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SL is too deep rooted to reinvent itself especially now we're in an age where people expect to be able to consume content on a mobile app. 

The PC market continues to decline and even laptops are becoming less common in the consumer market. Yet for me, SL doesn't run very well on a year old laptop designed for gaming.

I think the next best thing (and most practical) would be for SL to be web browser based and do much of the rendering on their servers. They could then stream content to users to their device(s) via a web browser. (whether it be their PC, laptop, TV, tablet or even their foldable smart phone) Given most people have faster internet connections capable of streaming, this is technically feasible and is something Microsoft is now doing with their Xbox Cloud Gaming service. This essentially means you can play games even on hardware not designed for gaming while still getting decent graphics and performance. 

While this approach certainly wouldn't reinvent SL, I think it would give it a new lease of life by making it more accessible to new and existing users. - As long as you have a half decent internet connection. Let's face it, you still need that for SL even now.

Of course, that's not to say they couldn't also keep it open to those who want to continue to use an installed viewer and thus make use of their own hardware.

LL need to realise that most of their target audience are not buying gaming specced PCs or laptops and with this in mind they really need to think about how they're going to cater for these people. This idea would certainly help do just that. 

 

Edited by Exavor Diesel
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We need to take back the throne as the metaverse from VRChat. That means we all have an obligation and a duty to defenestrate the people who endlessly council us to be mundane and irrelevant. We must follow our true destinies to become the preeminent virtual people of the Internet because we were here first, but too many hidebound thinkers have dug in and they impair our journey along this path to the stars. We don't need to "do anything" about these ideas other then politely thank them and promise them that SL will only get more powerful, not less. Like Blender. People who aren't on new desktop GPUs needn't apply because a battery isn't going to take them where we're going. 

Edited by Chroma Starlight
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1 hour ago, Exavor Diesel said:

I think the next best thing (and most practical) would be for SL to be web browser based and do much of the rendering on their servers.

It's a good idea, but the cost of doing that is high.

None of the big-name players, like NVidia and Google, seem to support SL. Because LL would have to make a deal with them.

There are several services where you rent a remote gamer PC by the hour and can upload your own software, so you can install a SL viewer yourself. There are several services like that. Paperspace, LoudCloud, Shadow, etc. Cost varies, but seems to be around $1/hr. If you use one, create a throwaway alt with a unique password. Best not to trust those services too much.

This is not a good way to onboard new users. You get to start with an empty virtual machine and configure it. But it's something experienced users might want to have available. If LL did a deal with NVidia or Stadia, so the LL viewer was available from the "load game" menu, this would be a viable option.

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Do we have an assumption that successful virtual realities need to have super realistic avatar rendering to be popular? I have some expensive avatars in Second Life, but in Minecraft I am happy with the Steve-skin. 

In Minecraft dressing is easy, but in SL it can take hours to match outfits with bodies, and the forums are full of newbies asking questions like "Why doesn't my new head fit my new body?"

Second Life has a lot to offer, but I believe we lose a lot of newcomers by making it so hard to put together a decent look. I won't even get into building....

discovery of mesa.jpg

Snapshot _ -Lost Lagoon- tweakedhttps___www.flickr.com_groups_4505438@.jpg

Edited by Rufferta
Trying to say it better.
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

It would depend I would think as to what could be done. If for instance LL grow their new mobile client to more than a text chat which I would hope they are thinking of, then they would likewise need to limit it as Apple do not allow adult content on their devices either.

Clearly you haven't looked at Roblox at all as, if you had you would stop saying it is only an FPS thing. You remember Second Life's old motto "your world, your imagination". It applies to Roblox as well.

Your book club that you say isn't in Roblox The Official Roblox Book Club - Roblox
Your education you say doesn't exist in Roblox Setting Up A Roblox Classroom
Oh hey look a concert held in Roblox by famous singers like Lady Gaga One World: Together At Home Virtual Concert - Roblox Blog
Cant ever recall Second Life making a deal with Sony Entertainment for Live concerts to be made in world. Here is the deal Roblox made Sony Music, Roblox Establish Partnership

Here is a link showing schools using Minecraft and Roblox for teaching and education during the pandemic... Notice how Second Life isn't mentioned at all Teachers Use Minecraft and Roblox to Educate Kids During Coronavirus Pandemic - Bloomberg

As for your dating thing it also takes place in Roblox. There are numerous hangout worlds and what not.

