Laid out like that yeah, but it's not a gamble with the product they're purchasing like the new policy explicitly states. The conveyor just shows people new products they can choose to buy if they like and they know full well which product they get when they buy it, according to the letter of the new policy they're just spending money to manipulate the vending machine which is just incidental. Breaking the spirit of the law while straining at the boundaries is still legally unsound. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 19 minutes ago, Deathly Fright said: from my point of view it's you not understand what I'm saying, let me do a long post to spell out what I'm talking about in SL there are chairs that are made in a way that people can get something for free if they sit in it if their name starts with a specific letter. this letter rotates over time. they are sometimes called lucky letter chairs or lucky name chairs. there are other types of things that sell you an item that then changes the item that's for sale randomly after the person buys the listed item. this is called a conveyor. the are items that are less likely to be listed those items are called rares. in my proposal, the two ideas are fused. so there is a chair that will give people a free item to a name that starts with a certain letter in the chair, but they can also buy a listed item that is randomly generated instead. anybody with the lucky letter of the moment can sit and get any of the items listed that are in the conveyor if their name starts with the lucky letter. the odds of getting the rare are the same (or maybe more likely for paying people) if you sit or if you buy. there are many variations on this, but the base idea is the same. as there is a chance of somebody getting it for free, the rare item can be had without paying. Sorry. I'm not into playing mind games. I like my lucky chairs just fine the way they are, thank you. I don't buy no copy/no mod either. I create and I really don't care about making money from it. I care that I touch someone in a good way and it leaves a lasting impression on them for the rest of their life, through my creations. Among the Navajo there is a saying. "Walk in beauty." That is what I devote my life to. https://talking-feather.com/home/walk-in-beauty-prayer-from-navajo-blessing/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinos Field Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Your daily reminder that the blog post defines gachas as "a chance-based outcome as a result of a payment." which the conveyor fits to the very letter. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Hexem Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Just now, Blush Bravin said: Breaking the spirit of the law while straining at the boundaries is still legally unsound. Maybe it is, maybe that'll apply to the super unfair fishing machine I thought up too, but it's not been directly addressed and this is the thread in which we find loopholes like that and aknowledge them. I think conveyors will remain legal but it's less about what I think and more about the possibilities of what people might do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skell Dagger Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Deathly Fright said: no... money...needs...to..be...spent...to...get...the...rare....just...luck and Silent talked about my reading comprehension This thread - though full of more 'what if's and 'how about's than I think I've ever seen in my entire 14 years in SL - is about gacha being banned in Second Life. Gacha being defined - as per the original blog post by Linden Lab - as 'a chance-based outcome as a result of a payment'. The fact that we have tens of people muddying the waters with non-relevant so-called 'comparisons' is probably giving the moderators absolute bloody conniptions as they try to sort out the wheat from the chaff here. Why did you even bring up lucky chairs that are free to play and result in a chance of getting a preferred item or not, as a comparison with gachas that are pay to play with a chance of getting a preferred item or not? What was the point of dragging that into this thread? ETA: Incidentally, my reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. When you have multiple people who are apparently 'misunderstanding' all of your messages, perhaps you need to take a closer look at those messages. Edited August 4, 2021 by Skell Dagger 5 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathgrith027 Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Deathly Fright said: then they tell me that it's not allowed 🤷♀️. I have no interest in selling or buying gatchas. I'm worried it's going to push makers away from SL At worst it'll push away the people who decided that basing their entire business schema on this one, legally and morally dubious distribution scheme, and even then, they were setting themselves up for eventual failure when this would inevitably come down on their heads. And even then, it wouldn't take much to just start selling their products in a conventional format. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Burleigh Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Deathly Fright said: then they tell me that it's not allowed 🤷♀️. I have no interest in selling or buying gatchas. I'm worried it's going to push makers away from SL Hi, maker here. The end of gachas is not going to push me away from SL. 2 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, Deathly Fright said: there is nothing stopping anybody from putting a good item in them. and wouldn't doing that drive traffic higher then as there is a chance of people getting the rare? also, wouldn't that also drive people to buy into the conveyor to not have to wait? 99% of the merchants use gachas to increase their profit by a lot compared to more traditional ways of selling goods. They are not interested in more waiting persons in their shop, store or event. And they certainly are not looking to give away their items for free. They don't produce gachas for the joy of playing a game but to maximize their profit. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 21 minutes ago, Viche Hexem said: The mere prescense of chance in the mechanics of something is not grounds for it to be banned. Lucky chairs operate on the chance of someone's name being called but at no point do they spend money. The rules as spelled out by patch state the issue is when someone exchanges linden for a product they must know exactly what they are getting but in that sense it is limited to the actual exchange, at least on the surface. If you are putting Ls into a lucky chair to get something based on a letter of the name.... you aren't using lucky chairs, you are using gacha type chairs. Pay to play and random chance is what does it. Lucky chairs are not pay to play. Gachas are. Lucky chairs that are pay to play are gachas. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komarimono Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, Deathly Fright said: then they tell me that it's not allowed 🤷♀️. I have no interest in selling or buying gatchas. I'm worried it's going to push makers away from SL Makers come and go all the time. If their only way to stay active in the Market of Second Life is through gambling means, then now is the time for them to go. Change happens, there's nothing that can be done about it, especially in this case where it's for Legal Reasons. If they can't adapt with the change? Then maybe it is time to step down from being a creator. When I could no longer handle my own store with skins and shapes, I stepped down and made an account strictly just for social interaction and fun. I adapted, even if my store is now lost to the ages. