What if Second Life removed teleportation?

[Alma Palmira]

When SL started out there was no teleporting. It worked fine at a small scale, but as things grew it was decided that telehubs were needed. Telehubs allowed teleporting but only to restricted specific regional entry areas. It was kind of a hybrid approach. It facilitated learning the geographic intimacy of your surroundings with the expedience of getting there quick— kind of like train stations. Again as SL grew direct teleports became necessary. In my opinion direct teleports were a reaction to unexpected quick exponential growth. Linden labs used to take a very hands-on approach to mainland geography, coastlines, lakes, roads, railways, public space and private space. It still does to some extent, but it’s more (imho) directed to creative potential rather than boxed expectations. The exception to this are the ultra planned communities of linden homes.

i kind of miss the telehub days. You really got to organically “know” (explore)an area while still being able to teleport quickly from region to region. 

[Ayeleeon]

Someone probably mentioned this, but it would profoundly effect the way people interact with each other. Now you can boldly go into any social situation because if it goes south you can always TP out. Without that option it would be a very different SL

[Arielle Popstar]

Maybe they could tax teleports and promote the idea that it is a privilege, not a right. More people would start to take public transportation like pods and see the countryside and maybe even meet some new people.

[Ardy Lay]

Nope.  And hey, look at this:  No resident is forcing anybody to teleport.  If you want to go without a fundamantal function of Second Life, do it to yourself without promoting imposing that restriction on others.

[Silent Mistwalker]

 

2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Maybe they could tax teleports and promote the idea that it is a privilege, not a right. More people would start to take public transportation like pods and see the countryside and maybe even meet some new people.

 

On 7/20/2021 at 10:17 AM, Silent Mistwalker said:

I have been in SL long enough to remember when we didn't have point to point TPs. I really, really do not want to ever go back to that again. And the first person that mentions taxing TPs or prims or anything of the sort... 

 

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Maybe they could tax teleports and promote the idea that it is a privilege, not a right. More people would start to take public transportation like pods and see the countryside and maybe even meet some new people.

Linden Lab "We are going to charge a fee to instantly travel about SL at will. Yet we will freely let you travel the land, sea and air in vehicles driving up the impact on the servers and lag for free."

That make so much sense, I wonder why they haven't implemented it long before?

 

[Ardy Lay]

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

That make so much sense, I wonder why they haven't implemented it long before?

Because it would affect the teleport-around bots Linden Lab seems to love so much?

[Lindal Kidd]

I don't think everyone should jump on Bree for just proposing an idea; however, I agree with the majority that removing teleportation would be a seriously bad move. Even assuming all the private islands got moved and SL became one big physically connected world, physical travel across that world to get to a store or a venue or a friend's house on the other side would take way too long and probably be way too plagued with banlines, obstacles, and sim-crossing crashes.

SL is a big enough world that it needs some form of rapid transit.

[Marianne Little]

20 hours ago, Noelle Delaunay said:

I don't think it's fair to call "immersion" silly and putting it only in a context of merchants trying to sell you stuff. You do perceive a world in a completely different way when you have to travel long distances. I want to compare it to World of Warcraft where, in the beginnings, you could not fly and there were fewer teleports than today. The world was perceived as huge compared to today where the world is actually way, way bigger but you can reach every spot superfast. Today you will have lots of people crying when there is a new expansion and they cannot fly for the first few months. This is mostly due to the fact that it's not about the world anymore, not about experiencing the world anymore, but people are under a pressure, all of the time, to complete their missions in the fastest time possible in order to not fall behind. So in the end it's the point of view from where you're looking at it. I can see enough non silly reasons to increase immersion, while there, of course, are also enough arguments against it.

I am tempted to use the famous phrase "It's the economy, stupid". Linden lab would be no more if all the creators and stores disappeared.

As we have it today, we are free to teleport or to explore. Freedom. I used the sales event as an example of SL, but smaller.

Those who only want in there to buy a few things, use the direct teleport they see in blogs. Then they can teleport out and free up space for another shopper who want to walk around and be immersed, or just one person who is curious to see the decor. Instead, people were jammed in grey goo around the forced TP point. Those who did not have area search, or could not use it, was standing and wait for something to rez. Some was angry and started to shout that people should take off things like boots, hair, jewelry. Others started to wander around aimlessly.

Same is it in SL as a whole. Those who sail, sail. Or fly, or drive, et cetera. Those who teleport, teleport. Those who want to walk around in a beautiful region and admire it can do that. Without spending 5 hours driving there in their mesh car.

People like me want to choose. They do not want to have an option removed and be forced to do it only one way.

[Noelle Delaunay]

4 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

People like me want to choose. They do not want to have an option removed and be forced to do it only one way.

I'm not sure why you're quoting me in this as if I had something different. I explained why and when immersion is lost, and I made clear that many people will choose convenience over immersion.

[Maitimo]

On 7/22/2021 at 11:50 AM, Lewis Luminos said:

There are better ways to increase immersion without removing the ability to teleport.

For example, in order to teleport, you must have access to a teleport device or portal. You can get a private one one to put in your home, a public one to put in your store, or you can use other public ones. That still allows people to go where they want, but gives a real in-world reason for why teleporting is possible.

There would have to be a minimum of one public one in every region, Linden-owned so it can't be removed on the whim of the land-owner. 

Reminds me of the Stargate fad from several years ago. I still see the odd one here and there. I think they must be for decor only at this point.

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Maitimo said:

Reminds me of the Stargate fad from several years ago. I still see the odd one here and there. I think they must be for decor only at this point.

Some are still used as teleports. 

[Bree Giffen]

Hmmm. That’s a great idea. A little nexus in every region. 