You need to get past the "Roblox is a game for kids and only shooters and made of blocks" and start to realise the world is treating it like SL back in 2006 where even mega corps like Sony Entertainment are doing things in there that Second Life would only dream of seeing again. Roblox has evolved well beyond what you and others seem to think it is (was).

:EDIT:

As to your video comparison of sl and Roblox, Roblox has far superior graphics to sl and is not blocky at all. Some people just build there world in that style in Roblox similar to how some people build cartoony style in sl. That sl video also has so much lag that even the camera fly through was lagging. Shows just how subpar sl is to modern creation platforms. Also Roblox has stated that realistic avatars will be coming and in concerts has even provided realistic avatars to music artists.

0.7 and 0.28 in the Roblox vid you posted and other times show graphic on par if not better than sl and not blocky at all as they are created mesh made in programs outside of Roblox and imported just like sl. So once again you have no clue what you are talking about.

I'm familiar with your need to be contrarian about Roblox and you're not saying anything new. How many educators are in Roblox? Universities with permanent presences? Hundreds, as in SL? Can you point to an article in the Chronicle of Higher Education about the use of Roblox? Ok, then, let's not be children.

I didn't even address concerts, as I think that's not an indicator of anything anywhere. Concerts are in RL or are streaming with chat on YouTube and trying to wedge them into virtual worlds isn't really a proposition. That's an area where Facebook or Microsoft will eventually excel technically. But...how many concerts did you go to in RL or virtual life last year? Ok, then, let's not be children, it's not the use case. BTW I probably heard more live music in SL than RL in recent years, barring the pandemic, because what SL does excel at is live music for small coffee house sort of venues where 20 or 40 people as in a RL small bar or club have a rewarding relationship with a singer. But the Foo Fighters, whose live-streamed concert I did pay for during the pandemic, will never be in SL, Roblox or anything like that.

No doubt there are hook-ups and even marriages in Roblox. But the demographics is mainly kids and families. Is there a blocky Roblox sex bed I haven't heard of with 199 positions? OK, then, let's not be children.

I don't "need" to "get past" the "Roblox is for shooters and gamerz and kids with blocks" because....I can watch the company's own trailer, where they put their best foot forward and try to bring in more players, and see...yes, that's what it's about. There is nothing wrong with that. Millions more people will follow that and not SL. That doesn't mean it is "the future of the Metaverse" or superior to SL in experience.

"Blocky" is a word you use not to describe graphics, but, well, blocks. Square edges. Wooden, square heads. Is there a Lelutka head or Slink body shop in Roblox? Or any shops? Does it have a robust inworld economy and not the informal economy that springs up around any game even those that don't allow it. OK, then, let's not be children. Or, be children, if you like, I don't need to argue this. Others can try to persuade you once again that your contrarian ramming at LL and SL is neither persuasive to them or anyone else. 

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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42 minutes ago, Rufferta said:

"Blox" vs "Uncanny Valley"

Do we have an assumption that successful virtual realities need to have realistic rendering to be popular? I have the-best-avatar-I-can-afford in Second Life, but I am equally happy playing Minecraft just being Steve. I can also remember when some computer games were text only.

discovery of mesa.jpg

Snapshot _ -Lost Lagoon- tweakedhttps___www.flickr.com_groups_4505438@.jpg

I can be happy for hours building in FreeSO where the people are nicer and you can actually have more traffic on your venue easily than in SL simply because it's a smaller world with a directory that helps you find locations in ways SL doesn't. That doesn't mean that I pretend that FreeSo is the future of the Metaverse and somehow "better" than a world with enormous variation of user content and an inworld economy. That's what the conversation is about. 