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, Deathly Fright said: I'm worried it's going to push makers away from SL Like all other changes in SL that have happened over the years, the creators adapt or they don't. Not much different than when laws change in RL and companies must adapt or get out of their business. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 23 minutes ago, So Whimsy said: I'm just hoping for Hextraordinary doing a gacha sale. I want all the jumping spiders. ALL OF THEM. Everybody loves Lucas! Shoot. If there were legal Lucas's on the grid I'd be sorely tempted... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TessaPaige Jupiter Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Hi my Avatar is Tessa and she is a Gacha Addict who turned that addiction into a decent SL business that funded her need to pull and paid her rent on her little island home and stores. Prior to her introduction into Gachas back in January 2020 she loved to decorate and create public spaces for people to enjoy (for free) but felt limited by the designers she was able to find through SL search. Gacha events introduced her to a whole slew of designers she never heard of before. The shiny new things they stuffed inside the machines piqued her interest in finding more designers and sampling their wares. She is saddened by the news that she will no longer be able to click the virtual machines again to get a prize. That being said, we need to be a little more sensitive to the designers whose businesses were primarily Gachas. They will be losing a huge revenue stream. Whether you love or hate Gachas this is going to be a big hurdle for people in the Gacha community to jump. I know of one designer who is going out of business and closing shop and there might be more making those announcements soon too. Farewell ye ole’ virtual machine Tessa is gonna miss you. ☹ 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
So Whimsy Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said: Everybody loves Lucas! Shoot. If there were legal Lucas's on the grid I'd be sorely tempted... Check out hextra's animesh jumping spiders. I have some already, they're absolutely amazing! I wish I could have one in RL but with three cats on the prowl it wouldn't end pretty x3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwin LeShelle Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Just now, LittleMe Jewell said: Like all other changes in SL that have happened over the years, the creators adapt or they don't. Not much different than when laws change in RL and companies must adapt or get out of their business. THIS! We in SL are a loud whiny bunch of people and every change is a huge hoppla in the community, but in the end the sky never falls down and we are pretty awesome in adapting! Creators like shoppers will also adapt to this and I am sure at the end, everyone will be happy and some store owners make more money and some shoppers will now shop at stores they avoided before because they only offered gacha. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finite Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: 99% of the merchants use gachas to increase their profit by a lot compared to more traditional ways of selling goods. They are not interested in more waiting persons in their shop, store or event. And they certainly are not looking to give away their items for free. They don't produce gachas for the joy of playing a game but to maximize their profit. I must have been really lucky then only finding the 1% of vendors who do this sort of thing on the side for the enjoyment of it and it's not really a main source of their personal income or anything. I am sure there are greedy vendors out there but most of the ones I've felt were greedy don't do GACHA. 99% really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Hexem Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said: This thread - though full of more 'what if's and 'how about's than I think I've ever seen in my entire 14 years in SL - is about gacha being banned in Second Life. Gacha being defined - as per the original blog post by Linden Lab - as 'a chance-based outcome as a result of a payment'. The fact that we have tens of people muddying the waters with non-relevant so-called 'comparisons' is probably giving the moderators absolute bloody conniptions as they try to sort out the wheat from the chaff here. Why did you even bring up lucky chairs that are free to play and result in a chance of getting a preferred item or not, as a comparison with gachas that are pay to play with a chance of getting a preferred item or not? What was the point of dragging that into this thread? While I can't say I'm too big a fan of getting adveserial about the discussion, credit where it's due you're correct about the blog post and it does cover "a chance based outcome". This means that the conveyor idea appears to be out of the window for now as a stand alone entity, the cycling of products in the conveyor is chance based and an outcome of payment: it is therefor not allowed. That being said the blogpost also has some other information and I'm reposting it here because it contains some stuff I either forgot was there or was added recently: Quote We have developed an FAQ to assist with answering some of the most common questions we are being asked. This list is not exhaustive, and we will continue working to get answers and add them here. Q: Is it possible to extend the policy deadline? A: We are sorry that we are not able to further extend the policy deadline. However, we have been able to extend the enforcement of the policy change an additional 30 days. To be clear, starting on September 1 we expect gacha as a sales mechanism to cease. However we will start with warnings, and any enforcement of the policy as it would be applied on an account will not begin until after September 30. Q: How are breedables impacted by this policy change? A: This current policy change and deadline does not apply to breedables or other life simulation products. At the present we are working with external counsel on the subject of breedables. If any action is required we will make a separate announcement and have a separate timeline associated with it. Q: Will popular games like 7seas be impacted by this policy change? A: No, because the purchase of bait to go “fishing” is a purchase being made of a known item, and also the fish you catch while playing the game are non-transferable. To be clear, if they are not currently, they must be going forward. Q: How are subscription boxes affected? A: Subscription boxes are not affected as long as all subscribers are getting the same content box. Different items being sent to different subscribers on a chance basis is not allowed. Q: How are Linden Homes affected? A: Linden Homes are not impacted by this policy change. Linden Lab owns the homes and they are not transferable. There are still several great questions which we are working to answer with our legal team. We will update with additional information as soon as possible. Apparently this policy change "does not apply to breedables" even though breedables do contain gacha like probablity stuff, this means within the systems which breedables use may lie the basis for whatever replaces gacha. The same goes for the comments on 7seas, such as the extremely unfair fishing vending machine scenario. IDK why they brought up linden homes lol, but it's funny to see it there, maybe I missed something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwin LeShelle Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Just now, Silent Mistwalker said: Everybody loves Lucas! Shoot. If there were legal Lucas's on the grid I'd be sorely tempted... Random but..I just 3D printed one the other days because our son wanted to paint a figure one for his room! ^ ^ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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