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Bree Giffen said:

A little nexus in every region. 

I'm tellin' ya, this all will eventually converge on telehubs. 

It's pretty easy to imagine the Governor setting up a group of regions all with telehub routing, which would prevent point-to-point teleports into those regions.

I'm not sure, though, whether llTeleportAgentGlobalCoords() is telehub-restricted. (Probably, inasmuch as it can be overridden by parcel-level landing points.)

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

Hmmm. That’s a great idea. A little nexus in every region. 

Same thing as the old telehubs. No, I do not want them back. Need I remind you of the war over the wall in Jessie? LL has been down this road already. It didn't work then and isn't going to work now. Not with the mixed bag of residents there is.

LL has also already been down the taxation road. It didn't work then either and certainly will not work now with the economy in the toilet. It isn't going to get any better economy wise either. 

I give you full credit for trying but please, do the research before posting to be sure LL hasn't already done the same or similar in the past. Keep in mind SL has been open to the public for 18 years now. A lot has happened in the nearly 2 decades so chances are most of your ideas have either already been suggested (and shot down) or tried and failed. You'll save yourself a lot of hassle and heartache. 

[Qie Niangao]

And yet I could imagine a mini-continent, maybe the scale of Horizons, that used a telehub on each region as a way of promoting some sort of community experience. The telehub restriction on teleports wouldn't be enough all by itself, but it might be a useful feature that, with clever planning, an engaging theme, maybe a sharable activity (exploration? game? fetish? cult?) might make a successful combination. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

32 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

And yet I could imagine a mini-continent, maybe the scale of Horizons, that used a telehub on each region as a way of promoting some sort of community experience. The telehub restriction on teleports wouldn't be enough all by itself, but it might be a useful feature that, with clever planning, an engaging theme, maybe a sharable activity (exploration? game? fetish? cult?) might make a successful combination. 

How about a retirement community for us oldbies? 🤭

[Qie Niangao]

24 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

How about a retirement community for us oldbies? 🤭

Now that you mention it, why isn't there a gaming region for RFL Bingo?

[Da5id Weatherwax]

I would not support removing teleportation.

However the addition of a kind of "slow teleportation" might be interesting - fly or sail across the edge of an isolated sim into the void and you vanish. You can't see the sim you just left and folks there can't see you although the map tiles of live sims would show on your minimap which would lock to max zoom-out - you're in a private instance (a minimal simulation thread of open ocean is spawned for you to keep track of your movements and keep your aircraft/boat (if you have one and are not simply body-flying) running and behaving normally. This instance keeps track of how far you've gone and in what direction. There is a multiplication factor on your speed, although to your view you are still travelling at your normal rate. Encounter the boundary of a "live" sim and you are inserted into it at the nearest feasible point and the private instance shuts down. (handoff between these private "travelling instances" and sims would be more akin to a tp-with-your-vehicle than a sim crossing) Go beyond the "map bounding box" (smallest rectangle that contains all live sims) and you loop back to the opposite side with your vector intact. Exit your vehicle or TP and it is returned to your inventory and the private instance shuts down. Encounter a region you can't enter and you sail/fly through it like it wasn't there.

"Void navigation" would be a skill SL pilots and sailors would learn and long-distance race events would be likely decided by who was the better navigator and held closest to the shortest-time course....

[Cinos Field]

I obviously wouldn't support it either but the idea is dangerously appealing.

Imagine having to actually take a vehicle to fly to a different to visit your neighbours? It'd encourage actually spending time in places, exploring locally and being more social. It sounds downright awesome.

Plus it'd foster the creation of communities where people live next to each other around themed places that suit their interests, which also sounds great!

But I know from experience that I'd absolute hate it in a week, tops.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Cinos Field

[Lindal Kidd]

Hey, here's MY idea of something to remove: Let's get rid of the Marketplace!

True, it's hugely convenient, but it's also been a major cause of stores leaving the grid, which in turn results in regions going away and the world shrinking.

Or maybe we could keep the MP, but charge merchants enough that having an in world store is competitive, cost-wise. Or make the MP a search engine only; you'd have to teleport to the seller's in-world store to actually buy the item.

(...jumps into her Grid Crash Protection Box and triple locks the lid against the mobs of pitchfork-wielding merchants about to come her way)

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Or make the MP a search engine only; you'd have to teleport to the seller's in-world store to actually buy the item.

That is how I use the MP most of the time. As a catalog and then head to the store to see the actual item. So I'd be up for that. lol

I wish more clothing stores used mannequins. They wouldn't even all need to be full body mannikins.  I mean, they've been in the Sims games since Sims 2 so there's no reason someone can't create low poly meshes for the same purpose for SL.

 

[MoiraKathleen]

41 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

That is how I use the MP most of the time. As a catalog and then head to the store to see the actual item. So I'd be up for that. lol

I do the same thing when I'm looking for something I haven't already found a source for in-world.  I like seeing home and garden items in person, plus I like it that the creator sees SL as a place to be and exist, and not just as an online place for making money.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

6 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Hey, here's MY idea of something to remove: Let's get rid of the Marketplace!

True, it's hugely convenient, but it's also been a major cause of stores leaving the grid, which in turn results in regions going away and the world shrinking.

Or maybe we could keep the MP, but charge merchants enough that having an in world store is competitive, cost-wise. Or make the MP a search engine only; you'd have to teleport to the seller's in-world store to actually buy the item.

(...jumps into her Grid Crash Protection Box and triple locks the lid against the mobs of pitchfork-wielding merchants about to come her way)

 I would go for that if they gave us the ability to either link our own vendors to the MP or released their own to use.