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6 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Odd. I and others have for years being saying LL need to create a new default body so that the onboarding experience is better and easier. You on the other hand have been saying for equally as long (just like LL) that this wasn't necessary and would be bad for LL. Yet here we are LL now agreeing that is is an essential thing that needs updating for the onboarding experience.

So much for you saying that ideas that I and others have stated over and over LL now agree with.

Thankfully, Coffee has updated us on this and it seems once again LL disagree with you in that they are interested in getting them in.

I really need to try Catznip viewer, seems to be the more forward thinking viewer as opposed to others.

Still hilarious that you think that just because you claim it isn't a game it doesn't belong on consoles. If I recall you were also part of the bandwagon that said a mobile client wasn't needed. Thankfully LL think differently to you. Additionally Patch has stated that they have their developers looking at Roblox (a game) to see what learnings they can take from that to make SL better.

Also since you are oblivious to this, a person can search the internet on console, watch movies on console, listen to music on console, type a document on console, skype with someone on console. But sure keep believing consoles are only for games.

Linden Lab yearly income from recent leaks about $60 million-80 million.
Facebook income: $86 Billion
I somehow dont think Facebook will have a problem with massive scale.

Right, no one likes subscriptions...

Netflix: 203+ Million subscribers
Final Fantasy XIV game: 20million subscribers
World of Warcraft: approx. 115 million subscribers

During the Linden and Mole talks in SL18B, there was this one guy who kept telling us that he'd been in SL since 2003 and was practically a Linden, ok, not a Linden exactly but a contractor or some kind of super volunteer on the non-English language welcome areas and such, he went on and on complaining about engine this or graphics that or feature the other thing and periodically would dot his laments with the comment that, "No one would ever listen to me," and occasionally, "The board finally listened to me when they...." and "Now the Lindens recognize what I was telling them back in..."  It was hilarious to see how self-referential all this was. A Linden began quietly asking him some basic questions since he couldn't recall him, even being very old, and that was funny to watch as he sputtered. This kind of person is a type. A type that exists in all virtual worlds and exists because there will always be critics and impractical types who aren't dreamers or inventers but just cranks, that's their fun game.

The Lindens aren't "listening" to you or me or anyone else when they do this or that. Like the world isn't listening to me now that they criticize Silicon Valley tech way more, even in Congress. People come to self-evident conclusions or they do things they couldn't do back in the day for this or that practical reasons or because it wasn't a priority.

The Lindens didn't put in emojis yet. They may endlessly say they will to placate cranks who complain about this, or even put them in. That doesn't mean they are very important to most of their user base.

They may change the starter avatars, which have from time immemorial always been pretty bad. They are tolerable now, I use them on my alts without wincing. Even if they handed out $10,000 free mesh bodies and outfits at the start, it won't retain people significantly, as they need things to do, places to go, and people to see to stick in a virtual world and the Lindens can supply that better, but not ultimately 100% 24/7 in a user created world.

It doesn't matter what people can do on a console. I have children and have for years watched what they and others can do on their console like watch TVs or even do homework. That doesn't mean that it has escaped me what consoles are mainly for: first person shooter games. That's fine, it's just not for everyone, and not even those who love it, all the time. It's obvious what the use is; it's obvious you're edge-casing. Next?

Once again, fastening on the revenue of two completely different companies in scale doesn't capture the issue at all. Let's ask how much revenue Facebook enabled users TO MAKE FOR THEMSELVES. I don't mean an API engineer which is a tiny minority. I don't mean an employer contacts via Facebook and offers me a job. I mean using Facebook the platform itself, and monetarizing it within the platform, not by using its "fundraise on my birthday" feature or even ads for my business feature, but creating games, charging for pictures or views or having an interface option to pay for a group within the platform itself, not via the platform elsewhere. No, FB doesn't do that, like Instagram or any other big dog. SL does because it's 3D, not 2D, and an interactive contiguous virtual world with an economy. So its users, tiny in number compared to big platforms, made millions more than are possible to make elsewhere. Does Instagram have a feature where you can offer your pictures for sale on the platform and cash out? No. Apple charges 30%. What does Etsy even charge? SL has no parallel in letting their users use the platform to make money, even a living. That's what needs to be studied and grown, not the bigness of FB billions that go in the company's coffers.

 

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4 hours ago, Mr Amore said:

That Fantasy Faire video appeared to be stuttering from performance issues, but it's the interpolation from the camera's path. And that random observation aside...

I'm by no means lamenting the graphical superiority of Roblox over SL! It's not a game I'm interested in playing.

However, search for Roblox Studio on youtube for a look at their environment creation tools. That's something I would like for SL, or anything similar to it. Core (by Manticore) have developed a similar studio for their system.

 

These are aimed at games, but we could use them to create environments in SL too. The trouble with SL is, we tend to think of our builds as permanent spaces, when they could be temporary scenes-on-demand.

 

A look at Roblox Studio:

 

And a second link, laughably sponsored by GameMaker Studio.

The TLDR is, Roblox are gouging 75% from their game developers, who take home just 25% of their earnings. It is undeniably obscene.

 

An environmental studio that makes game landscape is not the same thing as inworld building tools or the ability to import and monetarize content on the platform itself in its own context. And there isn't a reason to pretend SL excels at this. Everything shown in the Roblox video making the landscape can be done in SL and done better and without skills, by buying pre-set models in the user economy. 

If Roblox takes 75% and not even just the 30% that Apple takes, then I don't know why we are even having this conversation. LL takes 10% on the Marketplace and nothing inworld.

I randomly took the Fantasy Faire videos because they are a concentrated effort to cover all the 21 sims in that short-lived even that is heavily laded with content and traffic. There are thousands of others that show of SL on YouTube where there isn't "stuttering". Even with it, you can see the environment is superior because you can really live in and also make money.

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6 hours ago, rasterscan said:

Wow. Looks like the latter is for 8 year olds and the former for 80 year olds :D

As a 65-year-old, I know where I stand. And perhaps your remark explains why most people aren't in virtual worlds, they don't go for them.

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Posted (edited)

I'm reading this very long article --research paper, really -- a 9-part primer on the Metaverse by Matthew Ball and only about 25% done as it is very boring and covers things I've heard said literally for 20 years and misses the most important issues, governance and the economy. But look at his credentials:

 Managing Partner of EpyllionCo, which operates a pre-seed and seed venture fund, as well as a corporate and venture advisory arm. He is also a Venture Partner at Makers Fund.  From 2016-2018, Matthew served as the global Head of Strategy for Amazon Studios, and prior to that was a Director at The Chernin Group's Otter Media, a digital media investment company founded by long-time Newscorp COO and 20th Century Fox CEO Peter Chernin. He holds bylines at New York Times, The Economist, Bloomberg, and more.

So I bother, because I figure he does know more than me -- yet I would stand up for my perspective, writing from the laundry room of the Flamingo Court/Motel of Last Resort where I just made a box of Niagara starch -- in which I think I and others in SL really do have virtual life credits he can't even imagine. I don't know how he can possibly have a whole section on "player economies" and not mention SL but ok, I need to keep reading.

But I think for example this SL YouTuber has more knowledge in her little finger about the Metaverse than this VC partner and even 100 scholars, and having Google news set to "virtual words" along with "Academia" I see hundreds of articles of this type mostly missing the point. People have to live in these worlds for them to work, they have to like them.

I'm not saying a 20-year-old college kid who likes to shop and socialize and date and have prim babies -- mesh babies? -- is somehow a genius about graphic performance and interoperability and all the other Metaversal preoccupations. But she does know more. She knows that the point of a virtual world isn't FPS games or car chases or building blocks for everybody but verisimilitude. That blockchain and asset management and bla bla are all important subjects but if you don't have the look, it won't work. She wants it to be real life, only better -- where you can control what happens unlike RL where you are at the mercy of fate. Therefore shopping and looks that are real; babies that are convincing, even if only 24 hours is required for a pregnancy. She interviews creators who make these items that aren't luxuries, they are expensive for old stipend curmudgeons like myself but many people are willing to spend $50 US on a look rather than in real life where it doesn't get them as much.

She focus on fun things like trips to the zoo or waterparks.

I don't mean to turn the laser hatred of the forums on her or make more of her youtubes than they are. I mention her just because she is one of legions of relatively modest subscribers among Youtubers (she has 13,800, certainly a huge amount for SL but not for Youtube) -- not in the news like this gamer girl and her hotties going around with an arch Valley Girl take on SL. She is way more sincere and therefore I watch her. And honestly, she does know more in her little finger than many, many people, including me. She picks out rentals from people who make a lot of money for rentals (and spend a lot of tier) because they bother doing what people want, not what they want, or maybe they are more like those people and making beach condos is more soul satisfying for them than for me. She even compares SL to Sims 4.

I'm baffled why Matthew Ball doesn't mention SL at every turn. Maybe LL has to somehow recruit him to a conversation given that he is out there writing 9 chapter primers on the Metaverse, a Metaverse that LL already built and which leaves him in the dust.

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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9 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I have plenty of fun in SL building and decorating and helping my tenants and running my business, a rough RL equivalent, if you will, with a high creative aspect. I can't possibly see "fun" as shooting endlessly at little stick figures on a screen, and myself getting shot at, as I stump past primitive snowscapes. I liked the Sims Online because while it was 2D and limited, it had rich social interactions and building creativity. Roblox arguably has more, but notice they don't show Roblox dolls having book clubs or dating or education, they only show FPS essentially. Real life is not FPS for the most part.

We know you don't like FPS shooty games.

However, making a fun and responsive shooty game comes with a laundry list of dependencies that can't be met by SL. You just can't make those games here in a way that is even remotely comparable. Those same dependencies also enable a huge range of other activities and gaming styles.

Being able to meet the requirements to make a competitive FPS game in SL would positively impact everything else we do and enable a whole lot more in the process. In the grand scheme of things, running about shooting each other is a platform milestone, nothing more.

Graphics and style are secondary, it's a mistake to look at roblox and get hung up on the lego people.

 

7 hours ago, Mr Amore said:

These are real issues in need of addressing among others. Growth will come from new residents entering the game, but in that first hour they need an incentive to stay and not be confounded by the disaster that is the V3 UI. When I first installed SL around 2006, it was a smooth experience with an intuitive UI.

As someone who spent most of her time helping newbies back when viewer 1 was the bee's knees, I have to disagree. It was just as baffling to new people then as it is now.

SL needs to tailor the experience to be more in line with the shared language common to all video games. It can then depend on new users already knowing those basic expected mechanics.

7 hours ago, Mr Amore said:

they just need to restore it to V1, back when it just worked.

It didn't just work .. maybe you took to it quickly and easily, but most didn't.

New users would rez up for the first time, and we would have to explain how to talk back to us, and then how to walk to one side so they weren't getting other new users rezzing on their heads.

It was a s-show.

7 hours ago, Mr Amore said:

SL's real advantage is the talent of its creators, Second Life's avatars are easily the most diverse of any game.

Really not .. see the community around unity or unreal.

They have a much bigger box of paints with far more scope then we could ever hope for.

 

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10 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Roblox is kicking ass.

That looks like awesome fun. 

Remember fun ?

Exactly. The Fantasy Faire video is B-O-R-I-N-G. It starts out with 2 1/2 minutes of a slow scrolling transcript of paragraph roleplay. Then there's a slow flythrough of a steampunk medieval build. At 5 FPS. At, for some reason, second floor level. But there's no sense of what you do there. Other than admire the architecture. The builder really likes flying buttresses, even where they don't belong.

Here's a more fun SL video, from Luca Grabacr.

 

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1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

We know you don't like FPS shooty games.

However, making a fun and responsive shooty game comes with a laundry list of dependencies that can't be met by SL. You just can't make those games here in a way that is even remotely comparable. Those same dependencies also enable a huge range of other activities and gaming styles.

Being able to meet the requirements to make a competitive FPS game in SL would positively impact everything else we do and enable a whole lot more in the process. In the grand scheme of things, running about shooting each other is a platform milestone, nothing more.

Graphics and style are secondary, it's a mistake to look at roblox and get hung up on the lego people.

 

As someone who spent most of her time helping newbies back when viewer 1 was the bee's knees, I have to disagree. It was just as baffling to new people then as it is now.

SL needs to tailor the experience to be more in line with the shared language common to all video games. It can then depend on new users already knowing those basic expected mechanics.

It didn't just work .. maybe you took to it quickly and easily, but most didn't.

New users would rez up for the first time, and we would have to explain how to talk back to us, and then how to walk to one side so they weren't getting other new users rezzing on their heads.

It was a s-show.

Really not .. see the community around unity or unreal.

They have a much bigger box of paints with far more scope then we could ever hope for.

 

We know you don't like FPS shooty games.

However, making a fun and responsive shooty game comes with a laundry list of dependencies that can't be met by SL. You just can't make those games here in a way that is even remotely comparable. Those same dependencies also enable a huge range of other activities and gaming styles.

Being able to meet the requirements to make a competitive FPS game in SL would positively impact everything else we do and enable a whole lot more in the process. In the grand scheme of things, running about shooting each other is a platform milestone, nothing more.

Graphics and style are secondary, it's a mistake to look at roblox and get hung up on the lego people.

 

It's not about me. It's about legions and legions of people who do not play war games and do not like them, and most of the population of SL, who do not play them and like them. The end.

If you can't make them here, go somewhere else -- please!

I don't want to hear an argument that says "Let's go to space, along the way we will make Tang and...let's see...what was that other thing". Tang has not made up for destruction of the ozone layer and billions spent that could have gone to better use on earth. The argument that "let us make tech, we'll do these exotic, expensive things and along the way we'll make better dishwashers" just can't be allowed to prevail any more in a world of worsening climate change and poverty in a pandemic.

The Lego people in Roblox are a turn-off and not because I'm hung up, but because they're for kids. And the company's trailer shows you that it is for mainly boys, mainly shooting, mainly chasing. Not for us.

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1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

SL needs to tailor the experience to be more in line with the shared language common to all video games. It can then depend on new users already knowing those basic expected mechanics.

That's worth some serious thought. More later.

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1 minute ago, Prokofy Neva said:

The Lego people in Roblox are a turn-off and not because I'm hung up, but because they're for kids. And the company's trailer shows you that it is for mainly boys, mainly shooting, mainly chasing. Not for us.

Roblox has more adult users than SL does. (It's in their S-1 filing with the SEC.)

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, animats said:

Exactly. The Fantasy Faire video is B-O-R-I-N-G. It starts out with 2 1/2 minutes of a slow scrolling transcript of paragraph roleplay. Then there's a slow flythrough of a steampunk medieval build. At 5 FPS. At, for some reason, second floor level. But there's no sense of what you do there. Other than admire the architecture. The builder really likes flying buttresses, even where they don't belong.

Here's a more fun SL video, from Luca Grabacr.

 

The Fantasy Faire videos show you what people build, which is fantastic, and what compels people, which is content and experiences. It's not expected to be captured in a video. But if you prefer capture fantasy to fairy castle fantasy, it won't be persuasive. I don't care. I took it as an example that drastically shows the difference between a moving bird in flight and a block boy stumping on his block legs. Difference.

Luca does very well in portraying SL and rhapsodizing about it, I don't know if she brings in more people. LL currently has a campaign -- annoyingly blistering our eyes on the splash page -- which is geared toward gamerz and the Dungeon and Dragons sort of fantasy crowd that differs from Fantasy Faire. So they will get more of the same, 9 out of 10 drop-outs. Most people are not among those characters shown on the LL video.

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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Just now, animats said:

Roblox has more adult users than SL does. (It's in their S-1 filing with the SEC.)

Because simple entertainment will always be capture more people. More people are on Facebook than on Roblox. Does that mean that somehow Roblox is worse than Facebook or less accessible? No, it's a themed kind of typical game with more to it in terms of building but still based on the basic Boy's Own approach to the world. Facebook is broader and enables more kinds of socializing and sharing even if has no 3D capacity now.

 It truly does not matter. The debate is not about graphic engines or numbers. It's about the nature of the Metaverse, what it will be, and who will determine it.

I personally don't think the Metaverse will turn out well if Roblox and Facebook run it and make it and trample all others. I think it would be a disaster. 

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9 minutes ago, animats said:

Exactly. The Fantasy Faire video is B-O-R-I-N-G. It starts out with 2 1/2 minutes of a slow scrolling transcript of paragraph roleplay. Then there's a slow flythrough of a steampunk medieval build. At 5 FPS. At, for some reason, second floor level. But there's no sense of what you do there. Other than admire the architecture. The builder really likes flying buttresses, even where they don't belong.

Here's a more fun SL video, from Luca Grabacr.

 

BTW half of this video is about war gaming and shooting -- driving a tank, shooting weapons, shooting off rockets, etc. And that is simply not appealing to most people. Most people. Most people in RL, and most people in SL. The other half of her video with creativity, socializing, exploring expresses what there is to do and is more appealing. But I'd have to say that this video doesn't express what there is to do, really. Making Princess Putin and blasting rockets is not for everybody. Sitting on a dock or flying over mountains is more appealing. So I think most people will be put off by this video, even though Luca has outlined a rich world. 

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5 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I'm familiar with your need to be contrarian about Roblox and you're not saying anything new. How many educators are in Roblox? Universities with permanent presences? Hundreds, as in SL? Can you point to an article in the Chronicle of Higher Education about the use of Roblox? Ok, then, let's not be children.

To be honest I cant be bothered as you just wont listen or change your mind. But here are a few: Delaware Valley University, College of Staten Island, Harford Community College, Randolph College etc.

5 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

But the Foo Fighters, whose live-streamed concert I did pay for during the pandemic, will never be in SL, Roblox or anything like that.

So professional multi-award winning singers will never be in Roblox or Fortnite or anything like that according to you...

I literally already gave you an example where Lady gaga did, but what about Lil Nas X, or Zara Larson? Those were all in Roblox and stated in the link I gave about Sony Entertainment which clearly you didn't read. Below is a link of his concert which was streamed in Roblox with his own Custom Avatar to over 33million people. I would like to see Second Life try and achieve that. Lil Nas X’s Roblox concert was attended 33 million times - The Verge

As for others how about Epic Games' Fortnite. They have had Dominic Fike, Travis Scott, Marshmello, Kaskade, Dominic Fike, Anderson .Paak and many many others.

I could go on. All these hugely popular Professional Singers that you have quite rightly said will never be in Second Life. Roblox and Fortnite however they have and are and do. Second Life cant even compete with this as the best they can achieve is 70 people in a region and cant stream over multiple regions the same thing over and over.

 

5 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

No doubt there are hook-ups and even marriages in Roblox. But the demographics is mainly kids and families. Is there a blocky Roblox sex bed I haven't heard of with 199 positions? OK, then, let's not be children.

Believe it or not most people dont want sex online. There is a reason why Second Life to this day still has a bad name with people saying "isn't that that game where you can have sex".

5 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

That doesn't mean it is "the future of the Metaverse" or superior to SL in experience.

Yet millions upon millions of people (and even LL) disagree with you. If LL are telling their staff to play Roblox to find out what they are doing for success as Patch has said, I would take that as Linden Lab are a little worried.

5 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Does it have a robust inworld economy and not the informal economy that springs up around any game even those that don't allow it.

Yes, it does in fact have an inworld economy. Robux is the currency and purchasing it with RL cash allows players to buy in-game items created by other people known as developers. These developers then earn that money of which can be transferred to RL cash. These items include avatar things (yes including bodies and heads, clothes, gestures, emotes etc), games, worlds; all the way down to a simple tree. Just like Second Life. You just cant seem to understand this no mater how many people tell you.

This article explains it and surprise surprise is talking about a creator economy system and like most articles Second Life who has a creator economy system is not even mentioned as a competitor. Roblox and the Creator Economy – Data Data Data (kylascanlon.com)

Edited by Drayke Newall
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8 hours ago, Exavor Diesel said:

I think the next best thing (and most practical) would be for SL to be web browser based and do much of the rendering on their servers. They could then stream content to users to their device(s) via a web browser.

This happened once with 'SL Go', but streaming games is still a niche experience. It won't become mainstream until the 2030s.

 

4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

An environmental studio that makes game landscape is not the same thing as inworld building tools or the ability to import and monetarize content on the platform itself in its own context. And there isn't a reason to pretend SL excels at this. Everything shown in the Roblox video making the landscape can be done in SL and done better and without skills, by buying pre-set models in the user economy. 

If Roblox takes 75% and not even just the 30% that Apple takes, then I don't know why we are even having this conversation. LL takes 10% on the Marketplace and nothing inworld.

I randomly took the Fantasy Faire videos because they are a concentrated effort to cover all the 21 sims in that short-lived even that is heavily laded with content and traffic. There are thousands of others that show of SL on YouTube where there isn't "stuttering". Even with it, you can see the environment is superior because you can really live in and also make money.

I liked landscaping in SL, there's a ridiculous amount of trees, rocks and animals in my inventory. When I was actively building it could takes weeks to complete a scene, but eventually they would be deleted to make space for another.

There are drastic considerations between building on the ground, or for a skybox. There's no SL water in the sky, your swimming AO and vehicles generally will not function for prim water. Then the terrain mesh may come with exotic physics models, and you are limited to those static shapes.

It's clearly not the same as demonstrated in Roblox Studio where they have natural terrain and water features for a skybox. And the asset browser, the background and environment settings are all a nice touch too. Yes, you can do this in SL, it's just more expensive, less intuitive and next to impossible to distribute as the scenes you make are generally no-transfer. 

So the question we arrive at is, how often have you messaged a friend and said, "I've just completed this scene, rez it on your land and see." Or how often have your friends sent you some fancy environmental creation of theirs? This generally isn't possible in SL, where we travel to one another's sims to see their builds - but - we cannot share them.

Every modern metaverse will capitalize on user creativity and encourage them to share(Free content!).

 

From SL, I've learned to script and mesh and it's nice to see them functioning inworld. And yes, SL touts itself as an Educator's world, but how active are those sims? Back in March I attended the 'Virtual Worlds Best Practices in Education' conference, videos of which are available at their youtube channel.

I only learned of the conference this year by someone posting in the wrong chatgroup. And the fact that many of their videos have less than 50 views is indicative of how well LL have promoted the event. I am not taking digs at LL here, but if you promote your platform as being a tool for educators you have some obligation to support them too.

 

For anyone interested, here's one of the streams from the event:

 

 

 

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It's not about being more like them, Evah, but giving creators more tools in SL and making it simpler to share content.

 

So far as virtual concerts go, this will be tough to beat:

 

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6 minutes ago, Mr Amore said:

It's not about being more like them, Evah, but giving creators more tools in SL and making it simpler to share content.

So far as virtual concerts go, this will be tough to beat:

 

Unfortunately @Mr Amore, there are the usual people in these forums that just don't get what we are talking about either because they dont understand or think SL is fine as it is without any progress or the ability to compete with other platforms. All they see in their mind is us saying "SL needs to be exactly like Roblox, Fortnite etc".

They just dont understand that that isn't what we are saying but instead are saying that Second Life needs to allow for better content creation to make it Grow and better communication tools etc. Like the video of Lil Nas X I posted and your one of Travis Scott. None of that content as far as scene, scripting, effects, etc is possible in Second Life.

These same people dont realise that those numerous concerts have earned billions of dollars for Roblox and Fortnite just from the advertising and people signing up to enjoy them and participate. The best advertising Linden Lab can achieve is a advert they filmed back in 2019 and just released that shows next to no reason to join Second Life.

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12 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

None of that content as far as scene, scripting, effects, etc is possible in Second Life.

I didn't see anything in there that wasn't broadly doable in SL. Obviously you can't 1:1 copy everything, but in broad strokes all of that looked doable in SL. What specific effect are you saying can't be replicated?

Edit: I meant the lil' nas X one. The Travis Scott has some stuff that actually has me quite curious.

Edited by Quistess Alpha
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